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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
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Roxas M
Smash Master
Well, if I wanted to go metaknight, I wouldn't exactly be asking how do other people deal with it as marth, lol
It's more mentally draining than anything. I was just wondering if any other marths have to play the same thing, and how they deal with it.
It's more mentally draining than anything. I was just wondering if any other marths have to play the same thing, and how they deal with it.
ぱみゅ
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Once again, not only Marths, but every non-extremely campy (and/or without a decent projectyle) character has to deal with it.
Roxas M
Smash Master
Telling me that everyone has to deal with it, but not telling me how to deal with it doesn't exactly help. I am familiar with the fact that everyone has to deal with it, I just don't know how to counter it at my current skill level. I mention marth specifically because..this is the marth boards and he is the character that I use.
I used to practise time out matches, it was the only way I played the game outside of tournament for like 5-6 months (I've been mostly out of practise since I stopped this hard *** training), and I was extremely enthusiastically enjoying the game training in such a way, as was my mate (who knew?). You always try to play for 8 minutes, the person losing is approaching, but doing it at a a safe pace. I played dedede against pikachu like this in probably 2-300 matches. For the tournaments I went to and in friendlies against others (this 'training' was all with one person for 90% of the time) around that time and after I was able to play at whatever pace my opponent's could muster. 9ish months or so out of practise later I lose in tournament to Link and was frustrated at my impatience, so for me personally, it's something you need to keep up with.
Tournament sets never ended in time outs with me involved (but quite a few were less than 10 seconds), as Marth I could handle camping from the lamest of projectile spammers (try doing it as dedede, LOL, Marth is easy), and it was around the time I realised the amazingness of footstooling as the penultimate defensive tactic that reduces his primary weakness considerably in about 80% of his match ups. By 'could handle' it meant that I stood on the other side of the stage for however long the enemy wanted to throw **** at me with no result, people usually gave up if you're completely stern/brick house about it.
If you don't have a dedicated training partner it's a bit of a tough spot, but CPUs can kinda be okay for that. Either way, play the gayest match ups in the universe.
My names Fox and you're pikachu, get at me - I'm on 1 stock and 50% and you're at 3 and low percent BUT YOUR CGS NOT WORKING ANY MORE and there's still 6 minutes on the clock, I GOT THIS
Dedede, cg'd to 100% and pikachu's on 0% and it's pokemon stadium, 7.30 to bring back the lead. THIS IS ****ING GAY BUT I DID IT A BILLION TIMES ANYWAY
Then you play characters such as Dedede in 'lol' match ups like Falco, ICs, Pikachu in tournament or friendlies and you are likely able to pull off victories with the patience required (I maintain that Dedede can handle those 3 match ups on at least one starter stage, that doesn't change how hard the match up are in blind pick / smart opponent striking), to the point that you have to vehemently (but with few words) argue with people who are like "Pika vs Dedede is not that bad of a match up for dedede", "no, it really isn't", "IT TOTALLY IS MAN YOU WON" "no, you should have won", "BUT YOU'RE SO HARD TO APPROACH" "why are you in the situation you're approaching in the first place?" "RUGHHH"
My 'gaying' my training partner usually involved playing Meta Knight on Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise or Smashville. In fact any time someone picked the former two stages against me in tournament I would MK because I was so well practised with it in MULTIPLE match ups (upwards slanted platform positions in both YI and LC are extremely gay positions to approach an MK on, especially as he can usually then jump twice and start up a glide with complete safety to reposition; Smashville is just platform camping + glide stalling). 7 ledge grabs and a time out - easy peasy. Bring it on falco, pikachu, pokemon trainer or sonic.
Tournament sets never ended in time outs with me involved (but quite a few were less than 10 seconds), as Marth I could handle camping from the lamest of projectile spammers (try doing it as dedede, LOL, Marth is easy), and it was around the time I realised the amazingness of footstooling as the penultimate defensive tactic that reduces his primary weakness considerably in about 80% of his match ups. By 'could handle' it meant that I stood on the other side of the stage for however long the enemy wanted to throw **** at me with no result, people usually gave up if you're completely stern/brick house about it.
If you don't have a dedicated training partner it's a bit of a tough spot, but CPUs can kinda be okay for that. Either way, play the gayest match ups in the universe.
My names Fox and you're pikachu, get at me - I'm on 1 stock and 50% and you're at 3 and low percent BUT YOUR CGS NOT WORKING ANY MORE and there's still 6 minutes on the clock, I GOT THIS
Dedede, cg'd to 100% and pikachu's on 0% and it's pokemon stadium, 7.30 to bring back the lead. THIS IS ****ING GAY BUT I DID IT A BILLION TIMES ANYWAY
Then you play characters such as Dedede in 'lol' match ups like Falco, ICs, Pikachu in tournament or friendlies and you are likely able to pull off victories with the patience required (I maintain that Dedede can handle those 3 match ups on at least one starter stage, that doesn't change how hard the match up are in blind pick / smart opponent striking), to the point that you have to vehemently (but with few words) argue with people who are like "Pika vs Dedede is not that bad of a match up for dedede", "no, it really isn't", "IT TOTALLY IS MAN YOU WON" "no, you should have won", "BUT YOU'RE SO HARD TO APPROACH" "why are you in the situation you're approaching in the first place?" "RUGHHH"
My 'gaying' my training partner usually involved playing Meta Knight on Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise or Smashville. In fact any time someone picked the former two stages against me in tournament I would MK because I was so well practised with it in MULTIPLE match ups (upwards slanted platform positions in both YI and LC are extremely gay positions to approach an MK on, especially as he can usually then jump twice and start up a glide with complete safety to reposition; Smashville is just platform camping + glide stalling). 7 ledge grabs and a time out - easy peasy. Bring it on falco, pikachu, pokemon trainer or sonic.
Nike.
Smash Hero
The only time I'm ever in a situation like that is if it's an even MU against someone who has alot of range, like DK or ROB, and we're doing the spacing game (like looking for the opponent to use a specific tilt or something).
It could be because your mental flowchart is causing you to only look for certain openings or punish certain moves/habits from the opponent.
EX: Marth vs Lucario. He's playing the keep away game with Aura Spheres and Fsmashes. Marth's nair can beat Lucario's fsmash, but it requires a full committment approach. If you screwed up or Lucario read it, you eat an Aura Sphere. So it turns into a giant space/keepaway/camp game because your so focused on punishing his R/P/S movepool. The flowchart that you've trained yourself to follow is keeping you from doing anything else mentally.
orrrrrrrr
I go through this phase when I'm one stock from losing the set, and my percent is pretty high. Everything in the set becomes magnified and the amount of focus I'm putting out dramatically increases.
Sounds like your playing Marth (or the matchup) correctly, but your not prepared/willing for the insuing campfest. Unfortunately, this is a drawback for maining Marth. I'd be willing to bet that you play Marth like Mikeneko does. His matches are extremely slow paced and everything he does is safe and well thought out, so his punishes aren't doing as much as you'd think. When Mikehaze played Razer at the big TX tourney last month, this same scenario happened. Game3 wasn't recorded, but when Razer lost his last stock he was around 250%. Mike played extremely safe, alot of times his punishes being grabs (low percent output) and only committed to approaches that he was sure would work.
The great ninja
It could be because your mental flowchart is causing you to only look for certain openings or punish certain moves/habits from the opponent.
EX: Marth vs Lucario. He's playing the keep away game with Aura Spheres and Fsmashes. Marth's nair can beat Lucario's fsmash, but it requires a full committment approach. If you screwed up or Lucario read it, you eat an Aura Sphere. So it turns into a giant space/keepaway/camp game because your so focused on punishing his R/P/S movepool. The flowchart that you've trained yourself to follow is keeping you from doing anything else mentally.
orrrrrrrr
I go through this phase when I'm one stock from losing the set, and my percent is pretty high. Everything in the set becomes magnified and the amount of focus I'm putting out dramatically increases.
Sounds like your playing Marth (or the matchup) correctly, but your not prepared/willing for the insuing campfest. Unfortunately, this is a drawback for maining Marth. I'd be willing to bet that you play Marth like Mikeneko does. His matches are extremely slow paced and everything he does is safe and well thought out, so his punishes aren't doing as much as you'd think. When Mikehaze played Razer at the big TX tourney last month, this same scenario happened. Game3 wasn't recorded, but when Razer lost his last stock he was around 250%. Mike played extremely safe, alot of times his punishes being grabs (low percent output) and only committed to approaches that he was sure would work.
The great ninja
Roxas M
Smash Master
Nike just explained exactly how I play, lol I wouldn't compare myself to mikeneko, though. I try to emulate it, but its far from perfect. A good way of putting it would be is that I can get someone into a corner, but once they're in the corner, they basically stay IN the corner the whole time and I can't do much about it. It's probably a mix of matchup unfamiliarity (lucario, Snake and TL) and I wasn't prepared for the campfest. lol
Most of the people that I practice with, offline and online, don't really play a keep away game so that's most likely another reason why I wasn't prepared for it.
I'd practice a lot more, like how shaya mentioned in great detail, if I had a regular training partner, lol. But the only time I really get some matches in is at the tournament itself.
Most of the people that I practice with, offline and online, don't really play a keep away game so that's most likely another reason why I wasn't prepared for it.
I'd practice a lot more, like how shaya mentioned in great detail, if I had a regular training partner, lol. But the only time I really get some matches in is at the tournament itself.
This too. I usually think alot about my options and which one would be the most effective(I was asking about that here earlier with a few of marth's moves)so my punishes don't really let me gain a huge lead during a match.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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I've asked a few Marth mains things and they never seem to reply to me.
How exactly would I go about approaching Olimar aside from the telegraphed and easily spotted Fairs/ Nairs ?
How exactly would I go about approaching Olimar aside from the telegraphed and easily spotted Fairs/ Nairs ?
Well!
Dancing blade will clash with pikmin throws and smashes (purples are gay), hence following hits will be FREEE~
side b projectile doesn't actually latch onto you if you have your shield up (I didn't know this until yesterday or something, wtf?)
Ftilt is very good for clearing off pikmans
tl;dr I THINK
it's just like.... walking, faster than reaction mixed up fairs, dancing blade reads, don't get dash grabbed.
Aerialess baits (triangle jumps or whatever you want to call them) outside of grab range that aren't read by dash usmash leads into dash stuff. Not getting hit by a read dash usmash is feasible if you time and space your rises/falls.
Dancing blade will clash with pikmin throws and smashes (purples are gay), hence following hits will be FREEE~
side b projectile doesn't actually latch onto you if you have your shield up (I didn't know this until yesterday or something, wtf?)
Ftilt is very good for clearing off pikmans
tl;dr I THINK
it's just like.... walking, faster than reaction mixed up fairs, dancing blade reads, don't get dash grabbed.
Aerialess baits (triangle jumps or whatever you want to call them) outside of grab range that aren't read by dash usmash leads into dash stuff. Not getting hit by a read dash usmash is feasible if you time and space your rises/falls.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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You can also Power Shield the Pikmin latch hits, they hit every 30 frames.
Also got it.
Mix up between Empty Jumps and Dancing Blade Approaches, walk don't run.
Thanks! I may not play by the book for characters.. but when I don't know what to do. I'll be stopping by here more often.
Sylarius
Smash Ace
Quick question.
If I dancing blade and they shield it, should I continue with the fourth hit down (the multiple strikes) or stop? Usually I continue and it wrecks their shield, but I've seen a couple videos where they will shieldgrab you after the third hit. =/
If I dancing blade and they shield it, should I continue with the fourth hit down (the multiple strikes) or stop? Usually I continue and it wrecks their shield, but I've seen a couple videos where they will shieldgrab you after the third hit. =/
ScareMl
Smash Journeyman
that depends on the spacing and your opponents grab range.
if you misspace a dancing blade and he's shielding right next to you, you're probably gonna get grabbed. so yes, i would stop after db2. however, i have seen some marths mix it up by doing db1, 2, 3, and then going for the green twirling one and since there's that split second lag between db 3 and the the start of the down dancing blade, it throws them off.
if you do space it correctly near the tip of your sword and they're out of grab range or they're unsure, keep going. chances are they'll just hold their shield and you can wear it down.
if you misspace a dancing blade and he's shielding right next to you, you're probably gonna get grabbed. so yes, i would stop after db2. however, i have seen some marths mix it up by doing db1, 2, 3, and then going for the green twirling one and since there's that split second lag between db 3 and the the start of the down dancing blade, it throws them off.
if you do space it correctly near the tip of your sword and they're out of grab range or they're unsure, keep going. chances are they'll just hold their shield and you can wear it down.
No, never ever use DB4down. It's like -10000 on shield. It's so unsafe and gets punished by everything. The ONLY times you should use DB4 on shield is if they're pretty much on the very edge of a platform/ledge and it'll push them off so they get hit. The other time is when their shield is already really low, and you're well spaced, so that it will shieldpoke. As a general rule though, if you hit shield with DB1 or DB2, use DB3down, and stop there.
ぱみゅ
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I guess I'll listen to Mr. Purple name 
But serously, if DB hits shields, it's very unsafe, and you'll pretty much get punished anyway.
But serously, if DB hits shields, it's very unsafe, and you'll pretty much get punished anyway.
ScareMl
Smash Journeyman
i must be watching vids from 08
Cygnet
Smash Apprentice
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It's definitely because I've been watching too many Mr. R videos lately (but who hasn't?), but I was wondering how useful SH DB1 on someone's shield is. Of course, it probably depends on who your opponent's character is and if they can punish it OOS, but is it a setup for good mix ups? I've heard a lot of different things from a lot of different people, so I'm not sure what to think anymore.
And as a corollary to the above, I'm assuming that pivot walking is good (but only marginally so) for Marth's game because of his super walking, but how do you pivot walk without a claw grip or setting your L/R buttons to attack?
Thank you for the help!
EDIT: Probably far less important than the above two, but I've been watching too much Mr. R.... is platform canceling particularly use for Marth's (or anyone) game at all?
And as a corollary to the above, I'm assuming that pivot walking is good (but only marginally so) for Marth's game because of his super walking, but how do you pivot walk without a claw grip or setting your L/R buttons to attack?
Thank you for the help!
EDIT: Probably far less important than the above two, but I've been watching too much Mr. R.... is platform canceling particularly use for Marth's (or anyone) game at all?
Capuchon
Smash Cadet
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I think, if the opponent is in the air and you on the ground, it work, i tried, and it seems to work =), but if the opponent is on the ground, no, he can shield =/.
BUT, it seems that you can read the reaction of the opponent after your Bside, but, anyway, a bside on a shield, i think is not safe =P, bside is too long for that i think.
No need, personally i use the Z button for attack, and the C-stick to pivot walk, it's not hard.
I hope it will help you
.
Sylarius
Smash Ace
I use platform canceling slightly but not as much as people from Europe do. Their platform canceling is ridiculous. (ly good)
Mainly at the beginning of a match in Smashville I'll platform cancel if the platform is on my side when rushing them, but I don't use very much platform canceling otherwise. (On the other hand, I play most of my matches online since nobody lives close to me pretty much) It's good if you can do it consistently for mindgames but you definitely don't want to be spamming it.
There are very good uses of platform canceling I've seen especially in Mr.R and I've seen MikeHaze do it as well, but I've also seen people uselessly take damage because they miss a platform cancel, especially when the opponent is respawning and they miss it. =/
Guess that's what I have to say. x:
Sylarius
Smash Ace
I know I saw Neo do this to someone's Squirtle on the last stock by reading a roll properly.
All of those are air grab releases by the way. x:
He air grab released to regrab, then air grab released to tipped Dair and won. I'm assuming fair and DB should work because tipped dair does.
Sylarius
Smash Ace
Basically if Dair works, everything works, since
If Dair works Nair works
If Nair works Fair works
If Fair works Dash attack works
Therefore if Dair works Dash attack works
x:
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
seen many marths punish with db up at high %s rather than the forward db. when is it more practical to use db up? when does it start killing?
Completely fresh 4th hit of db up kills at like, 90%.
But it will pretty much always be staled at least 3-4, so a bit later.
Upwards haves its usages 'all the time', but most people are slightly lazy on it... forwards fine, it does damage. Upwards fine, it does damage. Both can lead onto things.
But it will pretty much always be staled at least 3-4, so a bit later.
Upwards haves its usages 'all the time', but most people are slightly lazy on it... forwards fine, it does damage. Upwards fine, it does damage. Both can lead onto things.
williamwsharp
Smash Cadet
how come everybody worships Leon as best marth, and still gets ***** in apex?
Disrespecting the leon shrine is blasphemous around these parts.
KillLock
Smash Lord
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how come everybody worships mew2king as best mk, and still gets ***** in apex?
trolololol
But on a serious note Leon did a great job, better than I expected considering his pool. And to make it into bracket no less is a feat on its own from a tournament of this caliber. Aside from the youtube monsters I don't think anyone ever considered Leon as the best Marth but to say he isn't good at what he does would be a mistake imo.
People hype Leon because his tipper fsmash spacing is probably the best out of any Marth currently active. He seems to have fallen out of heavy practise; but he's a very modest and likeable person.
ぱみゅ
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I've always workshipped Nairo's MK, since much before it was cool...
And he got ***** by Nietono in the rematch (Nairo said he was too tired/nervous/pressured, but whatever, he's still amazing).
Leon, MikeHaze, Ramin, all did great, but the bracket was full of names, every player on top 24 and some others that drowned quickly on the bracket are amazing players.
And he got ***** by Nietono in the rematch (Nairo said he was too tired/nervous/pressured, but whatever, he's still amazing).
Leon, MikeHaze, Ramin, all did great, but the bracket was full of names, every player on top 24 and some others that drowned quickly on the bracket are amazing players.
Zano
Smash Master
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Leon is a great player, he did well at apex. Same with Ramin.
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
leons fast and does aggression good
Brawlman1000
Smash Ace
Hello Marth Boards! I wanna pick up Marth as my secondary character but I need help. First of all can some1 tell me some of Marth's AT and how and when to use them? And also what are Marth's overall best and worst stages against most characters?
He doesn't have any ATs that you need to bother yourself with at the moment. His best stage is typically Battlefield, however you usually want to CP based on who you're playing against.
Just focus on spacing and safety in move selection/when to FF, and nothing but those. As simple as it might sound, one of the most important things you'll need to know about Marth is how to recognize situations when to:
FF fair, Rising fair, FH rising fair, slowfall fair, DJ fair, slowfall nair, FF nair, and FF (landing) uair
A lot of "experienced" Marth mains still mess those situations up. Until you have a really strong grasp on the basics, trying to do anything else will just hurt you.
Just focus on spacing and safety in move selection/when to FF, and nothing but those. As simple as it might sound, one of the most important things you'll need to know about Marth is how to recognize situations when to:
FF fair, Rising fair, FH rising fair, slowfall fair, DJ fair, slowfall nair, FF nair, and FF (landing) uair
A lot of "experienced" Marth mains still mess those situations up. Until you have a really strong grasp on the basics, trying to do anything else will just hurt you.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
This interests me. Is there a guide of sorts to when to use these different options? I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the basics, it would just be nice to see what the opinions are on this.
I picked Marth up as my official secondary a week or two ago, and have done surprisingly well with him. The one thing I've noticed however is that I tend to over-pursue and get punished for being a little too aggressive at times.
Besides using those options at the right time, what advice would you give someone trying to up their game with Marth?