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Choosing Your Starter: IKE take TWO
- Thread starter Bomber7
- Start date
I have A LOT of experience vs the Dorf. My close friend mains him and has the best Ganondorf in my state.
Ivy best starter. Anyone who has a projectile annoys him and forces an approach. Ganon fails at approach. He has 3 options:
Flame choke
Wizards foot
Auto cancel dair spam (thunderstorm)
All of these can be easily avoided and punished by ivysaur. This is one of the few matches that id use bulletseed twice/thrice in a row. And ivy will combo Ganon to holy hell. Ivy for sure.
Squirtle dies hella quick, as in, get hit 5 times and squirtles probably close to death. Even though he can hit n run, it may not be enough. Squirtle won't be able to kill Ganondorf till after 140%, and by that stage he's fatigued.
Charizard is a good bet, but stock tanking won't work vs a powerhouse like Ganondorf. One fair on him offstage gets you a kill though, so I guess that's worth a mention.
Ivy best starter. Anyone who has a projectile annoys him and forces an approach. Ganon fails at approach. He has 3 options:
Flame choke
Wizards foot
Auto cancel dair spam (thunderstorm)
All of these can be easily avoided and punished by ivysaur. This is one of the few matches that id use bulletseed twice/thrice in a row. And ivy will combo Ganon to holy hell. Ivy for sure.
Squirtle dies hella quick, as in, get hit 5 times and squirtles probably close to death. Even though he can hit n run, it may not be enough. Squirtle won't be able to kill Ganondorf till after 140%, and by that stage he's fatigued.
Charizard is a good bet, but stock tanking won't work vs a powerhouse like Ganondorf. One fair on him offstage gets you a kill though, so I guess that's worth a mention.
Megapants
Smash Apprentice
Multi-hit attacks are the bane of Ganon's existence. Ivy is a solid choice here. You can easily rack up a ton of damage on a Ganon by just using bullet seed, n-air chains and b-air walling. Then if you want to go for a kill, Ivy has the capability to do so, or you can make a quick switch to Zard. And, as Vermiis mentioned, razor leaf camping forces an approach, which Ganon is pretty terrible at.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
I agree completely agree that Ivysaur makes a great starter against Ganon as well. I'm sure I had a reason for listing only Charizard (who also makes a fantastic choice), but now I can't remember it for the life of me.
Squirtle is a reasonable choice to start with, too, but I wouldn't recommend him. Kind of a huge risk involved.
Squirtle is a reasonable choice to start with, too, but I wouldn't recommend him. Kind of a huge risk involved.
yeah I would say that all 3 are pretty good to start with.
At least with a slow person like Ganon, you could use squirtle's speed to rack damage and I'm sure with aerial combo's get him off stage quickly, then switch to Ivy where you can do whatever you want with him.
Starting with Ivy is fine too, because like we all know, Ivy's move set was made to basically punish heavyweights like Ganon. plus Ivy has total control on the range game.
Charizard is also really great because he too can have total control of the range game, though it will be mid range, not long range like Ivy. Also Charz can stock tank and has really great move set against Ganon.
Those are just my thoughts. I don't play really any good ganons but from just minor experience I find all 3 capable to start and find huge flexibility within going against him when it comes to starting and having a strategy to follow up with it.
At least with a slow person like Ganon, you could use squirtle's speed to rack damage and I'm sure with aerial combo's get him off stage quickly, then switch to Ivy where you can do whatever you want with him.
Starting with Ivy is fine too, because like we all know, Ivy's move set was made to basically punish heavyweights like Ganon. plus Ivy has total control on the range game.
Charizard is also really great because he too can have total control of the range game, though it will be mid range, not long range like Ivy. Also Charz can stock tank and has really great move set against Ganon.
Those are just my thoughts. I don't play really any good ganons but from just minor experience I find all 3 capable to start and find huge flexibility within going against him when it comes to starting and having a strategy to follow up with it.
T-block
B2B TST
Yeah I gotta agree with Ivy here. As long as you're wary of his forward-b and down-b, it's really easy to outspace and punish. Bullet Seed is a godsend here, and you can force the approach with Razor Leaf. I play against a decent Ganondorf a lot, and I've gotten a fair number of early gimps on him with n-air spikes and sometimes b-throw. b-air is very cool for taking away his second jump, and a tether hog can take care of the rest. When you start Ivy it's very easy to get control over the flow of the game from the beginning and keep it throughout the match. Also, the switch to Charizard works out nicely... if you kill when you're at or below 80%, which is not unreasonable, you can switch to Charizard and gain some survivability. If you're playing against a Ganondorf that tends to use moves like u-air as a kill move, it's probably safer to switch to Charizard at higher percents.
Charizard makes a fine choice too, as Flamethrower and Rock Smash make approaching for Ganondorf stupidly difficult, and he gets gimp kills much easier than Ivysaur does, but unless you're really uncomfortable with Ivysaur, I'd probably start Ivy instead. If you want a fresh Charizard during your match, just don't switch Ivy out until she dies. You can still rack up some good damage with her even if she's fatigued.
Honestly, I've never found Squirtle to be all that great against Ganondorf. He's light and is forced to fight a lot closer than Ivysaur or Charizard. It's not like it's a terrible matchup, but there's really no point in starting with the riskiest of the 3. Heck, a lot of times if I have a stock lead I'll take Squirtle and jump in front of his forward-b recovery, even if I'm at lower percents, so that I can get a fresh Ivysaur going into a stock advantage.
Charizard makes a fine choice too, as Flamethrower and Rock Smash make approaching for Ganondorf stupidly difficult, and he gets gimp kills much easier than Ivysaur does, but unless you're really uncomfortable with Ivysaur, I'd probably start Ivy instead. If you want a fresh Charizard during your match, just don't switch Ivy out until she dies. You can still rack up some good damage with her even if she's fatigued.
Honestly, I've never found Squirtle to be all that great against Ganondorf. He's light and is forced to fight a lot closer than Ivysaur or Charizard. It's not like it's a terrible matchup, but there's really no point in starting with the riskiest of the 3. Heck, a lot of times if I have a stock lead I'll take Squirtle and jump in front of his forward-b recovery, even if I'm at lower percents, so that I can get a fresh Ivysaur going into a stock advantage.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Ivysaur is the best here for pretty much all the reasons everyone's mentioned. He just punishes heavies easily.
Charizard is a close second. An offstage fair ***** Ganondorf.
Squirtle, on the other hand, is more difficult to use since Ganondorf can KO Squirtle so easily. You have to be able to predict the opposing Ganondorf very well.
Charizard is a close second. An offstage fair ***** Ganondorf.
Squirtle, on the other hand, is more difficult to use since Ganondorf can KO Squirtle so easily. You have to be able to predict the opposing Ganondorf very well.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
wait wait wait.... ganon is a character in brawl?
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
All three are good to start, but ivy us the best.. followed by zard
However I have to wonder. If you were to start with Squirtle, couldn't you take advantage of ganon's laggy attacks and use water gun to space/ stop his approach and then kick his butt? Water gun imo is given less credit than it deserves. I use it alot now adays and it is useful.
Discussing about ganon is a weakness for me, I just kinda think this:
squirtle + my pretty good capabilities with him to **** almost everyone I see = can take out a slow/strong person like ganon or even start against him.
thought that's just my logic.
However I can agree with you guys saying that Ivy/Charz start up is best as well, they both can out range Ganny and have pretty powerful attacks not to mention with Ivy starting, you can make the switch to Charz which there is no wrong with that. However when starting with squirtle, making the switch to Ivy isn't that bad either.
Discussing about ganon is a weakness for me, I just kinda think this:
squirtle + my pretty good capabilities with him to **** almost everyone I see = can take out a slow/strong person like ganon or even start against him.
thought that's just my logic.
However I can agree with you guys saying that Ivy/Charz start up is best as well, they both can out range Ganny and have pretty powerful attacks not to mention with Ivy starting, you can make the switch to Charz which there is no wrong with that. However when starting with squirtle, making the switch to Ivy isn't that bad either.
it doesn't really matter who you start with as long as you don't get low percent gimp killed by fsmash or something
squirtle's camping beats ganondorf hardddddd although you probably don't need to run the timer on gdorf anyway...
squirtle's camping beats ganondorf hardddddd although you probably don't need to run the timer on gdorf anyway...
Risky fighting with squirtle though. After 70% if squirtle takes an ftilt (more affectionately known as SPARTA!) he will probably not come back. Dorf isn't as slow as people say. His uair is quick, his massively OP'd dair can be autocancelled, his smashes are quicker than ikes, and his choke can combo with jab/dtilt on ivy and zard. His recovery is where his biggest weakness lies. Squirtle only has short range aerials, while ivy and zard possess a lot more range.
Ivy is a punishing machine.
Bullsh*tseed loves fatties. Spotdodge, and bam. That's a free 40%. Spotdodge, there ya go. Got him to 70%. half your work done for you. If you can read when he's going to wizard foot to the floor, spotdodge usmash. The lag on that is huge. Usmash won't kill him till about 90-100%.
Ivy and zard can rack damage very quickly and efficiently, gimp well and in general do well vs heavyweights. If you feel you're confident enough in your squirtle, go for it. But in general terms, ivy is the best starter, with zard a close second.
Ivy is a punishing machine.
Bullsh*tseed loves fatties. Spotdodge, and bam. That's a free 40%. Spotdodge, there ya go. Got him to 70%. half your work done for you. If you can read when he's going to wizard foot to the floor, spotdodge usmash. The lag on that is huge. Usmash won't kill him till about 90-100%.
Ivy and zard can rack damage very quickly and efficiently, gimp well and in general do well vs heavyweights. If you feel you're confident enough in your squirtle, go for it. But in general terms, ivy is the best starter, with zard a close second.
T-block
B2B TST
Agreeing with vermiis here... Squirtle does fine, but it's a lot riskier than the other two. Just a couple good predictions from the Ganon player and now you're at KO percents.
Don't underestimate the Dorf... he can pour on the damage fast if you're not paying attention. With Ivysaur and Charizard you're allowed to play much safer than with Squirtle.
Don't underestimate the Dorf... he can pour on the damage fast if you're not paying attention. With Ivysaur and Charizard you're allowed to play much safer than with Squirtle.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
His dash also ***** Squirtle. The Football Tackle comes out a lot faster than you'd expect, and it KOs very well, too.
^^ well I see now that Ivy and Charz are the best, because water gun does kinda fire slowly and it isnt as powerful as a spacing tool as razor leaf or flamethrower and plus squirtle can get huge amounts of damage in only a few hits and even get KO'd early possibly. So yeah, I think Ivy and Charz will be fine.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
I guess I have to say it, Ivy is a god at gimping. I mean it, SHE IS A GIMPING GOD. Her Bair ***** most peoples recoveries off stage that is not named Metaknight and Jigglypuff. ALso, she can tether hog quickly afterwards.
Honestly people, I want you to start gimping with Ivysaur. Try and Bair to tehter hog gimp and see.
Honestly, Ganon gets ***** by Bair and Teher edge hog
.
Honestly people, I want you to start gimping with Ivysaur. Try and Bair to tehter hog gimp and see.
Honestly, Ganon gets ***** by Bair and Teher edge hog
.fixed.I guess I have to say it, Ivy is a godess at gimping. I mean it, SHE IS A GIMPING GODESS. Her Bair ***** most peoples recoveries off stage that is not named Metaknight and Jigglypuff. ALso, she can tether hog quickly afterwards.
Honestly people, I want you to start gimping with Ivysaur. Try and Bair to tehter hog gimp and see.
Honestly, Ganon gets ***** by Bair and Teher edge hog
all I would have to say is if you want to instant tether to take the grab quickly watch out for a death choke suicide, only if you hang, however most cases if you time it right, it shouldn't end up like that can Ganon will fail lol.
I think we already established that in like the first post for the ganon discussion.
I'm pretty sure I can make a summary when I get home, I got plans today and they will ebd around lunch so I'll make a summary when I get home and we can move on to the next person.
I'm pretty sure I can make a summary when I get home, I got plans today and they will ebd around lunch so I'll make a summary when I get home and we can move on to the next person.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
I'll update the picture when the summary is posted.
M.K
Level 55
Unlike other Heavyweights, Ganondorf is still rather....thin, if you will. Ivysaur's Bullet Seed is less effective.
Squirtle is the best choice due to his high aerial mobility. Ganondorf relies on the Flame Choke for approach, and Squirtle is the one who best escapes it.
Ivysaur is good overall too. Ganondorf can't really GIMP too well...so that's not a problem. Get the opponent in a Bullet Seed and....yay =D
Squirtle is the best choice due to his high aerial mobility. Ganondorf relies on the Flame Choke for approach, and Squirtle is the one who best escapes it.
Ivysaur is good overall too. Ganondorf can't really GIMP too well...so that's not a problem. Get the opponent in a Bullet Seed and....yay =D
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Squirtle is NOT the best Pokemon for Ganondorf. A good Ganon isn't going to use the Flame Choke for approaches at all, especially against Squirtle. He may do tech chasing with it once he's inside, but he's got better ways to get in than that. Ganon's up air is actually fairly devastating to Squirtle in an air-to-air fight, and as mentioned before, all it takes is a couple slip-ups on Squirtle's part to REALLY make things look bad for him.
Squirtle's not a "bad" choice to start against Ganondorf (they're all at an advantage against him), but the other two are both better.
It's definitely an Ivysaur/Charizard tie.
Squirtle's not a "bad" choice to start against Ganondorf (they're all at an advantage against him), but the other two are both better.
It's definitely an Ivysaur/Charizard tie.
Ice Climbers Discussion
Ok so I finished the summary for Ganny, now we go onto ICEE team.
So far we have Squirtle and Charizard to start.
I have little experience with this match up so I'm just going to have to listen to you guys as best I can and form my own opinion, get my thoughts out there see if they need revising(probably do) and then finalize everything into a summary.
OK what Orion has down is Squirtle and Charizard to start.
I really dont see a problem with Charizard starting, his capabilities against the two are no problem to me, spacing is fine, he can take their punishment.
However I do want to question why squirtle is up there. To me I kinda find ICEE similar to Lolimar, and I found squirtle isn't always the best choice to start against him. I just want an explanation for the reasoning behind this.
Also I want to hear the reasoning why Ivy isn't up there. My only thought is that a GOOD ICEE player you CG him and spike him, and that spike is pretty beast. To me I fear their CG worse than Falco's or D3's combined.
Those are my thoughts for now. Let's start this discussion, there are some things I want to learn and get straightened out. ^^
Ok so I finished the summary for Ganny, now we go onto ICEE team.
So far we have Squirtle and Charizard to start.
I have little experience with this match up so I'm just going to have to listen to you guys as best I can and form my own opinion, get my thoughts out there see if they need revising(probably do) and then finalize everything into a summary.
OK what Orion has down is Squirtle and Charizard to start.
I really dont see a problem with Charizard starting, his capabilities against the two are no problem to me, spacing is fine, he can take their punishment.
However I do want to question why squirtle is up there. To me I kinda find ICEE similar to Lolimar, and I found squirtle isn't always the best choice to start against him. I just want an explanation for the reasoning behind this.
Also I want to hear the reasoning why Ivy isn't up there. My only thought is that a GOOD ICEE player you CG him and spike him, and that spike is pretty beast. To me I fear their CG worse than Falco's or D3's combined.
Those are my thoughts for now. Let's start this discussion, there are some things I want to learn and get straightened out. ^^
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Squirtle was a bit of a tough call, but I've held up best at the beginning of matches with Squirtle due almost entirely to his aerial speed in this fight. Although he still has to put himself in danger of getting grabbed by Ice Climbers, he has been the best chance for me to play fast and loose in order to avoid that situation.
I've never liked Ivysaur in this match-up. He just doesn't have the mobility he needs to keep himself out of grab range, and his spacing game can only go so far against the Ice Climbers.
I'd say Charizard would be the clear-cut favorite to start if it weren't for his size and aerial speed. He's also just begging to be juggled on top of the already deadly throw game. Just the same, Charizard can put a hurt on the ICs AND separate them - the two things that are most needed in this matchup.
I've never liked Ivysaur in this match-up. He just doesn't have the mobility he needs to keep himself out of grab range, and his spacing game can only go so far against the Ice Climbers.
I'd say Charizard would be the clear-cut favorite to start if it weren't for his size and aerial speed. He's also just begging to be juggled on top of the already deadly throw game. Just the same, Charizard can put a hurt on the ICs AND separate them - the two things that are most needed in this matchup.
Yes, that is true. I don't really doubt Squirtle's abilities, I just was a little curious. Yeah, squirtle would be great by separating them quickly and keeping them that way. Ivy I would just try to use to kill them once weakened enough. then send in Charz to stock tank.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I prefer Charizard in this match-up, too. He easily separates the two Climbers, like Orion said, and if you can get just one of them offstage, fair ***** them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he can be chain grabbed the easiest out of the three due to his bulk. Flamethrower's also good at trapping them, and it cancels out their ice block projectiles.
Squirtle relies on mindgames to win here. One mess-up, though, and you'll get KO'd easily. It's also noteworthy that IC's ice-based attacks both damage and break Squirtle out of his Withdraw. Like Orion said, it's fully possible with Squirtle to win here; you just have to be better at predicting what your enemy does. Jabbing is tough here since it can be shielding, thus leading to a chaingrab.
Ivysaur's alright here, I guess. Razor Leaf throws the ice shots back at the ICs (but the blocks don't damage them). Bullet Seeding out of a missed ICs Belay is ****. If you get spiked at low to medium percents or so, it's still possible to recover due to Ivysaur's long Vine Whip. As a whole, though, Ivysaur just doesn't seem to do as well here. I'd attribute part of this to Ivysaur's slow aerial speed: ICs dominate on the ground, making most characters try to attack with aerial approaches, but Ivysaur's slow aerial speed makes it tough to approach the ICs. And of course, they can easily shield your approach and then go for the chaingrab.
Squirtle relies on mindgames to win here. One mess-up, though, and you'll get KO'd easily. It's also noteworthy that IC's ice-based attacks both damage and break Squirtle out of his Withdraw. Like Orion said, it's fully possible with Squirtle to win here; you just have to be better at predicting what your enemy does. Jabbing is tough here since it can be shielding, thus leading to a chaingrab.
Ivysaur's alright here, I guess. Razor Leaf throws the ice shots back at the ICs (but the blocks don't damage them). Bullet Seeding out of a missed ICs Belay is ****. If you get spiked at low to medium percents or so, it's still possible to recover due to Ivysaur's long Vine Whip. As a whole, though, Ivysaur just doesn't seem to do as well here. I'd attribute part of this to Ivysaur's slow aerial speed: ICs dominate on the ground, making most characters try to attack with aerial approaches, but Ivysaur's slow aerial speed makes it tough to approach the ICs. And of course, they can easily shield your approach and then go for the chaingrab.
Kage Me
Smash Ace
You're very right to fear the chaingrabs, but I wouldn't worry about the spike too much. The only ones we spike are characters with slow or extremely short recoveries, and Ivysaur's recovery is neither. If you meteor cancel with Vine Whip, f-air is not as good a finisher as u-smash would be. By the time it kills Ivysaur reliably, u-smash is actually easier to pull off.
Anyway. Squirtle's a decent starter. He's more vulnerable to f-air gimps than the other two, and u-smash kills him way earlier than Ivysaur or Charizard. However, Squirtle is too fast and too airborne to get grabbed anyway. More important is that he ***** Nana pretty well, and early Nana **** means an easier fight. He also edgeguards Popo quite well, but getting a solo Climber off-stage is a challenge - not really worth it when you can switch to Ivysaur.
Now then, Ivysaur. Amazing at not getting grabbed, but he doesn't have that much to offer against the Ice Climbers as a pair. When Popo is alone, Ivysaur is amazing. Srsly, it scares me. Thing is, Ice Climbers never start seperated, so you're much better off starting as Squirtle and switching to Ivysaur once Popo is all by himself.
Finally, there's Charizard. There's the ridiculously easy hobbling that can be done on him, but Charizard's also pretty decent at avoiding the grab if he pressures and spaces well (he's easiest of the three to get a grab on, though, so keep that in mind). More importantly, if the Ice Climbers get seperated (and Charizard is indeed capable of seperating them), he ***** Nana even harder than Squirtle does. Without Nana, Popo is doomed against Charizard.
I'd recommend starting as Squirtle, but Charizard is also a good option. Ivysaur is possible, I just don't see why you'd start as him when the other two are available...
Anyway. Squirtle's a decent starter. He's more vulnerable to f-air gimps than the other two, and u-smash kills him way earlier than Ivysaur or Charizard. However, Squirtle is too fast and too airborne to get grabbed anyway. More important is that he ***** Nana pretty well, and early Nana **** means an easier fight. He also edgeguards Popo quite well, but getting a solo Climber off-stage is a challenge - not really worth it when you can switch to Ivysaur.
Now then, Ivysaur. Amazing at not getting grabbed, but he doesn't have that much to offer against the Ice Climbers as a pair. When Popo is alone, Ivysaur is amazing. Srsly, it scares me. Thing is, Ice Climbers never start seperated, so you're much better off starting as Squirtle and switching to Ivysaur once Popo is all by himself.
Finally, there's Charizard. There's the ridiculously easy hobbling that can be done on him, but Charizard's also pretty decent at avoiding the grab if he pressures and spaces well (he's easiest of the three to get a grab on, though, so keep that in mind). More importantly, if the Ice Climbers get seperated (and Charizard is indeed capable of seperating them), he ***** Nana even harder than Squirtle does. Without Nana, Popo is doomed against Charizard.
I'd recommend starting as Squirtle, but Charizard is also a good option. Ivysaur is possible, I just don't see why you'd start as him when the other two are available...
T-block
B2B TST
Hehe I have zero experience in this matchup. Wewt
Seems like Charizard would be a better choice than Squirtle to start with longer range on his moves. I think f-tilt/d-tilt outranges everything they have on the ground short of their projectile, and I wouldn't be surprised if n-air plows through every aerial they have. It shouldn't be too hard to avoid the grab as Charizard if you keep mid-distance and play carefully. Also, he'd probably do really well if you can get them separated.
Squirtle has to get in closer, so the risk of getting grabbed is probably higher. Hydrograb into a quick d-throw would be a nice way to separate them though.
Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about x)
Seems like Charizard would be a better choice than Squirtle to start with longer range on his moves. I think f-tilt/d-tilt outranges everything they have on the ground short of their projectile, and I wouldn't be surprised if n-air plows through every aerial they have. It shouldn't be too hard to avoid the grab as Charizard if you keep mid-distance and play carefully. Also, he'd probably do really well if you can get them separated.
Squirtle has to get in closer, so the risk of getting grabbed is probably higher. Hydrograb into a quick d-throw would be a nice way to separate them though.
Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about x)
Magik0722
Smash Champion
all 3 pokemon do well but i typically start with squirtle, the only x factor is that most ice climbers know how to chain grab around ivysuars weight so they will have no problem 0-death ivysuar, and you cant exactly just switch to charizard and get CG'd as well
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
I have some experience, and Ivysaur does well in this matchup than you'd think.
Ftilt is a great way to keep the IC's away. Ivysaur also is the one forcing the approach here with his Razor Leaf. Nair seperates them, and Bair is vital.
Ftilt is a great way to keep the IC's away. Ivysaur also is the one forcing the approach here with his Razor Leaf. Nair seperates them, and Bair is vital.
all three have issues with the chaingrab and all three have solid ways of separating the climbers. i think all three work out depending on the stage. ivysaur only works on a very large stage like fd and 2nd castle seige, squirtle needs platforms, charizard idk.
Well that is true however like Kage said, squirtle will not get grabbed that easily. After all with squirtle's mobility, it will be really hard to get a grab on him.
also, when it comes to stages, if you wanted to be specific about it then it's really a personal call. If Ivysaur is the recommended choice against ________ person but you know squirtle is best for the stage, then it's a personal choice to make the switch.
Really I support Kage's words 100%. Wouldn't it be common for an IC to use mini glacier attack like first thing especially against someone like PT? not like Ivy can really out range that. However I will admit if you did chose the right stage then you could put the punishment on IC.
@Typh- this is just a thread to show, which starter that, on paper, would be the best to start with. this thread is partially analyzing fighting habits on both sides, and moves that would be useful/less, what situations are faced, who would be best to face them, what to do in them most commonly, etc to help find a starting pokemon when it comes to a match up.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
By the way, I SERIOUSLY doubt it, but is it at all possible to up-tilt lock both Ice Climbers at the same time for a couple of hits at early percents? Not that this would be even SLIGHTLY practically, but I'm a bit curious.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
I actually shift between Squirtle and Ivysaur starters in this match-up, and I think that switching in this match-up is actually helpful because all three go about attacking the Ice Climbers radically different. I think this is one of the few match-ups where switching Pokémon can actually help confuse your opponent.
I highly recommend only Squirtle or Ivysaur start, and not Charizard. As typical, I lean more toward Ivysaur because I'm simply more comfortable with Ivysaur, but also, I feel that Ivysaur has less of a chance of "messing up" and getting grabbed by the Ice Climbers. It really comes down to whichever your more comfortable with.
The other thing I like about Ivysaur start is that you can switch to Charizard, who is in my opinion the best Pokémon versus a solo Ice Climber. Otherwise, I just try to tank them and use Flamethrower, which is very helpful versus them.
I highly recommend only Squirtle or Ivysaur start, and not Charizard. As typical, I lean more toward Ivysaur because I'm simply more comfortable with Ivysaur, but also, I feel that Ivysaur has less of a chance of "messing up" and getting grabbed by the Ice Climbers. It really comes down to whichever your more comfortable with.
The other thing I like about Ivysaur start is that you can switch to Charizard, who is in my opinion the best Pokémon versus a solo Ice Climber. Otherwise, I just try to tank them and use Flamethrower, which is very helpful versus them.
Squirtle is small enough not to get grabbed, yet he is Easy Shield Grab fodder. Charizard is better off later in the fight when against IC, Ivy i recommend because Ivysaur can space well with Bair and send back IC's Projectile with a razor leaf, forcing IC to come and approach.