Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Shaya]

Last time I played oli in tournament I tippered every aerial and I got ***** for it

When I redid frame data a few hundred years ago using da MATHS or shizzle -3/-7 was the general standard

 

[Pierce7d]

I think Olimar can actually grab dtilt if he buffers it, but in practice, this is still a usable pressure tool, and excellent when you can confirm it, or punish a landing.

I was rather careful to say an non-perfect Fair, because Kel is asking for advice in a MU, so telling him information that would require him to perfectly execute every aerial is unrealistic, and will provided an example of a non-perfect Fair. I thought a perfect Fair was -4, not -3, but I might be thinking of Uair. Either way, same ****, lol.

I was under the impression that the frame data for the falling aerials included the landing lag. In practice, this has been so.

 

[Shaya]

I redid the frame data with hit lag/etc being calculated through the formula for damages.

It included landing lag.

 

[Jester Kirby]

So, I was watching some videos of Mr. R playing at Apex, I noticed that he'd often dash one way and suddenly dash the other way. Marth didn't go through the little turn around animation when he did this and he wasn't shield cancelling his dash. How did he pivot into a new dash so quickly? Sorry if this is an obvious basic AT, I'd just never seen it before.

 

[Zano]

forward, forward, back.

 

[ChocoNaner]

So, I was watching some videos of Mr. R playing at Apex, I noticed that he'd often dash one way and suddenly dash the other way. Marth didn't go through the little turn around animation when he did this and he wasn't shield cancelling his dash. How did he pivot into a new dash so quickly? Sorry if this is an obvious basic AT, I'd just never seen it before.

lol I was wondering this too until I figured out it was sort of like dash dancing but instead of holding the control stick you have to let go in between the dashes :I

Just flick it in one direction and then in the other, the timing is a bit strict but you should get it once you practice I:

zano stop bein useless u n00b ichu:

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

I think it's called a foxtrot. I know that is useful for characters who have a faster start-up dash animation than running animation.

 

[PEACE7]

You can also fsmash out of foxtrot

 

[LooftWaffles]

Not a troll question.

Is Marth a good character or a decent character with good tools?

 

[Shaya]

Marth is a mediocre character with great to god tier tools.

 

[Y.b.M.]

Thanks for the Ledge cancelling help Yo but I cannot get this Freaking ledge Cancel.
For those who didn't know, I play with the Wii-mote Nunchuk...so I'm trying to translate the GC info into what I can...

Is there a simple way to do it... I think you Marth Mains should have an instruction video on it...

 

[Sylarius]

Thanks for the Ledge cancelling help Yo but I cannot get this Freaking ledge Cancel.
For those who didn't know, I play with the Wii-mote Nunchuk...so I'm trying to translate the GC info into what I can...

Is there a simple way to do it... I think you Marth Mains should have an instruction video on it...

If you're playing locally/online competitively or higher, buy a GCC.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure using dair (down + a on the wiichuk) or down special should platform cancel if you're at the right height. >_>

 

[ScareMl]

Thanks for the Ledge cancelling help Yo but I cannot get this Freaking ledge Cancel.
For those who didn't know, I play with the Wii-mote Nunchuk...so I'm trying to translate the GC info into what I can...

Is there a simple way to do it... I think you Marth Mains should have an instruction video on it...

YBM, i play wiimote+nunchuk too. I'll help you out with controls and any techniques you might need help with. I'll PM you. And Sylarius, GCC is not better than wiimote+chuk, esp. if you're playing marth.

 

[clowsui]

If you're playing locally/online competitively or higher, buy a GCC.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure using dair (down + a on the wiichuk) or down special should platform cancel if you're at the right height. >_>

do research into various players w control schemes first lol. y.b.m., tearbear and ultimaterazer all represent players with fantastic levels of success even with wiimote + chuk.

kel if you tip your fairs but he blocks it he has more time to counter is all. it's fairly easy to put olimar in bad positions with nontips for most percentages. nontip fair if you vary the timing it's more safe than if you vary tip fair timing due to the additional lag

with regards to dtilt you should use it selectively to make sure that olimar can't get away with spotdodge and rolling; also if olimar is blocking and you're spacing well it's really good overall since nontip dtilt is effective string tool and tip dtilt pushes olimar to one of the sides/ledges, where marth gets tons of free damage. it's also effective to crouch -> powershield aerial -> dtilt (as an alternative to grabbing the landing or using an aerial).

 

[Sylarius]

do research into various players w control schemes first lol. y.b.m., tearbear and ultimaterazer all represent players with fantastic levels of success even with wiimote + chuk.

I know that. >_< It's because you can only control movement and attack with one control stick whereas with the gcc you can control them separately.

EDIT: Unless you're using the dpad.
Double edit: Wiichuk is better than GCC when you're using Marth? Since when? I wouldn't mind switching if that's right, but I really doubt it.

 

[ScareMl]

I know that. >_< It's because you can only control movement and attack with one control stick whereas with the gcc you can control them separately.

EDIT: Unless you're using the dpad.
Double edit: Wiichuk is better than GCC when you're using Marth? Since when? I wouldn't mind switching if that's right, but I really doubt it.

i set my d-pad to c-stick and c on the chuk to grab (although i use shield+a most of the time), so that way everything is right where I need it. and with tap jump on, i can buffer aerials better and up-b oos faster. stuff like that makes all the difference sometimes.

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

I just have the controls standard except L is jump. That way I can jump with L, aerial in any direction with the c-stick, and move in any direction with the control stick with separate fingers allowing for ease in timing stuff. It really helps for aerials OoS and full hopping aerials at short hop heights. But the whole reason for control customization is for each different person a different control scheme works best. The only real thing you can do is make control schemes from scratch or try other's setups until you find something comfortable and effective.

 

[Sylarius]

and with tap jump on, i can buffer aerials better and up-b oos faster. stuff like that makes all the difference sometimes.

I have tap jump on as well. x:

 

[Kuro~]

Mine are weird. I have r to attack and x to special. Gonna try switching r to jump.

 

[Sylarius]

I used to have R to jump for Falco's IAP, but it was harder for me to tech G&W's Dthrow. It feels more natural to use my right finger than my left, but teching other than his dthrow seems fine with L. <.<
I had R before that too for Gatling Combo, but jump was better.

 

[Kuro~]

I use L for shield/tech/etc. So that's why.

 

[Sylarius]

Same. Switching R back to jump though because it's more useful as it <.<

 

[Ken Neth]

Hey I just have another quick question about that multiple platform cancels thing in that video ybm posted. I can do it but I can't seem to do it without the shield popping up in between. Are there any tips for avoiding that? And could it be because I am using R instead of Z? Thanks guys

 

[Sylarius]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310301

You want to be pressing shield, then down on the control stick immediately afterwards when you're at the platform canceling height. (If you've platform canceled before you probably know what this is.)

 

[-LzR-]

What is generally Marths biggest weakness? How do I get past the wall of fairs? I know this is a hard question to answer, but do your best...

 

[Lord Chair]

those are 2 different questions tho

 

[LooftWaffles]

What is generally Marths biggest weakness? How do I get past the wall of fairs? I know this is a hard question to answer, but do your best...

You dont really get past them...... you want to shield the one he throws out when hes about to land. If its misspaced, grab it. Marth lacks multihit moves so using your shield as an approach tool against him works very well.

 

[-LzR-]

But... Marth has nair that has like 9000 hits :o Gets me every single time.

 

[Lord Chair]

You dont really get past them...... you want to shield the one he throws out when hes about to land. If its misspaced, grab it. Marth lacks multihit moves so using your shield as an approach tool against him works very well.

could you refrain from giving advice if this is what it ends in

 

[LooftWaffles]

Since when wasnt the opponents shield Marths weakness?

 

[Ken Neth]

Marth doesn't have enough lag to really be punished for hitting shield if you know what you're doing. In that sense everyone's weakness is the opponent's shield cause shields block attacks lol.

 

[LooftWaffles]

I was moreso refering to the wall of fairs mentioned in the other post

 

[MasterOfGalaxies]

If you have a projectile you can camp Marth. If not, try camping anyways. Marth's offensive options aren't as good as his defensive options. If the Marth is too smart/has a lead, just keep pressuring him with whatever you can until he screws up his spacing. The key is that Marth's options, while rather good, are difficult to continuously perform correctly. Therefore, if you want to win against a Marth that's pretty good, just make them screw up.
If you want to win against a Marth who is really good, camp with bananas until he rages.

 

[Pierce7d]

I would say the most accurate advise since I last posted was actually to use your shield to get past the wall of Fair. Marth's offense is about as good as his defense, and that statement is really MU dependant. In most of the higher tiered MUs that matter, Marth's offensive capabilities are what win him the match. He's very good at breaking zoning, and has terrific pokes and follow-ups. His range to speed ratio allows him to get rewarded for making reads.

To beat Marth's Fair wall with inferior spacing tools, you must learn to be better at spacing. I will not teach you that in this thread though.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Quick Questions: What are Marth's best approaching options and what characters do you find easiest and hardest to approach as Marth?

 

[ScareMl]

you're basically asking how to play marth. read this thread that CJ made

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=315099

and i find DDD hard to approach

 

[-LzR-]

Well it's really hard for G&W to do stuff against Marth so I use ICs on that MU, but Marth can really just pressure the hell out of me and I can't really punish him with ICs lack of range and Nana being a moron >_>
It's hard to punish a fair even if I manage to powershield it

 

[Ken Neth]

I've started using marth in teams a lot recently. Is there any general advice or tactics to using him in teams that I should know about? I have a fairly deep understanding of smash, so I'm wondering more about character specific things than just how to play teams in general.

Oh and my normal teammate is a wario if that makes any difference.

 

[Taste]

I'm trying to find a Marth match video to show my friend, there's one I have in mind but I can't remember the details

-it was commentated. It was hype.
-it was on battlefield. No texture hacks I think
-can't remember if it was a marth vs mk or marth vs falco. I think mk?
-The marth didn't even really fight, he only waited for chaingrabs and went for gimps. At one point he grabbed his opponent but released them because he wasn't satisfied with his positioning to chaingrab

anyone know this video?

 

[ScareMl]

yeah, it was k5l vs takiyoku or something. I know which one you're talking about, the falco was pulling off these nice combos and had the marth at 180% last stock and he used the fthrow x2 dair combo. but the video is set to private for some reason