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Detecting Johns: A Guide

The White Zeton

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1
I was at a tourney recently that was witness to very few johns. It was so enjoyable that I began to imagine what it would be like if all smash events were free of johns. How can we get others to stop? How can we stop johning ourselves? How can we identify johns?



First, a definition:

Me said:
A john is an attempt to invalidate a competition.
In other words, someone who johns is trying to ignore an aspect of reality.

The thing about reality is that it simply is. Existence is existence, and never non-existence. "A is A", victory is victory, defeat is defeat. Players in a tourney place neither higher nor lower than what they placed. This sounds so obvious, but human nature often interferes with accepting reality as valid. Hence, we john.


Almost every john contains one of three words:


1. "if"

Ah, the great conditional. The easiest way to ignore our reality is to suggest a different one.

"If I had landed that smash, you would have died."
"He wouldn't have won if he didn't play that character."
"I'll win if he doesn't take me to mansion."
"If I played this game more, I'd be a lot better."
"I would have won teams if I had a better partner."


All of these statements are either painfully obvious or pointless speculation. It's all just beating around the bush of reality. I can summarize all of these into a single statement:

"If things had been different, they would have been different."

There you have it: the mother of all conditional johns.

2. "only"

Forced to face reality, he who johns next attempts to dismantle it.

"You only won because I didn't camp the ledge."
"He only wins when he plays his main."
"That's the only stage he wouldn't have won on."
"I only warmed up a little bit today."
"That tourney only had bad players."


It's as if we think that by explaining something, pointing out possible causes and effects, we can elevate ourselves above reality. Observations are ultimately nothing but observations, and all boil down to the same thing:

"You only won because we happen to occupy this universe."

Sadly, all rumors I've heard suggest that the SBR will not be adding universe counter-picking to the next official ruleset.

3. "could"

Potential... The combination of "if" and "only" is "could".

"I could have spammed more."
"She could have gone DDD and he would have won."
"I could have beat him on any other stage."
"With more practice, I could beat a lot more people."
"I could have won that tourney I missed--I didn't have gas money."


It's just more speculation. This one is easy to summarize:

"I could claim something."

Yes. Yes you could.

If only everyone could stop johning...

One of the most pervasive types of johns in Smash is character johns. (This includes matchup johns, a sub-type.) Character johns come in many forms but are all essentially the same: "If only I picked a different character, I could beat you."

It's pretty easy to see that this line is ridiculous and silly. They aren't fooling anybody: If they could actually win by using a different character, they would. Anyone who refuses to play a character they would honestly win with is too self-righteous to be a competitive threat anyway, so it's a moot point. There is nothing wrong with having unique skill will an underused character, but don't diminish that skill with johns. (If you main a low-tier and take offense to any of this, I propose that you are playing that low-tier for the wrong reasons.)

When you make character johns, you are doing a disservice to that character and everyone who plays them. Everyone plays with the same character select screen and chooses their character of their own free will, no point pretending otherwise.


Beyond Johns

Reality is a terrible and glorious thing. It contains all of our greatest successes and most miserable failures. When we look at it directly, sometimes we are shocked at what we see. It can be confusing and even painful. But it is always superior to all other perspectives. After your next match of smash, win or lose, try something: When it's over, just sit. Don't say anything. Don't think anything. Just reflect on the match you just played and consider everything that took place without bias or motive.

If you examine reality for what it is, I can only promise you one thing:

No "if"s.

No "only"s.

No "could"s.

You will get better.



Good luck.
 

Barge

All I want is a custom title
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I absolutely love this thread, especially the first quote.

"If things had been different, they would have been different."

Probably the best first post in the interwebz.
 

Barge

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I also see a lot of helpful-ness in this guide.
It will actually help people get better, by evaluating their mistakes instead of covering them up with excuses. And it will make everything a little less annoying :D
I approve of this thread

Oh, but what about the straight up statement johns?

"my hands were cold"
"I dropped the controller"
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Feb 28, 2008
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amazing thread!
Hopefully others will take the time to read it as well. I think another john that's unexpectedly popular is "i would've won if i didnt sandbag". And normally you wouldnt expect anything like this, as johning and sandbagging are generally opposites to an extent.

but again though, loved the thread.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
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Fayetteville, GA
Oh, but what about the straight up statement johns?

"my hands were cold"
"I dropped the controller"
They can be put into one of the forms The White Zeton posted:
  • "My hands were cold" = "If my hands weren't cold, I would've won"
  • "I dropped the controller" = "You only won because I dropped the controller"

ZING!
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
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There are good first posts. And then there are great first posts. This is an example of the latter.

A very well constructed topic that was a joy to read.
 

Lord Viper

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I call sticky, we don't get great threads like this everyday. =D

 

Adetque

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 21, 2009
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149
The only time I john is if the stage kills me, like appearing under frigate. Then again:
"If only the stage hadn't killed me, then I would have won."
 

Nixernator

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Dec 30, 2008
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I johned on a tourney on Sunday, but only after the guy who just beat me went "Wait how did that even kill you?" on the last kill, I got hit straight up from lucarios Dair while trading hits.
"If only Brawl made sense, I would've won" :p
 

Kitamerby

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"I would've won if you really released that Quick Draw when I started Zamus's Dair, spiking you for the best kill ever. "

No Johns.
 

Kookie

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 10, 2008
Messages
130
You sir, I respect. Thanks for posting this brilliant topic.

Now I can show a friend of mine who does these very same things on a regular basis this topic, and perhaps he'll see things the right way and stop with the nonsense. =)
 

BBoyindo

Smash Ace
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This thread is so good, i hope the smash community will recognize this and improve themselves.
"If things had been different, they would have been different."
No Johns.
 

Veng

Smash Ace
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Mar 13, 2008
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The biggest john I hear is....

oh gosh everytime i screw up
this matchup is horrible
i hate this part of the stage/i hate this stage

the biggest ones...

Metaknight or you main metagay.. your playstyle is like homo its like every other mk

actually.. anything including mk usually comes out as a john
 

Royale

Smash Journeyman
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I johned on a tourney on Sunday, but only after the guy who just beat me went "Wait how did that even kill you?" on the last kill, I got hit straight up from lucarios Dair while trading hits.
"If only Brawl made sense, I would've won" :p
Hahahaah, i've done counter johns before with someone else i friendlied. We got a good chuckle out of it.

I Dont ever john..because i believe its such a negative way to look at a match. I hate people that john after our matches, if they do i call them out on it. "No johns please".


As for me, after a match its all a mental process;

"I need to really watch out for x,y,z"

"I need to defeat that mind game"

"What do i need to work on?"

i usually emulate these thoughts by scratching my chin in thought, staring deeply at the TV, or scratching my head.


And when i die stupidly, and its my fault, i always say "oops, ahahahah" after the fact lol.
 

Veng

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oh another good one

you only use metaknights up b, fair, downsmash, tornado, drill rush, dair, nair, and up air... spammer your moves are so stale


that one makes me lol everytime.
 

c3gill

Smash Ace
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VA
Lucas has no priority.
And Marth/DK/G&W are gay.

neither has if, only, or could. both are true. so they must not be johns right?!?!?!1:laugh:
 

Barge

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Lucas has no priority.
And Marth/DK/G&W are gay.

neither has if, only, or could. both are true. so they must not be johns right?!?!?!1:laugh:
Only if you use it as an excuse for johning, then it's your fault for using them.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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I really do challenge everyone to change the way they finish matches. It is hard when you first adjust, but it becomes easier. If you lose a match, you are allowed to do only one thing: look your opponent in the eye and say, "Hey, good game, man!" You are not allowed to comment on anything else (except in good fun). Do not mention what could have happened. Do not sulk about how you were cheated or how the stage abused you. What's done is done.

When I first started forming this habit, it was way difficult for me. My mind would race through all the excuses I could share, but I would just try to remember how equally frustrating it is for other people to lose to me.

Oh, and now whenever my other friends give me johns, I just say back to them, "Yeah, you would've won if you hadn't had lost." :p
 

c3gill

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I really do challenge everyone to change the way they finish matches. It is hard when you first adjust, but it becomes easier. If you lose a match, you are allowed to do only one thing: look your opponent in the eye and say, "Hey, good game, man!" You are not allowed to comment on anything else (except in good fun). Do not mention what could have happened. Do not sulk about how you were cheated or how the stage abused you. What's done is done.

When I first started forming this habit, it was way difficult for me. My mind would race through all the excuses I could share, but I would just try to remember how equally frustrating it is for other people to lose to me.

Oh, and now whenever my other friends give me johns, I just say back to them, "Yeah, you would've won if you hadn't had lost." :p
What about the times where johns are warranted? "I dropped the controller just as you started charging your F-Smash" I have dropped controllers before in tournaments. And sweaty fingers from nervousness doesnt make this any less common. what about the Johns that aren't excuses, but just taken as excuses? A john doesnt have to be sulking, it can just be something screwed up happened and I lost because of it. **** happens, no?
 

TheBuzzSaw

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But that is exactly my point. Stuff happens. Stuff happens to everyone. We don't need to hear about it. And dropping your controller is not a valid john in the least! It is still completely within your realm of control. The only valid johns (in my opinion) are genuine outside interference such as your controller being unplugged.
 

MBreeto

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But that is exactly my point. Stuff happens. Stuff happens to everyone. We don't need to hear about it. And dropping your controller is not a valid john in the least! It is still completely within your realm of control. The only valid johns (in my opinion) are genuine outside interference such as your controller being unplugged.
I think that anything that involves another person could be used for an excuse. Like you said, unplugging of the controller (someone trips over the wire), or someone accidentally unplugs the wii or whatever. Speaking of which, do people use wavebirds at tournaments? I would be afraid that someone would take theirs and just switch it to my channel during the match and **** me up. I don't know if it works that way though
 

TheBuzzSaw

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Personally, I have never seen a Wavebird at a tournament (even during my Melee days). I think people avoid them for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
 
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