Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[makoforce]

Can some one explain the D3, Fox, Pikachu, sheik, and MK mu? please

 

[C.J.]

D3- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=311118

Fox- Fox is hard to grab when he wants to be because he is quite fast so don't try to get the grab **** on him @ 0. Dthrow (fresh)-> tipper fsmash works till ~13% so if you tipper fair/DS/partial DB him and then get a grab you still get a tipper fsmash off. SDI his fair straight down- it's super easy- and punish w/ uair/usmash. Don't whiff SHFF fair. You'll get usmashed. SDI his dair or get combo'd forever. Juggling him can be hard since he can reset his FF and stall with shine so I'd focus more on landing traps. His illusion (sideB) is slower than Falco's phantasm so ledge trapping him should be pretty easy. Ban Halberd/FD. Go to Castle Siege/BF (CS is better though).

Pikachu- Stay the hell on the ground. Go watch Kadaj vs Esam or Nike vs Kprime. Unless they get read really well, the only time they take damage is when they jump/land. As long as they're on the ground they ****. Now, that's not to say that you should NEVER jump (despite it sounding like that >_> ), but when you do be VERY careful about it. Know that QA makes Pika's hurtbox bigger so punish him for trying to get onstage with that. Dtilt is awesome unless they're already running into you; then you'll get grabbed. Don't momentum cancel Pika's vertical kill moves unless you HAVE to do it or die. If you MC unnecessarily prepare to get thundered. Marth can DS out of Pika's fthrow->usmash until 10% but be careful doing it as if you get baited you will get fthrow->fsmashed (guaranteed that time). Ledge traps are really strong vs Pika. Grab and DB are just really strong in this MU.

Sheik- Be careful landing if she has needles charged. Watch out ADing to land due to the threat of DACUS. She has ZERO ledge game. If you get her on the ledge just play really patient and keep her there. Fthrow->fthrow-> dair being a kill is a guessing game. She can DJ->immediate chain to survive but you can footstool her after she DJs. If she tries to Vanish to recover... she dies by just grabbing teh ledge. However instead of a hard guessing game (assuming a really good sheik) Fthrowx2->fsmash puts her offstage, then the ledge where you can just ledge trap her for days. SDI her ftilt into her and if she utilts you can DS after the first hit of her utilt before the second comes out. Really all you have to do in this MU is just be really patient and careful and she'll struggle to kill you. Also, if you're >100% it's possible to time your ledge get-up (vs vanish) so that she won't grab the ledge at the beginning of the move and so she can't aim at the ledge to grab it after she disappears and is forced to go onstage with Vanish. Actually, whenever sheik is recovering in general, you want to be on the ledge since that prevents her from using her chain to recover.

MK- ....this is one of the most complex MUs in the game... Stay on the ground, recover low, get grabs/grab releases, you outdisjoint him but he outranges you. Know exactly which move of yours punishes every move of his and the spacing to do it. It's just one you have to play non-stop in order to understand. Watch vids of Mike and Ramin and ask specific questions about it. It's too difficult (read: time consuming) to just talk about the MU in general.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Tips for insta leveling up witb marth? Like important stuff that I can apply to my (pocket marth to make him seem less so?

 

[C.J.]

There is no way to "insta level up"
-_-

Marth is pretty much just pure skill. He will take you as far as you deserve. You just need to put in the work to get better.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I know that im asking for general info like: db is a good oos option, etc etc. General info+strats.

 

[ScareMl]

I agree with CJ. Marth is not Falco or Mk who any noob can play at a mediocre level. First off, know how to space. learn and get a feel for his aerials and f-smash and DB. DB is an ok oos option to rack up damage or if your other moves are stale. if your opponent is at high %, use DB oos. at low percents (0%) grab to aerial or f-smash is pretty much guaranteed on everyone except lucario maybe. lastly, make sure that you walk. don't try to be all fancy by dashing around, you'll must mess up more. marth's walk compliments a lot of his game, it's really really effective as he has the fastest walk in the game besides fox. Again, learn how to space your attacks, and use lots of fair and uair don't use bair or dair as much cuz they're laggy. hope that helped.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I agree with CJ. Marth is not Falco or Mk who any noob can play at a mediocre level. First off, know how to space. learn and get a feel for his aerials and f-smash and DB. DB is an ok oos option to rack up damage or if your other moves are stale. if your opponent is at high %, use DB oos. at low percents (0%) grab to aerial or f-smash is pretty much guaranteed on everyone except lucario maybe. lastly, make sure that you walk. don't try to be all fancy by dashing around, you'll must mess up more. marth's walk compliments a lot of his game, it's really really effective as he has the fastest walk in the game besides fox. Again, learn how to space your attacks, and use lots of fair and uair don't use bair or dair as much cuz they're laggy. hope that helped.

That's what I was thinking about actually, walking more. And I use rising bair a lot should I cut that out? I understand Marth at the basic level, lotsa fair, pivot grab, make people hate their lives on the ledge, etc etc

I just want some of those tips that make it so I can start to transition into actually using him as a reliable secondary.

 

[Capuchon]

I'm new, and i wonder where i can get the discussion of the MUs =3.

 

[Rave925]

Yes, you should find it as one of the main threads on the marth character discussion.

I also have a question. I was looking at Mr.R playing in a few matches where he will do a short hop and he will get a boost from his SB but face the other direction fast. I would say it's a reverse SB, but he gets a boost the opposite direction. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

[ScareMl]

That's what I was thinking about actually, walking more. And I use rising bair a lot should I cut that out? I understand Marth at the basic level, lotsa fair, pivot grab, make people hate their lives on the ledge, etc etc

I just want some of those tips that make it so I can start to transition into actually using him as a reliable secondary.

ok learn to space. that is the key. as for rising bair, i wouldn't recommend it all the time rising fair's a lot safer but if you want to change things up a bit, yes you can do rising bair but try to make it full hop retreating rising bair, it's safer.

 

[HFlash]

I have been watching some vids of Mr.R and Leon and was wondering how good Marth such as these are able to charge their Shield Breakers in the air while moving forward/backward? As in, they do a forward jump, charge their attack, and sort of slide backwards while they are charging?

 

[Jeos]

^ well, that is a b-reversed SB, that's how you change your momentum and face the other way at the same time

 

[Capuchon]

What we have on Yoshi to set % ?

 

[HFlash]

^ well, that is a b-reversed SB, that's how you change your momentum and face the other way at the same time

Ok how do you do that? just DI back while holding B? Kind of like as if using nair?

 

[Jeos]

Ok how do you do that? just DI back while holding B? Kind of like as if using nair?

No, you have to press the control stick in the opposite direction you're facing within 4 frames (I don't remember the exact frames but I'm sure that must be 4 or less) AFTER pressing the B button or doing other special attack, you can b-reversal every special move with marth at least.

 

[C.J.]

Everything you need to know about how to do weird things with special moves:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13424569&postcount=8713

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'm starting liking this Autocancelled Nair first hit into stuff.
What moves are good followups?

 

[Reizilla]

Grab/jab/smash is what I like to use. Usually jab into grab/db/fsmash.

 

[Jeos]

also, first hit Nair to Utilt for an easy kill

 

[Shaya]

I like first hit nair into shieldbreaker because people like to shield.

 

[AlanHaTe]

hi there marth people

hope you can help me with this...

where should I SDI dancing blade to avoid getting hit by all the hits in the diff. variations or get the least damage possible?

and I heard dancing blade's 3rd hit has some ending lag making it possible to punish(in case I'm shielding), how many frames of lag does it have so I can know if I can punish or not...

 

[ScareMl]

I like first hit nair into shieldbreaker because people like to shield.

do you break their shield often? cuz opponents tend to have full shields and you can end up getting punished for that

 

[eveningninja]

Can someone shed some light on Marth's Dair-spikes for me? Every time I try to Spike someone off the ledge, I end up Dairing to death because the attack seems to take so long that by the time I can jump again I'm too low to recover back to the stage. Can you only Dair immediately after jumping (while still rising) or something?

Thanks.

I'm starting liking this Autocancelled Nair first hit into stuff.
What moves are good followups?

As a noob, I have no idea how to first hit auto-cancel Nair. Can anyone explain this?

 

[C.J.]

Can someone shed some light on Marth's Dair-spikes for me? Every time I try to Spike someone off the ledge, I end up Dairing to death because the attack seems to take so long that by the time I can jump again I'm too low to recover back to the stage. Can you only Dair immediately after jumping (while still rising) or something?

Thanks.

Are you hitting the C-stick down? Then you're FF dairing and yes that will kill you around stage level. You can slowfall dair or rising dair if you want to live from around that height.



As a noob, I have no idea how to first hit auto-cancel Nair. Can anyone explain this?

Land after the first hit of nair before the second hit comes out.

 

[eveningninja]

Are you hitting the C-stick down? Then you're FF dairing and yes that will kill you around stage level. You can slowfall dair or rising dair if you want to live from around that height.

I thought C-stick down was the only way to Dair without fast falling. What would the command input be to slow fall Dair or rising Dair?

Land after the first hit of nair before the second hit comes out.

So should I just be timing it so that I naturally land before the second hit of Nair comes out or should I FF Nair in order to cancel it?


Thanks!

 

[C.J.]

If you have your C-stick set to smash, it's a macro input for: Hit down and A at the same time. So, you'll FF.

If it's set to attack it's a macro for: Tilt down and press A. So you won't.

If you don't want to FF dair, tilt the analog stick down and press A. Rising dair, you jump then hit down on the C-stick while you're still going up.


And for 1st hit nair, don't try for it, if it happens awesome. Fishing for it will get you *****. But either or works.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I thought C-stick down was the only way to Dair without fast falling. What would the command input be to slow fall Dair or rising Dair?

For slow fall, press the stick softly downwards.
For rising, press jump, then the attack input.

So should I just be timing it so that I naturally land before the second hit of Nair comes out or should I FF Nair in order to cancel it?


Thanks!

Any of them, both works

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

What's the best thing to do about Peach's turnips? Is it better to swat them, jump and avoid them, dodge them, shield them , or what? Also, is there any good way to punish pulling/throwing turnips?

 

[C.J.]

There's no "best thing." It's all about mix-ups, distance between the two of you, who's winning (how much), etc etc. No I won't make a flowchart, you'll have to figure specifics out on your own. DB is your best bet of punishing the pulling out of a turnip.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309846

Scroll down to where it says "Banana tricks"
It's actually item tricks. They all apply to turnips as well. So are significantly less useful vs peach (ala Z-drop fair zoning since she can pull out infinite turnips while Diddy can only have the two out at a time). Figure out when each option is best for you.

 

[eveningninja]

If you have your C-stick set to smash, it's a macro input for: Hit down and A at the same time. So, you'll FF.

If it's set to attack it's a macro for: Tilt down and press A. So you won't.

If you don't want to FF dair, tilt the analog stick down and press A. Rising dair, you jump then hit down on the C-stick while you're still going up.

For slow fall, press the stick softly downwards.
For rising, press jump, then the attack input.

So, for some reason I can't seem to ever survive my Dair if I don't do a Rising Dair. Essentially, it seems no different at all attempting to do a softly-pressed (tilted) Dair rather than a FF Dair. My character seems to fall at the same exact speed regardless, only difference is whether I do a rising Dair or not. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[C.J.]

Yes. You're hitting down too hard. Stand on stage and dtilt. Did you crouch first? Then you're hitting it too far down/hard. Did you dtilt w/o crouching? Then you did it right. Now apply that exact same thing to dairing offstage.

Here's the difference in speeds.
Run offstage and once you're offstage smash down on that analog stick immediately. This is you FFing and this is the speed you're currently falling since you're dying.
Run offstage and just let yourself fall. Don't hit anything, just let yourself fall. This is the speed you WANT to go at for a non-FF'd dair (where you tilt the stick)

 

[eveningninja]

Using the C-stick? (set to Smash) Or will it only work using Down + A?

Thanks.

 

[C.J.]

If you have your C-stick set to smash, it's a macro input for: Hit down and A at the same time. So, you'll FF.

Don't touch the cstick. C-stick is bad and wrong for what you are trying to do.

 

[PEACE7]

What's the best thing to do about Peach's turnips? Is it better to swat them, jump and avoid them, dodge them, shield them , or what? Also, is there any good way to punish pulling/throwing turnips?

Catch them and use them to your advantage.
You can catch them with Z, airdodge, fastfell nair and fair.
If she pulls out a mr.saturn don't hold your shield just tap it on reaction to avoid the chance of getting shieldbroken.
Mr. saturn has the same shield sapping power as our shieldbreaker.
If you catch the mr.saturn you can glidetoss to shieldbreaker for a strong chance of breaking your opponents shield if they have it out.
If you catch a beamsword use fsmash real quick, because when you originally first get it its weak and has very little range by fsmashing once all that changes.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

Catch them and use them to your advantage.
You can catch them with Z, airdodge, fastfell nair and fair.
If she pulls out a mr.saturn don't hold your shield just tap it on reaction to avoid the chance of getting shieldbroken.
Mr. saturn has the same shield sapping power as our shieldbreaker.
If you catch the mr.saturn you can glidetoss to shieldbreaker for a strong chance of breaking your opponents shield if they have it out.
If you catch a beamsword use fsmash real quick, because when you originally first get it its weak and has very little range by fsmashing once all that changes.

I've always learned that if a character can pull their own items, chances are the player who has to practice with their items will be better at using them than I am with my Marth. =/ But thanks, I hadn't thought of glide tossing a caught Mr. Saturn for shield pressure. And can't the beam sword thing also be fixed by dropping and picking it up again? Because if so, then wouldn't it be better to just air drop then recatch with a fair or something?

 

[C.J.]

............
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13675984&postcount=8789

And you personally being worse with items than your opponent is you being lazy. Practice things in the guide I linked to in the above link.

 

[PEACE7]

Exactly what C.j said its all about practice.
And no I don't think it works that way for the beam sword.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

@CJ ... why didn't I think of it like that? XP I guess I'll go work on item play then. I've read that guide before though.

@Peace - I know if Peach pulls a beam sword, it start all weird and short ranged, and I know for a fact Peach can return the sword to normal by dropping and picking it back up. I assumed you were referring to that, but if not, then what do you mean?

 

[PEACE7]

If your talking about returning it to normal i have no idea haven't really tried it. All I'm saying is fsmash once and the sword will have more range and more power.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

... I'll have to test what does what after a beam sword pull at some point. But thanks for the tips! Maybe I'll be able to take a game off Nicole when I see her next. =D Bet she doesn't remember me though... =P