Dr. Mario

[Deleted member]

The Japanese Melee players probably prefer Doc over regular Mario as well. Yet they don't want him back. Only some CERTAIN people from the United Slavedravers want him back in it seems.

I never brought country into this, nationalist prick.
And you say as though Japanese players don't want him back, yet Chrono keeps finding that plenty of them DO want him back.
I mean, before the system change on the forum, I got this message from him (there was more to this message involving Black Shadow, but I left that out for the sake of what matters to this discussion):

I recently found a Japanese Smash 4 character poll.
In this poll, Dr. Mario had the most votes of any Mario character.

So yeah, get your anti-American anus off your high horse (pun slightly intended).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can't take a joke? Then stop starving and enslaving all the children in the world ok? And you'd imply I'd even share herbs with my horse if I had one? HAAAAAAA........

Of coarse there's an occasional odd ball who wants Dr.Mario back. Still, there are many more occasional odd balls screaming their lungs out for Cloud, Master Chief, Naruto and Goku. Should those people be listened to?

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Diddy made this point. I wonder if in Melee if the stats of Mario and Dr. Mario were switched, how many of the people advocating for Dr. Mario would want him back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

None.

People want Dr.Mario cause of his Melee playstyle, which was superiour to Mario's. And want him back cause of these slight changes that made him better. I have yet to come across something more dull witted than this.

 

[Deleted member]

There's a double standard here, too.
If they were Impa supporters, you'd be all for listening to every word they said, even if they were screaming their lungs out for Reptar from Rugrats. Despite you know, only there being an occasional oddball (including yourself) who wants her. And there are many more Doc supporters than Impa supporters .

Aside from that, those four examples are fricking poor ones. Those are inelligible characters with the exception of Cloud, who is a guest character. Mega Man completely trumps him in that regard, making your point null.

And enough of the Anti-American nationalism, or I will raise issue about it with an Admin. It's just as bad as racism.

EDIT: And considering that even if Dr. Mario had Mario's stats and vice versa, it still doesn't change the fact that he was planned for Brawl and that Roy had worse stats than Marth, yet is still be advocated for because of equally shallow reasoning. It's a safe bet he still would have support. The only notable difference would be that I would not be one of the supporters, as he wouldn't have been my main.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, people only want Dr. Mario as a separate character because of his characteristics. If the gameplay is such a huge deal, just give Mario Doc's characteristics like Project M. Nobody gives a **** about Dr. Mario otherwise.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

...

This is getting out of hand.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, people only want Dr. Mario as a separate character because of his characteristics. If the gameplay is such a huge deal, just give Mario Doc's characteristics like Project M. Nobody gives a **** about Dr. Mario otherwise.

Yes, screw over the ones that prefer Mario's characteristics that he has over Doc just so "Doc fans will shut up". Then what, get a bunch of people ******** about the changes that DIDN'T LIKE Doc's playstyle?
Clearly, that's a smarter idea than giving Dr. Mario his own identity as a doctor-based fighter with his advantages over Mario while touching up Mario to where he can still be good while being a Jack Of All Stats LIKE HE WAS MEANT TO BE. While having his advantages over Doc.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yes, screw over the ones that prefer Mario's characteristics that he has over Doc just so "Doc fans will shut up". Then what, get a bunch of people *****ing about the changes that DIDN'T LIKE Doc's playstyle?

So what your saying is that Mario should be complete ****, and to add insult to injury make a better version of him as a separate character?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kinda.

I don't want Dr.Mario, and as seen with the reaction of Sakurai announcing cuts for Brawl in the pre-Brawl days, nobody really wanted Dr.Mario in the first place. I've seen far more Impa support lately than ever, which is more than Dr.Mario ever had, which is basically non-existant. Heck, even the fan who 'asked for Dr.Mario' merely asked for the Doc to be a costume for Mario. How much more of a filler clone do you want before you realise this?

I think I'm gonna take a small break from this thread till things cool down though.

Habanero does a good job for my replacement though, do not worry, the logic won't be gone.

 

[Bowserlick]

Alright, I am just going to say that I predict that he will not be on the Wii U game (not including DLC).

The main reasons why are:
1. Because he was scrapped in Brawl.
2. And to my knowledge, doesn't have a new game or other relevant media coming out

 

[Deleted member]

So what your saying is that Mario should be complete ****, and to add insult to injury make a better version of him as a separate character?

Did you NOT read what I said after that? If you had, you wouldn't have asked me such a retarted question that shows little reading comprehension.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ooh... this is gonna be good...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Did you NOT read what I said after that? If you had, you wouldn't have asked me such a retarted question that shows little reading comprehension.

Yes, I am apparently "retarted" for keeping level headed over Dr. Mario not being changed much. If your expecting a complete overhaul to a character who is Mario in a doctor suit, then you're just begging to be disappointed.

 

[Croph]

So much drama over my second go-to man. I've already said my stance on Dr. Mario. I'd be happy for his return (costume or character). Can I live without him? Sure, I did that in Brawl (Roy's a different story, as much as I don't want it to be). Not everyone wants Dr. Mario back. I have my specific reasons for wanting the Doc, same with the folks who don't want him. For some things, we just have to agree to disagree...

i just don't like it when there's too much tension here...I'm out

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, the best I can say in this matter is that I wouldn't want Dr.Mario above basically any other potential Mario newcomer. Yet, with Pokemon and Fire Emblem it's very much accepted as an idea that we keep Lucario / Ike, add back Mewtwo / Roy and have a newcomer from the newest games, ??? / Chrom. If Dr.Mario would have at least had the potential to be as unique as Falco, Ganondorf, Lucas, Wolf and Toon Link where in Brawl, I might change my mind about this. Yet, I don't really think Dr.Mario is capable of this, nor worthy to bring back with farfetched moves as doctor equipment or as a character not as unique as the 'Brawl clones', which imo would be very bad. As Dr.Mario would then again be the least unique character on the roster. So unless a good moveset can be made out of his appearance in the Dr.Mario games, I don't want him in. And especially not before Toad. And also not before Paper Mario or Bowser Jr. As those characters DO have potential to be as unique as even the 'Brawl clones' if not being completely unique.

 

[Deleted member]

@Habanero
You really have no comprehension at all, do you?
-I never said you were ******** (though right now, you leave me wondering...). I said you asked a ******** question.
-The question was ******** because it was COMPLETELY ignoring the following sentence I have written and putting words in my mouth I have never said.
-I never said I was expecting a complete overhaul, just enough to give Dr. Mario his own identity as a doctor and removing the crap that doesn't make sense, like the Super Sheet (what IS a "Super Sheet" anyway?). As well as being slower and less athletic like what he was intended to be.
-You act as though Mario has always been "****" for his Jack of All Stats status, yet that is only true in Brawl, where Mario is way below average. Mario is pretty much average in the previous two games, going along very well that he is MEANT to be average (a.k.a. The Mario, the trope that's named after him).
-Acting as though there will be no change is far from level-headed, given that we have Luigi, who gets a bit different every Smash he's in, and he's essentially a Green Mario in terms of capabilities. The only difference is that he's Mario's twin brother instead of medical alter-ego from a seperate canon. Why is Luigi allowed to be made different, then? Because he has a different name? That's superficial and biased.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No it's not. Luigi is so much more of a character than Dr.Mario is.

Hence they made Luigi the unique character from Mario in Melee. They could've kept him a clone, as in Smash 64, but they made him more unique. And added Dr.Mario as a full clone.

Luigi also has his own actual abilities to rely on, which Dr.Mario lacks. Are you really trying to argue this?

 

[Bowserlick]

Dr. Mario can be given a completely unique moveset if Sakurai wanted to do just that. However, I think the possibility of Sakurai doing that is very, very low.

 

[Deleted member]

No it's not. Luigi is so much more of a character than Dr.Mario is.

Hence they made Luigi the unique character from Mario in Melee. They could've kept him a clone, as in Smash 64, but they made him more unique. And added Dr.Mario as a full clone.

Luigi also has his own actual abilities to rely on, which Dr.Mario lacks. Are you really trying to argue this?

Luigi didn't get that much character until Luigi's Mansion, well after his appearance in Smash 64, and it did nothing for him in Melee.
Until LM, he was just the "other Mario Bro."
And "character" means nothing in terms of clones, unless you're honestly going to tell me that Ganondorf had the same exact character as Captain Falcon and that's why he was his clone. Luigi wasn't the "clone" because he was already in the game with his own differences out of the blue by the time the clones were added. Simple as that.
And no, there is literally nothing Luigi can do that Mario can't outside the Poltergust, and as you can see, he does not use it in Smash as of yet. Your point is invalid.

 

[SmashChu]

God, these arguments are stupid.

1)The more the marrier. Doc isn't going to take away from <insert dream character here>
2)Doc was already in Melee. Did any of you think that maybe the reason people want him back is because they used him in the other game. Gosh. Maybe they even liked him. I'm sick and tired of you all telling other people why they liked their character.

Now you all best be skedaddling. I don't wanna here no more ruckus.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

What if they did what was done with wario. Added an extra costume but this time adding Dr. Mario onto Mario. Would people like that?

 

[FlareHabanero]

2)Doc was already in Melee. Did any of you think that maybe the reason people want him back is because they used him in the other game. Gosh. Maybe they even liked him. I'm sick and tired of you all telling other people why they liked their character.

Wait, people liked Dr. Mario for being Dr. Mario instead of being an insultingly better Mario? From what I hear people don't really like Dr. Mario and found him to be a waste of breath, hence there are so many people that would rather have him as an alternate costume at best.

 

[SmashChu]

Wait, people liked Dr. Mario for being Dr. Mario instead of being an insultingly better Mario? From what I hear people don't really like Dr. Mario and found him to be a waste of breath, hence there are so many people that would rather have him as an alternate costume at best.

I KNOW. Is it so hard to believe people want him back because they like the character.

The people that don't like him are all the same people who have this idea of a perfect roster. It happened during Brawl and it's happening now. Again, Doc has been in the game and people have asked for him back (yes, I have seen it myself).

Now stop with this stupid argument.

 

[Deleted member]

"Insultingly better"?
So just because plain ol' Average Joe Mario is *gasp* AVERAGE as he's always meant to be, it means that having an alternate take on him that manages to make him better in the competitive sense (i.e. not what Sakurai intended) is an insult?
Dafuq am I reading? Mario is always meant to be that one character who is Jack of All Stats.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JackOfAllStats?from=Main.TheMario

Which is why giving the good things about Dr. Mario to him but leaving out the bad things about Dr. Mario (i.e. abysmal recovery) no longer makes Mario balanced, and Mario is SUPPOSED to be the middleground (Brawl relatively failed to do that, but then again, characters were not balanced by how they fare one-on-one, and it shows. Big time.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

You seem to fail to realize that Jack of All Stats does not automatically mean mediocrity. Balanced characters are designed to have their attributes and moves be user friendly and easily accessible with little learning curve, not to be borderline mediocre characters. Dr. Mario is a balanced character whether you like it or not with minute differences between him and Mario, and there is no excuse to take away things that would make Mario a better character.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think we should get people to admit their opinions in this forum so we can check later. Who thinks Dr. Mario will be a Smash 4 character on the Wii U (not downloadable)?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I KNOW. Is it so hard to believe people want him back because they like the character.

The people that don't like him are all the same people who have this idea of a perfect roster. It happened during Brawl and it's happening now. Again, Doc has been in the game and people have asked for him back (yes, I have seen it myself).

Now stop with this stupid argument.

I think your confused what the argument is. Its should he be in SSB4 not is it possible that people like him. Like I said before, they could have put ANYONE in melee and there would be some smash fans demanding their return. The question is should they return? Do they have a strong enough reason to warrant the development time put into a character. There are people hoping for just about any nintendo character you can think of to get into the next smash. A few fans of a character does not automatically result in their inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

@Habanero
You seem to fail to realize that Mario is only mediocre in Brawl. He's AVERAGE in the other titles.
No real strengths, but no real weaknesses, either. That's what Mario is. (Except again, Brawl, but as said repeatedly, balance was horribly done).
Dr. Mario is not balanced contrary to the brainless Troper that added him to the page (he sounds an awful lot like you). Dr. Mario HAS strengths that Mario lacks, but also has weaknesses Mario lacks. While it is easier for Doc to get more KO's, it is also easier for him to BE KOed, due to a much worse recovery.

What you don't seem to get through your thick skull is that giving Mario Doc's advantages (which in itself is hard to pinpoint which moves are "better") while keeping Mario's averageness in the weakness deparment no longer makes him a Jack of All Stats, which while I bet you'd orgasm over that for God knows why, completely changes what Mario is all about.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Girls! Girls! Calm down. You're both very pretty.

(This is getting ridiculous guys. Calm down. You're making yourselves look bad.)

 

[Croph]

Girls! Girls! Calm down. You're both very pretty.

(This is getting ridiculous guys. Calm down. You're making yourselves look bad.)

It must be their time of month again. Would ya'll care for some of my teva-naproxen tablets?

But seriously, this argument has been going on for a couple of pages now...I mean, it's nice to talk about the Doc, but too much negativity is a bad thing, right? Debates are fun, but this seems to be getting a little crazy. Some people like Dr. Mario for the way he is, myself included. I like to play as him for his overall playstyle and appearance, not because he is a better Mario, if that makes any sense. I'm a casual, what do I know?...why should I even care? I play as my favourite characters, I couldn't care less if they are superior or inferior to others.

 

[FalKoopa]

This discussion is getting out of hand.
I'll make a list:

Pro-Doc:
GoldenYuiitusin
CrophMaruMariolu2W0vol41PEeeeeek
FalKoopa
Volbound1700

Anti-Doc:
Diddy Kong
Habanero
BluePikmin11
Airrider

Neutrals:
All the rest.

 

[Diddy Kong]

We are still winning in numbers.

 

[volbound1700]

As I said before, Dr. Mario should have his own background and be the third Mario brother (the one that got a great education since the previous two are plumbers, he can be the nerdy brother). That would be awesome if they put him in Smash and introduced this new backstory. It could revolutionize the entire Mario series. (However, I think Dr. Mario should stay put in Brooklyn and not go to the mushroom kingdom).

 

[volbound1700]

This discussion is getting out of hand.
I'll make a list:

Pro-Doc:
GoldenYuiitusin

Anti-Doc:
Diddy Kong
Habanero

Neutrals:
All the rest.

It wouldn't break my heart if he wasn't in it but add me to the Pro-Doc crowd.

 

[Croph]

Ah **** it. Add me to the Pro-Doc list too. There, we're slowly growing in numbers.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Add me to Anti plz.

 

[FalKoopa]

There, I added the names.

 

[Frostwraith]

I'll remain neutral on this matter.

I had Melee with Doc and I had Brawl without Doc. I enjoyed both games, Doc or no Doc. So there.

Wish I could say the same to Mewtwo and Roy... Brawl's roster was great compared to Melee's but I did miss Mewtwo and Roy... ;_;

 

[Airrider]

Add me in anti-doc. Why even have two characters that are almost exactly the same? Dr. Mario should be a costume and nothing more. Except for the fact that some people really like the characters there is no reason to keep characters such as Doc or Pichu. Might as well push the game forward instead of sticking with some stupid "tradition".

I'm basically against all filler characters (Yink) included. I just want the characters to be as different as possible.