You think Bowser will be competitively banned?

[Hong]

Bowser match-ups... basically look like a brawler/grappler match-up in any fighting game.

The Bowser player will have to weather the storm. Deal with not only incessant projectile spam, but since he is so big and heavy he is a prime target for combos as well. But after he gets an opening? He blows them up.

And that's 100% okay. That's how it's supposed to work.

Fighting Bowser should feel like fighting a boss... not a free gimp. Fighting as Bowser is still going to require an immense amount of patience, with times where the situation will only seem to be getting worse before they get any better.

 

[FlynnCL]

People who talk about how OP or broken Bowser is bother me, because did these same people see the tournament? If you're the type to constantly fall for Bowser Bomb, charged f-smashes and never adapting to getting shield grabbed then sure, Bowser is too much for you, but that isn't his fault; that's yours.

Bowser isn't a fighter you just go aggressive against, you have to play a patient game and adapt against his weaknesses. I think he'll be very comparable to Melee Ganondorf; he has decent speed in some attacks, a lot of cool-down, good edge-guarding and hits like a brick to the face. Ganondorf messes you up if you autopilot, but if you decide to really think about his options and respect exactly what he's doing, he becomes predictable; you know he only has a small amount of decent approach options.

Bowser seems to have auto-cancelled back-air, forward air (which lag heavily if not done correctly), he also has Whirling Fortress out-of-shield and his jab, and all those options are very easy to see coming and you'll end up getting very used to them (Bowser can't short-hop fast fall with an aerial without stupid lag, so if he throws out back-air and he misses, he's stuck falling for quite a few frames). In all, Bowser is a punisher, with only a tiny few fast options while the rest of his moveset is slower, but kills early.

 

[Vann Accessible]

Bowser's undoubtedly stronger, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

We have no idea how the meta will develop.

 

[Ragna22]

I assure you the reason Bowser did so well is because his opponents had to adjust to fighting a new Bowser, this is far from Melee Bowser and Brawl Bowser, yeah he'll still probably be high tier if nothing changes between the demo and the full game but even if he does stay the same people will eventually find strategies to counter Bowser

 

[Hidden Pixl]

Bowser was op at Comic-Con

 

[Hong]

There is a thread discussing the SDCC, as well as threads to discuss the state of Bowser's balance.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think it would be awesome if Bowser was banned.
Then add Ridley and K Rool. Ban them both. Mewtwo too.
Ban all the villains.

That seems really fitting. OP them all!

 

[kylexv]

Bowser's looking good, but definitely not OP at all.

Although I liked to play as him, he wasn't that good. Finally, he's getting a buff and may be my main

 

[Spinosaurus]

Remember when people called Sentinel out for being OP as **** and god tier in MvC3 when it came out?

Then it turned out he was like high tier at best and got nerfed because of that in UMvC3, and now the only thing he's good for is as an assist.

Basically, too early, ffs.

 

[kylexv]

Remember when people called Sentinel out for being OP as **** and god tier in MvC3 when it came out?

Then it turned out he was like high tier at best and got nerfed because of that in UMvC3, and now the only thing he's good for is as an assist.

Basically, too early, ffs.

They likely assumed so because Sentinel was God Tier in MvC2

That's like saying Meta Knight will be broken again in Smash 4.

 

[Spinosaurus]

They likely assumed so because Sentinel was God Tier in MvC2

That's like saying Meta Knight will be broken again in Smash 4.

There's actually other numerous example. I remember Hulk, but he didn't last as long as Sentinel.

I'll admit though, that mentality was largely thanks to MvC2.

 

[HeavyLobster]

People who talk about how OP or broken Bowser is bother me, because did these same people see the tournament? If you're the type to constantly fall for Bowser Bomb, charged f-smashes and never adapting to getting shield grabbed then sure, Bowser is too much for you, but that isn't his fault; that's yours.

Bowser isn't a fighter you just go aggressive against, you have to play a patient game and adapt against his weaknesses. I think he'll be very comparable to Melee Ganondorf; he has decent speed in some attacks, a lot of cool-down, good edge-guarding and hits like a brick to the face. Ganondorf messes you up if you autopilot, but if you decide to really think about his options and respect exactly what he's doing, he becomes predictable; you know he only has a small amount of decent approach options.

Bowser seems to have auto-cancelled back-air, forward air (which lag heavily if not done correctly), he also has Whirling Fortress out-of-shield and his jab, and all those options are very easy to see coming and you'll end up getting very used to them (Bowser can't short-hop fast fall with an aerial without stupid lag, so if he throws out back-air and he misses, he's stuck falling for quite a few frames). In all, Bowser is a punisher, with only a tiny few fast options while the rest of his moveset is slower, but kills early.

This seems like a fair assessment. The one big difference I see between him and Meleedorf is that Bowser looks like he'll have much better longetivity due to Smash 4's larger blast zones and his improved recovery. Smash 4's mechanics seem to give heavyweights a bigger advantage than they had previously in terms of living longer, which makes me feel as though Bowser will be high-mid tier instead of mid-tier, since he'll generally have a larger margin for error than his opponents, even if he's beatable if played properly.

 

[Delzethin]

From what we've seen, I think Bowser's gonna be SSB4's version of Dedede. He looks incredible in the demos because no one knows how to handle him yet, but once we get our hands on the game and figure out his weaknesses, he'll just be considered "pretty good".

 

[LancerStaff]

Anybody notice how far his breath reaches? It's, like, half of FD or something.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

I'm suspecting a lot of time-outs...

 

[Zigsta]

I highly doubt it's half of FD. Definitely seemed long but not that long in the demo.

Definitely possible that some characters could try to run against Bowser. It's always been a legitimate option against him. That said, he's faster and hits harder with more moves this time around, so the margin of error against Bowser is way less.

 

[MrEh]

Considering how Bowser runs like a goddamn maniac in this game, it'll probably be harder for characters to run away effectively.

Of course, no way to know until the game actually drops. I still think it's hilarious how Sakurai figured that Bowser was slow enough to warrant that huge speed buff.

 

[Shuckle89]

I think it's unlikely. For reasons mentioned. We've seen way too little. Sure, in the vids we have seen him, he seemed OP, but then again, from what I've seen, almost every char received a buff of some sort. Bowser seems to play a lot like the previous games, so obviously, those who know how to play bowser can handle him just fine. Also, in the vids in which he seems so good, you see actually good players. They could probably make any character look over powered.

Besides that, also a lot of characters weren't unlocked and all the newcomers obviously didn't look that great, simply because no one had the chance of actually practising, so the veterans seemed stronger.

Personally, I think that bowser could very well be pretty high tier, with all of it's buffs. But, it's too soon to tell. He could be OP, but, like I said, unlikely.



edit: I also want to add that we should be cautious before deciding a char is 'OP'. It took some time before meta knight was decided to be, but, now that we have banned a particular char, it's a lot easier to ban a second one. We should keep in mind that banning chars is not something that should be decided easily.

 

[Mr.Random]

LOLOL you are judging Bowser from a demo from a game that hasn't been released, which also has an undeveloped metagame? @Gatlin Please close this thread.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Not saying I think he is, but even if Bowser is God Tier he shouldn't be banned. He deserves it after the last two games.

 

[Hank Hill]

Meta Knight wasn't competitively banned (universally) so I doubt Bowser will, especially since in the demo he did not seem impossible.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Banned or no banned, I use whatever character I want to use, nobody tells me what characters to use, I don't care how OP they are.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Banned or no banned, I use whatever character I want to use, nobody tells me what characters to use, I don't care how OP they are.

WHITE POWER.

 

[S_B]

Having now seen a preview of what the new Bowser can do, I think he has a chance, but I'm still not convinced he'll be god tier or anything close.

It's going to be a game of cat and mouse with Bowser as he tries to chase down his faster opponent. The key difference is now that Bowser catching someone to punish them is going to be VERY punishing, so much so that a player cannot afford to make that kind of mistake more than a few times, unlike in Brawl where getting hit by Bowser wasn't even that big of a deal (unless it was a fully charged F-smash, and seriously, who gets hit by that?).

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Having now seen a preview of what the new Bowser can do, I think he has a chance, but I'm still not convinced he'll be god tier or anything close.

It's going to be a game of cat and mouse with Bowser as he tries to chase down his faster opponent. The key difference is now that Bowser catching someone to punish them is going to be VERY punishing, so much so that a player cannot afford to make that kind of mistake more than a few times, unlike in Brawl where getting hit by Bowser wasn't even that big of a deal (unless it was a fully charged F-smash, and seriously, who gets hit by that?).

another bowser :D

 

[MrEh]

unlike in Brawl where getting hit by Bowser wasn't even that big of a deal (unless it was a fully charged F-smash, and seriously, who gets hit by that?).

Getting grabbed by Bowser was a big deal.

 

[Jerodak]

Honestly based on what I've seen so far from Bowser specifically, the game mechanics, and from certain other characters. While I don't think he'd be at his best on Final Destination with the exception of a few match-ups, I do think that he has the tools to win and could even do quite well for himself in that setting.

 

[S_B]

Getting grabbed by Bowser was a big deal.

Well, if your opponent had ample mastery of the grab-release game, sure.

I'm hoping that 4 will do away with needing to rely on janky gimmicks like that once and for all...

 

[Jerodak]

Well, if your opponent had ample mastery of the grab-release game, sure.

I'm hoping that 4 will do away with needing to rely on janky gimmicks like that once and for all...

The grab-release makes a lot of sense for Bowser, it makes his grab game unique from the rest of the cast and gives him free damage or he can pass that up and go for mix-ups on a conditioned opponent. I agree that it shouldn't be something he needs to rely on but It's certainly not something that he outta lose either. Even with his current adjustments, the grab release game could still be relevant.

 

[Jecux]

Giving buffs to a bad character doesn't automatically transform the character OP

 

[infomon]

ban bowser

lolol

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Considering it's a demo and not even out yet? No
Considering they already said they were going to be making changes to the balancing? No
Given how meta knight was still used despite being banned? No

 

[A Lucky Person]

SDCC is not a good indicator of how good Bowser will be. The smart players knew to get out of the earlier rounds they'd need to get the most kills, and Bowser is the best character to do that with. Then they were probably most comfortable using Bowser, so they continued to do so in the later rounds.

Is he a good character? Yes.
Will he be high tier? Maybe.

Once we all have the game we'll all know his move set as well as how to combo him effectively, so he's most certainly not as good as he seems to be. He definitely won't be banned.

 

[MrEh]

Grab releases were no gimmick and no one really relied on them. Hell, most of the Bowser players couldn't even do it consistently enough to rely on it.

I honestly don't care whether or not grab releases return or not though. Bowser's gotten buffed enough already. lol

 

[LIQUID12A]

(Going by who topped Bowser in Brawl, which was everyone but Zelda and Ganon)

This is actually a question when effective campers like Olimar, Samus and possibly Robin and Mega Man, speedsters like Zero Suit Samus, Lucina/Marth, Little Mac and Fox, and those with amazing air mobility like Pit and MK exist?

Ok.

 

[Jerodak]

Grab releases were no gimmick and no one really relied on them. Hell, most of the Bowser players couldn't even do it consistently enough to rely on it.

I honestly don't care whether or not grab releases return or not though. Bowser's gotten buffed enough already. lol

I'm kinda leaning towards wanting them to return but I won't be upset if they don't, I probably wasn't the greatest at it in Brawl, but it was always fun to use.

 

[Trickerhere]

Nahhh I think Bowser needed those buffs considering how bad he was in the previous iterations. He looks really interesting now and I might play him. So congratz to DJ Nintendo for his Bowser lol

 

[MrEh]

God forbid we start banning characters before the game even drops.

 

[Twewy]

They likely assumed so because Sentinel was God Tier in MvC2

If I'm remembering correctly, Sentinel was initially considered bottom tier in the early days of MvC2, and then came out on top further down the years.

 

[Roxas215]

Remember when people called Sentinel out for being OP as **** and god tier in MvC3 when it came out?
Then it turned out he was like high tier at best and got nerfed because of that in UMvC3, and now the only thing he's good for is as an assist.
Basically, too early, ffs.

I always bring up Vanilla MVC3 sentinel as a prime example of people not knowing what the hell they talking about. Because people complained so much about Sentinel at launch he got nerfed in the next patch and is now worthless other then his assist.

But now when the metagame has fully evolved and we see the REAL broken stuff (Zero/vergil/TAC infs etc) it's too late. Even vanilla sentinel would get destoryed in the marvel 3 meta of today. Hell remember the "Wesker" era in the early days of ultimate? Lmfao.

TLDR. It's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Too early for this