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[AmKhokar]

RBDACUS Inputs

You can bdacus (3 inputs) in the landing animation of an empty landing if it's a hard landing (4 frames) from a fastfall or a landing with RCO lag (15+ frames), rather than a non-fastfall soft landing (2 frames)....

Awesome, thanks!

Do you know the inputs for the reverse BDACUS? I feel like it could be useful at certain times like when you initiate a BDACUS when your opponent is mid range from you and they shield / spot dodge it and you just end up safely passed them. You could BDACUS --> reverse BDACUS to catch them off guard or dash attack away then reverse BDACUS as a mind game, or maybe even BAir-->reverse BDACUS . I'd really just like to practice it a bit and see if it fits into my playstyle. I think it could also be useful in doubles as it would allow you to SHL or SHDL any opponent who is off the stage to delay their recovs and immediately close distance on a target in center stage, allowing for quicker target switches.

Before and after I posted this question I was continuously hunting Falco forums for an answer and found out about the soft / FF landing BDACUS. I've managed to get the FF-BDACUS down fairly consistently, but ill definitely try the FFAD-BDACUS so I can do it more consistently. I like the reverse laser BDACUS but I'd like to experiement some more with all Falco's available options and see what I'm most comfortable with and if it may come in handy :D

 

[luxingo]

I've managed to get the FF-BDACUS down fairly consistently

Really? What's your success rate with BDACUSing out of only 4 frames of lag? Are you sure that you're not simply doing a long DACUS?

Also, just out of curiosity, what inputs do you use for the BDACUS?

And regarding the reverse BDACUS:

You can buffer a dash, but you can't simply buffer a dash attack because the game will read it as a reverse Dsmash/Usmash.

Now thechnically it is possible to reverse bdacus, but the input is
back > down > back > upC*2
All that in 10 frames lol.

 

[1PokeMastr]

It IS possible to reverse BDacus, but by the time you master it. You would have been better off just learning a normal BDacus or practicing your tech skill.

Also, Luxingo. I believe that he's just doing a normal Dacus with hard/ soft landing lag BUT he's making the same BDacus inputs. It's only at Dacus length because one input is outside of the buffer window; In this case it's only 4 frames because of how quickly the landing ends. Same for BDacus Oos, if you're to input shield and drop it immediately, You'd have 8 frames for the buffer window, as only 8 frames exist.

However, it IS possible to BDacus from soft/ hard landings. Just the same as being able to Dacus from Standing position by using Dash -> C-Stick Down -> C-Stick Up. The inputs just have to be ridiculously fast.


Anyway, don't waste your time trying to learn a Reverse BDacus until you've mastered Falco's Basics and Falco in general.

 

[AmKhokar]

Yeah, I'm actually very comfortable with BDACUS off what I use it with (dthrow, jab 3, rarely spot dodge, or shl/shdl). The reason I asked about the soft/hard landing BDACUS is because while experimenting with reverse BDACUS to see if I could find inputs for it (though I wasn't aware if it truly existed, I just saw something reverse BDACUS esque in a Gluttony vid) I accidentally did a bdacus without inputting any aerial option before landing and wanted to make sure I wasn't just mistaking it for something else. The way I practiced the hard landing BDACUS was simply SH with forward momentum --> DA using the up c stick once to get a feel for the timing of the 4 frame buffer window. Once I was able to DA out of hard fall as early as possible, I began practicing with the 2nd cstick input.

I agree that there should be more focus on mastering Falco basics / general play, but I tend to learn ATs fairly quickly. When my practice crew isn't around I go to training mode to practice ATs that im still rusty on and then trying to practice doing them out of a combo to get a muscle memory feel for them (I.e throw + normal DACUS, which I still don't do well because I find a charged or normal BDACUS easier). My success on BDACUS out of fast fall is roughly 40% as of last night before I passed out. I'm gonna try it a bit more later today because when I first learned BDACUS, I was doing roughly that well out of spot dodge (after learning it out of spot dodge it was alot easier to learn it off other prefaces) and now I can BDACUS out of any input Id actually use about 90+ percent of the time.

My Falco is far from solid on any high level standard, but I feel developing ATs into muscle memory is a completely separate thing / method from improving my general Falco game or incorporating ATs into it, though I need to be comfortable with the ATs before I can incorporate them.
Anyways, thank you guys so much for all of the advice and responses!

 

[1PokeMastr]

Make sure you're getting the full length BDacus.
Go to the edge of FD and face inward. If you make it to the center diamond, you did it.

Like you, I learn ATs fairly quickly but I tend to focus more on the basics and less on the ATs because BDacus doesn't have much use except for burst range/ follow ups out of something. Though, the ONE form of BDacus I want to focus on at the moment is BDacus Oos, so that I can Punish a retreating aerial. Making them no longer safe :3

 

[AmKhokar]

Yeah, I can usually differentiate between the BDACUS and DACUS length but I will start going to the edge of FD to practice and assure I'm not forming DACUS habits when I want BDACUS xD.

I try to focus on the basics as much as I can, but unfortunately my practice with players of my skill level or better is limited. Most high level players in the UVa area are less active due to schoolwork. Everyone I know is either a casual player or a pro, with the exception of a few (though I really only know of SMASH GOD /Junebug as pros). I tend to play less with non-competitive players because I still have many bad habits that they don't punish and they're really easily conditioned / very directly baited for a punish and I feel like that actually hurts my gameplay when I play an opponent that quickly picks up on my overly direct bait / conditioning patterns and in turn punishes me for them. I feel the alternatives to improving my basic skills are watching vids / exploring threads, but those can only help so much compared to playing a lot of different people. Because of this I have tons of 1 player time and I don't want to play against a CPU (unless practicing true combos or something simple), so I hit training mode and practice up on my ATs.
Shield drop BDACUS sounds like a sick punish for opponents who are safely spacing aerials and I'm definitely gonna work on that soon. I found out about that yesterday at the same time as the soft and hard landing BDACUS and won't be working on Oos until I'm more comfortable with hard and soft landing ones.

 

[Esca]

YOUR LITTLE Leap of FAIRY leader KEITARO is going DOWN AT APEX. U BETTER SEND FOX OR WOLF OR SOMETHING CAUSE THIS ***** GONNA NEED SOME HELP!

 

[Linkshot]

large bold bright text

Something's wrong with the care-diffuser

Hi I lurk this thread

 

[Darktega]

Something's wrong with the care-diffuser

Hi I lurk this thread

Just adding:

 

[teluoborg]

Hey Einstein ! This is the wrong thread !

 

[Darktega]

Lol that.

Well, leaving the lolz aside, uhm...

How do I charge BDacus?

 

[1PokeMastr]

The same way you charge a normal smash.

 

[AmKhokar]

I set L to attack. It's easier for me that way. Some ppl hold A or Z instead.

 

[Darktega]

Oh, well, I thought it was different beacuse I do normal Dacus with Z (Dash cancel --> Up + Z for Usmash)

Anyway, that never came into my mind, thanks.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I do..

Dash -> C-Stick Down -> C-Stick Up -> A.

To charge my BDacus.

 

[Darktega]

Won't it be C-Stick Up + A?

 

[AmKhokar]

Yes, Dark. If you push A a touch after up c stick it'll work fine. Think jump cancelled up smash using tap jump, there is some leeway in timing the A, but mentally thinking of it as A and cstick up at the same time makes it easier for me

 

[1PokeMastr]

Well, when I do my Charged BDacus. Every input is made directly after one another.

Analog Stick -> Returns to Neutral -> C-Stick Down -> Neutral -> C-Stick Up -> Neutral -> A.

And there isn't a leeway in the Charging of the smash for jump cancelled or not.
Any smash remains the same, Jump Cancelled or Not, there's no difference in when you can charge it.

It's just that you're hitting Jump + Up + A all at once, so it charges.
I push C-Stick Up -> A. Which has to be in one quick motion or else it doesn't charge ( meaning your thumbs have to be fast ).

 

[AmKhokar]

JCUS=input up analog first then A. Normal up smash = analog up + A.
I wasn't referring to just charging it. I was referring to performing the action in the first place. I was simply pointing out that A could be pushed slightly after the analog input and it would still be registered as a smash. You misread my post.

 

[Darktega]

Huh, thanks to everyone, I'll try to see charge BDacus that way, sounds interesting.

 

[luxingo]

Well, when I do my Charged BDacus. Every input is made directly after one another.

Analog Stick -> Returns to Neutral -> C-Stick Down -> Neutral -> C-Stick Up -> Neutral -> A.

You don't have to wait for the analog stick to return to neutral before the C-Stick down (although you do for the C-Stick up), so it's faster if you go from the analog stick for the dash to C-Stick down and let them both return to neutral in their own time. Since you put the C-Stick down input after, the analog stick should return to neutral before the C-Stick does.

Likewise, you don't need the neutral between C-Stick up and A.

 

[1PokeMastr]

It happens automatically with me, and I find it's easier to do Bdacus like that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I never thought to try this much until the last tournament, but does anyone attempt a dthrow -> dash/run -> turn-around -> Bair at all? I was sort of surprised about it utility at catching a lot of things such as air dodges due to its long duration, range at hitting at the appropriate angle, and versatility at being able to adjust with a full hop or a short hop. It even seems to out range a lot of common counter attacks.

I usually just Dacus'd at KO percent or went for shield -> w/e follow-ups.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Actually, last Friday I tried the D-Throw -> Rar Bair as well and it worked surprisingly well. I honestly didn't expect it to work at all.

 

[Grimmz]

What are the recommended controls for falco?

 

[C.J.]

Whatever is comfortable for you.

 

[luxingo]

What he said.

But it might be beneficial to have a jump in a shoulder button for IAPs and full hop bairs and whatever, and to have an attack or grab as a shoulder button as well for DACUS and charging.

 

[AmKhokar]

Idt there are really recommended ones. People change them to cater to their style. I set "L" to attack (easier for me to charge BDACUS this way) and "X" to special (to do IAP). I also keep tap jump on in order to more easily perform jump-cancelled inputs. I've heard of people setting "L" to jump and/or "X" to grab or just using default controls. It's all up to what you feel is most comfortable while still being able perform ATs well.

 

[Grimmz]

Welp, I guess i'll stick with default then. And back when I used to main falco I used do my DACUS by dashing+up(control stick)+C-stick(down)+ Y button to make it easier but then I got the hang of doing it with the A button instead.

 

[Darktega]

Well, I use default controls and stick with tap jump, I can do AT's pretty well (like IAP in a very fast motion) and all of that, but I think that's just me.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If some sort of configuration exists that allows you to make a series of inputs with a low failure rate over another configuration or it better enables you to make inputs more quickly, I believe that configuration should be used over default.

Unless no such configuration can be found that better optimizes your performance by even a little bit. The trade off is learning a new series of controls and being accustomed to it. But, this I think is a small one.

In general, being able to split up inputs between two or more digits increases your speed of execution and in my opinion your overall success rate. For example, with default controls, IAP can be done by 1) tap jump -> sideB or 2) X/Y to SideB. 1) requires you to tap jump and despite your practice, it will happen that you make a mistake such as being too slow going from up to over, or you UpB in place by mistiming. 2) has a problem with physically having to cover a larger distance for a single finger to go from X/Y to B. Thus your timing will be a bit slower and not as low to the ground as possible and you may lose some frames when landing.

By setting X and rolling one's thumb from Y -> X in a fluid motion. Fast and low risk input, and does not distract from the rest of your configuration as it is a minor change from default. So, I would say Grimmz it might be some what beneficial if only a little bit to your gameplay to make the best use of having two extra buttons on the controller than needed.

 

[Trollby]

'Yo, what's up my fellow bakers? Recently I've come to realize that playing patient has been helping me get a LOT of reads, but is knowing a match up well and playing smart the same thing? I'm not sure what would be more beneficial, but to be honest, I'd rather just play smart because it appears learning a match up takes a lot of time.. I think that analyzing my mistakes are much more better than trying to play the MU the way it should be.
Note: I'm a wifi player, and I do very much want to start playing offline.. but I'm not going to start yet. Instead I want to get as much experience as I can online since I don't have many "good" smash players around my area, unfortunately.

 

[Naridax]

Playing smart and knowing match ups go hand-in-hand. How do you play smart when you don't know what to do? You don't. You would probably miss punishes, attempt to punish mistakes incorrectly, and play too cautiously or recklessly.

 

[AmKhokar]

At an average level of gameplay, I agree with you, Trollby. Tons of people use styles of play that are different (and ultimately less effective) than the meta created by high level players. Trying to deal with these in a way that follows the metagame of the matchup can yield wavering results. IMO, know the matchup and note when you're most vulnerable / what tricks, combos, locks, follow-ups can most hurt you and watch out for those in game. Base your play on how your opponent uses their character as well as what you know is your biggest threat. Read and punish, but avoid getting baited or conditioned into a zero death, insane combo, infinite grab, or some lock. Not having knowledge of the MU can lead to quick losses vs tons of players who can abuse their advantages more than you. Relying too heavily on reads can weaken your gameplay vs unfamiliar opponents. Know your MU, get experience with reads in tourney, but don't rely too heavily on reads.

 

[Trollby]

Playing smart and knowing match ups go hand-in-hand. How do you play smart when you don't know what to do? You don't. You would probably miss punishes, attempt to punish mistakes incorrectly, and play too cautiously or recklessly.

Mmm... well I feel that as long as I KNOW what the character I'm playing is capable of, then I'm easily able to play smart and do well, but you're right when you say that I won't know all the best options, so yeah, thanks for the opinion. I think I will study MU's and practice hard.

At an average level of gameplay, I agree with you, Trollby. Tons of people use styles of play that are different (and ultimately less effective) than the meta created by high level players. Trying to deal with these in a way that follows the metagame of the matchup can yield wavering results. IMO, know the matchup and note when you're most vulnerable / what tricks, combos, locks, follow-ups can most hurt you and watch out for those in game. Base your play on how your opponent uses their character as well as what you know is your biggest threat. Read and punish, but avoid getting baited or conditioned into a zero death, insane combo, infinite grab, or some lock. Not having knowledge of the MU can lead to quick losses vs tons of players who can abuse their advantages more than you. Relying too heavily on reads can weaken your gameplay vs unfamiliar opponents. Know your MU, get experience with reads in tourney, but don't rely too heavily on reads.

Yeah.. you made it official, it's VERY necessary to know a match up as well as you possibly can. I agree with you 100 percent. I'll be working my *** off with Falco now.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

'Yo, what's up my fellow bakers? Recently I've come to realize that playing patient has been helping me get a LOT of reads, but is knowing a match up well and playing smart the same thing? I'm not sure what would be more beneficial, but to be honest, I'd rather just play smart because it appears learning a match up takes a lot of time.. I think that analyzing my mistakes are much more better than trying to play the MU the way it should be.

Playing patient and getting reads are not really the same thing. If your are playing more cautiously and waiting more often before committing, then you are really just waiting for your opponent to attack first. I'd call a read more something like waiting beneath a platform and expecting them to attack instead of air dodge so you get out of the way of the attack. Or, you see them on the ledge and call they are going to get off it to punish you on stage, so you phantasm to the ledge anyway. But, that's semantics.

Playing smart and knowing a match-up I say are completely different things in matters of importance. If anything, knowing to play smart is more important than a match-up knowledge.

Ideally, Marth should UpB Falco the moment he starts trying to rapid jab. However, some Marth's just never do this. The match-up thing to do would be to never rapid jab since Marth should punish you for it all the time. The smart thing to do is see whether the other marth actually manages to ever punish you for it. If they are not, then you found a tool to abuse.

Although, there are limitations in your decision making ability if you don't have some experience with a match-up. Your experience with a match-up sets-up your basis for decision making, but not all of it. The other component of playing smart is matching what your opponent tends to do.

 

[me9595]

so i want to practice the boost grab with falco, but im doing it against a computer, is there a way to tell if im doing it right or if im messing up all the time

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

My best guess would be a to pick a character who is hard to regrab due to strict timing needed. The best way would be to sit down and have a marth UpB against you as you attempt to do this.

 

[C.J.]

The animation for a boost grab and a dash grab are visually quite different. It shouldn't be difficult to distinguish between the two of them.

 

[me9595]

oh wow i never even noticed the difference, thanks