Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[-Mars-]

I also wonder if it has IASA frames. I swear I can use fsmash in similar ways to how Lucario users use the move.

 

[RedSnowman]

I just wanted to state that I strongly agree with Zelda's gimping potential on Pit. Her down smash is crucial to keeping him low and once he's down and off the stage it merely becomes a game of timing your LK or dair right and you ko him.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

you don't even have to strong dair him. Actually, I've gimped pit multiple times with sourspotted fairs or bairs.

oh and Zelda's Fsmash > Pit's Fsmash... that's REALLY important

 

[JigglyZelda003]

it is? maybe now i can just take out the Fsmashing pit spammer other than BBQing him to death lol.

 

[-Mars-]

you don't even have to strong dair him. Actually, I've gimped pit multiple times with sourspotted fairs or bairs.

oh and Zelda's Fsmash > Pit's Fsmash... that's REALLY important

Gimping Pit is actually viable with Zelda. If he's recovering high and he glides, you actually get a hit with Dins Fire.......wow. That pretty much eliminates his best option from the start. If he's recovering low and he's forced to use his up b, he can glide underneath most stages to escape safely. Every now and then you can hit him with something out of his up b, but it's not as simple as it sounds

On the reverse side, Pit destroys Zelda off the stage. He can literally stay out there forever using fairs as your initiating Farore's. Bair is also his best kill move, so avoid it near the edges of the map at all costs.

I think what makes this matchup interesting is the fact that Pit has problems killing Zelda. His best kill moves are: Bair, Fsmash, and iirc his glide attack. All of these moves are extremely hard for him to land against Zelda and his glide attack is taken almost completely out of the picture. His best option for KO's in this matchup is most likely his edgeguards. I would like to find out what Pit players think about the matchup as I have no recollection of any high level vids on the matchup. My own personal experiences do not factor into my decision even though I have played above average Pits.

He does force the approach from Zelda with his trump card. Do not rely on Naryus against arrows as Pit can just hold the arrow as long as he wants. A powershielding/SHAD'ing approach is much better. Once you get into Zelda fsmash range, his spacing is screwed and his options are limited. If he uses any sort of laggy attack on your shield, you should be punishing with bair OoS. In fact, if you powershield his fsmash he should eat bair OoS. He's not all that heavy either so killing Pit is easy for Zelda, be sure to keep a fresh usmash for 100% KO's.

As long as you don't play Pit on FD, you should be fine. Like Sonic said earlier..........BF or Luigi's are your best bets.

 

[M@v]

Dont forget as soon as pit initiates his upb, hes completely vulnerable. If you hit him offstage while he is in upb, hes screwed and cant do anything about it.

 

[Kataefi]

Actually pit does pretty badly at edgeguarding Zelda when you use love jump immediately and FW straight passed him, I find anyways.

But if you recovery slowly and clumsily then yeah he will attack you constantly off the stage.

 

[Brinzy]

As far as the arrow is concerned... don't Nayru's as soon as you see him pull it up. It's better to wait a split second or so. (Hold it long enough so that the ending of Nayru's could still reflect the arrow, or just hit B as soon as you see it move.)

Reflecting it isn't necessary, though. Might be better to just powershield and move on...

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Good Pits rarely get gimped offstage. They've got plenty of options, with gliding and arrows and multiple jumps. You should never rely on that for victory. If it happens, great, but it should not be your main kill move if the Pit knows what he's doing.

Also, don't forget that Pit will be much better at gimping Zelda off stage then the inverse. A simple short hopped arrow can knock her out of FW.

Zelda's ground game is great against him, Sheik's almost comically so. The easiest way to win the match is to press down+b. You get great ground options as well as much better gimp options, air maneouverability, faster projectile.

45:55 Pit's favor against Zelda

 

[Brinzy]

Another disadvantage? Jesus christ.

Yes, I know I keep *****ing.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it's not. don't listen to him. Pit vs. zelda is not a FUN matchup. you have to be patient and learn to deal with camping. But, honestly, he shouldn't be killing you with anything except off the stage bairs. Zelda has a frustrating match to deal with and plays a much less finesse based game against Pit, but all she has to do is space well and punish and pit should die at lower damages than Zelda does. and if you feel too decayed you can always switch to sheik after a smash attack connects so you can make use of the ninja to gimp and then transform back for fresh moves.

Like I said. I prefer sheik here because sheik has probably a 60:40 advantage and using both might be 65:35. But zelda alone isn't disadvantaged. it's momentum and stage based maybe, but it's not advantaged on either side on average.

 

[Kataefi]

Zelda is not disadvantaged. Zelda will get fewer hits in for the kill. Zelda is one of the best edgeguarders against him with Din's and Dair (considering he cannot airdodge in his recovery and is completely paralysed once knocked out of it). Her Fsmash outranges and outspaces him. She has a reflector (despite its end lag it's still a reflector regardless). Love jump allows to quickly rise from his tirade of attacks offstage and FW passed him. Once Pit is above Zelda, he has NO options - he's a sitting duck, he can only bait her with arrows or fall into the inevitable Usmash or Uair.

Pit on the other hand outcamps and generally out-speeds Zelda regarding aerial movement. He can easily challenge her in the air where he will outrange her here.

The matchup is definitely 50:50 because both characters need to capitalise on different strengths and understand their fundamental weaknesses.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Another disadvantage? Jesus christ.

Yes, I know I keep *****ing.

at least its not like Fox. Zelda doesn't have a matchup called LOL:embarrass

 

[GodAtHand]

Ground game = Zelda's
Air game = Pits
Killing % = Zelda's
Camping = Pit's
Gimping = Zelda's

I would say 45-55 Zelda's favor at least. I definitely don't think this is a disadvantage. IMO.

But you people have seen the pit I play so......... I have played others that are much better just mostly him.

 

[PSI Locke22]

curse this sites ratings, can someone help me become better at using zelda

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ground game = Zelda's
Air game = Pits
Killing % = Zelda's
Camping = Pit's
Gimping = Zelda's

I would say 45-55 Zelda's favor at least. I definitely don't think this is a disadvantage. IMO.

But you people have seen the pit I play so......... I have played others that are much better just mostly him.

I wouldn't say zelda is any better at gimping pit than pit is at edgeguarding Zelda...

 

[GodAtHand]

Just for argument, how is Pit any better than any other character at gimping Zelda? Is it his arrows?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

arrows interrupt Farore's and it's really not hard at all for him to jump out there and bair/fair you if he can get you in a bad position. It'll happen some.

 

[GodAtHand]

Doesn't farore's stop the arrows? I think I remember a few times when my friend tried that and the arrow just kinda stopped after it hit the opening farore's hit box. And after you get hit by the first arrow just lovejump and you are back on stage.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Doesn't farore's stop the arrows? I think I remember a few times when my friend tried that and the arrow just kinda stopped after it hit the opening farore's hit box. And after you get hit by the first arrow just lovejump and you are back on stage.

if you've used your double jump you can't.

and farore's only occasionally cancels double jump. and even when it does, it puts you in a more disadvantageous position to have to try it again

 

[RedSnowman]

In response to what a lot of people are saying I say it's 50:50. It could go either way depending on which character capitalizes on their strong points. It's going to be an interesting match.

 

[Mocha19]

Pit can do some really crazy stuff if he knows what he's doing. I say it should be 50:50.

 

[Kaffei]

Not to sound nooby, but what's Gimping?

 

[Kataefi]

A gimp kill is basically a kill on someone at very low or early percents via spikes, edge guarding or knockback moves (amongst others).

Zelda has a spike (albeit a a very precise one), very high knockback moves when fresh and great edgeguarding tools (din's) against Pit, which makes her a worthy adversary.

Still 50:50 IMO, and I think others will agree.

If love jump is used to gain dramatic vertical distance, Zelda cannot be easily gimped by Pit's arrows. At worst she'll be hurt but she'll pull a FW eventually.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

pit's airspeed and maneverability still give zelda trouble if pit's edgeguarding though.

 

[Kataefi]

I have to disagree.

I've escaped gimps from very aggressive MKs just by using the sheer speed and height of love jump and warping straight through them. I follow immediately with a USmash or Uair.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yes. you CAN escape gimps. but that doesn't mean he an't get them in. A lot of characters have trouble edgeuarding Zelda period. But pit does not. you have to work harder to avoid him AND a clever pit is going to try to fake you out by feinting an edgeguard and then going for the ledgehog or punishing your landing lag.

To say pit doesn't autokill zelda when she's off the edge is one thing, but to say he can't edgeguard her is quite an other.

Zelda being off the stage against pit is a more disadvantageous position than the opposite.

 

[-Mars-]

He also can do some nice stuff with the arrow looping and such that can put you into a bad position when your worrying about recovering.

 

[GodAtHand]

I can reluctantly agree to 50-50 but... I personally think Zelda should have a slight advantage, but that is all from personal experience and I don't have any concrete data-like stuff to back that up, so...

 

[Half-Split Soul]

50:50 maybe, but I have to disagree with Zelda´s possible advantage. If Pit is being spammy, Zelda will have more than enough trouble approaching. Powershielding is pretty much only reliable way to get closer, and when Zelda gets into F-smash range Pit can either run, use F-smash (if spacing is little off) or side-b. Since Angel ring moves him a bit forward, it can often catch Zelda before F-smash.

Angel ring also causes problems if you get into it. If Zelda shielded, she will either have to wait veeery long time with shield on to have even the slightest possibility to punish (albeit this can lead into F- or D-smash) or roll away and make space between them. Her roll is too short to get behind Pit in most cases.

If she didn´t shield, the only option is smash DI away and eat an arrow or F-smash (which actually can kill Zelda pretty early if reserved and timed corectly). Pit also can defend himself from Dins with both arrows, side-b and down-b. Arrow protection can often be used even while recovering.

The biggest advantages Zelda have are dominance from below and lower killing percents, while Pit´s are better camping, possible edgeguards & edgehogs and spacing options.

 

[Kataefi]

I said she cannot be easily gimped, I never in the slightest said Pit cannot get them in. He can.

Love jump is underrated in this matchup. If Zelda was recovering from below the stage, she'll have a problem. Vertical love jump eliminates this problem.

However, if pit doesn't chase after her and remains on stage, he can punish her lag. Or Zelda can be clever in this respect and sweetspot the ledge from above if the spacing's right.

 

[GodAtHand]

In response to angel ring: If a Pit EVER uses angel ring Zelda can pretty much get in a free Dins. Just block, roll away and start Din's and aim it so it will only hit his feet and you get a free extra 10 - 15% damage on him. I usually do this by aiming toward the ground where only the very very edge of din's will hit.

And forward smash may be strong, but for Pit its one of the few moves that has a small chance of outranging Zelda's forward smash so its usually very decayed. I have survived forward smashes from Pit's up to 160%.

If you save your D-smash which there is not a really pressing reason not to in this match-up you should be able to send Pit off at a very low angle fairly early on. And once he has to recover from a low angle.. he is pretty much dead. If he trys to glide you get a free dins. If he doesn't glide and you Din's he will either pull out the mirror shield or airdodge and that will drop him even lower forcing him to use his wings... and once he does that all you have to do is hit him.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

In response to angel ring: If a Pit EVER uses angel ring Zelda can pretty much get in a free Dins. Just block, roll away and start Din's and aim it so it will only hit his feet and you get a free extra 10 - 15% damage on him. I usually do this by aiming toward the ground where only the very very edge of din's will hit.

And forward smash may be strong, but for Pit its one of the few moves that has a small chance of outranging Zelda's forward smash so its usually very decayed. I have survived forward smashes from Pit's up to 160%.

If Pit uses Angel ring recklessly, then yes, he will get burned. However, if it's used for example when Zelda is coming from air, it usually beats everything she can throw out. Pit also can stop it when he thinks Zelda will get out of it, giving him some protection. (but not too much)

With f-smash, the biggest problem isn't it killing, that, as you said, doesn't happen too often or early. The reason why it can cause trouble in the matchup is its decent knockback combined into its speed. If Pit hits with it, zelda will fly far enough for Pit to think his next move in peace or start arrow spam again or whatever he wants to do. Because of the attacks fairly good speed, it can and will work as an effective way to create space between Pit and Zelda, a bit similarly as Nayru's love works for Zelda.

Also about Pit's recovery: If he needs to use wings, he might want to come from down, because usually Din can't hit there or will send him into the ledge if it hits and in some stages he can sweetspot the ledge surprisingly fast/safely, although he's still in grave danger always when recovering.

If others say the match is even, I'm not going to deny that, but I seriously don't think it should be considered as Zelda's favor. Also, as boring as it is, recommended stage LM. The pillars turn the situation somewhat upside down by making Zelda the one to outcamp the other.

Spoiler

lol every recommended stage is either LM or BF

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda loves platforms, pit hates them. Zelda loves pillars, pit hates them. This matchup is more dependent on which stage you pick than anything else as the advantage shifts depending on stage.

 

[GodAtHand]

50-50 is it then? I agree to an extent, I just like to make sure that all possibilities are seen and considered at least when I actually have some knowledge of a match-up for once ^_^

 

[-Mars-]

Seeing as how this thread has been inactive for a few days, maybe we should make a topic for this on the Pit forums?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

let it be done.

 

[FzeroX]

okay first off I dont know what love jumping is ( will check it out after i post this, then edit maybe)

A good pit knows to where to aim his arrows. When you are recovering FW's hitbox does not protect the bottom or top of zelda and arrows can and will hit you out of it. Reflecting is virtually useless, pits will curve the arrows at the last second so the will fly off at an unthreatening angle, therefore resulting in a stalemate (which basically what this match is).

Another thing to note and watch out for is mirror shield gimps, you may not expect itbut pit can mirror FW, both beginning and ending (though the ending one isn't useful). It is absolutelly hilarious to see a zelda teleport into a blastzone.

Glair can clank with DF making it a semi-useful recovery tool. pit gets some distance and buys time (but it is definately a big step down from usual). Also pit gains a lot of aerial DI while holding out MS (I think) and can just drop down with that therefore nulling your DF (there is some chance that MS wont work and we are workking on figuring out why right now, so if it goes through it was a fluke). WoI (pits up b) has incredible aerial control it is unlikely you can hit him out of it.

I wouldn't say that Zelda is good at gimping pit I will say it is definately different, making it harder to deal with. And against an inexperianced pit you will definately be able to gimp him alot.

Now with that said I am going to go read up on love jumping (I think I know what it is) and then come back with more theory and more info for on stage gameplay.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Kat, love jump is extremely situational. It's hard to even rate it as a viable tactic.

 

[Coffee™]

Stages:
Luigi's mansion limits his aerial game and his projectile game as well. you force HIM to approach on mansion, but pit doesn't tend to get many vertical KOs, so the ceilings don't hurt him at all in that sense, while they DO hurt you. Still, this is obviously a good zelda stage.

Battlefield is also good, you can get vertical KOs like normal and the platforms do a lot to block pit's air-to-ground game and limits the versitility of his arrow game.

Zelda loves platforms, pit hates them. Zelda loves pillars, pit hates them. This matchup is more dependent on which stage you pick than anything else as the advantage shifts depending on stage.

Pit does not not hate platforms at all. You'd make Pits very happy if you counterpicked Battlefield as it is one of his best stages. Luigi's mansion isn't all that good of a counterpick either as even though it prevents Pit from fully abusing his recovery it doesn't do much else for you. Pit can pin you against the pillars with his multihit moves and can easily refresh his smash attacks against them. The mansion itself also stops one of the main advantages Zelda has over Pit and that is killing him at a lower percentage than he kills you.

In response to angel ring: If a Pit EVER uses angel ring Zelda can pretty much get in a free Dins. Just block, roll away and start Din's and aim it so it will only hit his feet

By this time Pit would have already recovered from using Angel Ring. The only way you're going to hit Pit with a Dins Fire after an Angel Ring is if he extends the Angel Ring, which isn't very likely.

And once he has to recover from a low angle.. he is pretty much
dead.

Keep in mind Pit can fly under most stages if he is forced to recover from a low angle and even if he can't fly under the stage then 3 jumps accompanied by air dodges surely means he won't be an easy target to hit.

As far as edgeguarding Zelda is concerned its really not too hard for a Pit to do. Love Jumps can be interrupted by Arrows as can FW at its startup. There is also the issue of Wing Refreshing that allows Pit to come after you using the aerial mobility of his up B and after attacking retain all of his midair jumps with which he can proceed to WOP you as well as another up B with which he can use to pressure you with or return to the stage. Put all that together with the fact that Zelda generally has poor aerial mobility then you can see its not to hard for Pit to take you out offstage.

Zelda trying to gimp Pit almost laughable to some extent. All she has against a recovering Pit is Dins Fire and although that has a fairly large hitbox it is entirely possible to avoid it through Gliding, Air dodging and using WOI to recover high in a Snake like fashion. Also keep in mind that a recovering Pit can fire Arrows at an opposing Zelda to stop Dins Fire spamming.

Ground game = Zelda's
Air game = Pits
Killing % = Zelda's
Camping = Pit's
Gimping = Zelda's

I would say 45-55 Zelda's favor at least. I definitely don't think this is a disadvantage. IMO.

I'll correct you here

Ground game = Pit's (Correct me if i'm wrong here but honestly all I see Zelda having over Pit here is the range of her Forward smash and the angle that her Dsmash sends you flying, aside from that I don't see what problems Pit has with her Ground game.)
Air game = Pits
Killing % = Zelda's
Camping = Pit's
Gimping = Pit's

This matchup is definitely in Pit's favor most likely a 60:40. Personally I've never found it too hard.