Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
he's demonstrating it on battlefeild, but he can do that anywhere... and you deserve to have it happen to you if you let yourself get caught in it.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED
- Thread starter RoyalBlood
- Start date
Lord Yawgmoth
Smash Apprentice
He can't do that anywhere,
certainly not FD.
And not Luigi's mansion. (aside from those tiny ones that appear)
He can do his infinite grab anywhere if you are stupid enough to get grabbed by him in the Exact position near the edge, but that is not what the thread is talking about.
The thread is talking about if he grabs someone when he is on a platform, that person cannot escape because they have limited rolling options. (near snake, near snake, near snake, or get shield-grabbed by snake.) And if we are talking both characters at their best, that is a free stock for snake if he Ever grabs you when you are on a platform.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I still would chose battlefield even WITH this possibility. if snake trys positioning himself with the express idea of doing this to you, it just makes it easier to connect with platform drop->dairs.
I never said the stage produced an advantage for Zelda, just that it was better than the alternatives. and I stand by that... though mansion isn't a bad stage at all for the matchup either.
Timbers
check me out
Sonic, just..be careful when you say that >_>. Battlefield is one of Snake's best stages. He can easily run circles around Zelda with nades and c4, and fresh utilt kills her at like 90 when on the bottom platforms. Snake can pressure the platforms much better than Zelda with combination of nairs, utilt, usmash, bair, c4, etc.
At least on most other stages, his camping is linear. On Battlefield he can trap you well while maintaining a safe distance.
At least on most other stages, his camping is linear. On Battlefield he can trap you well while maintaining a safe distance.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
I agree that Battlefield is still better than most others. I propably would choose it myself into this match simply because Zelda hates those little platforms against Snake anyway. Infinite sure doesn´t help, but Zelda would like to stay under Snake neverthless. If she can, she has much better offensive options and can avoid traps a lot easier.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
when snake's trapped above zelda, HE has a lot of problems hw wouldn't otherwise have as well. Also his linear camping is awful for zelda there's no doubt FD is better for him. At least he can't run away as far on battlefield.
Also a BIG problem for zelda is being hit when she lands with farore's... she has more landing locations on battlefield than most others... and is less punishable overall.
and its easier to get uair KOs here too... all in all it's one of zelda's best, if not THE best option for her against snake.
Lord Yawgmoth
Smash Apprentice
Haha, sorry about before, I wasn't trying to say battlefield was an awful choice, just wanted to put all the data out there.
I think the problem with snake is that he owns most stages like Zelda owns luigi's mansion.
I have often heard people say about snake:
No one can abuse XXXXXX like snake can.
XXXX=smashville, battlefield, etc.
You might be right about battlefield being the best choice though, lightning kicks are alot easier to land when he's on platforms, O.O but I would hate being on a platform with snake below me.
Personally, I would say luigi's, but battlefield is pretty solid too. I guess it is up to whatever you feel most confortable with.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
well the whole "pillars stop projectiles" thing pretty much backfires here since it makes his nades hard to reflect or grab, and their blast raidus is big enough to hit through the pillars.
Basically the survivability is the main benefit for luigi's. it's still a good choice. but not as good for zelda as it normally is.
generally speaking though, I'll take the easier snake kills (more likey to land LKs or Uair and more likely to KO with them on battlefield) over the extra survival on Luigi's... though both are good.
Even so.. the stage advantage isn't enough to swing the matchup in her favour.
Basically the survivability is the main benefit for luigi's. it's still a good choice. but not as good for zelda as it normally is.
generally speaking though, I'll take the easier snake kills (more likey to land LKs or Uair and more likely to KO with them on battlefield) over the extra survival on Luigi's... though both are good.
Even so.. the stage advantage isn't enough to swing the matchup in her favour.
Lord Yawgmoth
Smash Apprentice
I agree 100%
Timbers
check me out
Snake can nade counter a lot of attacks while on the platform. LKs are probably the only things that won't set the nade off.
Tradeoff being that Snake's usually punishable airgame becomes much better when an opponent is on platform, as JCd nairs become easy to land.
Just from experience, giving Snake less options to land is much more beneficial for most characters, but maybe Zelda's different. I'd imagine that setting up lingering hitboxes (usmash) would be good against a character with as bad an air game as Snake. I find it impossible to juggle Snake on battlefield, whereas it's easy in most cases.
And Snake actually can "run" further on battlefield than he could FD. FD you'd have a much easier time trapping him on the ledge. Battlefield he has a lot more options with c4 and nades.
I'm not doubting Zelda's capabilities here, but I do know what Snake can do here, and a character that's usually hurting for approach options might have an even harder time when Snake can zone so well on this stage.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
in short, if you get snake on a platform, you can poke with Uair or Usmash (he can't sheild the usmash either... nly yoshi can)
and it also makes him an easy target for unpunishable (or at least, less punishable) fairs, bairs or uairs.
and it also makes him an easy target for unpunishable (or at least, less punishable) fairs, bairs or uairs.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
I think the best thing to do now would be to vote about what stage should become recommended, since there seems to be two competing ones (BF and Luigi's) and one that's little less supported (Japes).
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
Between BF and LM I feel safer on Luigi's Mansion ;_; At least you get a chance to survive longer than Snake <.< Oh :o and in Japes Zelda can camp infinitely on 1 of the platform without risks to herself, unless a C4 is planted there but highly unprobable, you can just Din's Fire until he decides to approach and get hit by Zelda, just shield or reflect or dodge granades in the intervals of Din's, Nikita is too slow to reach Zelda before she reaches Snake ;3
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
sorry this is all wrong. Why? Zelda can't outcamp snake. She just can't. instead, SNAKE can just hang out on a side platform and zelda has very few ways to approach him. if zelda TRIES to camp on a platform he'll hammer her with nades and she can't really do anything about it. Shec an dodge them I guess... but she can't reciprocate at all. Zelda has to approach in this matchup and jungle japes makes it REALLY hard to approach.
If anything, this is a good stage for snake. Especially since zelda hates that water so much. What Royal says about it being harder to aproach zelda is true... but snake doesn't NEED to approach zelda and the stage makes it just as hard to approach snake... and Zelda NEEDS to approach snake. Also, thos side platforms are small, so I'm pretty sure any of those problems people say that you will have with snake's tech chase infite grab are just as able to be done on japes' side platforms.
I'm pretty sure japes has a high ceiling, but that';s about all zelda has to help her, and it helps snake too. I'd never pick this stage for snake personally.
Between battlefield and mansion. I chose battlefield. I find it easier to kill him there and I take that over luigi's making zelda harder to kill... but they are both good choices.
Mocha19
Smash Journeyman
I always just go with Battlefield. I do for most of my matches, but then again I think I just like that stage, but it is good for her.
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
gosh, it was just my opinion <.< It has worked for me ;3 to each their own ^-^
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
you posted it as if it were a fact not an opinion.
saying that zelda can infinitely camp is not an opinion.. that's a statement of fact... a fact that was incorrect <.< you can have the opinion that you like the stage, but make sure that you don't post untruths as support
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
;o Ok ^3^ sorryyou posted it as if it were a fact not an opinion.
saying that zelda can infinitely camp is not an opinion.. that's a statement of fact... a fact that was incorrect <.< you can have the opinion that you like the stage, but make sure that you don't post untruths as support
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
I personally vote BF as I've said before, so right now the situation is:
BF: 3
LG: 1
JJ: 1
I wasn't guite sure which one of JJ & LM Royal vote so I gave both one vote, they'll be needed to recount later anyway.
And about Zelda and camping: it isn't actually usefull, especially against Snake. As Sonic said, he can almost always outcamp Zelda, but even if he can't he can just keep dodging those Dins (it isn't hard, especially in wide stage like Japes) until Zelda approaches or use airdodges in to move somewhere where he has an advantage.
BF: 3
LG: 1
JJ: 1
I wasn't guite sure which one of JJ & LM Royal vote so I gave both one vote, they'll be needed to recount later anyway.
And about Zelda and camping: it isn't actually usefull, especially against Snake. As Sonic said, he can almost always outcamp Zelda, but even if he can't he can just keep dodging those Dins (it isn't hard, especially in wide stage like Japes) until Zelda approaches or use airdodges in to move somewhere where he has an advantage.
What if snake places c4 and mines on the two lower side platforms of BF. Surely that will limit Zelda to being in the centre of BF for the entire match? I havn't had a snake do this to me before, but I'm sure there are trap-happy snakes out there willing to control the field in this way.
And JJ is a no no, seriously! The ceiling is higher, Zelda can find it difficult if she lands in the water. The only great place for zelda here is the bottom of JJ with the top platform above her, but snake can just plant c4 and camp with grenades!
I would say LM, then BF, and in no way JJ.
And JJ is a no no, seriously! The ceiling is higher, Zelda can find it difficult if she lands in the water. The only great place for zelda here is the bottom of JJ with the top platform above her, but snake can just plant c4 and camp with grenades!
I would say LM, then BF, and in no way JJ.
Villi
Smash Lord
The center of BF is the place to be! Land mines are like nothing if you know where he put them. You can detonate them safely in a number of ways -- also on a platform, you can just up tilt them and suffer no harm because there's no hitbox below. Also, they don't explode unless you LAND on them or HIT them, so don't let them stop you from jumping through platforms, etc. If you know the spacing of his C-4 explosions you shouldn't be hit by them unless he forces you into the spot without enough time to react correctly. The rest of the match is just knowing his spacing and playing smarter than he does.
Ah I see, thanks villi.
Lord Yawgmoth
Smash Apprentice
I'd vote luigi's mansion,
obviously,
but I think the choice of those with more experience than me should perhaps count for more.
obviously,
but I think the choice of those with more experience than me should perhaps count for more.
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
I don´t think anyone´s going to vote anymore, so I counted the result:
BF: 3
LM: 3
or
BF: 3
LM: 2 (debending on which royal vote)
So it seems that the two stages are equally supported depending on the playstyle of the player.
BF: 3
LM: 3
or
BF: 3
LM: 2 (debending on which royal vote)
So it seems that the two stages are equally supported depending on the playstyle of the player.
Yay! No new information!
jetstar
Smash Rookie
taking marth down
great advice for zelda players like me for i subdue marth with some difficulty because i play with wii remote and nunchack where as my friend (marth player) has a gc pad so his mashes are a lot easier to do on me. he draws me close then lets me smash him but shields then does a punishment from the ground.
any advice?
great advice for zelda players like me for i subdue marth with some difficulty because i play with wii remote and nunchack where as my friend (marth player) has a gc pad so his mashes are a lot easier to do on me. he draws me close then lets me smash him but shields then does a punishment from the ground.
any advice?
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
D= The voting was done and Pit won <_< >_>
After Pit we'll go with Diddy ;3 Don't worry =D
@Half-Split Soul : I would vote LM but i don't want to continue an argument and if i did, we would get a tie >_<
Next Update to come ;3
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
Some misformat on the front page, too busy to fix right nao <_<
No worries =D
As for pit, Zelda may have trouble. A good Pit will camp with arrows and set up a blitz if possible to stop oncoming approaches. A blitz is like a rain of 3-4 arrows from above by looping them. He can bait Zelda's reflector by loading an arrow and simply waiting, or he can play mindgames by aiming the arrows around Zelda and not hitting her, making her feel overwhelmed. Couple this with Zelda's awful mobility and she'll have a hard time approaching.
She cannot use Din's effectively because of the speed and frequency of arrows, his two reflectors and the ending lag on din's itself. Therefore, he certainly outcamps. Din's will merely slow down the inevitability of an arrow hitting you =(
His smashes are fast, multi-hit and rack up damage. This can make them tricky to spotdodge and puts pressure on her sheild.
Zelda is not a lost cause in this match up however. She's perhaps one of the best edgeguarders against him. Din's will knock Pit out of his recovery and make him fall to his death. Pits will counter this by attempting to recover as much vertical distance FIRST than horizontal distance. Either that or hide under the lip of a stage and sweetspot the ledge. They may also glide to the other side if the stage lets them. They cannot be aggressive to Zelda in anyway when they are in this state, and Din's poses a huge threat to them.
As din's blasts pit upwards, he may still be able to grab the ledge. In this case Zelda can prepare a dair sweetspot or simply edgehog at the right time to gain invincibility frames.
Saving her DSmash is essential. Not only does it send Pit far out but also LOW. This coupled with din's will pose a major threat, and on the majority of cases din's will overwhelm pit and cause him to fall to his doooooooom. Also, Pit's recovery allows Zelda to target him with Uair and Dair will, if successful, should kill him at the right percents. XD
I personally think 50 : 50. Pit can outcamp and outspeed Zelda. But Zelda's knockback and edgeguarding against him neutralise this, particularly with DSmash and din's combined.
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
Doesn't Pit outrange Zelda too? I have trouble with his range sometimes.
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
I think it's the other way around o.o same with speed =O <---------- Needs confirmation ;3
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
With what attack does Zelda outrange Pit? o_o
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I feel the matchup is 50:50... so I guess I don't have muct to say about it.
You beat pit on the ground, he beats you in the air. He outcamps, you kill easier.
Spacing is ESSENTIAL in this matchup and most pits are bad at it vs. Zelda, so you have the upper hand.
but, personally, I like to play sheik against pit for the easier gimping and response to arrow camping, though I most often dual main against him. Either way, my zelda doesn't have as much experience against a good pit, so that's all I've got for now. maybe I'll put more later.
Stages:
Luigi's mansion limits his aerial game and his projectile game as well. you force HIM to approach on mansion, but pit doesn't tend to get many vertical KOs, so the ceilings don't hurt him at all in that sense, while they DO hurt you. Still, this is obviously a good zelda stage.
Battlefield is also good, you can get vertical KOs like normal and the platforms do a lot to block pit's air-to-ground game and limits the versitility of his arrow game.
All the same, I choose mansion, unless there's a stage that gimps pit more easily.
You beat pit on the ground, he beats you in the air. He outcamps, you kill easier.
Spacing is ESSENTIAL in this matchup and most pits are bad at it vs. Zelda, so you have the upper hand.
but, personally, I like to play sheik against pit for the easier gimping and response to arrow camping, though I most often dual main against him. Either way, my zelda doesn't have as much experience against a good pit, so that's all I've got for now. maybe I'll put more later.
Stages:
Luigi's mansion limits his aerial game and his projectile game as well. you force HIM to approach on mansion, but pit doesn't tend to get many vertical KOs, so the ceilings don't hurt him at all in that sense, while they DO hurt you. Still, this is obviously a good zelda stage.
Battlefield is also good, you can get vertical KOs like normal and the platforms do a lot to block pit's air-to-ground game and limits the versitility of his arrow game.
All the same, I choose mansion, unless there's a stage that gimps pit more easily.
Mansion is easily the best stage against Pit. SHeik probably gives him a little more trouble as she gets in his face easier while Zelda gets camped like no other. Using Sheik however gives him the priority advantage and the kill advantage, so I always dual in this matchup.
Another thing to point out. When they do their stupid arrow looping AT, it's mostly to force you to airdodge while they set up for the bair or fsmash. I usually just let the arrow hit me or DI away from Pit. Airdodging the arrow will probably set you up for trouble since they're primarily using the arrow loop to force you into a situation in the first place.
Another thing to point out. When they do their stupid arrow looping AT, it's mostly to force you to airdodge while they set up for the bair or fsmash. I usually just let the arrow hit me or DI away from Pit. Airdodging the arrow will probably set you up for trouble since they're primarily using the arrow loop to force you into a situation in the first place.
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
Hmmm...next time I fight a Pit I'll remember to use Fsmash more. Though I'd really like to see what a pit player has to say
You should always be using fsmash against most characters. A lot of the cast has multiple problems with simply usmash and fsmash.Hmmm...next time I fight a Pit I'll remember to use Fsmash more. Though I'd really like to see what a pit player has to say