Charizard Tactical Discussion

[typh]

^ i really like this post

 

[Palpi]

Chibo...Cot4 allowing the hack?

 

[Charizard92]

^ i really like this post

Thank you. I REALLY AM THE CHARIZARD EXPERT!

 

[Steeler]

i really want to go to cot4 now

:\

also at low percent, a sweet rock smash (where the guy doesn't receive much knockback) leads into a grab or usmash

always remember your OoS options. zard has some of the best. grab, obviously. rock smash if they land in front of you and are more punishable than a grab requires. usmash is really **** good, it interrupts mk's dair spam when timed right. sh bair is solid, it kills light characters at less than 100 near the edge, btw. rock smash backward is good too. fly seems like a good idea, but it's too easy to DI out of.

the best offensive use for fly is to hold down when you are about to grab the ledge, so you pass by it and hit the opponent standing there with the last few hits, making your chance of hitting the strong hitbox more likely.

umm charizard can be used against pretty much...every character if you know what you are doing. he's pretty good. i'd say the worst situation is projectile spammers on FD.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

3: Air game, off stage killer: Outside using the Uair to continue juggling, Charizard has two aerial moves that can be considered "great", Fair, and Bair.

You forgot Nair.

Then there's Dair for delicious spiking.

 

[Steeler]

zard's the only character with multi-jumps and single hit meteor spike (sit down kirby)

master it. you can spike mk's with that ****.

 

[Ussi]

thanks Charizard92, it helps.

Question: Can Charizard run off FF dair to spike people and survive?

 

[Syrus_Draco]

If you know how to use your jumps right and avoid damage yeah. His fly and jumps have enough range to get him back should you FF.

 

[Charizard92]

@ Draco: I did. Dair is only really helpful at gimping, and Nair is only really helpful at getting out of a juggle

@ ussi: Charizard officially has 1 ground jump, 2 air jumps, and the up b for recovery. This means you can use two jumps and still be capable of recovering. In theory, you can use all three air jumps to KO an opponent, but I never have the guts to do so.

 

[Steeler]

nair is a good follow up in the air when they are at a 45 degree angle to you, or close to it. since uair's range isn't THAT good and fair has the knockback problem.

 

[Syrus_Draco]

nair is a good follow up in the air when they are at a 45 degree angle to you, or close to it. since uair's range isn't THAT good and fair has the knockback problem.

I tend to pop in a Uair every once in awhile. For one, since it's not used often it's just fun to mess with your opponent and hit them with it. It's more useful at high percents, maybe 50+, not so much for a kill but just to keep them up in the air longer.

Not a move I use often, but at low percents you can Uair > Uair > Fly.

@ Draco: I did. Dair is only really helpful at gimping, and Nair is only really helpful at getting out of a juggle

Nair has SO much more uses than just that :[

 

[Steeler]

nair is a cool edgeguard sometimes. if you aren't sure what they'll do off the ledge, just nair when they are about to get off since it lasts so long and hits around you.

 

[Bomber7]

When you are flying to recover onto the stage and the chance you make it and land saftly, but happen to land by your opponent, with no landing lag, you can instantly follow up with a smash attack. I prefer fsmash but it depends on where your opponent is. Also abuse his grabbing ability, rock smah and flame thrower.

 

[Retro Gaming]

I like to use Fair and Uair when on the ledge to clear it. If you spend your Fair cool down in the air near the edge you can land lagless. Its also pretty easy to sweet-spot as you come up from the ledge.

 

[Charizard92]

Retro, did you move an entire thread onto the tactical discussion? It confused me for a bit.

 

[Retro Gaming]

The subjects were identical but I didn't just close the thread because some nice discussion went down.

Yes, I put the other thread in here.

 

[Umpadumpalump]

Is jab canccel to Usmash useful?

 

[Charizard92]

Again, I rarely use Nair due to the fact that it's just easier to tilt the control stick some direction. I already mentioned the weird hit box mechanic with Fair.

For the jab to smash combo, I honestly don't know, I haven't tried it yet.

 

[Fearmy]

i'd only use nair for those who don't expect it do auto cancel, it moves pretty slow, and it's actually a free down tilt if auto cancelled right if you do a C-stick down.... which is weird because it's supposed to be a down smash :X

 

[Steeler]

usmash has a good hitbox...

but not THAT good lol. i don't think you'd land the usmash after jab unless they SDI'd through you or something.

 

[Ussi]

Is there a list of Zard's kill %? I'd like to know what move is effective as which percent . Dthrow kills by 130% right?

 

[Palpi]

I am still not convinced that that a SH non FF nair to "hyphen-smash" usmash isn't a combo.

I pulled it off on a wolf and ditto charizard today.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Is there a list of Zard's kill %? I'd like to know what move is effective as which percent . Dthrow kills by 130% right?

Much higher. Around 150% if you slap the opponents controller out of their hands while you do it.

 

[Charizard92]

The reason for stealing the controller is because Dthrow is actually rather easy to DI out of (Just press up). Uthrow, has around as much KO power on FD.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Hey guys... how about if we make a list of Zard's (and the other pokemon) kills %s???

 

[typh]

I am still not convinced that that a SH non FF nair to "hyphen-smash" usmash isn't a combo.

I pulled it off on a wolf and ditto charizard today.

Good luck hitting the nair in the first place

garbage move

 

[Charizard92]

Good luck hitting the nair in the first place

garbage move

Except to prevent juggling, the other moves can do just as well.

 

[Ussi]

Question! What is the general best strategy for Zard's throws? It's so easy to grab but I don't know what to do with my throws. Help please.

 

[infernovia]

Zard has grab release stuff, or atleast it puts them in a REALLY uncomfortable position even though its not a true chain. So grab -> pummel -> jab/grab usually works. Also, be aware that zard does have bthrow to fthrow on a few characters at near 0%.

Out of all the throws, I like bthrow and fthrow the best. Dthrow is just tooo DIable.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Charizard's Grabs are above average to say the least, but I agree with the majority that Dthrow is too easy to DI since the animation is sooooo freakin' long. However, Dthrow does have high knockback if you really want opponents to get away from you. The problem with Uthrow, though powerful, is that Charizard's game when an opponent is above him is weak compared to his side game. Only Usmash is reliable on the run, but that's easily punished if you miss.

Charizard's side throws are substantial in damage and knockback. I prefer Bathrow myself since it's quicker and seems more reliable on a horizontal knockback.

 

[Charizard92]

Question! What is the general best strategy for Zard's throws? It's so easy to grab but I don't know what to do with my throws. Help please.

Well, if you're at zero, Fthrow, follow, grab, then Uthrow. This allows you to start juggling opponents.

 

[typh]

charizard's GRAB is amazing, charizard's THROWS are terribad

hence why i rarely throw and tend to grab release tricksies waaaaaay more than i probably should

imo just uthrow and save your f/b throw for kills i guess? idk

bthrow is easily his best as it sends them lower horizontal than the others

NOTE: non-troll post

 

[Charizard92]

^ That is possible, but you are known for trolling, so 80% of what you say is discredited (unless you have a note saying that you aren't trolling)

Charizard's Dthrow is pointless.

Charizard's Fthrow and Bthrow are rather good and it is possible to link throws

Charizard's Uthrow can be used to set up juggling.

 

[Steeler]

the throws aren't bad, just average. uthrow is cool for killing sometimes because they might be di'ing up for dthrow/bthrow/fthrow

 

[Syrus_Draco]

His DThrow is awesome no matter what you fruits say.

Nothing is more satisfying that putting someone under Charizard and getting fire to the face. Seriously.

It's a good kill throw or knock back if ya wanna switch.

 

[Retro Gaming]

The problem with Uthrow, though powerful, is that Charizard's game when an opponent is above him is weak compared to his side game. Only Usmash is reliable on the run, but that's easily punished if you miss.

I think Charizard does fine when he's below someone else. Utilt has tons of range, Uair lasts forever, what isn't there to like? He even dashes fast enough that you can make space between yourself and the opponent then slap them with Bair or something if you really want to.

I usually just use Uthrow for damage, since it is his strongest. Fthrow/Bthrow to get them off the stage. I don't really kill that often with his actual throws, though. Maybe on Corneria or Halberd.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Agree with retro
Anyway, i dont mind too much in the damage diference between uthrow and b/fthrow, its just 1%....
I use Dtrhow to get people to a bad positon, its kinda predictable where they will be after receiving a dthrow, use that to your advantage

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Range, Charizard has, Priority, he doesn't really have. At least compared the many characters when they strike from above. Priority and disjointed hitboxes are also a factor. MK for example, Snake, Peach, Ness, Charizard himself in certain cases.

I find Charizard also has a problem attacking people when they are diagonally upward from his position. Short hopping puts Charizard at risky of counter since he's a big target.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

I find Charizard also has a problem attacking people when they are diagonally upward from his position. Short hopping puts Charizard at risky of counter since he's a big target.

Short hop rock smash :D

 

[Umpadumpalump]

usmash has a good hitbox...

but not THAT good lol. i don't think you'd land the usmash after jab unless they SDI'd through you or something.

I do it after the second jab, it lands if they don't DI at all I was just wondering if it was fast enough to be considered a combo.