Q&A Falco Q&A

[JPOBS]

klaptrap wont get you if you're fast

falling from either of the outter edges, forward b, the invincibility frames last all the way up until you catch the bottom platform at which point you get a refresher, as long as you dont hang, you can pretty much move fearlessly under/around the platforms if you're quick but yea getting hit sucks

 

[Mogwai]

well, again it comes back to risk vs. reward. I know the frame data and I know you're only vulnerable on that stage when you shoot/land if you're doing frame perfect forward tricksies, but if you're a couple frames off and you get hit by klaptrap, that's a stock. if you succeed, you get to run away and shoot more lasers for small amounts more damage. you're playing with fire on that stage, you better be **** confident that you're skill enough to not get burned.

 

[pockyD]

Wes I have a serious question for you.

How is it that I, who knows so much about Falco and this game is so limited in skill? I feel like when people play me they are dissappointed because I'm not a total beast or w/e in this game. I also feel like I may have let them down. And lately I seem to be playing worse and worse. How can this be? How can a well respected player who has knowledge and trains hard and knows how to train not be good at this game?

WTF is my problem in your opinion?

How in the world can someone like me who already knows alot of tricks and strats improve?

I would hate to think that I have hit my limit.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I use japes for sheik...i dunno who else would be good there.

 

[Mogwai]

Wes I have a serious question for you.

How is it that I, who knows so much about Falco and this game is so limited in skill? I feel like when people play me they are dissappointed because I'm not a total beast or w/e in this game. I also feel like I may have let them down. And lately I seem to be playing worse and worse. How can this be? How can a well respected player who has knowledge and trains hard and knows how to train not be good at this game?

WTF is my problem in your opinion?

How in the world can someone like me who already knows alot of tricks and strats improve?

I would hate to think that I have hit my limit.

Well, if I can break my being-so-limited-in-skill complex, I'll let you know, but I honestly feel like we're in the exact same boat T_T.

Right now, I think a large part of it is the knowing how to train thing. I feel like I'm doing something wrong when I actively try to improve my game and I can't honestly put my finger on what it is. I'd like to be able to just spew off some suggestions, but what I'm doing got me exactly 1 more win in Genesis brackets than what you're doing so I don't think I'm in any sort of position to give you advice about getting over the roadblock that I believe we're both at.

Sometimes I look at MaNg0, Armada, JMan, and Hax and just think, "****, maybe 23 is just too old to properly learn how to play this game." I hope I wrong though.

 

[JPOBS]

heh, sometimes i feel the same mogwai and pocky.

like i already know how to do every technical move and all the basic strats but that doesnt always translate into wins.

i dunno, i've been thinking about changing my play style to be more dynamic and random and mindgamey, which is why i've been asking about awkward stages, i feel like i am peaking in the textbook falco playstyle and need an intervention.

so ya, we're all in the same boat i guess.

 

[pockyD]

=[ that was a joke post

EMBLEM LOOOOOORD

I don't actually know **** about falco or even play him

on the other hand,

I don't want to make a big post on this because people don't like the idea of it, but the answer is really just natural talent. Possibly combined with environmental effects such as training partners and such. I like to say that having a good attitude towards improvement is what helped me so much, but I am (this sounds conceited) really just that kind of person that learns everything easily. Some people just have to work much much harder than others to succeed.

 

[noodles]

ive had one of those random moments where i get slighty better and see parts of the game differently the other day, so you guys are on your own :D.

you guys are farther then me though so iunno when ill get to the wall/if ill hit it or not.

 

[TresChikon]

I don't want to make a big post on this because people don't like the idea of it, but the answer is really just natural talent.

Hmm.. would you say that some people could be naturally talented to play low tier characters just as well/better than high tiers without working any harder, yet have trouble reaching the same level with a high tier character?

Who do you play anyways? Or is that a hidden secret?

 

[JPOBS]

lol i've been swindled

 

[Mogwai]

hahaha, I had never seen that emblem lord post, I thought that part about knowing a lot about Falco was fishy. but yea, w/e, I mean what I said.

 

[Ryzol_]

Is it possible for falco to edgehop an aerial with invincibility frames and hit someone on level ground ie not on a platform? Is his air jump too high for this to work?

 

[ArcNatural]

Is it possible for falco to edgehop an aerial with invincibility frames and hit someone on level ground ie not on a platform? Is his air jump too high for this to work?

You can hit them on the way up, not on the way down.

 

[Alukard]

Well, if I can break my being-so-limited-in-skill complex, I'll let you know, but I honestly feel like we're in the exact same boat T_T.

Right now, I think a large part of it is the knowing how to train thing. I feel like I'm doing something wrong when I actively try to improve my game and I can't honestly put my finger on what it is. I'd like to be able to just spew off some suggestions, but what I'm doing got me exactly 1 more win in Genesis brackets than what you're doing so I don't think I'm in any sort of position to give you advice about getting over the roadblock that I believe we're both at.

Sometimes I look at MaNg0, Armada, JMan, and Hax and just think, "****, maybe 23 is just too old to properly learn how to play this game." I hope I wrong though.

its definitely just the mindset that ur both in because i'm 23 and i'm improving everytime i pick up controller and examine people that play better then me. Just make sure when u want to see how good u are, u had some good sleep and u have ur mind all into the game.

it can also be reaction time too ... its a big big part of this game ... along with enough tech skill for w.e character u play

 

[Ryzol_]

How does ledgehop single laser compare to ledgehop double laser? Other than the slightly less damage are there any differences between lhsl and lhdl? It seems easier to precisely aim lhsl, and I have a lot of trouble being consistent with lhdl.

 

[Mogwai]

well, along with less damage, you also aren't putting them in hitstun for as long so like, if you're lasering at the end, they'll just hit you out of it at the beginning and if you're lasering at the beginning, they have all day to punish you after they get hit before you land. If they're REALLY far away and you don't care about hitstun or damage potential and think you'll hit one laser, but miss both of lhdl, then sure, only fire once.

 

[bolt.]

What is the best way to play floaties? I usually play more horizontal that I would against medium and fast fallers. Is that the right thing to do?

Do you have any falco training tips that will help my all around play instead of just combo potential?

And would you like to play melee sometime and help me with my falco?

 

[Mogwai]

What is the best way to play floaties? I usually play more horizontal that I would against medium and fast fallers. Is that the right thing to do?

I don't exactly follow what you're saying. Puff and Peach have terrible vertical oriented moves, so I tend to try to keep myself above/below them. Marth has utilt so I don't try to stay above that ****er. I mean, it's more character specific than just "floaties."

Do you have any falco training tips that will help my all around play instead of just combo potential?

Play vs. people a lot. Watch high level Falcos (Mango, Shiz, Forward, Chops, Zhu) in tournies and MMs and pay attention to how they control the neutral game (the part of the game before one character gets complete control through tech chasing/comboing).

And would you like to play melee sometime and help me with my falco?

I'll pretty much play with anyone who comes to Stamford, just like, PM/IM me or post in one of these threads when you wanna play (since they're the ones I check when I'm looking to play after work):
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175633
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224051

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

So, how do you guys edgeguard with falco, both on the ledge and on stage, against Fox, Marth, CF, and Falco?

Right now I'm just bair'ing firefoxes and downsmashing or grabbing predictable side-B's. I'm also bair'ing CF's, but I have no idea how to edgeguard marth :\

 

[TresChikon]

Do the lightshield trick.

 

[noodles]

can someone explain that in more depth? someone i roll hold z and angle it but most of the time i dont drop. and do you have to let go once it works? i find that if im still holding it down i keep falling and miss the ledge. sometimes i react and let go then it works.

 

[Rannskita]

with marth use lasers a lot while hes recovering for definate....

if itll work you can edgehog with invincibility so he upBs onstage, then edgehop bair? i dunno, that works a fair amount of time for me but i dunno what mogwai's gonna say


edit: the lightsheild trick you roll to the edge, lightsheild (using z or just lightly holding l or r) and angle it down and offstage and keep holding it. when the marth tries to sweetspot the tip of his sword hits the side of your sheild nearest the stage, which pushes you offstage and edgehogs him. i guess make sure you arent holding down too much or you wont grab the ledge or something? :\ i dunno i dont have that problem.

 

[TresChikon]

Don't angle it, just stand at the edge and lightshield, it's not 100 effective, but it can throw off a marth who is trying to sweetspot

 

[Da Shuffla]

I angle it out, just not down and out.

 

[TresChikon]

Well if you want to angle, be sure to let go because the directional input will prevent you from grabbing the ledge

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

I also play Marth and it's fairly easy to just drop down so my dolphin slash doesn't scrape the light shield.

But say I'm falco playing against a Marth who does what I do. How do I react then? <_<

Edit: nevermind, stupid question, I would just wavedash and grab the ledge

 

[Mogwai]

well, the lightshield trick is pretty commitmental, there's not nearly enough time between "Marth is high enough to hit my shield" and "Marth is at that one perfect spacing where he'll get the ledge b4 me" to do anything in reaction. If you try to lightshield trick someone and they show you that they can sweetspot through it, don't do it again and just do an edgehog based edgeguard in situations where you'd otherwise use it.

 

[TresChikon]

Pretty much, it requires like a perfect sweetspot. Which is tough for me, but if it's a little off then you can exploit it.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Your pics and animated gif are hilarious. When camping with lasers whats a good cross over I can do so I can keep camping? I tried spacing tilts or just running past them with drill shines when they get to close for comfort but it breaks up a lot of my momentum.

 

[TresChikon]

Drill Shine? Does that also refer to Falco's dair? Anyways, if you land a "drill shine," you might as well follow up the combo.

Well the top platform is your friend against slower chars like Peach for camping, by the time they get there, you're already on the ground and lasering.

You can switch to spacing with bair if you'd rather not get to close.

can someone explain that in more depth? someone i roll hold z and angle it but most of the time i dont drop. and do you have to let go once it works? i find that if im still holding it down i keep falling and miss the ledge. sometimes i react and let go then it works.

I just read some of Magus's material.

The best way to do it is to ASDI towards the ledge, at the last frame of shieldstun from his blade, the input of the ASDI will influence you offstage and onto the ledge.

I love Magus <3

 

[TresChikon]

EDIT = ****, sorry, Magus's stuff got me excited so i accidentally double posted.

 

[Mogwai]

Your pics and animated gif are hilarious. When camping with lasers whats a good cross over I can do so I can keep camping? I tried spacing tilts or just running past them with drill shines when they get to close for comfort but it breaks up a lot of my momentum.

Honestly, it's pretty tough to cross over and keep camping with how fast everyone plays these days. On some stages, you can do ledgecanceled illusions to the top platform to get some quick space, but most top tiers will be on you like white on rice once they get you to stop shooting. I typically try to put my opponent in shield when they're getting close by pressuring with nair and then go for one of my shield pressure mixups (double shine, shine grab, standard pillar, shine -> MaNg0 fadeback nair) to either start a combo or just get them off my nuts.

 

[TerenceLau]

what are the frame datas for u smash and shine oos for falco? under what conditions can you interrupt another falco with those attacks oos?

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Earliest shine OOS is on the 7th frame. Upsmash on the other hand is one frame longer if you do it frame perfect or six frames longer if you do it at the latest. This is not accounting shield stun though.

Mogwai that fade back nair sounds awesome. Gonna try that next time I get some games in.

 

[Sraigux]

When SHLing do you fast fall as soon as you can? Because my laser does not come out of my gun when I fast fall asap

 

[noodles]

move your finger from jump->b faster

also mogwai, im very upset that i didnt show you my falco when we played ):

 

[Mogwai]

When SHLing do you fast fall as soon as you can? Because my laser does not come out of my gun when I fast fall asap

You don't have to, but you can and should. Falco's smallest number of airbourne frames (with a SH, Fast Fall) is 17 and your first aerial laser comes out on frame 13, so you have a 4 frame window to start your laser and still have it come out before landing when you Fast Fall ASAP.

also mogwai, im very upset that i didnt show you my falco when we played ):

fix that tomorrow I need some combo vid material and Falco dittos are pretty good at that

oh yea, I've gotten excited to make a combo vid again, I'll keep yall updated.

 

[noodles]

where is the smash going to be at?

 

[TerenceLau]

i will ask again, when is it good to interrupt with u smash/shine oos? besides when they miss their fast fall/l cancel.

 

[JPOBS]

upsmash out of shield with falco is funny cuz they never see it coming and its not really something falcos do.

but it depends on who you're playing i guess and were they are and how they are pressuring your shield.

like if its fox or falco, and they are all up in your grits you might as well shine oos and combo from there, but if its like falco spacing nairs or like jiggs jabbin or something out of shine reach go for the upsmash

and i usually go for it either after they land and before they throw out another attack, or after they leave the ground for a shffl but before the aerial comes out

but im a nub so wait for mogwai lol