Q&A Falco Q&A

[noodles]

upsmash oos at ridiculous% after a laggy attack for the kill. shines combos so yeah.

 

[Mogwai]

i will ask again, when is it good to interrupt with u smash/shine oos? besides when they miss their fast fall/l cancel.

um, typically shield pressure falls into the form: aerial -> l-cancel -> quick ground attack -> aerial, etc. So assuming someone is shield pressuring you well, you want to shine/usmash OoS after the ground attack, before the next aerial, as that is when most players choose to leave themselves vulnerable. If then do the next aerial very quickly, you can just let that hit your shield and then you have all day to do w/e as they get out of lag.

on spacies, you can also hold your shield up, as that will usually screw up their fast falling time, and then shine OoS after the first aerial.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

upsmash oos at ridiculous% after a laggy attack for the kill. shines combos so yeah.

Maybe at low-mid percents it would be a nice idea to upsmash oos when under a platform and ready a tech read. Shine out of shield is nice but sometimes it's tough getting the momentum out of it than you would out of a pillar.

 

[Rannskita]

mogwai can you explain the theory of the isai drop in theory/button presses as well as you can? i think it was mentioned somewhere on the falco boards recently, but i diddnt understand it from that mention, and its not really anywhere on youtube or the compendium of knowledge that i can find. its not really character specific but falco uses it a lot with laser pressure and moving down through platforms, so im just asking here.

 

[TerenceLau]

thanks mogwai, your answer makes it a lot more clear. thanks others for the usage idea though, however, not quite the answer to my question.

isai drop is like dropping while dashing/running and the button i use is quarter-circle from left/right to down.

 

[JPOBS]

isai drop is hard i cant even do it lol

while where on the topic, mogwai is there a consisent, bonafide way to sheild drop through platforms everytime on command?

i spot dodge a lot or shield tilt when i try,

 

[Mogwai]

no, I never shield drop so I know absolutely nothing about actually doing it.

 

[JPOBS]

i see.

i do it on accident sometimes in different situations and figured it would be good to know how to do consistently cuz its much faster than a regular drop.

for the most part though, other than when i do happy feet combos, i dont like to regular drop its one ofthose things that seems needlessly laggy i dismount by either wavedashing/jumping/or walking offlol

 

[AvengerAngel]

What's the **** timing to tech Marf's lame counter on the ledge? I always end up getting gimped by that thing ;_;

 

[Mogwai]

just sweetspot so that you don't get hit, it's a lot easier than stressing teching the stupid thing. The timing is like any tech timing, just hit l or r 40 (I think it's 40, honestly can't remember) or fewer frames before you hit a wall/floor, but since you're usually above stage when it hits, you also have to smash DI down and in to get contact.

 

[pockyD]

20 frames

 

[AvengerAngel]

Is a well spaced Bair a good way to pressure shields? Am I supposed to use the auto-cancelled Bair or to use it as late as possible like I'm using a Dair during pillar? :x
And is Bair > Utilt safe? Or should I just stick to Bair spam? xP

 

[puckgood]

I was experimenting with fj lasers today, and I discovered that you can do the same thing as a DJ immediate ff laser by FJ, waiting a bit, tapping b twice then fastfalling. Why isn't this used more? Is there some flaw with it that I am missing?

 

[Rannskita]

i do it a lot but the little wait messes with my timing.

 

[Falcinho]

well its a bit slower ...

but if you dont want to risk being hit offstage without DJ you can use it

 

[Mogwai]

I was experimenting with fj lasers today, and I discovered that you can do the same thing as a DJ immediate ff laser by FJ, waiting a bit, tapping b twice then fastfalling. Why isn't this used more? Is there some flaw with it that I am missing?

both of these. DJing accelerates quicker than Full Hop and it also makes the positioning much easier.

i do it a lot but the little wait messes with my timing.

well its a bit slower ...

but if you dont want to risk being hit offstage without DJ you can use it

Is a well spaced Bair a good way to pressure shields? Am I supposed to use the auto-cancelled Bair or to use it as late as possible like I'm using a Dair during pillar? :x
And is Bair > Utilt safe? Or should I just stick to Bair spam? xP

using bair to pressure shields is all about spacing, so you don't actually want to be putting it where it'll hit their shield, and instead you want to put it right in their face so that if they try to do something, they get hit. Towards this goal, autocancel is better because it keeps the hitbox out longer and has less lag when you land. bair -> utilt should only be used as a combo, when you're hitting shields, a lot of characters can shield grab utlit.

 

[Rannskita]

i wanna be able to shine a spacies recovery. i cant do it with fox onstage without crouchcancelling help, and i find it hard to shine a charging firefox without invincibility (as falco or fox). whats the hitbox stuff i need to know to learn this, do i have to be really precise?

i know this is not useful at all as falco but i wanna be able to be flashy in friendlies and shine bair/dair a firefox (and i wanna be able to shine gimp firefoxes and illusions as fox). i feel like if i understood the frames/hitboxes i could work out how to consistantly do it, but i have no clue.

 

[Mogwai]

shine hits on frame 1, so it's just about knowing the hitbox and timing it right. most of the time you see it off stage, the spacie is taking advantage of their ledge grab invincibility frames to not get by the up B and just getting right on top of the opponent. to be perfectly frank, it's ****ing ******** to try to Falco shine a recovery without invincibility frames, as you're trying to hit them with a move that has atrocious range and doesn't send them in a useful direction. if you wanna practice it to be flashy, go ahead, but I really don't have any tips for it because it's not a good idea. I guess you could just play infinite time with a level 1 Fox since you know he'll always up B so you can practice the spacing, but I would recommend practicing literally anything that has any utility in matches before practicing that. also note that Falco's shine has less range than Fox's, so it's even more difficult to do it right with Falco and the reward is much less... lose lose...

 

[Rannskita]

i only even thought about it cos cpu falcos and foxes were shining my illusion and firebird. its a revenge thing

shine has no projectile reflection, but does have invincibility first frame, is that right?

 

[Mogwai]

hits on frame 1
nothing on frames 2 and 3
reflection from frame 4 to when you release + 1

 

[TresChikon]

i only even thought about it cos cpu falcos and foxes were shining my illusion and firebird. its a revenge thing

shine has no projectile reflection, but does have invincibility first frame, is that right?

Computers shine spike? really i wanna get shine spiked, it's sort of a fetish thing, like getting kneed by lv 1 falcon

 

[Rannskita]

they both stand at the very edge, foxes spikes you and tryhard falco just sends you up and onstage like a nub.

 

[TresChikon]

falco just sends you up and onstage like a nub.

u wont be sayin that when cp falco learns to shine aerial

 

[V3ctorMan]

MMMMOOOOGGGGGWWWWWAAAAAAAIIIIIII!!

^^ what's up man? just thought i'd drop by and say YYOO!! good **** on the thread man.. I'm in wyoming... smash is weak *sigh* anyway.. ttyl hopefully

see ya at Pat's house.. "maybe" and pound 4 "maybe"

 

[Mogwai]

MMMMOOOOGGGGGWWWWWAAAAAAAIIIIIII!!

^^ what's up man? just thought i'd drop by and say YYOO!! good **** on the thread man.. I'm in wyoming... smash is weak *sigh* anyway.. ttyl hopefully

see ya at Pat's house.. "maybe" and puond 4 "maybe"

yo, whatup son?

I'm definitely not making Pat's house, but I expect to see you and Axe **** it. Tell him to stop playing as the best pikachu in the world and instead work on becoming the best Falco in the world

if you make it to Pound 4, we'll definitely have to play... make it happen!

 

[JPOBS]

omg stop discouraging people from ****** with low tiers!!!

we have enough high tier lame-o's going around, the dedicated low tier mains are my favs to watch!

i died a little inside when taj went marth at genesis.....

 

[Mogwai]

Taj has gone Marth for a long long time now.

anyway, Axe has super serious potential at this game, but Pikachu sucks XD. I'd like him to do well because his Falco is hella legit. There is seriously only so far that you can get in this game with anyone below Peach/CF and the current top end metagame has progressed well beyond that point.

 

[JPOBS]

i definitely agree. and i know taj has gone marth for a long long time.

its just refreshing to me to see the low tier mains stick to it because watching pika/mewtwo/bowser/link/etc wreck high tiers at tournies is much more enjoyable that fox vs falco version 12309404.

i know its selfish of me to say these things because when playing in a big tourny i know everyone wants to do as well as possible and playing higher tier chars give you the best chance, but imo, everyone already knows the low mains **** at this game, and if the difference in placing is like, from 20th to 10th then meh. low tier mains keep this game refreshing, more power to em. (says the falco main rofl)

 

[V3ctorMan]

.....honestly man... lol I don't know....I told EVERYONE from day one.. that his Pikachu was his best char, at times he had doubts... but...it's just a fact.. now, He knows it, and for the time being.. it might only be the gimmick factor but hey, why not

Just his falco, couldn't beat top notch players, Jman, Lucky, Mango, Lunin, few others at genesis.. but where his Falco failed.. His Pikachu exceeded AND with flyin colors too! n n

so idk.. I think Axe's Pikachu... honestly should be High tier, Pikachu low tier still.. but AXE'S PIKACHU.. high tier for sure!!!

 

[YEAH!]

HA! tim your so stupid it should be top tier and you should come back to S.V. im so sad and jeff should too!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Low tiers can be useful for counterpick purposes and some are surprisingly good on dumb stages.

Having said that, if you main Falco...

Well, I don't know what matchup you'd possibly need an alt for except maybe dittos if you hate them or Puff / Peach if you're going to run out of patience and / or tech skill mid-match.

I don't think most low tiers have much more to them. Beyond some situational tricks, anyways. Really it just boils down to them developing more and more ways to beat people unfamiliar with them in real fighting, and that translates more and more to "camp bad characters", which is what happens. Or at least that's what should happen; people don't seem to get that Pikachu is actually dangerous near the edge...

 

[JPOBS]

ya, i have alts for Peach/puff because of how ******** it is fighting them as falco.

they have ******** punishes and death blows that can swing a match even if you are outplaying them for the most part.

 

[Handorin]

All about PikaChad's Pikachu

 

[soap]

pikachad v. jman's falco was so cool

 

[KirbyKaze]

PikaChad is definitely Ash Ketchum in disguise.

His Pikachu cheats.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I completely encourage ppl to use low tiers.

only if they can use them well tho lol. I hate seeing someone pick a low tier and get wrecked cuz they are using a bad character and are bad at the game. that just saddens me.

 

[ipitydatfu]

rannskita, theres alot of platform dropping shenanigans on this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106622

 

[ZoSo]

thanks mogwai, your answer makes it a lot more clear. thanks others for the usage idea though, however, not quite the answer to my question.

isai drop is like dropping while dashing/running and the button i use is quarter-circle from left/right to down.

isai drop is hard i cant even do it lol

while where on the topic, mogwai is there a consisent, bonafide way to sheild drop through platforms everytime on command?

i spot dodge a lot or shield tilt when i try,

Isai dropping is where you land on a platform with a move that auto cancels and interrupt the landing animation (during which you cannot drop through a platform) by walking slightly forward and then drop through. Only time you would ever really use this with Falco would be after a laser if you land on a platform.

 

[Rannskita]

rannskita, theres alot of platform dropping shenanigans on this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106622

thankyou, useful thread

 

[Meneks]

How do i play against samus?
Any samus really