Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[dre_89_]

I didn't read athrough all the pages but did anyone mention that RL can force the opponent to approach you with either a roll or jump, which can be anticipated into a BS or VW respectively, and that if you RL when baout 2-3 body lengths away the hitstun can set them up for an attack such as a dash grab-dthrow-VW (the VW is abit speculative but it's hard to punish).

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

razorleaf is a terrible projectile. its really slow on startup, u cant aim it well, it does not do a lot of damage, it tires ivysaur out really fast if you spam it, and is only safe to use far away. I would only use it when far away as I find myself getting punished more often than not when used closer than half the distance of say battlefield.

 

[Ryusuta]

I wouldn't call Razor Leaf fantastic, but I think "terrible" is a bit of a stretch. It cuts through a lot of projectiles, detonates Snake's grenades, and can be fired while moving. It's also his second-to-last prayer of getting back safely when he's knocked off-stage at a bad angle.

 

[dre_89_]

Yeah with regards to using it at close you have to use it at the right time, usually out of a roll doge is pretty good, eg. roll dodging away from an aerial, BS to shield, to roll to RL, rolling away from a foolish smash attack attempt etc. I find plenty of situations where you can RL at close range to set up a string.

 

[Sulfur]

I personally use Razor Leaf mostly as a poke to see how they react. I'll do a double Nair and then back off with RL, trying to coax them into the air. Might just be the people I play with though.

 

[Ghetto Fabulous]

razorleaf is terrible with respect to other projectiles and other characters' abilities to get around it. For ivysaur its not that bad, but then again ivysaur is such a bad character that it looks good when compared with the other options that it has. so yeah it has its uses, but that by no means makes it a good move in general

 

[Ryusuta]

There are a lot of projectiles that are worse than Razor Leaf. I'd say average at best, mediocre at worst.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I like Razor Leaf because it travels at such a weird speed where you walk behind it and grab them and LOL.
Or when they are between you and the edge on the ground, use razor leaf, they roll at you, Fsmash :D

I hereby note that I am most likely going to main PT.
I'll see what I can do with vids.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I hereby note that I am most likely going to main PT.
I'll see what I can do with vids.

Good on you. He's not particularly popular, so we need all the new information and representation we can get.

 

[Bomber7]

Good on you. He's not particularly popular, so we need all the new information and representation we can get.

Define new information. As far as as can tell, looks like we have reached a limit. I don't think there is anything new that could possibly come up as far as fighting techs go.

Though if the project for this boards is making videos to make PT looks appealing fine by me, I'm for it.... I just gotta find myself some recording equipment and get myself some people to play.

Hmm maybe I can find some old matches on my Wii I have recorded, I don't think I have enough, plus if I did, it would be webcam quality ....eeeehhhhk -_-

I'll see what I can do, I haven't had anything recorded thus far of my PT carrier to show off, I'll see what I can pull up.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Define new information. As far as as can tell, looks like we have reached a limit. I don't think there is anything new that could possibly come up as far as fighting techs go.

Different playstyles lend to the idea of new uses for moves, and help the metagame grow.

I think there's a lot to learn for Pokèmon Trainer still.

The day I feel that his metagame has come to a standstill is the day I pick up another character. It's no fun playing if you're not learning anything.

 

[Bomber7]

Different playstyles lend to the idea of new uses for moves, and help the metagame grow.

I think there's a lot to learn for Pokèmon Trainer still.

The day I feel that his metagame has come to a standstill is the day I pick up another character. It's no fun playing if you're not learning anything.

Even though this belongs in the water gun discussion I'm going to say it anyway in response to Reflex.

This past weekend I screwed around with my friend with water gun. We went to Yoshi's and I for the most part stood there and spammed water gun, I basically practiced spacing and my aim with water gun, for the most part I racked up damage by shield grabbing. Other than that, throughout the whole match, I barely left that spot. It gave me the chance to see water gun in multiple situations. From that example I see your point.

Hmmm, I wonder when the next tournament is or get together -_- I really want to practice PT even if they are all friendlies, as long as they are with someone different.

 

[Zigsta]

No character has reached their limit, Bomber. It took years for some characters' ATs to be discovered in Melee.

 

[Bomber7]

Well I guess we have one solution to finding new tricks, and it's the oldest trick in the book and it only takes two words......


BUTTON MASHING!

>=D

Though as far as we could go, a razor leaf glide would be pretty nice if possible.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Pokémon Trainer isn't really gonna find (m)any useful tricks/glitches that will help him. Instead you have to make new tactics, more information about other character, mixups, get people to switch Pokémon a lot more often and not single out Pokémon.

I feel Pokémon Trainer is not nearly coming to halt in the metagame. It's 3 characters you can learn and play. I find it weak of you to say that PT's metagame is already coming to a halt.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Pokémon Trainer isn't really gonna find (m)any useful tricks/glitches that will help him. Instead you have to make new tactics, more information about other character, mixups, get people to switch Pokémon a lot more often and not single out Pokémon.

We've actually found more than a couple in recent times, the biggest being the Zero Switch/Baton Pass/Ivysaur Canceling/whatever you will. There are a neat amount of them.

Either way, you're right about it mostly extending to new tactics.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I wasn't really talking about fast switching, but actually switching after you knock opponents away or something <_<. I've see enough vids of PT who only switched when they died or maybe once in a game.
I usually go like this: I do my thing with Squirtle, F-air, B-air, U-tilt, LOL at them, D-throw at around 80%. Then I switch to Ivysaur and camp, rack damage and as soon as I kill, switch to Charizard and use him untill the end of my stock, while shieldgrabbing and rocksmashing all day. Then when I die I repeat the process. :bigthumbu:

P.S. Do PT boards have a special Pokémon at the end of their posts O_o.

 

[Bomber7]

Hey will someone try this for me, if it hasn't already been tried?

Lately I have been experimenting with Squirtle's Dair to ledge guard, I usually Di to where my opponent shoots outward, now that I thought of it, will someone go to FD and attempt a wall spike with it? Just DI to where the opponent goes slamming into the wall under FD and see if it will result in a spike. In my head currently it seems possible but I don't have my Wii hooked up and I'm too lazy to hook it up anytime soon, plus my doors in my room(3) are being replaced so I can;t go in there.

please and thank you.

 

[Miles.]

Pokémon Trainer isn't really gonna find (m)any useful tricks/glitches that will help him. Instead you have to make new tactics, more information about other character, mixups, get people to switch Pokémon a lot more often and not single out Pokémon.

I feel Pokémon Trainer is not nearly coming to halt in the metagame. It's 3 characters you can learn and play. I find it weak of you to say that PT's metagame is already coming to a halt.

I have 2 ATs that I will release soon as my comps fixed.

 

[Bomber7]

We've actually found more than a couple in recent times, the biggest being the Zero Switch/Baton Pass/Ivysaur Canceling/whatever you will. There are a neat amount of them.

When I first saw that, my first thoughts were, "When would I ever get to use this?" The stages that you can use it on I rarely play in tournaments, so for me it's close to useless. Though that is as far as tournament playing goes.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

When I first saw that, my first thoughts were, "When would I ever get to use this?" The stages that you can use it on I rarely play in tournaments, so for me it's close to useless. Though that is as far as tournament playing goes.

Smashville is a perfectly viable stage, and it's a neutral, too; that in itself makes it nice. It limits the opponent's counterpicking options, as well, since there are stages that could give you a boost in that.

 

[Zigsta]

When I first saw that, my first thoughts were, "When would I ever get to use this?" The stages that you can use it on I rarely play in tournaments, so for me it's close to useless. Though that is as far as tournament playing goes.

Just practice using the zero switch in friendlies. Yesterday I used it against Cows's Pikachu: Ivysaur baired, ran away, zero switch to Rock Smashing Charizard for the win.

Holy schnikes this AT is awesome.

 

[Steeler]

don't pick smashville against MK though. :]

 

[Zigsta]

Has anyone tried used Bullet Seed offstage before? If you use it below or around the level of the edge, you'll likely won't have time to recover, but it seems like jumping into it could halt an opponent's movement.

Just curious to hear if anyone's attempted this.

 

[Steeler]

i attempted it like once

they aren't going to be dragged down with you so you shouldn't be killing anyone with that.

flamethrower's better for that purpose. very very slightly better lol.

 

[Kage Me]

Only if my opponent is edgehogging and I'm just that slight bit below f-air range. Still died, but so did the opponent. He paniced (sp?).

 

[T-block]

I've gotten Bullet Seed KOs on Pit before xP

Momentum shift (or w/e it's called) Bullet Seed might be somewhat useful if you could pull it off ._.

 

[Racuza]

What I like to do which can build some serious percentage especially on big characters is

Razor Leaf into a dashing Bullet Seed. It'll bump them into the air and, for me, it deals around 40 - 60 damage in seconds. Of course, it doesn't always work. Has anyone else tried this?

 

[SuSa]

I've gotten Bullet Seed KOs on Pit before xP

Momentum shift (or w/e it's called) Bullet Seed might be somewhat useful if you could pull it off ._.

B-reversal, really easy to do. I do that often to Pit if I'm a stock ahead and want to taunt them.

/aka friendlies

What I like to do which can build some serious percentage especially on big characters is

Razor Leaf into a dashing Bullet Seed. It'll bump them into the air and, for me, it deals around 40 - 60 damage in seconds. Of course, it doesn't always work. Has anyone else tried this?

I prefer grabbing or dash attack, I've gotten this to work here or there the spacing needs to be good however.

(Am I the only one who uses Ivysaur Canceling to cancel Charizard?)

 

[Vermy]

I'd cancel a fresh Zard out vs fox, falco, kirby, mk and snake. They do horrible things to him. =(

 

[Ryusuta]

I'd cancel a fresh Zard out vs fox,

Fox is okay against Charizard at low damages, but he's hardly a counter character to be avoided.

falco,

You might as well leave Charizard in on this fight. All three Pokemon can be CGed-to-spike and are at a major disadvantage in this fight, so unless you REALLY count on Squirtle being able to stay out of Falco's grip, Charizard is your gimping powerhouse for this match.

kirby,

See Fox.

mk and snake.

Charizard puts up the best fight against BOTH of these characters.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

\

(Am I the only one who uses Ivysaur Canceling to cancel Charizard?)

First everyone calls him a she, and now this?
Stop insulting our dear frogplant. =(

 

[SuSa]

First everyone calls him a she, and now this?
Stop insulting our dear frogplant. =(

I've always thought Ivysaur as girl. First episode I remember seeing an Ivysaur it was a girl IIRC.

Also my Ivysaur was a girl in my Pokemon game.

Also.... it's not an insult. Girl's are under-estimated most of the time. Ivysaur is no exception.

Also people have been calling Zero Lag Cancel that so I figured it'd be a recognized name.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I've always thought Ivysaur as girl. First episode I remember seeing an Ivysaur it was a girl IIRC.

Also my Ivysaur was a girl in my Pokemon game.

Also.... it's not an insult. Girl's are under-estimated most of the time. Ivysaur is no exception.

Also people have been calling Zero Lag Cancel that so I figured it'd be a recognized name.

But it's 87,5 % that he's male.
It's like people are just suggesting that he's girly which actually is an insult for a man/boy. Poor Ivysaur.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Some people think Ivysaur is female because of its japanese voice.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Some people think Ivysaur is female because of its japanese voice.

That's why I refer to it as such.

FUSHIGISOU

 

[Phiddlesticks]

FUSHIGISOU used BURRETTU SEED...u?

(Trainer Tip: Put a "u" at the end of a word to make it rook Japanese instantry)

uguu~

 

[Vermy]

Fox is okay against Charizard at low damages, but he's hardly a counter character to be avoided.



You might as well leave Charizard in on this fight. All three Pokemon can be CGed-to-spike and are at a major disadvantage in this fight, so unless you REALLY count on Squirtle being able to stay out of Falco's grip, Charizard is your gimping powerhouse for this match.



See Fox.



Charizard puts up the best fight against BOTH of these characters.

I said I would switch out a FRESH Zard. at 0% its not exactly the best position to be in. It's also based on my personal preference. My zard just doesnt do well vs falco, fox or kirby at low percents. I get comboed to holy hell. And if i feel more confident with the others, then its better for me to switch him out.

Also, have you not played a decent MK or Snake? Snake gets one Dthrow on Zard and you're in a VERY bad position. Zard's rolls are so slow, he can be tech chased incredibly well. aside from that, snake has the tools to out space him and out camp him, as well as killer stage control.

Metaknight vs Zard. I really dont think i need to explain myself. I think Typh's videos speak for themselves. Squirtle does much MUCH better. If you're going to dismiss my opinion then at least have some data to back it up.

 

[Magik0722]

Reds Ivysuar in the manga is male

 

[kackamee]

^In brawl she's a girl

/perfectlogicpost