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Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

RoyalBlood

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I played Forward's snake last weekend. I had the advantage the first stock of the first match. I think he underestimated me because I was a no-name. Anyway, I was doing exceptional. Excellent spacing, excellent precision and timing. and excellent decisions.... but then he started winning. see... all it takes is one or two mistakes and you're dead. Zelda has quite a bit that she can do to snake, but seriously she has to be near flawless... snake is allowed to make many many more mistakes with no fear of serious punishment... zelda makes one mistake and she'll take damage she couldn't afford or she'll die... it's that simple.

You say to space better, Royal, but zelda doesn't really have tools to space well against snake. he can reset spacing SO easily.

Zelda has to work a lot harder than snake in the matchup. Hence, it's his advantage.

We're actually discussing him in the Zelda/Sheik back room right now and we seem to think a dual front is completely necessary.



as for some nifty advice:

most snakes I've played LOVE mortarsliding to the edge if you are hanging.

if they do that, just ledge release -> rising fair them or ledgedrop -> uair them.

D: Ok :3 I'll just say some point that have worked for me, please be kind D= :

*You can force Snake to explode his explosives on himself =D
*Mines are easily detonated with Din's Fire or rolling over them, or use them to cover yourself from a mortar slide D= Although if you are going to detonate it, be aware that if Snake's close he can punish you badly :o
*Nayru's Love, Forward Smash and Jab all stop Mortar Slide, F-smash is more effective at higher percents when he will be afraid to do that to you, your dash attack is also good or shield everything altogether ;3
*Din's Fire is great at stopping grenades, it can stop 2 of them at once with its great hitbox, since Din's Fire not so good against other grounded moves or aerials, where it really shines its against other projectiles
*Most Snakes like to recover high to prevent gimps, once Snake it's off-stage Zelda has some great options, if he decides to drop a C4, chase him and U-air him, the lag of dropping it will make him unable to dodge if he's close to you, other option is Din's Fire, since Snake's aerials are slow to cancel Din's Fire (unlike Peach's Nair or Falco's Bair for example) he'll dodge, in which he'll fall right into a U-smash, Zelda can force this situation very easily
*If he was sent off-stage by D-smash, if you're using Din's try the tactic from above, or he'll dodge too early and will be unable to grab the ledge, forcing him to use a C4 IF he hasn't placed 1 on-stage, this is wonderful for Zelda where you can position yourself for a Dair =D although the upwards momentum from Snake may outrun you :o or in stages like Battlefield or Lylat cruise, if he has enough damage and tries to recover, he'll stage spike himself with the stage's bottom unless he techs D=
*You outrange his U-tilt and F-tilt with your F-smash, space yourself correctly
*Your D-smash clanks with his U-tilt (they like to use this move out of their shield, as you with D-smash) and they come at the same speed (maybe Zelda's come faster :o )
*When he is jabbing you, DI backwards so the third hit doesn't connect
*Don't use grabs too much, since you'll be using them a lot less in here he won't expect them when shielding ;o
*WOOT! D-tilt lock starts at 58% ;3 use it whenever possible so it gets more and more decayed so the lock will last longer
*Your three lightning kicks take him out of his recovery, if you aren't very confident when going for it, don't try to hit him, try to hit the ledge so --->> attemot to grab the ledge-->>stage spike ;3 (easire said then done >.>)
*Your Dair, Fair and Bair destroy the mortar, don't try to reflect it if you're close to him, you'll get an Up tilt in the face D=
*F-tilt is a great move here, it outranges some moves and has good KO power, not to mention it helps Zelda to string moves together, especially noticeable at low percents =D
*U-smash is a guaranteed 2-hit on Snake from 0%

As for Stages:

*Jungle Japes : Very High Ceiling, easy to punish Snake's recovery, most powerful moves (excluding F-smash) KO vertically ^_^ He's heavy so he'll have some trouble getting out of water, and he cannot risk dodging to avoid Din's, so when he's in the water Din's---->>>Free Damage so he dodges and dies or he gets damage and tries to recover, although Zelda has also trouble getting out of the water at the left side of the stage >.> and she also has powerful vertical killers that get taken out of account D=

Any others :confused: I feel like Jungle Japes is a good Zelda and a good Snake stage ;_;
Are my points valid :confused: D=

Please note that all of the info here has been tested ;3 but :o Will it always work?

Sorry if there are spelling mistakes >.<
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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some of that stuff is a lot less applicable in practice than it is in theory... but it's not really wrong per se.

as for stages. yeah... I've heard that jungle japes is bad for snake and luigi's is good for us. Battlefeild is even nice.... just not smashville or FD
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I dunno how good Zelda is on Mansion, but Snake is also really good there lol.
Zelda likes it.

It keeps foes from being able to dynamicaly approch in the air (not such an issue for snake since he shouldn't be doing this anyway).

The pillars stop most other projectiles but not din's. (too bad 'nades have a big blast radius)

The ceiling protects from vertical KOs and lets zelda do some nasty damage with Usmash, but leaves her Dsamsh completely untouched. (Snake will have a hard time killing as long as Zelda can tech, whereas her Dsamsh is just as effective as ever.)


I wouldn't be surprised if jungle japes was better, but mansion isn't bad.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Mansion is good for Zelda in almost any match =)

The high ceiling and mansion ceilings to tech on really cause Snake much more trouble than they do for Zelda. His U-tilt doesn´t kill nearly as easy as usually and his other killers can often be teched, while Zelda still keeps her lovely downsmash. U-smash also makes good damage when spammed inside the mansion.

I don´t know about Jungle Japes... Snake can force Zelda to approach there, and that´s not good. There´s also that nasty platform in the middle that he can use way more usefully than Zelda...
 

M@v

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The problem Zelda has here is she is meant to force approaching; that isnt happening here. If I EVER get stuck with matchup(I usually fight snake with either fox or falco) I go sheik, and try to rack up damage, especially with tilt lock, then transform to zelda to go for the kill. And If Im lucky enough to get him offstage with Zelda, I spam him like crazy. But Like I said, not too much experience in this matchup, so dont take what I say as law.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I had a long post I was going to make... but if we agree on 60:40... I guess I don't have to.
 

-Mars-

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I could be convinced otherwise........I would've liked to see your post Sonic:(
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I could be convinced otherwise........I would've liked to see your post Sonic:(
well I have it written on notebook paper. I'll have plenty of time tomorrow to write it out here.

but yeah... it says 60:40 snake anyways was my point.
 

Villi

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Guh, I dislike the Snake vs Zelda matchup a lot. It's one of those matches where I go Sheik and very hesitantly switch to Zelda. Snake can rack up damage pretty quickly on a Zelda at 0% and at mid-high percents, he can make it hell for her to get back in good spacing.

Zelda's pressure game is almost completely ineffective against Snake. She needs to play his game and punish hard. Learn the spacing of his ftilts and dacus, because you don't want to get caught in either of them. Dacus, you can punish with fsmashes or bairs where he will end up. Learn how to cook grenades (... 3 mississippi), and know when to send them back, shield them, or avoid them. Don't fall for c-4 tricks and stay out of their blast radius -- always be aware of where he puts them. Land mines, you can decide for yourself what to do with... try to use them to your advantage if you can. You can explode land mines by rolling over them, shielding, dairing over them, din's, or naryu's.

Personally, I think this matchup is closer to 70-30 for Snake. If he plays against Zelda like he would against anyone else, he does just fine, but if he actually knows what he's doing against Zelda she has it much worse.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Sorry buddy. Everyone hates snake though <_<

anyways, villi might be right. it might only be as bad as 65:35, but it's still bad :(
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I would rather fight marth than snake.

marth is easier to kill, can't kill you as easily and can't camp.
 

Kataefi

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I honestly don't think its 65:35 snake's advantage at all. I would agree on 60:40 because:

- lightning kicks are easier to land
- Traps can be exploded with dins, making snake just as vulnerable as Zelda.
- His recovery is a brilliant set up for Zelda's dair (low height), lightning kick (mid height), and Uair (high height). And if he drops grenades and c4 from high heights explode them with dins, and FW INTO him just before he lands, he won't expect it at all. But you need to be good with spacing.

Honestly, if you master spot dodging and get around snake's traps with dins he really isn't THAT hard. It's still definitely an uphill battle however, just nothing over 60:40 IMO.

Also, I've havn't tested this, but if you jump into a grenade (that's yet to explode), or some c4, if you use NL will it cause them to explode whilst you still retain invincibility? If this works, NL could be a very decent move, because it would allow Zelda to stay close to Snake's traps without fear of getting hurt via NL, whilst he will have to risk entering that territory getting exploded.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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I honestly don't think its 65:35 snake's advantage at all. I would agree on 60:40 because:

- lightning kicks are easier to land
- Traps can be exploded with dins, making snake just as vulnerable as Zelda.
- His recovery is a brilliant set up for Zelda's dair (low height), lightning kick (mid height), and Uair (high height). And if he drops grenades and c4 from high heights explode them with dins, and FW INTO him just before he lands, he won't expect it at all. But you need to be good with spacing.

Honestly, if you master spot dodging and get around snake's traps with dins he really isn't THAT hard. It's still definitely an uphill battle however, just nothing over 60:40 IMO.

Also, I've havn't tested this, but if you jump into a grenade (that's yet to explode), or some c4, if you use NL will it cause them to explode whilst you still retain invincibility? If this works, NL could be a very decent move, because it would allow Zelda to stay close to Snake's traps without fear of getting hurt via NL, whilst he will have to risk entering that territory getting exploded.
you can't detonate C4s with Din's... ever.

the thing with nades is a silly idea... you'll probably end up taking big hits from it
 

Lord Yawgmoth

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C4s and Grenades don't explode by proximity, Only his down smash does, and even then you might as well spot dodge (or Shield) instead of Nayru's (which would probably be punished if he isn't too far away.)

Nayru's will set off a grenade, but only after your invinsibility has worn off. (the attack animation comes out after the invincibility) You can also reflect the grenade with Nayru's if you time it right, but catching it and throwing it back is more productive if he hasn't cooked it.

^and the fact that you cant explode c4s is annoying : P
 

Kataefi

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I'd like to do Diddy Kong next actually. It's a tough battle!

you can't detonate C4s with Din's... ever.

the thing with nades is a silly idea... you'll probably end up taking big hits from it
Ah I see, I was under the impression it could. That's one mistake I've been doing in snake matches then. XD

Otherwise I'm still not convinced it's 65:35. I feel that snake's recovery certainly hinders and sets Zelda up for some potential kos, and also that Zelda (depending on the player)
, can just about outspace Snake and get in a few decent attacks.

And it really is all about the lightning kicks. Snake is an easy target for them. Take him to the air. I find he is bearable in the air. The only thing to watch out for is nair and bair however...
 

RoyalBlood

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65:35 is just wrong ;3 60:40 seems the most logical so I'll update with that, though 55:45 or even 50:50 seem Ok :o Oh well ^_^
>.> Hmm Diddy or Pit? hmm...you decide peoplez, Sonic, you already had your character proposal (MK) so we'll be giving opportunities to people who have not ^ unless they agree with you >.> <.<
Hurry up and decide ;3

Edit : >_> Stage for Snake, please discuss >.>
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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65:35 is just wrong ;3 60:40 seems the most logical so I'll update with that, though 55:45 or even 50:50 seem Ok :o Oh well ^_^
>.> Hmm Diddy or Pit? hmm...you decide peoplez, Sonic, you already had your character proposal (MK) so we'll be giving opportunities to people who have not ^ unless they agree with you >.> <.<
Hurry up and decide ;3

Edit : >_> Stage for Snake, please discuss >.>
absolutely no way. Snake is no easier than 60:40 his advantage. He's no worse than 70:30, there's absolutely no way this isn't his advantage.

Zelda negates nikita, true, but the BEST she can do against grenades is break even... and she has to have surgical precision to do that. Snake outcamps her completely and she has NO safe approaches against him. if he powersheilds her ANYTHING she'll get OoS utilted.

He's a big target for LKs, true, but snake doesn't fight int he air so the opportunity to land them is smaller than you gusy suggest ALSO, he weighs a freaking TONNE and won't even die from LKs until he's got decent damage... which is hard to give him.

His tilts outrprioritize or clash with anything you have. they also outspeed most of your attacks. the ONLY way you have the edge on these is if you are perfectly spaced at the tip of Fsmash range... but at that range snake can easily dash attack or mortarslide you to reset spacing and pop you up.

Snake might not be able to edgeguard you, but he can give you a HELL of a time ever regaining your footing on solid ground.

Also... snake needs to have about 150% damage for zelda to be able to KO him without a power attack she has hidden up her sleeve and luckily connects with. Wheras zelda can die in double digits... it's not the least bit abnormal either.

Zelda ONLY has the advantage when snake is off the edge or is in a compromising position in the air... otherwise snake holds the advantage.... he'll be in an advantaged position at least 90% of the match <_<

You can put whoever you want next. I was just making a suggestion.

As for stages... eh... battlefield is the least sucky. Mansion comes in second IMO... lylat can punish both of your recoveries... I just think it's a bigger risk for you than him... someone suggested jugle japes... I really can't imagine why.. maybe they could give a reason
 

RoyalBlood

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absolutely no way. Snake is no easier than 60:40 his advantage. He's no worse than 70:30, there's absolutely no way this isn't his advantage.

Zelda negates nikita, true, but the BEST she can do against grenades is break even... and she has to have surgical precision to do that. Snake outcamps her completely and she has NO safe approaches against him. if he powersheilds her ANYTHING she'll get OoS utilted.

He's a big target for LKs, true, but snake doesn't fight int he air so the opportunity to land them is smaller than you gusy suggest ALSO, he weighs a freaking TONNE and won't even die from LKs until he's got decent damage... which is hard to give him.

His tilts outrprioritize or clash with anything you have. they also outspeed most of your attacks. the ONLY way you have the edge on these is if you are perfectly spaced at the tip of Fsmash range... but at that range snake can easily dash attack or mortarslide you to reset spacing and pop you up.

Snake might not be able to edgeguard you, but he can give you a HELL of a time ever regaining your footing on solid ground.

Also... snake needs to have about 150% damage for zelda to be able to KO him without a power attack she has hidden up her sleeve and luckily connects with. Wheras zelda can die in double digits... it's not the least bit abnormal either.

Zelda ONLY has the advantage when snake is off the edge or is in a compromising position in the air... otherwise snake holds the advantage.... he'll be in an advantaged position at least 90% of the match <_<

You can put whoever you want next. I was just making a suggestion.

As for stages... eh... battlefield is the least sucky. Mansion comes in second IMO... lylat can punish both of your recoveries... I just think it's a bigger risk for you than him... someone suggested jugle japes... I really can't imagine why.. maybe they could give a reason

^_^ No need to get defensive Mr. ;3 I already said 60:40 was the most logical
The text wall was unnecesary and that i don't agree with you doesn't mean i'm completely wrong ^3^ The irony XD
And that your playstyle doesn't work against Snake is not Zelda's fault, you talk about powershield, so Zelda can also punish Snake is she powershields his attacks with D-smash, that outspeeds many of his attacks, clanks with them or come out at the same speed altogether ^^
And if a match-up is at the highest level of play Snake as someones said will be playing as he plays, Zelda won't have trouble LKing since we're talking about high level play and he's a big target ;D

hmmm....:

*Pit-3
*Diddy-1

The first to get 4 votes wins :3

Stages...Battlefield is very risky, C4 on platforms, mines on an already small stage, U-tilt through platforms >.> His Snake Dashing thingy covers all the stage ...... Not a very bad choice but not a very good one, I'd say neutral

Luigi's Mansion gives more survability to Snake >.> And hides mines and C4 quite well, but it blocks his projectiles so????

Lylat Cruise is no good either, his recovery doesn't get that handicapped, hides C4 and mines extremely well >.> Snake dashing covers all the stage and platforms also aid his tilt, aerials and the U-smash, Zelda's pros here are the platforms when Snake is above her >.>

I suggested Jungle Japes ;3 go back like 1 or 2 pages to see why i did it =D
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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^_^ No need to get defensive Mr. ;3 I already said 60:40 was the most logical
The text wall was unnecesary and that i don't agree with you doesn't mean i'm completely wrong ^3^ The irony XD
And that your playstyle doesn't work against Snake is not Zelda's fault, you talk about powershield, so Zelda can also punish Snake is she powershields his attacks with D-smash, that outspeeds many of his attacks, clanks with them or come out at the same speed altogether ^^
And if a match-up is at the highest level of play Snake as someones said will be playing as he plays, Zelda won't have trouble LKing since we're talking about high level play and he's a big target ;D

hmmm....:

*Pit-3
*Diddy-1

The first to get 4 votes wins :3

Stages...Battlefield is very risky, C4 on platforms, mines on an already small stage, U-tilt through platforms >.> His Snake Dashing thingy covers all the stage ...... Not a very bad choice but not a very good one, I'd say neutral

Luigi's Mansion gives more survability to Snake >.> And hides mines and C4 quite well, but it blocks his projectiles so????

Lylat Cruise is no good either, his recovery doesn't get that handicapped, hides C4 and mines extremely well >.> Snake dashing covers all the stage and platforms also aid his tilt, aerials and the U-smash, Zelda's pros here are the platforms when Snake is above her >.>

I suggested Jungle Japes ;3 go back like 1 or 2 pages to see why i did it =D
that is wrong. Utilt after sheilding >>> Zelda's Dsmash after sheilding.
Why? Simple:
-Snake's attacks leave him far enough away from you if you sheild himt hat you CAN'T dsmash him out of sheild for most of those attacks.
-Zelda's Dsmash is a LOT more punishable itself than snake's utilt is.
-Zelda's Dsmash doesn't kill near as well as snake's utilt anyway.
-Zelda's attacks leave her prone if sheilded... much moreso than snake's do
-Zelda's the one who has to approach... she'll be the one hitting snake's sheild <_< not vice versa.

C4s on platforms are no worse than C4s on the main stage. In fact... it gives you more safe places to land.... battlefield is one of the better stages for you.

Luigi's also increases Zelda's survivability. it protects from snake's utilt, but leaves him prone to your dsmash.

Lylat is mutually bad... probably worse for zelda, but if you know that the snake you are playing hates it too, maybe it's worth it.

Zelda hates the water in jungle japes SOOO much.. and snake can camp on a side platform forever...

good luck landing LKs reliably against snake. it's not impossible or even unlikely... but it's never easy.

You are severely underestimating him... severely.

(oh and I'll just make it over and vote pit)
 

RoyalBlood

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that is wrong. Utilt after sheilding >>> Zelda's Dsmash after sheilding.
Why? Simple:
-Snake's attacks leave him far enough away from you if you sheild himt hat you CAN'T dsmash him out of sheild for most of those attacks.
-Zelda's Dsmash is a LOT more punishable itself than snake's utilt is.
-Zelda's Dsmash doesn't kill near as well as snake's utilt anyway.
-Zelda's attacks leave her prone if sheilded... much moreso than snake's do
-Zelda's the one who has to approach... she'll be the one hitting snake's sheild <_< not vice versa.

C4s on platforms are no worse than C4s on the main stage. In fact... it gives you more safe places to land.... battlefield is one of the better stages for you.

Luigi's also increases Zelda's survivability. it protects from snake's utilt, but leaves him prone to your dsmash.

Lylat is mutually bad... probably worse for zelda, but if you know that the snake you are playing hates it too, maybe it's worth it.

Zelda hates the water in jungle japes SOOO much.. and snake can camp on a side platform forever...

good luck landing LKs reliably against snake. it's not impossible or even unlikely... but it's never easy.

You are severely underestimating him... severely.

(oh and I'll just make it over and vote pit)
1) I said PS :o maybe with better spacing to prevet grabs? but since i didn't include that earlier you're right ^^
2)No, C4 on platforms limit you severly, especially with another mine and Snake waiting on the main stage
3)Yes, i never saud she didn't, but Snake's survability is better than Zelda's and don't forget Snake can KO horizontally too
4)Snake also do, he's heavy so water+Snake= Free Din's Fire damage, about camping can't you just use Din's, Nayru's your jump or the water?<-----a question, not an afirmation ;3
5)Won't have trouble = can land on a regular basis at high level, not = will be LKing like crazy
6) No, I'm not. I've played very good Snakes, i think top ones too ;3 I'm pretty aware of what can he do.I already said like 10 times that i test my statements Ok? not "match-up on paper"
7) So that makes Pit 4 ;3 Updating in a little while
 

TigerWoods

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Wow I'm back(been busy for awhile)

ANYWAY

I'm a peach main so I really like jungle japes, and Zelda can do alot of nifty things with fayors wind there too; auto sweet spot games with the platforms and Ledge Warping trixies... now I really haven't found much use for these(besides that they look cool) but maby they have a hidden use(look into probably?)

Uairs through the platforms are also great, as long as your confident swimming...
 

Villi

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At high levels of play, meaning equal skill and matchup knowledge, Snake has no trouble zoning Zelda so that she is the majority of the time not in advantageous enough position to land a lightning kick.

Snake outmobilizes, out ranges, and outcamps Zelda on the ground. Falling lightning kicks can be outranged with up tilts. He doesn't need to shield them. Grounded approaches can be intercepted with forward tilts or bairs. Down smash out of shield doesn't have enough range to punish most of his attacks because of their pushback -- he would have to react pretty slow or space pretty poorly for you to be in that range after he attacks your shield.

Zelda has to trick him and capitalize on mistakes until she can get him airborne. That's difficult and risky -- more difficult than 60:40. Even if she does get him in the air, he has options like his cypher to escape traps and grenade dropping to trade damage if she actually does manage to catch him with an up smash. An attack that does equal damage to Snake as it does to Zelda puts Snake at the advantage because of his weight.

He has the option to avoid situations where he can be punished by Zelda while still administering pressure and doing damage with tilts, jabs, c-4s, grenades, bairs, and dacus/dash attack. And let's not forget all the traps he can set when he gets Zelda in the air.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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1) I said PS :o maybe with better spacing to prevet grabs? but since i didn't include that earlier you're right ^^
2)No, C4 on platforms limit you severly, especially with another mine and Snake waiting on the main stage
3)Yes, i never saud she didn't, but Snake's survability is better than Zelda's and don't forget Snake can KO horizontally too
4)Snake also do, he's heavy so water+Snake= Free Din's Fire damage, about camping can't you just use Din's, Nayru's your jump or the water?<-----a question, not an afirmation ;3
5)Won't have trouble = can land on a regular basis at high level, not = will be LKing like crazy
6) No, I'm not. I've played very good Snakes, i think top ones too ;3 I'm pretty aware of what can he do.I already said like 10 times that i test my statements Ok? not "match-up on paper"
7) So that makes Pit 4 ;3 Updating in a little while
1)Zelda has trouble grabbing him OoS too because she has a long grab animation and his attacks push him out of grab range.
2) C4 on platforms limit you... but so do C4s on the stage. now if it were a moving platform like smashville I'd say, yeah, it's worse, but since it's stationary, I'd say, it might be bad, but it's no worse than stages like Final Destination (where snake can camp like crazy) or smashville (which snake can abuse.)
3) Luigi's helps both of them survive until high damages... Zelda needs this more than snake... oh and it kinda hampers nades. C4 hiding shouldn't be an issue. keep your eye on snake... no reason not to.
4) snake outcamps din's normally... it's no harder for him to continue doing on japes... and how could you use water?
5) never said you would. I've just seen snakes get eaten by the tilting stage often enough... oh and it's got a high ceiling... still.. I think it's a bad zelda stage.
6) I don't doubt you've played snakes. I doubt you've played top ones and still find the match 60:40.
 

Kataefi

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1)Zelda has trouble grabbing him OoS too because she has a long grab animation and his attacks push him out of grab range.
2) C4 on platforms limit you... but so do C4s on the stage. now if it were a moving platform like smashville I'd say, yeah, it's worse, but since it's stationary, I'd say, it might be bad, but it's no worse than stages like Final Destination (where snake can camp like crazy) or smashville (which snake can abuse.)
3) Luigi's helps both of them survive until high damages... Zelda needs this more than snake... oh and it kinda hampers nades. C4 hiding shouldn't be an issue. keep your eye on snake... no reason not to.
4) snake outcamps din's normally... it's no harder for him to continue doing on japes... and how could you use water?
5) never said you would. I've just seen snakes get eaten by the tilting stage often enough... oh and it's got a high ceiling... still.. I think it's a bad zelda stage.
6) I don't doubt you've played snakes. I doubt you've played top ones and still find the match 60:40.
But at high levels of play a very good zelda will be paying lots of attention to the traps and work her way around them. If she's good at spacing, snake will be at a risk also from his own traps also. At equal skill, yes snake will be landing some hits, but LKs hit harder, stronger, and if Zelda's getting them consistently, then she will be at no more of a disadvantage than 60:40. And that's without Usmash, Uair and other insane moves that she can potentially catch snake in from his recovery.

A mindless Zelda will be running around, running into traps. If she walks around and plays a mixture of defense and offense dependant on the situation, Snake will need to be careful. Plus snake's recovery is a total minus for him also XD

Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but at local tournies here I've faced a lot of snakes and never had THAT MUCH of a problem (though still an upward struggle). Diddy kong for me is far far worse!
 
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