Fox Discussion Thread

[Lightning93]

Yeah I agree, Fox doesn't seem to be high tier, but he does seem to be upper middle. However unfair advantages can be argued. Do you consider it unfair that one person that has enough "skill" to d-throw chain a Fox and kill with a well timed smash using Pikachu can beat a very experienced Fox? Although that's not really a situation of tier vs tier, it's still an unfair advantage. This is the same situation at my school, my friend the Toon Link main I know has much more skill than my other the MK main, but who wins more? Metaknight. Whatever though, you're right it is a definite advantage, but I guess it being it unfair is really an opinion. I just find it ridiculous how easy I win when I play MK lol... .

You're right though, I'm going to keep improving my Fox.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Yeah I agree, Fox doesn't seem to be high tier, but he does seem to be upper middle. However unfair advantages can be argued. Do you consider it unfair that one person that has enough "skill" to d-throw chain a Fox and kill with a well timed smash using Pikachu can beat a very experienced Fox? Although that's not really a situation of tier vs tier, it's still an unfair advantage. This is the same situation at my school, my friend the Toon Link main I know has much more skill than my other the MK main, but who wins more? Metaknight. Whatever though, you're right it is a definite advantage, but I guess it being it unfair is really an opinion. I just find it ridiculous how easy I win when I play MK lol... .

You're right though, I'm going to keep improving my Fox.

NIGGA FUCK YO PIKACHU, JUZ DUN GET GRABBED M I RITE!?

but seriously, youre right sorta. its not their place on the tier list its how the matchup is, Fox ovbiously CAN beat pika, but only if said fox has more skill than said pika,i mean ICs have a 0-death cg on him(then again they do on everybody) and if you can beat them, you can beat pika,this is why you need to know all the info on youre matchups

and at the most Fox can probobly pull off being bottom of high tier and thats about it

 

[Lightning93]

Of course, but it's just wrong when you need SO MUCH more skill to beat Pika with Fox, then Fox with Pika.

 

[Shadow_Bane]

Fenrir is the only one who's TOO optimistic about Fox. He'll probably wake up Christmas morning and go... hey you know what, Fox can **** Pikachu... here's how....

lmao.
It wouldn't be called **** because pika would go:
"pika pika...pik pika pikachu"
Translation: "You can do me, just don't **** me."

Fox = Cool
Cool = Punk Rock Love
lol

Of course, but it's just wrong when you need SO MUCH more skill to beat Pika with Fox, then Fox with Pika.

Ya.
It suck a**.
We just need to keep improving his meta.

 

[Shadow_Bane]

More of my storys.
Okay.....so I was doing Doubles again.
And there was 3 warios[one being me] and a fox.

[Okay this is what led to 3 Wars & a Fox:]
We started to mess around.
Well I did because, you know when someone acts all that and s***.
So I gave him a little bit of my Fox action and started killing him/her.
I ended up deciding in trying to make em cry by using Sonic.
I would AAA...run off...and do "UR TOO SLOW!!!"
I'm guessing he got pissed cause he just started going off on me.

Well all this ended up in me choosing Wario and using his ^taunt.
And this led to me to hit him with any of my moves and preceding to using his ^taunt.
I did this like 5 more matches, when he decided to use War too.

[Okay this is the 3 Wars and the Fox:]
Me and the other 2 Wars started doing what I started....hit then ^taunt.
Then we started spamming fsmash.
And we were just canceling each others fsmash.
Fox was just trying to kill kill kill so he kept getting hit by the enemy Warios.
It was SO funny cause all we were doing for like 45 sec was "hughh!!"
fsmash fsmash fsmash.

I got the replay but can't find my vid camera.
When I do I'll put it up.
[Well, if I can]

 

[SmashBrother2008]

NIGGA FUCK YO PIKACHU, JUZ DUN GET GRABBED M I RITE!?

but seriously, youre right sorta. its not their place on the tier list its how the matchup is, Fox ovbiously CAN beat pika, but only if said fox has more skill than said pika,i mean ICs have a 0-death cg on him(then again they do on everybody) and if you can beat them, you can beat pika,this is why you need to know all the info on youre matchups

and at the most Fox can probobly pull off being bottom of high tier and thats about it

I'm thinking bottom of high tier. Any more than that and he'll be overused. At least top of Middle...

 

[Lightning93]

Lol Shadow Bane, the funny part is that everyone else joined in...

 

[SCOTU]

something to look at to help you out if you're feeling stupid:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209309

 

[Hero.]

I finally got a wii and brawl for christmas. I'm not a newb to the smash bros series but I'm not a serious hardcore player. I need help playing my friends olimar I can never beat him any tips? He just constantly throws pikmin at me and they do so much damage. Pisses me off.

 

[SCOTU]

shine pikmin back lol.

dair>dsmash him off the stage>nair>edgehog.

 

[-Mars-]

Fox has an actual approach on Olimar that keeps him from being grabbed. Due to Oli's lack of normal grab armor, nair>jab goes right through the pikmin and the jab prevents the grab.

 

[Leafplayer452]

SmashWiki's Pro's and Con's of Fox.

Pro's
* Fast overall character.
* Attacks nicely combo with one another
* Attacks come out quick.
* Neutral A combo rack up quick damge, especially if the opponnent is close to a wall.
* Neutral A combo can also attack from behind, but to a certain extent.
* A good combination of air moves.
* Forward smash is a fast and good kill move.
* Up Smash and up aerial are some of the best vertical kill moves in the game.
* Can dash up-smash which can quickly finish opponents and catch them off-guard
* Blaster can build up some quick damage from a distance.
* Can short hop triple laser, an improvement from Melee.
* Fox's blaster can be used to steal K.O.s
* Can reflect projectiles.
* Reflector can semi-spike people, can trap people against walls, and can slow down vertical movement allowing players to aim Fox's recovery move.
* Reflector can damage opponents when they are knocked on the floor.
* Down air can lead into combos such as the drillshine or dair into up-tilt/up-smash making it a great way to rack up damage or finishing an opponent. It also is a meteor smash, though a fairly weak one.
* Forward air can add vertical distance to Fox's first jump.
* Forward air can add up to 23% damage and has some K.O. potential.
* A short-hopped Neutral air fast-fall is a great way to stop an opponets apporach.
* Back air is a low trajectory killer.
* Can Jump shine and Dash Shine.
* Can Wall Jump.
* Fox Illusion can be used as a recovery move
* Fox Illusion can also be canceled mid-way through the move, tricking opponents
* Fastest falling speed in the game, which makes shff'd aerials very quick.

Con's
* Very easy to KO. (5th lightest character in the game).
* His Fire Fox recovery can be caped and edge-guarded easily, making it only decent recovery.
* Easy to combo and chain grab.
* Blaster doesn't stun.
* Has a hard time with Horizontal KOs.
* Fairly short range.
* Overly reliant on Up Smash and up aerial for kills.
* Fox Illusion can SD if not used correctly.
____________________________________________________________________
Infinite?


Original thread - http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183731

Forward Tilt Lock and Neutral Air Lock - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTy8Xq0h2Po

I dont understand why Fox is the 5th lightest character in the game but still has the fastest falling speed.

 

[Lightning93]

Cause Brawl's physics are messed up. No character should be able to hit someone farther with the same move just because he has already been hit with it.

 

[Zhamy]

I dont understand why Fox is the 5th lightest character in the game but still has the fastest falling speed

He's actually 7th.

 

[SCOTU]

because "weight" is an inaccurate term and should be "Launch resistance". Fox is the 7th* most susceptible character to knockback. This has nothing to do with the fall speed.

 

[ColinJF]

Fox doesn't have the fastest falling speed by the way; Dedede is the fastest faller. Fox just has the fastest average falling speed over short distances, which is the reason he gets screwed by the likes of Pikachu and Sheik.

 

[Chileno4Live]

I hate it when im trapped in Sheik's Ftilt it makes me sad. What advantages are there for Fox's falling speed, i mean, are there only bad statements for his falling speed? Also IF pikachu doesn't CG you, how is the match up? I think these questions should go to the questions thread but i think i like to discuss these things, if thats ok with you.

The Pikachu's i've fought so far over WiFi weren't the best ones, but they tried to CG me. I've played very defensively VS Pikachu's and always created distance.I Shieldgrab most of the time and when they managed to CG me i try to DI out of the Dsmash (which doesn't work most of the time since i'm still learning to DI). Sheik, i hate those, won't even discuss XD their so annoying and as fast as Fox.

 

[Zhamy]

I hate it when im trapped in Sheik's Ftilt it makes me sad. What advantages are there for Fox's falling speed, i mean, are there only bad statements for his falling speed?

I know there are some, but nothing I can think of off the top of my head.

Also IF pikachu doesn't CG you, how is the match up?

He still ***** you pretty badly.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

his fast falling does allow you to land and chase people persay. thats one of the few good things i think of all the time.

 

[Lightning93]

Also, you can't be CG'd by DDD, which gives you the chance of having a fun time combo-ing his girth. But I don't really know if that's because of your falling speed, Shiek can't be CG'd either I know.

EDIT: Oh yeah! Fox is one of the only characters who can catch the Meta-Ridley trophy as it falls down. Although I've tried like 5 times and always missed it lol.

 

[-Mars-]

Foxs' falling speed allows you to apply crazy pressure on characters. You can throw out AC SH aerials at blindingly fast speed and chain attack very effectively. If he didn't fall so fast, his ground speed wouldn't be as useful.

Charizard has fast run speed, but he isn't played as fast because he doesn't have quick fall speed.

 

[Conviction]

Foxs' falling speed allows you to apply crazy pressure on characters. You can throw out AC SH aerials at blindingly fast speed and chain attack very effectively. If he didn't fall so fast, his ground speed wouldn't be as useful.

Charizard has fast run speed, but he isn't played as fast because he doesn't have quick fall speed.

Mars is right nods* just play him. He really proves his point.

 

[xTrav8]

Fox

any tips on being better with Fox? like stratagies

 

[JigglyZelda003]

there is a begginers Fox guide somewhere around the Fox boards its real good so go check it out.

for induvidual matchup stategies look to the matchup thread.

 

[Bevo]

what's up guys. i have been really busy lately and i haven't been checking the thread. seems to be moving along nicely without me.. anyways, i've been fooling around with Fox in Brawl a lot more and i am getting more confident in his overall meta-game. it's all thanks to the wonderful people in the forums who start those great threads, and the just-as-wonderful-if-not-more-so people who put great points out there and actually test and perfect these methods. keep up the good work.

-thanks for keeping the thread up, it's all you guys. i don't take any credit at all for the work done here.
i'll add more names to the list when i get time. i'm out. keep up the discussion.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah where have you been Bevo we missed you.

 

[Conviction]

any tips on being better with Fox? like stratagies

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212572 go there. And this question was better off in Q and A thread.

 

[Sukai]

Hey, I've started a project on Fox and I would appreciate any support given.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214078
If you think that this is a useless feat, then that's quite fine, just try not to rub it in.

 

[Chileno4Live]

I don't get why Pikachu owns Fox if he doesn't CG. You can shine his Thunder and his Thunderjolts so what makes the match up so unbalanced? Also, as ya can see, i main quite some characters. Which out of them is the best VS Pikachu? Just check my signature =D

 

[NinjaFoxX]

QAC, Dsmash, overall better priority.

yeah...

 

[Zhamy]

I don't get why Pikachu owns Fox if he doesn't CG. You can shine his Thunder and his Thunderjolts so what makes the match up so unbalanced? Also, as ya can see, i main quite some characters. Which out of them is the best VS Pikachu? Just check my signature =D

10Metaknights, obviously.

As far as Pikachu ******, Bair, Nair, Crossup Fair, QAC into completely safe approaches, getting ***** by thunderbolt zoning (since reflecting them when he's close to you makes you eat a grab or attack), nearly ungimpable recovery, ability to rack up damage quickly...

It goes on and on.

Dsmash really isn't that bad, though, since you can SDI that crap like no other.

 

[Sukai]

Ouch.
Fox dropped 5 spots.
We gotta step our game up!

 

[Chileno4Live]

Yeah i noticed that Fox dropped, pretty gay >_< 'll promised to play more with him, and maybe u can go to a tournament here in the Netherlands. Other than that, i'll get my dazzle recorder soon, so i hope i can record some vids and show how Fox *****.

Also, **** that Pikachu is so gay x.x He owns Fox yes, i think he's the worst match up of them all isn't he >_< Sheik, i find personally ALOT more annoying, but thats personal lol. Err, what are Fox's good match ups, i know he does well VS KD3 and Snake, but are there any other characters? Because i looked at the match up thread and Fox is in disadvantage most of the time, is Fox that bad i mean'c'mon >_<

 

[Conviction]

Ouch.
Fox dropped 6 spots.
We gotta step our game up!

Fix'd your post.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

ROB, Boozer, D3, Snake i think is kinda iffy and maybe needs a bit of relook. and a 40:60 X character isn't that bad of a disadvantage. its when its 35:65+ that you really have to worry.

 

[Conviction]

I'm happy the new tier list spiked soe activity here. I just wish it wasn't a negative influence... but if that's the way it has to be so be it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah, can't really complain with it at this point, not like mK is going anywhere for a very long time, or never.

 

[Conviction]

Falco can outplay snake it's been proven by M2K himself and Falco's Match-up with MK is 50:50 or 55:45 Falco.... Now Why isn't Falco the best character?

 

[Lightning93]

*goes to see new tier list*

WHAT THE FUDGE. I UNDERSTAND BOWSAH *****, BUT NOT AS MUCH AS FOX!

I guess people still have to understand the power of a shine in Brawl. I had been pulling double shine spikes and drill shines all day in a tourney, and then I play against one Fox who manages to barely pull off one shine spike, and since it was a ditto everybody was watching and started freaking out screaming, WHAT THIS ISN'T MELEE! I think people underestimate Fox, I'm just glad we're not as bad off as Ganon and CF. At least we have the element, of surprise...

 

[Conviction]

Lol true that Light. You need to teach me to drillshine thou.