• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Each Ganon's personal MU-ratio 2010 - (Finished)

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
:ganondorf: Vs :dk2:

Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.
 

smashkng

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,742
Location
Malmö, Sweden
NNID
Smashsk
3DS FC
0318-7423-9293
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.

Makke: 30 - 70
Comment: DK ***** us offstage and have long grab range, bair is a pain. If u get him offstage let him feel ur STOMP.
We are outranged and imo, use many choke combos and keep ur best moves fresh and ko DK earlier
 

Exalted

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
1,487
Location
Luleå, Sweden
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.

Makke: 30 - 70
Comment: DK ***** us offstage and have long grab range, bair is a pain. If u get him offstage let him feel ur STOMP.
We are outranged and imo, use many choke combos and keep ur best moves fresh and ko DK earlier.

Exalted: 40-60
Comment: This matchup mostly boils down to the individual player's skill. Sure, DK has some dangerous moves such as his Bair, but it's pretty predictable. Also beware of the occasional Side-B -> DK Punch. He has a very predictable recovery, but you should never try and beat him out of it due to it's great priority. If you notice that he's gonna land onstage with it, punish him hard. Use Gerudo follow-ups often and try to get him low offstage. An important note is that you shouldn't be afraid of mixing up your recoveries with Airdodges etc.
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.

Makke: 30 - 70
Comment: DK ***** us offstage and have long grab range, bair is a pain. If u get him offstage let him feel ur STOMP.
We are outranged and imo, use many choke combos and keep ur best moves fresh and ko DK earlier.

Exalted: 40-60
Comment: This matchup mostly boils down to the individual player's skill. Sure, DK has some dangerous moves such as his Bair, but it's pretty predictable. Also beware of the occasional Side-B -> DK Punch. He has a very predictable recovery, but you should never try and beat him out of it due to it's great priority. If you notice that he's gonna land onstage with it, punish him hard. Use Gerudo follow-ups often and try to get him low offstage. An important note is that you shouldn't be afraid of mixing up your recoveries with Airdodges etc.

Terodactyl Yelnats 45:55
Ganondorf is AMAZING at punishing Donkey Kong, only Upb Cancels, Dtilt, and Bair should be giving you trouble. The good thing about his bair is that his foot stays out for quite a while, you can jump space it to have his bair just miss you then hit his foot with fair/uair/nair. Donkey's down cargo throw is a pain at the edge, but anywhere else and you can escape before you get there. If DK is bair chaining you offstage, hold up and Spam A. But mix it up, SDI out of the chain or airdodge, just don't do the same thing over and over offstage.

If he's offstage, you can do anything to him. I personally enjoy the humiliation of tipmaning his upB more that the spike. We also **** donkey kong when he's above us, he can't handle it. His airdodge is among the slowest in the game and his dair is easily avoided.

Don't run against DK, just walk. Powershield his ftilts to your dtilt. Finally, watch out for his Jab's wonky hitbox, it's amazing at high damage for comboing into dsmash.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.

Makke: 30 - 70
Comment: DK ***** us offstage and have long grab range, bair is a pain. If u get him offstage let him feel ur STOMP.
We are outranged and imo, use many choke combos and keep ur best moves fresh and ko DK earlier.

Exalted: 40-60
Comment: This matchup mostly boils down to the individual player's skill. Sure, DK has some dangerous moves such as his Bair, but it's pretty predictable. Also beware of the occasional Side-B -> DK Punch. He has a very predictable recovery, but you should never try and beat him out of it due to it's great priority. If you notice that he's gonna land onstage with it, punish him hard. Use Gerudo follow-ups often and try to get him low offstage. An important note is that you shouldn't be afraid of mixing up your recoveries with Airdodges etc.

Terodactyl Yelnats 45:55
Ganondorf is AMAZING at punishing Donkey Kong, only Upb Cancels, Dtilt, and Bair should be giving you trouble. The good thing about his bair is that his foot stays out for quite a while, you can jump space it to have his bair just miss you then hit his foot with fair/uair/nair. Donkey's down cargo throw is a pain at the edge, but anywhere else and you can escape before you get there. If DK is bair chaining you offstage, hold up and Spam A. But mix it up, SDI out of the chain or airdodge, just don't do the same thing over and over offstage.

If he's offstage, you can do anything to him. I personally enjoy the humiliation of tipmaning his upB more that the spike. We also **** donkey kong when he's above us, he can't handle it. His airdodge is among the slowest in the game and his dair is easily avoided.

Don't run against DK, just walk. Powershield his ftilts to your dtilt. Finally, watch out for his Jab's wonky hitbox, it's amazing at high damage for comboing into dsmash.

DLA: 45-55
Maybe not Ganon's best matchup, but it's definitely my favorite. It's probably because I've fought Ook more than any other smasher lol. Anyways, the main thing to remember in this matchup is to NOT GET *****. Moves that will **** you include DK punch, headbutt, Fsmash, and getting grabbed near the edge at high %'s. If you think that there's a chance he'll use any of these moves, then prepare yourself accordingly.

Shielding DK punch is usually the best option, but be careful since you CAN'T punish it OOS. Most characters can't. DK's have picked up on this, and they'll often Dsmash right after the shielded DK punch because everyone tries to punish it OOS and fails. For headbutt, you can usually punish it OoS. If your shield is running low, try to Nair out of shield or something--just get in the air. Because even if the aerial doesn't come out fast enough to hit, you'll get hit by a very weak headbutt and you'll usually be able to punish anyway.

If you get grabbed near the edge at mid/high %'s, he's probably going to cargo you. Remember that if you get cargoed, the mechanics for getting out of it are different; all you need to do is hold up. Mashing will get you out slower because you're not holding up the entire time. This is very important because a good DK will rarely try to stage spike you; instead, he'll walk off the stage and throw you out as far as he can. If you don't break out, there's nothing you can do about this since you won't be able to recover. All you can hope for is that the DK sticks around close enough for you to ganoncide him. Keep an eye out for the stage spike too, especially if you're at like 70-100%. Just make sure you tech it, and then try to spike him. I don't think it's guaranteed, but it's probably a 50/50.

Other things... poorly spaced Bairs can be punished OoS with Nair or something. Nair's very useful in this matchup. If he Up B's you on the ground, try to shield it... once he's about to move past you with the up B, roll backwards then put your shield up again. If you do it right, you'll shield the last 1-2 hits and be in perfect shieldgrab/punish position. Watch out for Dtilt to Down B. If you shield his down B, you can't punish it OoS so just roll backwards. If you were out of his range when he started, punish with aerudo. Wizkick doesn't go over his down B. To edgeguard, tipman works great if you're good at it, since one well placed tipman will usually gimp him. DK's also one of the easiest characters to spike... if he has to recover a long way, go for the spike because he won't be able to mix up his horizontal distance nearly as well. If DK is on the ledge and he's >100%, he should never get back up. He's absolutely horrible in that situation. Be ready to punish the jump, because all of his other options are EXTREMELY scripted and punishable.

Overall, it's pretty easy to punish stuff in this matchup, powershielding really helps. Edgeguard whenever possible, and do cool stuff out of gerudo. Just DON'T jump into the ****.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Z1GMA: 35 - 65
Comment: Not much to say about this match-up.
DK does everything slighty better than us.
KO's earlier, lives longer, moves and attacks faster, and has a longer range.

DK has one of the worst recoveries in the game when it comes to avoiding our spike.

Neither character has a major advantage.
The player with better timing, choice of attacks, and reads, will win this match.

SMASHKNG: 35/65-30/70
I hate this MU. DK gimps us SO easily with Bairs and the cargo Dthrow is REALLY gay against us, it puts us in a horrible position offstage. He is also really strong and overall outranges us. We can gimp DK, but good DK's are actually very hard to gimp. I don't know if our Uair does outrange his Bair though. It's pretty easy to punish his landings though, when he lands with his front, especially with Wizard Kick. He's also pretty easy to land side b's on, though he isn't insanely easy to tech-chase like let's say Kirby, predicting his rolls is key for kills and racking damage. Actually Frigate works as a CP stage for me, I'd rather get gimped easier and also gimp him easier when he's so heavy.

Makke: 30 - 70
Comment: DK ***** us offstage and have long grab range, bair is a pain. If u get him offstage let him feel ur STOMP.
We are outranged and imo, use many choke combos and keep ur best moves fresh and ko DK earlier.

Exalted: 40-60
Comment: This matchup mostly boils down to the individual player's skill. Sure, DK has some dangerous moves such as his Bair, but it's pretty predictable. Also beware of the occasional Side-B -> DK Punch. He has a very predictable recovery, but you should never try and beat him out of it due to it's great priority. If you notice that he's gonna land onstage with it, punish him hard. Use Gerudo follow-ups often and try to get him low offstage. An important note is that you shouldn't be afraid of mixing up your recoveries with Airdodges etc.

Terodactyl Yelnats 45:55
Ganondorf is AMAZING at punishing Donkey Kong, only Upb Cancels, Dtilt, and Bair should be giving you trouble. The good thing about his bair is that his foot stays out for quite a while, you can jump space it to have his bair just miss you then hit his foot with fair/uair/nair. Donkey's down cargo throw is a pain at the edge, but anywhere else and you can escape before you get there. If DK is bair chaining you offstage, hold up and Spam A. But mix it up, SDI out of the chain or airdodge, just don't do the same thing over and over offstage.

If he's offstage, you can do anything to him. I personally enjoy the humiliation of tipmaning his upB more that the spike. We also **** donkey kong when he's above us, he can't handle it. His airdodge is among the slowest in the game and his dair is easily avoided.

Don't run against DK, just walk. Powershield his ftilts to your dtilt. Finally, watch out for his Jab's wonky hitbox, it's amazing at high damage for comboing into dsmash.

DLA: 45-55
Maybe not Ganon's best matchup, but it's definitely my favorite. It's probably because I've fought Ook more than any other smasher lol. Anyways, the main thing to remember in this matchup is to NOT GET *****. Moves that will **** you include DK punch, headbutt, Fsmash, and getting grabbed near the edge at high %'s. If you think that there's a chance he'll use any of these moves, then prepare yourself accordingly.

Shielding DK punch is usually the best option, but be careful since you CAN'T punish it OOS. Most characters can't. DK's have picked up on this, and they'll often Dsmash right after the shielded DK punch because everyone tries to punish it OOS and fails. For headbutt, you can usually punish it OoS. If your shield is running low, try to Nair out of shield or something--just get in the air. Because even if the aerial doesn't come out fast enough to hit, you'll get hit by a very weak headbutt and you'll usually be able to punish anyway.

If you get grabbed near the edge at mid/high %'s, he's probably going to cargo you. Remember that if you get cargoed, the mechanics for getting out of it are different; all you need to do is hold up. Mashing will get you out slower because you're not holding up the entire time. This is very important because a good DK will rarely try to stage spike you; instead, he'll walk off the stage and throw you out as far as he can. If you don't break out, there's nothing you can do about this since you won't be able to recover. All you can hope for is that the DK sticks around close enough for you to ganoncide him. Keep an eye out for the stage spike too, especially if you're at like 70-100%. Just make sure you tech it, and then try to spike him. I don't think it's guaranteed, but it's probably a 50/50.

Other things... poorly spaced Bairs can be punished OoS with Nair or something. Nair's very useful in this matchup. If he Up B's you on the ground, try to shield it... once he's about to move past you with the up B, roll backwards then put your shield up again. If you do it right, you'll shield the last 1-2 hits and be in perfect shieldgrab/punish position. Watch out for Dtilt to Down B. If you shield his down B, you can't punish it OoS so just roll backwards. If you were out of his range when he started, punish with aerudo. Wizkick doesn't go over his down B. To edgeguard, tipman works great if you're good at it, since one well placed tipman will usually gimp him. DK's also one of the easiest characters to spike... if he has to recover a long way, go for the spike because he won't be able to mix up his horizontal distance nearly as well. If DK is on the ledge and he's >100%, he should never get back up. He's absolutely horrible in that situation. Be ready to punish the jump, because all of his other options are EXTREMELY scripted and punishable.

Overall, it's pretty easy to punish stuff in this matchup, powershielding really helps. Edgeguard whenever possible, and do cool stuff out of gerudo. Just DON'T jump into the ****.

A2ZOMG: 40/60
It's an okay matchup, but you can't get lazy, since getting lazy will very likely get you destroyed quickly since getting punished by huge Smashes isn't funny, and his gimp options against you can be pretty annoying.

Although he's better in neutral position and survives longer, Ganon does control Donkey Kong quite well once he establishes a rhythm. Flame Choke is fairly easy to land in this matchup, and juggling and edgeguarding Donkey Kong isn't that hard either. At low percents if DK is on the edge, most of them will usually try to be cheeky with the ledge attack. Be ready to shield and punish behind you, and generally stay cool when DK is on the ledge, since it is entirely possible to cover all his ledge getup options and punish. Try to avoid jumping unnecessarily since you're an easy target for his B-air. As for kills, don't try to force them. Although he will probably survive longer, your kills will eventually come if you can maintain control of the match.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Also, about his Cargo Throw off stage:
After we hold up and break free - FOOTSTOOL HIM!
He'll die, and it's very fun.

Even if he has his DJ left, it doesn't help him much :lick:
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Guys, please try and just sum it up when giving your ratio + Comment(s).
Comments that back up your ratio.
Save your MU-advice and such for the *real* MU-threads.


Moving on:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard to CG for the ICs is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Guys, please try and just sum it up when giving your ratio + Comment(s).
Comments that back up your ratio.
Save your MU-advice and such for the *real* MU-threads.
Also, about his Cargo Throw off stage:
After we hold up and break free - FOOTSTOOL HIM!
He'll die, and it's very fun.

Even if he has his DJ left, it doesn't help him much :lick:
uuuh
The message you have answered is too short please add more useless letters
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
[Most recent post]
That wasn't included in my real post.

And instead of spamming the thread apart, edit and remove your Red Text Quote.
Then, comment on the G Vs IC MU -- If you've got experience.

Ppl have been spamming our boards pretty much recently.
Enough is enough.

No hard feelings, Doomfire.
 

Exalted

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
1,487
Location
Luleå, Sweden
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard to CG for the ICs is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Edit: You missed that little blue arrow besides the ICs in the OP >:U
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Honestly SoPO can't be THAT bad.
He can still CG us for a good percent if we are early, Blizzard still does a k job at keeping us away and we don't **** him that much except for gimping.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Also I don't include any of those MU's sicne I don't know a **** about them and I suck there is no reason to add any useless stuff on my side, you guys are doing a good enough job.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard to CG for the ICs is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:
 

Bahamut777

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
684
Location
Brazil
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard to CG for the ICs is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Bahamut: 0-100
Comment: *sigh*
vs SoPo: 60-40
Comment: Even without half of our nightmares, it's still a pain with the chain grabs and blizzard spacing... However, if SoPo gets on the air or offstage, he's dead...
 

Terodactyl Yelnats

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
844
Location
B.C Canada
NNID
Perseids_Tero
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard to CG for the ICs is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Bahamut: 0-100
Comment: *sigh*
vs SoPo: 60-40
Comment: Even without half of our nightmares, it's still a pain with the chain grabs and blizzard spacing... However, if SoPo gets on the air or offstage, he's dead...

Terodactyl Yelnats: 10-90
Comment: Not as bad as Falco. Pivot grab them to fthrow.
Vs Sopo 65:35 Sopo can dthrow chaingrab you across the stage to a dtilt then proceed to edgeguard you. We **** him with sideB.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Tbh the secret strategy why I always laugh at IC's
After they ***** you in singles, ask them to do some doubles. (y)
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard for the ICs to CG is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Bahamut: 0-100
Comment: *sigh*
vs SoPo: 60-40
Comment: Even without half of our nightmares, it's still a pain with the chain grabs and blizzard spacing... However, if SoPo gets on the air or offstage, he's dead...

Terodactyl Yelnats: 10-90
Comment: Not as bad as Falco. Pivot grab them to fthrow.
Vs Sopo 65:35 Sopo can dthrow chaingrab you across the stage to a dtilt then proceed to edgeguard you. We **** him with sideB.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
:ganondorf: Vs :popo::popo:

:ganondorf: Vs :popo: (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard for the ICs to CG is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Bahamut: 0-100
Comment: *sigh*
vs SoPo: 60-40
Comment: Even without half of our nightmares, it's still a pain with the chain grabs and blizzard spacing... However, if SoPo gets on the air or offstage, he's dead...

Terodactyl Yelnats: 10-90
Comment: Not as bad as Falco. Pivot grab them to fthrow.
Vs Sopo 65:35 Sopo can dthrow chaingrab you across the stage to a dtilt then proceed to edgeguard you. We **** him with sideB.

A2ZOMG: FTHROW : TOO GOOD
^Yes I'm serious, that's the matchup ratio for the Ice Climbers.

Vs SoPo: 60:40
He has a gay chaingrab on you (who doesn't?), but you have choke combos and ultra **** edgeguards on him, and more range than he does. His Blizzard can only do so much when he doesn't have Nana behind him to back it up.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
Location
England
Vs

Vs (Solo Popo)

Z1GMA: 1 - 99
Comment: The rumor that Ganondorf is hard for the ICs to CG is irrelevant,
since they can Nanastool Infinite us, which is really, really easy on heavy characters.
Though, the major problem in this MU is desynced Blizzards.

ICs aren't as hard as Falco IMO.
Even top ICs can make mistakes or mess up (mostly Nana's fault, hah.)
However, top Falcos DON'T.

Solo Popo: 80 - 20
Comment: Our best MU!!
I always find myself grining when Popo stands alone in front of me.
When we fight Sopo, we don't really *fight* him - We're paying back.

Exalted: 0-666 (0-100)
Comment: CGs, Blizzards and desynching, oh dear...
While it isn't impossible to defeat the ICs, a good IC player will only mess up if Nana does. Try and separate them as good as you can.

Against Sopo: 80-20
Comment: Go. **** him. Now.
And @ Z1G; Yes this is our best MU! But also the rarest one. And it only lasts for so long D:

Bahamut: 0-100
Comment: *sigh*
vs SoPo: 60-40
Comment: Even without half of our nightmares, it's still a pain with the chain grabs and blizzard spacing... However, if SoPo gets on the air or offstage, he's dead...

Terodactyl Yelnats: 10-90
Comment: Not as bad as Falco. Pivot grab them to fthrow.
Vs Sopo 65:35 Sopo can dthrow chaingrab you across the stage to a dtilt then proceed to edgeguard you. We **** him with sideB.

A2ZOMG: FTHROW : TOO GOOD
^Yes I'm serious, that's the matchup ratio for the Ice Climbers.

Vs SoPo: 60:40
He has a gay chaingrab on you (who doesn't?), but you have choke combos and ultra **** edgeguards on him, and more range than he does. His Blizzard can only do so much when he doesn't have Nana behind him to back it up.

G~P: 10-90
it requires the most insanelly safe spacing known to man, anad with ganon that can only really be done with his tilts, if theyre close than the safe range for them, dear god escape.however they cant do all that much outside of the chain grab to us

vs. sopo: 50-50 this removes the grabbing, therefore the big threat, they can still chaingrab in a psuedo falco style though...stomp all you want, theyll die fast
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
A2, "FTHROW : TOO GOOD"...
I still want your ratio to be able to get an average ratio.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
A2, "FTHROW : TOO GOOD"...
I still want your ratio to be able to get an average ratio.
Okay, then I'll go by how much damage you get from those.

13 : 9001 (which is roughly .1 : 99.9)

It's honestly not that much less accurate anyway. As long as you disregard some silly outliers like Breezy vs Lain...I guess.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Moving on:

:ganondorf: Vs :zerosuitsamus:

Z1GMA: 20 - 80
Comment: She has a GC + additional attack on us which deals around 50%.
Everytime she lands a Dsmash (Ganon is one of the easier characters to land it on), we'll suffer 35%+ damage.
ZSS can hit us with both rising SH Bair and rising SH Fair, which really helps her getting the kill.

Ganon can mess a little with her if he gets under her, though.
And a Gerudo can often lead to some damage.
 

Sovereign

Game Reaper
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
2,292
Location
Indianapolis, IN
NNID
Sovereign90
:ganondorf: Vs :zerosuitsamus:

Z1GMA: 20 - 80
Comment: She has a GC + additional attack on us which deals around 50%.
Everytime she lands a Dsmash (Ganon is one of the easier characters to land it on), we'll suffer 35%+ damage.
ZSS can hit us with both rising SH Bair and rising SH Fair, which really helps her getting the kill.

Ganon can mess a little with her if he gets under her, though.
And a Gerudo can often lead to some damage.

Sovereign: 15- 85 (with suit pieces)/ 30 -70(without)
Comment: At the start of the match, you're already considered a stock down, unless you manage to get rid of those suit pieces or gain control of them. They create unapproachable walls, that protect her, almost indefinitely, so long as she continues to throw them up. Her damage racking, ground mobility, and defense game are at their peaks. All of her moves are safely covered by a well-places suit piece.
Do not try playing this game with her, because you will lose. Simply camp and shield all pieces thrown at you, and then throw them off, or wait for the items to disappear, since you have nothing to force an approach with.

She has all the juggle setups in the world to get us off our feet, and can easily rack another 50% from Uair chains alone, and then still have a follow-up with her UpB, dragging you back into the ****, where you will properly get tech chased into a Dsmash or another setup attack.
She also has a Dash Attack Lock, where at 35% - 45% she can combo her own Dash Attack across the length of the stage, setting up for some really easy gimps.
Even though it is rarely used by many ZSS mains, her Dair is not something to take lightly. We can beat it out with Uair, but everything else is just asking to be spiked into her quake which sets up for more aerial beat downs.
Your shield is your only salvation in this MU, since ZSS's spacing attacks are rather laggy after input, and can easily be defeated by waiting and biding your time.
You're capable of killing her off the side of the stage at roughly 63%. She's a feather, and all it takes is for her to make four mistakes to lose a stock.
Whenever you grab her, if you manage to, just Fthrow(13%) for damage racking.
Ftilt is a great move in this case, since it sends her straight and low angled trajectories, making it easier to edgehog. Just mindful that ZSS does not always require tether to recover. She can use her DownB and politely Featherstool you to gain significantly safe distance from you, while returning to the stage. If for some reason she uses DownB on the stage, and uses the attack, approach it with your shield, and the instant you block, punish. Her DownB attack lasts for a very long time, so don't think you can wait it out. You'll miss a good opportunity to punish, if you do.
Your kills will only come from reads, while hers will come from setups, so look for openings, and remember patterns.
 

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,533
Location
Chicago, IL
NNID
DLAhhh
Z1GMA: 20 - 80
Comment: She has a GC + additional attack on us which deals around 50%.
Everytime she lands a Dsmash (Ganon is one of the easier characters to land it on), we'll suffer 35%+ damage.
ZSS can hit us with both rising SH Bair and rising SH Fair, which really helps her getting the kill.

Ganon can mess a little with her if he gets under her, though.
And a Gerudo can often lead to some damage.

Sovereign: 15- 85 (with suit pieces)/ 30 -70(without)
Comment: At the start of the match, you're already considered a stock down, unless you manage to get rid of those suit pieces or gain control of them. They create unapproachable walls, that protect her, almost indefinitely, so long as she continues to throw them up. Her damage racking, ground mobility, and defense game are at their peaks. All of her moves are safely covered by a well-places suit piece.
Do not try playing this game with her, because you will lose. Simply camp and shield all pieces thrown at you, and then throw them off, or wait for the items to disappear, since you have nothing to force an approach with.

She has all the juggle setups in the world to get us off our feet, and can easily rack another 50% from Uair chains alone, and then still have a follow-up with her UpB, dragging you back into the ****, where you will properly get tech chased into a Dsmash or another setup attack.
She also has a Dash Attack Lock, where at 35% - 45% she can combo her own Dash Attack across the length of the stage, setting up for some really easy gimps.
Even though it is rarely used by many ZSS mains, her Dair is not something to take lightly. We can beat it out with Uair, but everything else is just asking to be spiked into her quake which sets up for more aerial beat downs.
Your shield is your only salvation in this MU, since ZSS's spacing attacks are rather laggy after input, and can easily be defeated by waiting and biding your time.
You're capable of killing her off the side of the stage at roughly 63%. She's a feather, and all it takes is for her to make four mistakes to lose a stock.
Whenever you grab her, if you manage to, just Fthrow(13%) for damage racking.
Ftilt is a great move in this case, since it sends her straight and low angled trajectories, making it easier to edgehog. Just mindful that ZSS does not always require tether to recover. She can use her DownB and politely Featherstool you to gain significantly safe distance from you, while returning to the stage. If for some reason she uses DownB on the stage, and uses the attack, approach it with your shield, and the instant you block, punish. Her DownB attack lasts for a very long time, so don't think you can wait it out. You'll miss a good opportunity to punish, if you do.
Your kills will only come from reads, while hers will come from setups, so look for openings, and remember patterns.

DLA: 40-60

One of my favorite MUs. Ganon survives FOREVER, as long as you're good at avoiding Dsmash. If you shield a Dsmash, roll away immediately. Other than that, be careful when she's below you, because ZSS frame traps with aerials pretty well. Wizkick is useful in this MU, as well as gerudo. The whole matchup is very dependent on reads. Edgeguarding can be tricky, but it's definitely possible. Bait or wait for the down B, then punish accordingly. Most kills will come from on the stage though--dash attack kills very early (especially an iDA out of Gerudo). Also, don't get fancy with the armor pieces... try to get them off the stage as soon as possible. Other than that, don't get stunned and don't take unnecessary hits, play patiently, and get those reads and you'll have no prob with this MU
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
Location
RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Z1GMA: 20 - 80
Comment: She has a GC + additional attack on us which deals around 50%.
Everytime she lands a Dsmash (Ganon is one of the easier characters to land it on), we'll suffer 35%+ damage.
ZSS can hit us with both rising SH Bair and rising SH Fair, which really helps her getting the kill.

Ganon can mess a little with her if he gets under her, though.
And a Gerudo can often lead to some damage.

Sovereign: 15- 85 (with suit pieces)/ 30 -70(without)
Comment: At the start of the match, you're already considered a stock down, unless you manage to get rid of those suit pieces or gain control of them. They create unapproachable walls, that protect her, almost indefinitely, so long as she continues to throw them up. Her damage racking, ground mobility, and defense game are at their peaks. All of her moves are safely covered by a well-places suit piece.
Do not try playing this game with her, because you will lose. Simply camp and shield all pieces thrown at you, and then throw them off, or wait for the items to disappear, since you have nothing to force an approach with.

She has all the juggle setups in the world to get us off our feet, and can easily rack another 50% from Uair chains alone, and then still have a follow-up with her UpB, dragging you back into the ****, where you will properly get tech chased into a Dsmash or another setup attack.
She also has a Dash Attack Lock, where at 35% - 45% she can combo her own Dash Attack across the length of the stage, setting up for some really easy gimps.
Even though it is rarely used by many ZSS mains, her Dair is not something to take lightly. We can beat it out with Uair, but everything else is just asking to be spiked into her quake which sets up for more aerial beat downs.
Your shield is your only salvation in this MU, since ZSS's spacing attacks are rather laggy after input, and can easily be defeated by waiting and biding your time.
You're capable of killing her off the side of the stage at roughly 63%. She's a feather, and all it takes is for her to make four mistakes to lose a stock.
Whenever you grab her, if you manage to, just Fthrow(13%) for damage racking.
Ftilt is a great move in this case, since it sends her straight and low angled trajectories, making it easier to edgehog. Just mindful that ZSS does not always require tether to recover. She can use her DownB and politely Featherstool you to gain significantly safe distance from you, while returning to the stage. If for some reason she uses DownB on the stage, and uses the attack, approach it with your shield, and the instant you block, punish. Her DownB attack lasts for a very long time, so don't think you can wait it out. You'll miss a good opportunity to punish, if you do.
Your kills will only come from reads, while hers will come from setups, so look for openings, and remember patterns.

DLA: 40-60

One of my favorite MUs. Ganon survives FOREVER, as long as you're good at avoiding Dsmash. If you shield a Dsmash, roll away immediately. Other than that, be careful when she's below you, because ZSS frame traps with aerials pretty well. Wizkick is useful in this MU, as well as gerudo. The whole matchup is very dependent on reads. Edgeguarding can be tricky, but it's definitely possible. Bait or wait for the down B, then punish accordingly. Most kills will come from on the stage though--dash attack kills very early (especially an iDA out of Gerudo). Also, don't get fancy with the armor pieces... try to get them off the stage as soon as possible. Other than that, don't get stunned and don't take unnecessary hits, play patiently, and get those reads and you'll have no prob with this MU

A2ZOMG: 3/7
ZSS is weird. On the one hand she has a terrible approach and camp game, so just waiting usually is safe. On the other hand it's frustratingly difficult to sneak past her low lag midrange game. Generally speaking though, she runs Ganon over once her combos start, so mistakes usually are extra costly in this matchup. Her light weight and vulnerability to Flame Choke combos means killing her usually isn't the problem in this matchup. Baiting, conditioning, and above all not getting hit by dumb powerful moves like her D-smash and SideB seem to be the priorities in this matchup.
 
Top Bottom