Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Charizard92]

A What?

(This statement is posted for legal purposes)

 

[zeta]

so i was fightin a metaknight that was spammin his jab attack and i fell in with charry so i spammed jab attack and broke his hahaha get owned MK

 

[Charizard92]

Uhh, guys, I made a not so good discovery. It turns out that Charizard can't really speed hug a ledge. For some reason, when you try to speed hug with Charizard, you just fall a bit, then you grab. AKA, A split second delay. This may not sound like much, but both Squirtle & Ivysaur speed hug in a blink of an eye, in comparison to like half a second Charizard takes.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

(The following technique can be performed by any character, but I personally think it works exceptionally well with Charizard because of his low SH and how useful Flamethrower and Rock Smash are)

So I was toying around with SH Rock Smashes, and decided to throw in some... RAR, is it called? Where you run forward, pivot, jump, and then can perform your back aerial (or any aerial in general).
So anyway I was doing that and found something a bit interesting out. If you do that up to the jump part, then use Rock Smash in the direction you are now facing (which is the opposite one when you were dashing) and then do the B-Reversal thing, Charizard will perform the Rock Smash and then thanks to the B-Reversal, will do it while moving backwards (provided you're inputting it as so). This can also be done with Flamethrower, but to me it's a bit harder to perform than if you used Rock Smash.

So yeah, you can go from dashing at the foe into a SH retreating Rock Smash/Flamethrower of sorts. Personally I think this would be quite useful (coming from someone who doesn't go to tournies etc. but w/e)

I don't know if this is known or not. I apologize if it is.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

I think its pretty interesting, charizard runs pretty fast... and it is ROCKSMASH!!!!!

 

[zeta]

i dont follow vids pls

 

[Umpadumpalump]

You shouldn't use Nair a lot I don't think, but it does have great follow-ups to it. EX: horiz nair> sweetspot ftilt, vert nair> grab/uair. Sometimes you can use it to hit someone below you with a sweetspot, they usually think the attack is over when you do that.

Btw, what is hadoken special and gair?

 

[gantrain05]

You shouldn't use Nair a lot I don't think, but it does have great follow-ups to it. EX: horiz nair> sweetspot ftilt, vert nair> grab/uair. Sometimes you can use it to hit someone below you with a sweetspot, they usually think the attack is over when you do that.

Btw, what is hadoken special and gair?

i believe hadoken is a street fighter special attack? im not sure i never really played street fighter or any other fighting game besides soul calibur, and Gair is glide attack. > Glideair > Gair.

 

[Charizard92]

Again, Charizard is the least aerial oriented of the three characters that can glide (and I mean true glide, so no Mario can glide crap). Gliding has less of a purpose too, especially since the chance where the two aerials and fly won't work yet glide does is rare.

 

[Steeler]

mario SHOULD be able to glide. he would so **** if he could super mario world cape glide.

that...would be awezome.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

Gliding works just fine, one just needs to learn how to use it. The hit box for glide is a little hard to land but it is very effective when you land it, decent damage and good knock back.

Gliding also helps you gain momentum in recovery so you can save your extra jumps just in case you're edge fighting or whatever may come up. For this just start up the glide and move to give yourself momentum then just press Jump again to get out of the glide and you will still have all your extra jumps.

You can glide directly to the edge making Charizard grab it and get i-frames. This can be helpful if your opponent tries edge guard near the tip, maneuver yourself so you avoid any attacks (like a Bowser Fire Breath for example) and quickly grab the ledge and continue to get back on stage. Along with this you can play an aerial game to trick your opponent as to where you may try to land, maneuver around it and land safely on the stage.

Glide is a bit under estimated and I feel it has a many good uses, one just needs to eye ball the situation and figure out how to use glide in an effective way if they chose to.

 

[Tenki]

I don't know if this is known or not. I apologize if it is.

It sort of is.

Another thing you can do is jump (facing 'forward'), tap back (release), hit B and quickly hit forward at about same time.

Tapping back then hitting B normally starts a flamethrower facing backwards. B-reversing it (sliding the opposite direction that you're facing) would then make it face forward. But all you'd see is Charizard jumping forwards, then 'bouncing' backwards while starting a flame thrower.

For side-B, you can jump forward, hit back-B-forward, and it'll do the same thing.

Uhh, guys, I made a not so good discovery. It turns out that Charizard can't really speed hug a ledge. For some reason, when you try to speed hug with Charizard, you just fall a bit, then you grab. AKA, A split second delay. This may not sound like much, but both Squirtle & Ivysaur speed hug in a blink of an eye, in comparison to like half a second Charizard takes.

Eh?

How do you usually perform it?

I usually perform it by walking off the edge, then quickly rolling the control stick from down to back. (fastfall --> hold towards edge)

If it works with Ganondorf, and even Sonic/Falcon at full speed, I don't see why it wouldn't work with Charizard.

 

[Steeler]

i kept b-reversaling on ACCIDENT at oh snap saturday. maybe it's about time i learn how to use it on purpose lol.

 

[Charizard92]

Eh?

How do you usually perform it?

I usually perform it by walking off the edge, then quickly rolling the control stick from down to back. (fastfall --> hold towards edge)

If it works with Ganondorf, and even Sonic/Falcon at full speed, I don't see why it wouldn't work with Charizard.

I walk off the edge and immediately press backwards. Squirtle and Ivysaur are capable of doing this quickly, but Charizard takes a split second to do so. I kinda made this discovery after failing to speed hug gimp KO CPU Olimars.

Later: OK, You're right. What I was doing was apparently normal hugs instead of speed hugs. It is more difficult though.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Hey... Charizard92, you were poster 493 in this thread.
Anywho...

i dont follow vids pls

I apologize for the inconvenience, but I do not have the items required to make videos. (I doubt my mom would let me anyways...)

Basically what you do is dash, turn around as if you're doing a RAR, SH, use Rock Smash/Flamethrower in that direction, and then B-Reversal. Charizard will continue to do RS/FT, but he'll turn around and will be moving backwards in midair while he's doing it, provided you're DIing backwards. It's sort of like a fake out. (Charizard learned Fake Out!)

Hopefully if pants or someone that can make vids understands this, that person would make a vid about it.

 

[Charizard92]

Hey... Charizard92, you were poster 493 in this thread.

I know too, If I wasn't an avid Pokemon fan, I'd be choosing someone else, and if I wasn't an avid Char family fan, I'd be choosing Lucario. Pokemon #493 is not only the last one in the Pokedex, but it is also God. (yes, you can catch God in a Pokeball)

 

[PltnmNgl]

I thought you couldn't catch Arceus (or whatever his name is)...

 

[Charizard92]

Actually...

A: you got it's name right (Arceus is genderless)
B: Without a heaven's pipe (Azure Flute, or whatever you call it), no. Arceus is located in the hall of origin, which is only accessible with said Item (or hacks). In order to get the Item, you need to go to a Nintendo event (or hack). Because Nintendo hasn't officially released Arceus to anywhere and only has unofficially released Shayman in an accidental leak outside Japan, Arceus is inaccessible (without hacks).

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Actually...

A: you got it's name right (Arceus is genderless)
B: Without a heaven's pipe (Azure Flute, or whatever you call it), no. Arceus is located in the hall of origin, which is only accessible with said Item (or hacks). In order to get the Item, you need to go to a Nintendo event (or hack). Because Nintendo hasn't officially released Arceus to anywhere and only has unofficially released Shayman in an accidental leak outside Japan, Arceus is inaccessible (without hacks).

Hmm...
You're definitely proving your point. But if you're an avid Pokemon fan, why don't I see you in the Poke Center? (course, it could be because I'm rarely there nowadays)
You should've been here during the "Glorious Era" or so it was called. We were making ideas for the 5th gen... Good times.

 

[Charizard92]

Yeah, I haven't really been active, namely due to other game series *hack* metroid *hack* kirby. Besides, I'm not that good. Around last year was when I learned about half the stuff you must know by heart (like effort values, it seriously took that ****ing long)

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

I don't blame you. EVs can be hard to learn about, but for practically anyone to have a chance in a match against a veteran they must thoroughy know what it is.

 

[Itburns]

Hey... Charizard92, you were poster 493 in this thread.
Anywho...



I apologize for the inconvenience, but I do not have the items required to make videos. (I doubt my mom would let me anyways...)

Basically what you do is dash, turn around as if you're doing a RAR, SH, use Rock Smash/Flamethrower in that direction, and then B-Reversal. Charizard will continue to do RS/FT, but he'll turn around and will be moving backwards in midair while he's doing it, provided you're DIing backwards. It's sort of like a fake out. (Charizard learned Fake Out!)

Hopefully if pants or someone that can make vids understands this, that person would make a vid about it.

Unfortunetly I am still wii-less.

But I do know what you are talking about. The flamethrower is awesome off a full jump B reversal.. I just cant do it consistently... I';ll try to get on it as soon as I can though

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Okay. Thank you, pants. I appreciate it. (I'm actually contributing to a website in some (minor) way... lol)

I'd also like to say, like pants said in the PT-itis thread, Charizard plays a power and keep away game. Using this "retreating RS/FT", it strengthens the keep away.

 

[Charizard92]

Now, I think there are three major types of characters that Charizard does poorly against (please tell me if there are more):

The faster character: Face it, when it comes to weaknesses, Charizard is like any heavy weight. Against anyone faster in the speed department (namely running speed), and Charizard is on a silver platter. The good news is that Charizard has one advantage over every other heavyweight, he is fast. Being the 7th fastest, that means this total group is actually quite small, and it is more like 5 characters here because C. Falcon is one of them, and he sucks. The other 5 (Meta Knight, Shiek, ZSS, Fox, and possible Sonic as well), causes problems.

Projectile spammers: Here's a simple formula for explaining this:
Charizard-decent projectile+large size=target practice
Due to how big Charzard is (and lack of a far ranged decent projectile), Characters like the Starfox members (Fox and Falco [Note, I didn't say characters from the series, Wolf has a more pathetic projectile than the other two) have an easy time getting away with him.

Jugglers: Anyone who's primary method is to literally get Charizard in the air and keep him there (aka juggling) will get away with it. Charizard has little (if any) defense if someone decides to juggle him, so it is possible to keep him in the air for some time.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

Now, I think there are three major types of characters that Charizard does poorly against (please tell me if there are more):

The faster character: Face it, when it comes to weaknesses, Charizard is like any heavy weight. Against anyone faster in the speed department (namely running speed), and Charizard is on a silver platter. The good news is that Charizard has one advantage over every other heavyweight, he is fast. Being the 7th fastest, that means this total group is actually quite small, and it is more like 5 characters here because C. Falcon is one of them, and he sucks. The other 5 (Meta Knight, Shiek, ZSS, Fox, and possible Sonic as well), causes problems.

Projectile spammers: Here's a simple formula for explaining this:
Charizard-decent projectile+large size=target practice
Due to how big Charzard is (and lack of a far ranged decent projectile), Characters like the Starfox members (Fox and Falco [Note, I didn't say characters from the series, Wolf has a more pathetic projectile than the other two) have an easy time getting away with him.

Jugglers: Anyone who's primary method is to literally get Charizard in the air and keep him there (aka juggling) will get away with it. Charizard has little (if any) defense if someone decides to juggle him, so it is possible to keep him in the air for some time.

I think Toon Link is a combination of all three of those. Yes, he may run a bit slower than Charizard, but you have to admit he's a speedy little fellow. Of course, he's got that crazy projectile game. And third, you've heard of the legendary B-air chains. U-air may also add to this problem, and Charizard's D-air is to slow too counter it.

 

[Charizard92]

I was kinda thinking Fox too... (Faster than Char, Projectile, and the fact that he has a wicked U game). Then again, Charizard also has a wicked U game, so sometimes it's who vaults the other into the air first.

 

[Albert.]

so this post maybe belongs in the "moveset discussion thread" but I can't wait until this move is eventually discussed....

Charizard's Nair

It seems like a highly under-rated move. I SHNair spam alot and it can really mess up some of the heavey/fast faller characters

The hitbox is big, and long lasting. sometimes they think they've evaded the move only to be hit right after. the move is actually quick, or rather, there's not much ending lag so you can jump and do another right after.
You can chain them together and it also chains into Fairs or Bairs quite well.

It's def. not impenetrable though.

 

[Toby.]

SS Rock smash -> Forward momentum nair -> Upsmash/Flamethrower/Ftilt.

Win.

It probably wouldn't work, though.

On the other hand Forward momentum nair->ftilt is easy to pull off and does around 20% fresh. I like to do nair->fsmash for the lulz, but its a stupidly risky move.

 

[Onxy]

I love Charizard's Nair...

 

[Charizard92]

OK, I'm not exactly sure I said this here, but now since nobody has posted for... 9 days, I decided to mention something that I have said before, I just don't know If i said so here. Charizard has a semi-chain grab. In case You are about to ask "What the **** is a semi-chain grab" let me explain. Dedede has a full Chain grab, which means he can dthrow, move forward, grab, and dthrow again. Charizard's grabs under normal circumstances, leave opponents prone after two throws, so it is technically NOT a full chain grab. However, human opponents will typically try to avoid being prone, so they will typically do something so that they aren't lying on the ground (that is what I call prone), so they will AT to avoid dong so (ex air dodges). Charizard can actually use this to his advantage, as he can throw, follow, grab, throw, repeat. Under normal circumstances, Charizard can't link throws after awhile, but with the opponent trying to AT, he can perform something a normal person will call a chain grab.

I'm trying to redeem myself here a bit.

 

[Toby.]

That be oooold news. It's come up in many threads, including this one, many times.

It usually only works for one extra throw from 0%.

That having been said, yeah, its useful. Fun too ^_^

 

[Charizard92]

It actually makes the chain throwing last longer, but anything useful is a really good tool.

 

[Toby.]

What you're talking about is just reading their reaction to get in a grab. Every character that can grab can do this

But once again yeah, its handy. It's more enjoyable with sonic's dthrow.

 

[Ussi]

Strategies for playing as Charizard

I happen to be going to a tourney that has a slight chance of allowing the PT hack where you play as one pokemon and I want to play as Charizard the whole singles bracket through. So any common strategies I should use as playing as Charizard will be helpful and appreciated.

I looked at the guide but it hasn't been updated since march and I'm sure new things for Zard have come up since then.

<3 Charizard

 

[CT Chia]

dont worry the PT hack will be enabled there lol
id like to see how it holds up in a tourney

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Charizard is a very good character, you may know the basis.. so lets go on advanced stuff:
Rocksmash counter: Zard pulls out the rock, so the oponent hits it, breaks the rock, gets hitted by the rock and zard gets happy :D.. rocksmash is a pretty good move to us eon any situation ( damage racking, killing, stoping approaches, approaching) but dont spam it, zard has enough good tools to mix it up
On low percent people is gonna try to combo you, so get happy with: retreating rock smashing, shieldgrabbing, jabbing a lot, flamethrower and maybe usmash because its fast and covers all your body, if you get caught in a string of attacks use fly's superarmor as a last ressort
Maybe i will write some latter, but i think you should better go to the "Charizard tactical discussion"

 

[Bestiarius]

One of my favorite tricks is especially useful on Battlefield, but it really works just about anywhere. If you're under one of two lower platforms, do your jab combo quickly to hit them toward or off the edge of the stage. Then, use Flamethrower to keep them on the edge or off. This is a great way to rack up around 30% in damage and even cause them to panic and make mistakes, such as incorrectly recovering and dying. If they manage to get past you and the flame, turn around, grab, and do a back throw in order to start the whole process over again. If you're confident in your aim, you can try the dair spike, but this method is much safer. Note: This will work on just about any stage (I just play on Battlefield a lot) and on any characters, but especially well against characters with recoveries that only work well going a certain direction, like Ike or Donkey Kong. Neither of those examples have a good diagonal recovery, so it works well against them. Plus, it's even better against Ness and Lucas because their recovery move is separate from themselves and they can easily mess up under the pressure.

 

[DemonFart]

really i would suggest messaging charizard92 as he is a charizard master.

 

[typh]

press right and b (or left and b if the situation calls for it)

 

[Charizard92]

Thank you, and now: a really simple guide on the flying orange 5'7" dragon we know as Charizard.

1: Grabs, best, thing, ever: OK, that might have been an exaggeration but Charizard has among the best grab games in the game, and among the largest grab ranges as well (well, not including tethers at least). Shield grabs are one of Charizard's best strategies, as it allows for you to execute one of the best pros of Charizard. At low (and I mean starting match low) percentages, Charizard can link throws. Try a fthrow to Uthrow (at the second throw, it becomes harder to link throws unless the opponent techs. Cpu's never tech, so that's why I know this) to lead to...

2: juggling, Charizard's own double sided sword: Charizard's U moves (Utilt, Uair, Usmash, etc) are among Charizard's best. Because of this, Charizard is the prime example of a juggler. He keeps the opponent above him, and racks up damage that way. Charizard's Usmash is his only really practical smash too. While Charizard, can easily juggle, he can also be easily juggled, as he's large and has little defense to prevent juggling once commenced. While talking about keeping opponents in the air, how bout'...

3: Air game, off stage killer: Outside using the Uair to continue juggling, Charizard has two aerial moves that can be considered "great", Fair, and Bair. Fair has an awkward hit box, as in it barely hurts (and doesn't stun) enemies from far away, yet deals around 11% (and massive knockback) when up close. Bair, is a bit better, as a sweetspot bair is around as powerful in terms of knockback, and possibly more powerful in terms of damage (and pwnage). The remaining two moves, nair and dair, ain't as useful. Dair is good for gimping, being a meteor, but has no real use outside that. Nair, the only real time I use nair is to stop juggling (and even then it isn't as reliable as many would hope).

4: Rock smash, the new Falcon punch, only better: Rock Smash, if you ask almost anybody, they'd say it's a good move. If you ask several PT's, Rock Smash is even better than Falcon Punch (mythically, and in reality [not in the actual Pokemon games, it is actually quite weak as an attack. If it wasn't required (being an HM) you'd never use it]). It has a dual ability. Normally, it does around as much knockback as a typical smash attack, & 18% damage. If you sweetspot it, it can deal around 45% damage, effectively taking a minute of hitting and running or so in a second. Careful, Like Falcon Punch, it isn't a move you can spam (as every n00b fails to learn) as it is punishable if you use it all the time, and it just fails on every level it takes to be a spamable move (rather slow execution, not a projectile, etc.)

5: the other two specials: Outside the practically godly rock smash, Charizard also has flamethrower, and fly. Flamethrower serves as Charizard's signature move, and as a decent damage racker. It works like bowser's fire breath, except shorter range and lasts longer ( I actually tested this). Fly, It serves as a recovery. It also serves as a combo breaker and as a potential KO move (under circumstance). Not much else to say there.

6: the other two tilts: Utilt is a great way to juggle. Charizard's other two tilts, are a great way to kill. Ftilt and Dtilt are essentially similar, there differences are:
Ftilt has longer range
Ftilt can be angled
Dtilt is more powerful
Dtilt can KO sooner
Dtilt executes faster (not by much though)
ftilt has a flame bit to it
Most non-pyros typically use Dtilt to kill because it works sooner. Most pyros use Ftilt for the last reason.
Both of them are also sweetspot moves, with Ftilt being the tip of the tail and dtilt being Charizard's mouth (don't worry, Charizard is Omnivorus [most Pokemon are])

7: The other two smashes: Usmash executes quickly and has a practical purpose. When dealing with the other two smashes, the praise ends here. Fsmash is only useful as a kill move, and you will rarely see the opportunity to use it. Dsmash sends opponents upwards, which other moves can also do. Dsmash also has this weird hitbox, which is more of a hit line, as it only can hit grounded opponents. If they see it coming (and there is several frames to do so), all they need to do is jump and now they can start/resume kicking your ***.

8: caution, problems ahead: In case you're wondering, Charizard likes light, big, slow characters, especially if they have a poor recovery (Jigglypuff, Bowser, Jigglypuff, and Ivysaur are the best examples of this). Charizard, however, has three nightmares:
Hit and runners: Think Sonic for a sec. You know how he starts attacking and then runs away? Well, Charizard hates most people in that group because he is such a big target, why every other heavy & bulky character hates them. Charizard has 1 advantage over the other big bulky slow characters, in terms of running speed, he actually isn't slow. Charizard is the 7th fastest in the game (tied with Pikachu), so hit and runners have to tread with caution. Sonic himself is at a slight disadvantage to our Char. Of all of Charizard's nightmares, this is the least severe.
Projectile spammers: This is a rather severe threat, as Charizard has NO defense when it comes to dealing with a projectile, mostly because he doesn't have an actual projectile of his own (don't say flamethrower, that barely even counts). Snake, Falco, Diddy, Fox, Dear gawd they serve trouble. But not as nearly as much as...
JUGGLERS!: Yes, this is the reason I labeled it as Charizard's double sided sword. Charizard is possibly the WORST (if not among the worst) at dealing with characters below him. Outside nair, he has no actual defense against them, so a character can just utilt or uair Charizard to a rather troubling point. Lucario (as of when this was written) and Fox (as far as I can tell) will be nightmares on the level of Dante's inferno.

Hope this helps anybody who want's to pick up PT also master Charizard. Happy Rock smashing/throwing/scorching/whatever...ing.