-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Choosing Your Starter: IKE take TWO
- Thread starter Bomber7
- Start date
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I'd start Squirtle just to stay far away from Charizard in this one. I don't remember the exact percentage Pikachu and chaingrab Charizard to, but it was pretty significant if I'm remembering correctly. Even without a chaingrab, I feel Squirtle does the best of the three. Charizard gets juggled rather easily but is still capable of knocking Pikachu out...just not as easily as Squirtle can. I feel Ivysaur does decent here.
On the whole, chaingrabs are lame.
On the whole, chaingrabs are lame.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
It's either 70% or 80%. :/
CoonTail
Smash Lord
From other posts I believe its 0 to 86% but as steeler said if the pikachu even hits you with one thunderbolt or a non DI'd d-smash the chain grab is halved.
Overall squirtle is the best option for straight forward fighting Pika......I would like to see what Ivy can do here because if we could run Ivy till late percents then get zard in for the kill we could get the most out of Ivy because I feel Ivy's spacing will cause pikachu issues then once Ivy has hit the wall of fatigue zard can finish up the job at high percentages and escape the CG. Just an idea but straight forward Squirtle obv does it best.
Overall squirtle is the best option for straight forward fighting Pika......I would like to see what Ivy can do here because if we could run Ivy till late percents then get zard in for the kill we could get the most out of Ivy because I feel Ivy's spacing will cause pikachu issues then once Ivy has hit the wall of fatigue zard can finish up the job at high percentages and escape the CG. Just an idea but straight forward Squirtle obv does it best.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
@Bomber: It's a quote from the movie Anchorman. Look it up. High-larious.
@Coontail: You mean putting myself down? I just know how n00bish I am and just wish I could have some real (lagless, i.e., hopefully non-wifi) tourney experience. But thanks for the tips. I'll try some, but I don't have 6 hours a day to devote to Brawl.
About Pikachu: I mained Pikachu way back in my Melee days and I like him in Brawl so I'll give my input. Squirtle seems best for the aforementioned reasons, so I'd say start with him. I'd sack Ivy at high %'s because Ivy is stupidly bad here. With Zard, I'll give the classic advice: don't get hit. Zard I think can probably hold his own, but no better. Whatever you do, DO NOT GET ABOVE PIKACHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, I'm done.
@Coontail: You mean putting myself down? I just know how n00bish I am and just wish I could have some real (lagless, i.e., hopefully non-wifi) tourney experience. But thanks for the tips. I'll try some, but I don't have 6 hours a day to devote to Brawl.
About Pikachu: I mained Pikachu way back in my Melee days and I like him in Brawl so I'll give my input. Squirtle seems best for the aforementioned reasons, so I'd say start with him. I'd sack Ivy at high %'s because Ivy is stupidly bad here. With Zard, I'll give the classic advice: don't get hit. Zard I think can probably hold his own, but no better. Whatever you do, DO NOT GET ABOVE PIKACHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, I'm done.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Well, according to old data, no. At least, not according to the super-effectiveness thing in that was in the AT thread before that thread was assimilated into reflex's guide.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Yeah, Sakurai didn't go all out on super-effectiveness. If he did, Charizard would hardly go flying at all from a Rock Smash.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
Actually, effectiveness only applies to PT, and the resistances are more or less useless because Squirtle doesn't want to resist weak fire attacks and the strong ones can still kill him well. The other two's resistances are only on PT's teams.
On the other hand, weakness to Fire for Ivysaur is bad almost all around (good for like Flamethrower only).
Long story short: Sakurai hated PT.
On the other hand, weakness to Fire for Ivysaur is bad almost all around (good for like Flamethrower only).
Long story short: Sakurai hated PT.
CHaracter Discussion: PIT
OK so against pit we got an aerial fight here so we have the suggestion of starting with Squirtle and Charizard. Thoughts?
*I know, we spam rock smash, they will spam shield and we will lose.
Any other thoughts than that listed above.
*On a side note: Do y'all want to skip the discussion for Pokemon Trainer or attempt to have one for each and individual pokemon.
OK so against pit we got an aerial fight here so we have the suggestion of starting with Squirtle and Charizard. Thoughts?
*I know, we spam rock smash, they will spam shield and we will lose.
Any other thoughts than that listed above.
*On a side note: Do y'all want to skip the discussion for Pokemon Trainer or attempt to have one for each and individual pokemon.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
*I think we should thouroughly discuss PT. I mean, I would say ask the PT boards, but that's us, so we should comment on us the way we would get other boards to help us with their characters.
I think starting Squirtle is best because I like Squirtle in the air a lot more than I like Pit, just from handling both character, plus, Squirtle can combo better and is faster in many ways.
Charizard is also really good here. Refrain from Rock Smashing unless you're doing it to an off the edge Pit. Try to grab him and use Zard's grab game to get him off the edge. Then Flamethrower *****.
I think starting Squirtle is best because I like Squirtle in the air a lot more than I like Pit, just from handling both character, plus, Squirtle can combo better and is faster in many ways.
Charizard is also really good here. Refrain from Rock Smashing unless you're doing it to an off the edge Pit. Try to grab him and use Zard's grab game to get him off the edge. Then Flamethrower *****.
T-block
B2B TST
imo skip PT...this is a thread about choosing a starter, which doesn't really make sense in PT dittos. it would be fun to discuss the matchup though, but we should make a separate thread for it
PT vs PT would be more effort that it would be worth.
Squirtle is good. Your options are pretty much a few frames faster on the ground or in the air and arrows won't bother you.
Ivysaur does ok here. IIRC they have it at about 45:55. Pit's range isn't that great which allows Ivy to function pretty well. Ivy isn't bad but Squirtle is better so why not.
Charizard as always gets juggled and comboed at low percentages which isn't very much fun. On the bright side the difference in KO ability is really dramatic so if you start with Zard you may be able to get well into Pit's second stock before he can get the KO.
I'd say start with Squirtle. You should be able to either KO first or set up a switch so Ivy can get the KO. Stock tank with Zard.
Squirtle is good. Your options are pretty much a few frames faster on the ground or in the air and arrows won't bother you.
Ivysaur does ok here. IIRC they have it at about 45:55. Pit's range isn't that great which allows Ivy to function pretty well. Ivy isn't bad but Squirtle is better so why not.
Charizard as always gets juggled and comboed at low percentages which isn't very much fun. On the bright side the difference in KO ability is really dramatic so if you start with Zard you may be able to get well into Pit's second stock before he can get the KO.
I'd say start with Squirtle. You should be able to either KO first or set up a switch so Ivy can get the KO. Stock tank with Zard.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
Ivy does ok against zard
But zard is probably the best starter
You should make the choices based on who they start with
Ivy or squirtle: Charizard
Charizard or Squirle: Ivy
so if they start with squirtle start with who you are best with
But zard is probably the best starter
You should make the choices based on who they start with
Ivy or squirtle: Charizard
Charizard or Squirle: Ivy
so if they start with squirtle start with who you are best with
CoonTail
Smash Lord
-Guys cmon Bomber is gonna hate us were way off topic here PT v PT should be put on hold till we are done with pit.
T-block
B2B TST
charizard ditto is so lol...rock smash fasterrrrrr
but yes, squirtle handles pit easily enough, so maximize your time with him imo
but yes, squirtle handles pit easily enough, so maximize your time with him imo
Magik0722
Smash Champion
IMO this matchup is all about charizard
.... I go to sleep for a few hours and I come back to this? -_-
O well off to school. so far majority don't want PT discussion. When I get back today if theres more posts against it, then I will remove it when I get home.
Carry on. (MORE PIT DISCUSSION)
O well off to school. so far majority don't want PT discussion. When I get back today if theres more posts against it, then I will remove it when I get home.
Carry on. (MORE PIT DISCUSSION)
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Tien, what do you mean when you say Pit's range isn't that great? Pit's arrows have unlimited range. Yeah, his other attacks are very limited, but he definitely outranges Ivy with arrows. Plus, most of his attacks seem to be faster. I would say it's 60-40 his favor, but even if I'm wrong, the other 2 definitely have better options.
On the PT ditto, I would always start Charizard simply because he is the only one that does not have a disadvantage to either of the other 2. I think Ivy is disadvantaged to Zard, but that point has been contested. If I was a betting man, my money would go with Zard in a fight over Ivy.
On the PT ditto, I would always start Charizard simply because he is the only one that does not have a disadvantage to either of the other 2. I think Ivy is disadvantaged to Zard, but that point has been contested. If I was a betting man, my money would go with Zard in a fight over Ivy.
T-block
B2B TST
i actually always start ivysaur against PT, but i've been liking ivysaur vs squirtle less and less lately
aerial-wise squirtle beats out pit pretty easily, and squirtle's aerials are definitely faster than pit's.
aerial-wise squirtle beats out pit pretty easily, and squirtle's aerials are definitely faster than pit's.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Precisely. This is why I would say start with Squirtle or Charizard (because Flamethrower eats Icarus Wings for breakfast
).Lol. Obviously when I say Pit has limited range I'm not talking about arrows. Of course arrows outrange Ivy but they're not something that are going to shut Ivy down completely. I'd say 45:55 but 40:60 is also possible. Squirtle is definitely better and Charizard probably is too.
I have a question, why wouldn't Ivysuar do well against Pit to start. I know our primary spacing tool (razorleaf) can be reflected, but Ivy is the anti aerial pokemon; why not start out with her first?
Or am I contradicting myself by saying it's probably best to let Squirtle build up your momentum and then blast pit away with Ivysaur and that is her primary purpose in this?
Or am I contradicting myself by saying it's probably best to let Squirtle build up your momentum and then blast pit away with Ivysaur and that is her primary purpose in this?
Popertop
Smash Champion
good pits will know his ground game and know how to use those options
his Fsmash is fast
and his grabs don't suck he can chaingrab charizard I'm pretty sure
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Bomber, Ivysaur vs. Pit just strikes me as too slow. Sure, Ivy is the anti-air master, and Pit is angelic in the air (pun soooooo intended), but Pit is much faster than Ivy on the ground. Arrows can annoy Ivy to death, plus they also have decent knockback. Pit can also combo (not truly, but pretty dang well) using throws, jabs and Angel Ring. I just always have trouble finding good approaching options with Ivy against Pit, even more so than usual with Ivy. It just feels too slow to me. I have trouble against cpu Pits with Ivy, so I really wouldn't feel comfortable against a human Pit with him. Now, I love the other two in this matchup. It could actually be a case of the other two just doing so much better that I don't really consider Ivy.
2 fthrows>another throw from 0% is hardly anything to stress about. Its very avoidable. Once you hit 15-20% it's not going to do anything.
I have a lot of experience vs Pit. I have friendlies with him on a regular basis and Squirtle/Ivy is always the best choice, depending on the stage. As I've mentioned before, you can punish an attempt at a glide attack with ivys usmash. RL is slower than arrows but they cancel each other out.
Squirtle is the safer starter. Get around the spam, SDI the fsmash into him and at times the second hit won't connect. Forward hp charge kills work well, since if the pit isn't curving them down, you can slide right under them and BAM!
SSS ftw.
I have a lot of experience vs Pit. I have friendlies with him on a regular basis and Squirtle/Ivy is always the best choice, depending on the stage. As I've mentioned before, you can punish an attempt at a glide attack with ivys usmash. RL is slower than arrows but they cancel each other out.
Squirtle is the safer starter. Get around the spam, SDI the fsmash into him and at times the second hit won't connect. Forward hp charge kills work well, since if the pit isn't curving them down, you can slide right under them and BAM!
SSS ftw.
would it be best to have a Squirtle-Ivy battery?
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Personally, I'd prefer Zard-Suirtle, but that's just me.
I'm meh-ish ok with Charizard start but you know darn well depending on the stage, Pit will open up by spamming his arrows and unless you are good with maneuvering Charizard, you are going nowhere and you will take damage and it ill become frustrating. However, I know once Pit gets in Charizard's range, he's pretty much screwed.
Popertop
Smash Champion
just walk up and powershield the arrows, it's not hard
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Powershields and air dodges I view pits arrows not much different than lasers from space animals jus manuver around them and be smart once you get close youll know hell look for the CG if you open the match that way.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
Remember, though, the arrows are the most controllable projectile in the game aside from nikita. Pit can hit with those anywhere.
Popertop
Smash Champion
and if he knows your looking for him to be looking for the chain grab then here come moar arrows lol
I accidentally yomi layers lol
I accidentally yomi layers lol