Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[-Mars-]

Villi is that Tyra Banks? lmao

 

[deepseadiva]

The banning of LM is pretty recent. A whole host of other stages hae been banned too. You can see the new changes here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205140

That's not official. It's a suggestion from a SBR member, not fully endorsed. Luigi's, banned, pffft.

 

[Coffee™]

That's not official. It's a suggestion from a SBR member, not fully endorsed. Luigi's, banned, pffft.

It is official, if it was simply a suggestion it would have only been posted in SBR.

On another note. Your sig is disturbing Villi.

 

[Bandit]

Luigi's Mansion has been banned in MD/VA for months. Plank abused the hell out of it with metaknight and it was seen that it was not a stage capable of being used at all. Even at a recent metaknight banned tourney in MD/VA, Luigi's was still banned. I believe the tourney this weekend has it legal though, and it is a metaknight banned tourney as well.

 

[-Mars-]

Luigi's Mansion has been banned in MD/VA for months. Plank abused the hell out of it with metaknight and it was seen that it was not a stage capable of being used at all. Even at a recent metaknight banned tourney in MD/VA, Luigi's was still banned. I believe the tourney this weekend has it legal though, and it is a metaknight banned tourney as well.

This new banning of LM could seriously hamper Zelda's metagame. One of your most reliable counterpicks is taken completely out of the equation...........that's huge.

 

[Bandit]

I had been using Norfair but I have found japes is an amazing stage against most of the cast if it is legal. I have no problems with drowning, and I can still kill in all directions thanks to the many Zelda kill moves. I save my down smash to kill on all stages, but it is essential at japes since it kicks the opponents under the edge platforms or out right off the stage for the kill. I would seriously consider practicing up on Japes if it is legal in your region. For the most part, it is legal in mine.

 

[Kyuubi9t]

On a side note, all the purple in this thread is sexy

being that purple is my fav. color after black, i agree

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It is official, if it was simply a suggestion it would have only been posted in SBR.

On another note. Your sig is disturbing Villi.

no. it's not official. if it were official they still wouldn't have the other ruleset linked as the "official" ruleset.

And Umbreon, the OP even says that it's not official. It's for the TO to decide what he does. So, in short, no. Luigi's is not banned yet.

and don't freak out zelda mains, she does just about as well on battlefield really, and this ruleset removes lylat from the neutral list, which is a big help.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It is official, if it was simply a suggestion it would have only been posted in SBR.

On another note. Your sig is disturbing Villi.

It would be an announcement if so.


This is a SBR member attempting to "get input" (aka convince everyone his ruleset is best) with a much more spartan ruleset then the current SBR rules.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I forgot to mention that Pit does really well at Norfair. Should a Pit take you there, you may want to expect Some U-airs, and some possible camping at the ledges. Actually that stage is also a CP against Falco
Try to avoid being at Norfair with a good Pit at all times for he could get you to be above him (Which is where Pit wants you) a lot.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yeah. at norfair I'd probably switch to sheik to deal with pit. at least sheik can spiderman there to make use of the stage's unique layout. And can chase down pit a hell of a lot better than zelda can

 

[Coffee™]

no. it's not official. if it were official they still wouldn't have the other ruleset linked as the "official" ruleset.

And Umbreon, the OP even says that it's not official. It's for the TO to decide what he does.

It was always for the TO to decide wheter he would use that ruleset or not. The SBR's "official ruleset" is always just the recommended ruleset, you never actually have to follow it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It was always for the TO to decide wheter he would use that ruleset or not. The SBR's "official ruleset" is always just the recommended ruleset, you never actually have to follow it.

and THAT isn't the official one. It's a suggestion by Umbreon or it wouldn't say "improved" it would say "official"

and, BTW, that set is probably not going to fly. it's way too restrictive. But that is beyond the scope of the argument here.

we were discussing pit's matchup vs. zelda and, honestly I'm not convinced it's anything but neutral.

on certain stages pit will have an advantage, on certain stages zelda will have an advantage and on other stages they'll be neutral. The way tournaments work with CPs and starters, neither zelda nor pit are going to have an edge in stages by default. so the matchup is entirely decided by skill and artful CPing. The definition of neutral.

 

[Coffee™]

I spoke with Umbreon yesterday and he said the owner of smashboards from MLG came and told the SBR that their ruleset wasn't good and that it had to be changed. If you read through the thread you would see that another moderator also posted in the thread saying that this was discussed in SBR before being released, i'm pretty positive this is going to be the new ruleset at least for now.

As far as Pit vs Zelda, I firmly believe that it is 60:40 in favor of Pit, I disagree in saying that Pit has a neutral matchup with Zelda on a neutral stage. The only stage I could really see Pit having slight problems on is Jungle Japes due to Zelda's Dsmash. Some of the Zelda mains that posted even claim that Zelda maybe at a disadvantage 45:55 or 40:60. Personally I believe it is 60:40 as do most of the Pit mains. I've already posted why I think so. So if you choose to do your write up favoring Battlefield as a counter pick and listing this matchup as neutral then whatever. You have my input as a Pit main and input from some other Pit mains, what you choose to do with it or believe is your decision.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I spoke with Umbreon yesterday and he said the owner of smashboards from MLG came and told the SBR that their ruleset wasn't good and that it had to be changed. If you read through the thread you would see that another moderator also posted in the thread saying that this was discussed in SBR before being released, i'm pretty positive this is going to be the new ruleset at least for now.

If that's true then I find it hard to believe the SBR would be bowing to pressure so soon after a change-over, at this point there's still a mindset of "we can leave", so pressuring the SBR into doing something like that would be a BAD idea. Anyway, it's also doubtful, because outsiders generally want LESS restrictive rulesets for us, not more.


Regardless, the fact that it was DISCUSSED in SBR doesn't make it official. A lot of people discuss a lot of different rule possibilities there.


Let me note that this is BASICALLY the ruleset used by Atlantic North TOs in general, so it's been floating around the backroom for a while now with only small edits (even before the original ruleset came out). It's also been heavily discussed before.

Umbreon just compiled the ruleset, and set it up for a discussion on just that in tactical. It's possible that this MIGHT be the ruleset in the future, but we don't know. Basically the only reason people are thinking it's official is because it's Umbreon who is SBR and announces things for the SBR relatively often, and it's formatted like a complete ruleset.

Nowhere on the thread was there any declaration that it's official, HOWEVER there's a good possibility it will become official in the near future.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

my opinions on specific stages in case you were interested

Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 1, Castle Seige and Yoshi's Island: 50:50
Battlefield: 55:45 Zelda
Final Destination, Delfino Plaza: 55:45 Pit
Luigi's Mansion: 60:40 Zelda
Lylat Cruise, Battleship Halberd, frigate orpheon and apparently norfair: 60:40 pit


maybe this is an exaggeration of stage effects. but it seems to me that the first match of the game is probably going to be neutral and has a chance of slightly favouring one player. Both have CPs that they can use to their advantage so both SHOULD win their CP choices just as easily.

 

[Kyuubi9t]

my opinions on specific stages in case you were interested

Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 1, Castle Seige and Yoshi's Island: 50:50
Battlefield: 55:45 Zelda
Final Destination, Delfino Plaza: 55:45 Pit
Luigi's Mansion: 60:40 Zelda
Lylat Cruise, Battleship Halberd, frigate orpheon and apparently norfair: 60:40 pit


maybe this is an exaggeration of stage effects. but it seems to me that the first match of the game is probably going to be neutral and has a chance of slightly favouring one player. Both have CPs that they can use to their advantage so both SHOULD win their CP choices just as easily.

I do agree with these estimates. Are these the only legal stages or something?

 

[Coffee™]

I do agree with these estimates. Are these the only legal stages or something?

I disagree with em -_-

These are what I would put matchup estimates at.

Jungle Japes - 60:40 Zelda (Personally I believe this is her best stage in this matchup)
Pokemon Stadium 1, Castle Seige and Yoshi's Island: 55:45 - Zelda
Battlefield, Smashville, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Battleship Halberd, Frigate Orpheon and Norfair: 60:40 Pit
Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium 2: 55:45 Pit
Luigi's Mansion: 50:50 Zelda/Pit

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I do agree with these estimates. Are these the only legal stages or something?

they are the only ones on that list Maniaclyrasist sent me besides orpheon and brinstar and I don't know enough about pit on thse stages to say anything.

as for Maniacrlyrasist's matchu[ estimates. I must conclude he does not play aginst zledas to think that he can use luigi's mansion as well as her and Battlefield better. no way in hell pit is 60:40 on battlefield. But keep thinking that, Zeldas will love to have you CP one of her best stages against her.

 

[Coffee™]

no way in hell pit is 60:40 on battlefield. But keep thinking that, Zeldas will love to have you CP one of her best stages against her.

I could say the same for you about you thinking Zelda has the advantage there, but whatever. I'm done trying to convince you of that. In the end it doesn't even matter.

Let me put this another way.

Lets say that I agree with you that Battlefield is in Zelda advantage (which it honestly isn't) then Pit still has the advantage on every "current" legal stage exculding Jungle Japes, Yoshi's Island Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 2 and possibly Mario Circuit. If you take the Umbreons personal list into consideration which I think is considerably better anyway.

Stage List:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1

Then Pit now only had 1 stage where he is disadvantaged, two if you want to count Battlefield (which as I said before is as far as I can see in Pit's advantage). And if Pit can have the advantage on almost all counter picks as well as neutrals why do you even bother to still argue that this is a neutral matchup?

 

[Rykoshet]

This is an extreme throwback but I'm fully convinced that zelda should never ever ever ever even think of attempting to downsmash dedede like... ever. Did I mention ever?

 

[Iris]

I wasn't paying attention. Did I frequently use it in our matches? Because I realize the range can not compete.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Then Pit now only had 1 stage where he is disadvantaged, two if you want to count Battlefield (which as I said before is as far as I can see in Pit's advantage). And if Pit can have the advantage on almost all counter picks as well as neutrals why do you even bother to still argue that this is a neutral matchup?

Because it's supposed to be a match between the characters, a counterpick is meant to give an advantage to the character using it >_>

I love how everyone is super biased <3

 

[Coffee™]

Because it's supposed to be a match between the characters, a counterpick is meant to give an advantage to the character using it >_>

If I were talking specifically about counterpick stages I could see where you are coming from, but I am talking about both "neutrals" and "counterpicks".

Even if you look at Sonic's list of you will see that even he thinks Pit has the advantage on more stages than Zelda does. Stages that Pit wouldn't even consider as counterpicks in this matchup.....

I love how everyone is super biased <3

Obviously there is going to be bias in character discussions....

However if you read my previous arguments you will see that I ask and respond for the most part objectively to everything said about the matchup.

 

[Kataefi]

Look, everything's very split. Some say Zelda has the advantage, others say Pit. We're all going to agree to disagree!

But can we possibly agree (for the sake of agreement) that it's 50:50 first match, and then whatever is counterpicked counts in favour of or against Pit or Zelda?

 

[RoyalBlood]

Well whatever, just keep the healthy debate going and gimme a conclusion when you get one that BOTH sides (more than 2/3 members) agree ;3

 

[Coffee™]

But can we possibly agree (for the sake of agreement) that it's 50:50 first match, and then whatever is counterpicked counts in favour of or against Pit or Zelda?

Pit has the advantages on every neutral therefore the matchup is always going to favour Pit until it goes to counterpicks, so why should it be 50:50?

If you want to stop and go ahead and list it as 50:50 for the sake of the rest of the characters you guys still have to do then by all means go ahead, but that doesn't mean the Pit boards will probably ever agree with that decision.

 

[Kataefi]

I'm sorry, no... it's your persistent view that Zelda is grossly disadvantaged on Battlefield that makes you think Pit has every advantage.

I believe Smashville and Yoshi's Island are 50:50 neutral matchups also, possibly amongst others. I agree with this, I think Sonic agrees with this, even your fellow Pit friend agrees:

I do agree with these estimates. Are these the only legal stages or something?

There are some neutral stages that go against or even out the matchup, but both players will agree to one neutral before counterpicking commences.

The way I see it in tournament first round? Zelda will want an advantaged neutral (Battlefield), Pit will want an advantaged neutral (FD?) - therefore in the first round neither will agree to play each other on their foe's advantaged neutrals (and both players need to be in agreement), so both will probably opt for an evenly matched neutral stage (Smashville etc...) first before their counterpicking begins.

Therefore... the matchup is 50:50 in my eyes and then it sways depending on the counterpick ^^

 

[Coffee™]

As I said do what you feel like, if you think its a 50:50 matchup then put that if you want. The one Pit main you brought up that agreed with you was also in the minority in comparison to the rest of Pit mains that posted saying for the most part that it was in Pit's advantage wheter it be 55:45 or 60:40 so that is still pretty weak reasoning to lend to your argument.

Ideally character matchups should be as objectively based as possible. If you take any neutral main through what we've discussed in the past few pages they can easily see that the majority of what was brought up for the Zelda side was almost entirely subjectively based and thus arguably too opinionated to write an accurate match summary.

Sometimes I honestly don't see the point in boards asking for the opinions of the boards of the mains they are writing the character matchups for if they choose to never accept any information they are given in favour of their own views.

Hey, but whatever 50:50 Pit/Zelda.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I'm neither a Zelda main or Pit main, but I have to say that Pit has the small advantage in this match-up based on what I've seen and read.

 

[Kataefi]

The irony in your post is fantastic maniac ^^

I could also completely turn this around and say that everything you've just written is entirely subjectively based and thus arguably too opinionated to write an accurate match summary.

As Zelda mains, we give you as much objective information as possible and it's natural for someone who doesn't main her to perceive that as subjective.

Zelda and Pit both have tools to destroy each other. Zelda supposedly has a better ground game and her high knockback moves and odd trajectories from DSmash put Pit in the gimpable zone sooner, whilst Pit can outcamp and can gimp Zelda slightly easier than vice versa. Both have different traits they must capitalise on that is ultimately down to the player's skill in being able to harness. This is why I'm saying 50:50.

The most significant effect on this matchup is not a particular strategy or move from either character, but rather what stage is chosen, and this is why the matchup comes down to counterpicking. Take away counterpicking and give them both a neutral stage where neither has the advantage (if it's solely based on character vs character mentality as you say and not the stage), then it's 50:50. Add in counterpicking and stage advantages, the matchup changes significantly. You say Pit may have more advantageous stages that also happen to be neutral as well, but this is a character matchup, not a character-stage one, so in this respect I'm still sticking with 50:50 ^^

And sorry for being so persistant - it's 6 in the morning here :O

 

[Coffee™]

The irony in your post is fantastic maniac ^^

I could also completely turn this around and say that everything you've just written is entirely subjectively based and thus arguably too opinionated to write an accurate match summary.

You could say so, but you would be wrong. I purposely aimed to try to be as objective as possible in this discussion. I at no point claimed that everything I said was objective...that would be impossible. In turn, basically everything that was argued about Zelda was subjectively based and extremely opinionated, that is completely clear by looking through the most of posts of the Zelda mains concerning this matchup. In fact I invite you to go take a look at the posts of the Zelda mains and compare them to my posts and take a look at the level of subjectivity in our posts. I can assure you that you find quite a bit more subjectivity in their posts than in mine.

As Zelda mains, we give you as much objective information as possible and it's natural for someone who doesn't main her to perceive that as subjective.

I beg to disagree. The Zelda mains who commented on the Pit matchup (who obviously don't main him) based this matchup on people they have played for the most part as evident from the material that they posted, which in turn shows that they are again being very subjective in their decisions. The information regarding the matchup by the Zelda mains contained very little objectivity to begin with.

Zelda and Pit both have tools to destroy each other. Zelda supposedly has a better ground game and her high knockback moves and odd trajectories from DSmash put Pit in the gimpable zone sooner, whilst Pit can outcamp and can gimp Zelda slightly easier than vice versa. Both have different traits they must capitalise on that is ultimately down to the player's skill in being able to harness. This is why I'm saying 50:50.

A fair amount of this is quite arguable, especially from a Pit mains perspective. I argue that Pit has a better ground game and can gimp Zelda quite easily in comparison to Zelda gimping Pit. I agree that they both have different traits that a player will have to capatalize to win, but in the end it is still going to be harder for Zelda to take down Pit, based on the things that actually make this a hard match up for her like his generic arrow camping, his ledge camping and his aerial superiority offstage. Pit (the character, player unaccounted for) has an advantage in this matchup by default and "This is why I'm saying 60:40."

The most significant effect on this matchup is not a particular strategy or move from either character, but rather what stage is chosen, and this is why the matchup comes down to counterpicking.

This is not particularly true as shown in my aforementioned comment Pit unarguably has strageties that will cause Zelda fairly significant problems, where as the problems Zelda causes Pit are minimal in comparison. Most stages, especially the neutral stages only work to strengthen the characteristics that make the Pit/Zelda matchup an uphil battle for Zelda.

You say Pit may have more advantageous stages that also happen to be neutral as well, but this is a character matchup, not a character-stage one, so in this respect I'm still sticking with 50:50 ^^

I'm not the only one who believes that Pit has more advantageous stages, keep in mind it was a Zelda main who actually made the first comment about it while showing that Pit does indeed have more advantageous stages than Zelda. However, I agree that this is a character matchup and not a character + stage matchup but even in that respect, Pits advantages still outweigh his disadvantges in this matchup, more so than Zelda's do. This is why I believe the matchup is 60:40 in favour of Pit.

And sorry for being so persistant - it's 6 in the morning here :O

Its fine. I'm known for being persistant anyway, on that note good night, I need some sleep. ^^

 

[Admiral Pit]

Im gonna assume these. They are Not accurate but Im assuming these based on the stage environment and such.

Battlefield: Seems like 50-50
Platforms to assist em both in helping them get their opponent in the air, which is what Pit and Zelda want, and is a basic stage. Note that Pit can ledgecamp.

Final Destination: Seems like 50-50
Basic stage with no platforms besides the main one, nothing special here. Note that Pit can ledgecamp.

Smashville: Seems like 50-50
Platform assists em both and can hurt their projectiles at times. Actually I got nothing, though Pit can ledgecamp.

Yoshi's Island: About 40-60 Zelda favor
Yoshi's Island is the worst neutral for Pit, because of them Shy guys could block our arrows and that we cant glide under it (Pit shouldnt glide vs Zelda anyways). Zelda's projectile, however, has a blast radius that could hurt both the Shy Guys and Pit at the same time. The platform does help both of them out, but Zelda's long-lasting Usmash could trouble Pit if he is above Zelda.

Lylat Cruise: No decision yet, but maybe 55-45 Pit's favor
The tilting platform can screw both recoveries up, Zelda's more than Pit's. The small platforms can assist both characters in controlling the place.

Luigi's Mansion is in Zelda's favor for obvious reasons. Pit cant shoot his arrows with the mansion in tact, he cant glide under the stage, and is limited to close combat, that of which Zelda outranges Pit.

Norfair: About 60-40 Pit's Favor
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5847447&postcount=168
For those who didnt read it, here it is

-Great room to shoot and loop arrows
-Small platforms weaken the effectiveness of Chaingrabbers like Dedede and Falco
-If the lava is high enough, if Pit is spiked, he'll be launched back up by the lava. Pit does have a D-tilt spike that is affected by this.
-Large amount of room to Glide, as well as go Under the stage if the lava isnt high enough
-His camping capabilities are great here
-Pit can go under Platform after platform delivering U-air after U-air, pressuring the opponents above him. When using the "Up-B near the ledge to grab the ledge quieker" thing, it boosts the speed effectiveness for Pit's camping and stall game.
-Pit's Mirror Shield can block the lava falls from both sides of the screen and the blasts from the background
-Pit can simply fly over the lava wave to avoid damage, or use that Up-B thing by the ledge to gain invicibility frames to avoid it, rather than getting inside the capsule
-A counterpick against Falco
-A counterpick against Snake
-A possible counterpick against Diddy and Dedede

In addition to that, Pit can use those platforms to get under you, and Pit wants you to be above him. That's where the U-airs take place. Pit could camp and stall as well, and can be pressuring. So you dont wanna meet a Pit at Norfair at all times, just like we Pits dont want to meet Zelda at Luigi's Mansion.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

with what you put, Zelda will start off even or advantaged in their neutrals and both have a stong counterpick.


makes it look like the matchup is even. which I agree with. As have most other people. RoyalBlood, the majority of the zelda mains and the majority of the pit mains who have been in this thread seem to say neutral. We'll never pull maniaclyrisist over, so you might as well not wait on that. And everyone save him agree that Zelda should CP Luigi's Mansion. he's the only one who seems to deny pit will have an obvious disadvantage there.

so unless big changes in the debate arise, 50:50 w/ LM as a CP seems like the best option.


and as for who has more advantaged stages... it doesn't matter. They break even on the neutrals and both have strong CPs. it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 22 CPs to chose from 'cause you'll only need to use the one. this matchup SHOULD go to whoever wins the first game on the neutral stage.

 

[Admiral Pit]

LM is ur counter and Norfair is ours. I might as well go even on this.

 

[GodAtHand]

Alright so I see 4 Pit mains and now one agrees its 50:50,

I don't see this argument going anywhere. Both sides have pointed out their characters strengths and the others weakness its just a matter of each side overestimating their opponents weakness and underestimating their own.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I really hate to comment on old things, but since I haven´t been around for a while there´s no other choice, since I really have to comment these things:

Luigis Mansion can ONLY limit pits arrows if you are on a higher platform or outside of the pillars. If you are inside the pillars then Pit will outcamp you.

Where do you think Zelda will stay for most of the match?

I mentioned Uair because it means you cannot camp AT ALL if you are on an above platform. And what do you mean it is not a threatening platform poke? It's not going to kill you obviously but it will rack up damage and it will shield poke you unless perfect shielded, definitely not an advantages position for most characters let alone Zelda.

Let´s just say that I would be more afraid of sweetspotted Zelda´s Bairs & Fairs and Uairs that cause damage, can kill and are a lot easier to connect on plattforms than Pit´s Nairs and Uairs that do cause damage, but not too much and can´t kill.

Zelda has what? A Fsmash a Dsmash, Usmash and Utilt for killing, possibly Ftilt.

Fair, Bair, Uair, B-throw (if saved and used near the edge) Din (veeeery ocasionally), Dair spike

Are you seriously telling me Usmash isn't used as a KO move.... Yes it can punish OoS well and stop aerial approaches but from the Zelda's i''ve played as well as the ones i've seen videos of it is also used as a KO move so don't go telling me its not.

Let me get this straight: you´re telling a Zelda main that he uses U-smash as a kill move because you´ve seen videos of players doing that? Sounds really logical...

Sure, it can kill. But that doesn´t mean that is it´s main use (as you made it look like in the earlier post). Snake´s box can kill too, so it´s also used as kill move often?

Zelda would want her opponent in the air, but so does Pit. A Pit could simply use D-tilt or D-throw or U-throw (D-tilt is better imo) to launch Zelda in the air, then go for U-airs, and other great moves.
Zelda, should she get Pit in the air, she has her U-tilt, Usmash, and U-air. Both characters are VERY good in the air, and it's usually a race to whoever get who in the air first.

Agree, they both like to keep their enemies in the air, although for different reasons. Pit gets in damage and multihits by chasing, Zelda has options to kill and send opponents back into the air for more hits without fear of getting punished too often. Problem Zelda has is that he can´t really chase Pit in the air, while Pit can actually chase her fairly well.

Jungle Japes - 60:40 Zelda (Personally I believe this is her best stage in this matchup)

Even though it really doesn´t matter, I must note that Pit´s arrow spam is so deadly to Zelda here that it shouldn´t be considered her advantage.

I don't see this argument going anywhere. Both sides have pointed out their characters strengths and the others weakness its just a matter of each side overestimating their opponents weakness and underestimating their own.

That sums it up pretty well, that´s what has been going on for a while IMO.


For the matchup, I think 50:50 or 55:45 Pit´s advantage, both go for me, depending on who´s looking. Anything else would feel strange/wrong.

Edit: Recommended stage LM, second BF because it either helps Zelda more than it does Pit, or at least doesn´t give her disadvantage.

 

[kown]

I'm sorry, no... it's your persistent view that Zelda is grossly disadvantaged on Battlefield that makes you think Pit has every advantage.

I believe Smashville and Yoshi's Island are 50:50 neutral matchups also, possibly amongst others. I agree with this, I think Sonic agrees with this, even your fellow Pit friend agrees:

50:50 on one of pits worst stages....and than you go to say that its a 50:50 match up..it makes a lot of sense if u have no experience against a pit...which is obvious.

okay so all in all pit does have the advantage here...its like this

noob pits > noob zeldas
okay pits < okay zeldas
above average zelda > above average pit
excellent pit > excellent zelda

the learning curves are different. This is why it changes.

 

[Coffee™]

Some of you guys are impossible, the only person who is posting anything of any real substance is Kataefi, for the most part eveyone else is just taking parts of posts that lend to their arguments and stating them to "try" to gain an advantage in their argument.

Example:

with what you put, Zelda will start off even or advantaged in their neutrals and both have a stong counterpick.

Alright so I see 4 Pit mains and now one agrees its 50:50,

Yet AB says

Im gonna assume these. They are Not accurate

I really hate to comment on old things, but since I haven´t been around for a while there´s no other choice, since I really have to comment these things: + random subjective stuff

I really couldn't be bothered to respond to any more walls of text so lol if what you posted is going to help ya sleep at night. Have fun.

Whatever, this is starting to bore me and I'm only really interested in what Kataefi has left to say ^^.

Here is some casual advice:

1: Don't let Pit take you to Norfair.
2: Jungle Japes is a considerably better pick than Mansion for Zelda and should honestly be your counter pick of choice.
3: NL is good for rejecting Pits Arrows once in a while, but don't rely on it or you will still be outcamped due to its high cooldown lag.
4: A ledgecamping Pit will be the crap out of Zelda on most stages. I'm not sure what you can do about it. Dsmash could possibly work if you managed to time it right but against a good Pit it will be hard to land. If NL reaches underneath the lip of stages then you could use that, but you still have to be careful or you will simply eat and Uair or Nair.
5: Don't be lead into a misconception that Pit has a hard time killing Zelda, she's fairly light and Pit's Fsmash will probably kill her in the low 100s, Bair probably in the 90s. Spacing is the most important thing for Zelda in this matchup, so thats where your focus should lie.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Have fun.

Thank you, I will. ^_^

1: Don't let Pit take you to Norfair.

Completely agreed.

2: Jungle Japes is a considerably better pick than Mansion for Zelda and should honestly be your counter pick of choice.

Completely disagreed.

5: Don't be lead into a misconception that Pit has a hard time killing Zelda, she's fairly light and Pit's Fsmash will probably kill her in the low 100s, Bair probably in the 90s. Spacing is the most important thing for Zelda in this matchup, so thats where your focus should lie.

Pit can kill Zelda at not too high percents, but with somewhat lmited options. Zelda can kill Pit at not too high percents, but with somewhat hard-to-connect moves or with the problem of getting into good place to use them.

Also, correction to my previous post: I´ll also accept 60:40 Pit´s advantage, but I think 55:45 or 50:50 would be a lot more accurate.