Ivysaur Tactical Discussion

[T-block]

I used to call Ivy a girl...then I stopped.

I'm so confused T.T

Retro should make a poll and get the PT boards to vote. Then we stick with that result and correct the **** out of anyone who says otherwise lol

 

[SuSa]

^In brawl she's a girl

/perfectlogicpost

This guy wins the internet.

But uhm... yah..........

Anata wa ogenki desu ka

 

[Zigsta]

I like to think that not all Ivysaur in Brawl are the same gender. Like in Pokemon games, Trainers can catch both males and females. I see Pokemon in Brawl the same way.

 

[MaTA]

hmm not really... in brawl im pretty sure every pokemon look the same (despite the colors) but the difference in being male/female would consist of little things. Like a longer teeth or wiskers....

 

[Steeler]

none of the three pokemon have any gender differences in the real games though

 

[Zigsta]

none of the three pokemon have any gender differences in the real games though

Yep yep, Steeler knows what's up. Out of the three original starters and their respective evolutions, only Venusaur differs between males and females.

 

[SuSa]

none of the three pokemon have any gender differences in the real games though

Only partially true.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

I love Ivysaur's Fair.

 

[Retro Gaming]

There's a reason all of the other threads created to discuss Ivysaur's gender have been closed. That being: it's impossible to prove any sort of conclusion using only Super Smash Bros. Brawl as a source, to the best of my knowledge. I guess if you really wanted to, you could look through the game text (READ: Trophies) and try to figure it out from there. Otherwise, this discussion is mainly speculation based on outside evidence.

There's also the bit about the fact that the answer to this answer isn't really worth anything.

Retro should make a poll and get the PT boards to vote. Then we stick with that result and correct the **** out of anyone who says otherwise lol

I think this would just make more posts on the subject trying to change the ultimatum based on the same "counter-evidence" every time.

At the very least, if you take anything from this post, know that this is an off-topic discussion in this thread.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I still think it's strange to call US Brawl Ivy a she because the japanese voice sounds girly, while the US voice sounds manly as hell. =/

OK now l'll really quit. Someone wants to discuss one of the many other sides of our versitile frog?

 

[Vermy]

i think it comes down to individual trainers ^_^

every ivysaur is unique, ergo yours is whatever gender you claim it is.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

i think it comes down to individual trainers ^_^

every ivysaur is unique, ergo yours is whatever gender you claim it is.

That is it!

Spoiler

But offcourse only when 87,5 % of the trainers claim it's male cause then it fits the gender ratio.

 

[Retro Gaming]

At the very least, if you take anything from this post, know that this is an off-topic discussion in this thread.

No really guys, this wasn't just a suggestion. Stop this discussion right now.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm making my own tier list, and I'm wondering if Ivysaur is better than than Jigglypuff or vice versa or about the same. Ivysaur seems to have a little better bit of a moveset and a bad recovery, Jigglypuff on the other hand, has a good recovery, and a little worse moveset.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I'm making my own tier list, and I'm wondering if Ivysaur is better than than Jigglypuff or vice versa or about the same. Ivysaur seems to have a little better bit of a moveset and a bad recovery, Jigglypuff on the other hand, has a good recovery, and a little worse moveset.

PT in general is better than Jiggs. That's for sure.

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

PokemonMasterIRL uses both PT and Jiggs, so you could ask him.

PT in general, yes, I agree that he's better. Between Ivysaur and Jigglypuff, however, I'm not too sure.

 

[Zigsta]

Has anyone compiled a list of what projectiles can be blocked by Ivysaur's fair and when the attack can block them? I blocked a Samus's projectile the other day, and my bud was really shocked, haha.

 

[Ryusuta]

Maybe Ivysaur can ninja stuff like Yoshi does with his back air/neutral air.

 

[Retro Gaming]

You can cancel Link's arrows with Ivusaur's head during Nair. Bair cancels a lot of stuff, as well.

 

[Ryusuta]

You can cancel Link's arrows with Ivusaur's head during Nair. Bair cancels a lot of stuff, as well.

Whoa, really? I have GOT to try this out. How big of a window is there to do that with neutral air?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Not sure, I just remember I had to use the head. It's probably easier just to use Bair, which I believe cancels out his Boomerang as well.

Speaking of Nair, I think I've clanked with Din's Fire with it before, except I wouldn't recommend trying to do that because Ivysaur is weak to teh PH1R3 and its easier to just airdodge, shield, or spot-dodge. Or, you know. Not get hit.

 

[Zigsta]

Interesting, Retro--I didn't know nair could cancel projectiles as well.

On a side note, has anyone tried using Ivusaur's pivot grab a la Yoshi to approach?

 

[CaliburChamp]

PT in general is better than Jiggs. That's for sure.

I guess Ivysaur and Jigglypuff are both at the same level? Eh, I'm not too sure.

This is what the mid to bottom part of my tier list looks like.

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue) 6.8
Zelda 6.5
Ness 6.5
Lucas 6.4
Shiek 6.2

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic 5.9
Bowser 5.8
Ike 5.7
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average) 5.6
Yoshi 5.4
Mario 5.2
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue) 5.0

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

 

[Retro Gaming]

Interesting, Retro--I didn't know nair could cancel projectiles as well.

On a side note, has anyone tried using Ivusaur's pivot grab a la Yoshi to approach?

Could you explain exactly what you mean by that? I'm not keen on how Yoshi uses it to approach.

What I do do with pivot grabs is if I'm at about mid-range (Ftilt/Bair range) and I anticipate that the opponent is about to try to come at me during the opening of Bair or something, I'll move away from the slightly and pivot grab. This is typically how I get a grab.

Also, if you show your opponent that Ivysaur's dash attack is capable of killing, the next time you just run at them, keep going past them and pivot grab. That one is more risky but does work out for me sometimes.

In regards to CaliburChamp's tier list: Don't respond to it unless you want to talk about Ivysaur.

 

[T-block]

Yoshi's use it to approach? o.o The only Yoshi I've played uses it with eggs as part of his brickwall... I always thought pivot grabs were more of a thing to cover your retreat, unless as Retro said you run past them.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yoshi doesn't approach with the pivot grab, at all. And even if he did, Ivysaur couldn't possibly emulate it, since his pivot range is about half of Yoshi's (maybe less).

 

[Zigsta]

What I mean by approaching with pivots a la Yoshi is running away from the enemy and quickly using a pivot grab while standing still to catch an opponent off-guard. Most really good Yoshi mains abuse this. So yeah, I meant approach as a tactic, not literally approaching, if that makes sense. Yoshis use this to cover a retreat, like t-block said, but plenty Yoshi mains use this tactic so much it's practically their main method of dealing with their enemies. I know Ivysaur's pivot grab isn't as large as Yoshi's, but it seems like it could be put to use in the same way to an extent. I personally can't pivot to save my life right now. XD I'm thinking about taking tap jump off 'cuz I keep jumping instead of turning around and grabbing.

 

[Ryusuta]

Ivysaur's pivot is occasionally good, but it has an extremely small range (I think Squirtle's grab has more range than Ivy's pivot). It can be helpful if you're being pressured and are trying to move away, but I wouldn't count on it.

The absolute easiest way to pivot grab is to press the opposite direction of your grab, then press Z and C-stick in the direction of your grab. For instance to do a right-facing pivot, press left, then Z and C-right.

 

[Retro Gaming]

running away from the enemy and quickly using a pivot grab while standing still to catch an opponent off-guard. Most really good Yoshi mains abuse this.

Yes, I do this. You can't do it all the time though because Ivysaur's pivot isn't Yoshi's or Olimar's. =(

The absolute easiest way to pivot grab is to press the opposite direction of your grab, then press Z and C-stick in the direction of your grab. For instance to do a right-facing pivot, press left, then Z and C-right.

Do this, Zigsta. I have the worst technical skill of all the PT players and I can do it at will with this.

 

[Zigsta]

Tight, Retro--I really haven't watched many Ivysaur videos, so I was hoping there was someone out there who used it, haha. I've never heard of using the c-stick, but I'll definitely try it out. My technical skills aren't doing so hot since I have no Wii to practice on. XD

 

[Ryusuta]

It's a real cinch to do, Zigsta. You won't have any trouble picking it up.

 

[Sulfur]

heh I just look at this tonight and it's already really easy for me. Good stuff.

 

[T-block]

wait what?

for a right-facing pivot grab isn't it just [right on the control stick] + z? why are we using the c-stick

 

[Ryusuta]

Because it forces the pivot animation over the turnaround one. Trust me on this one. I'm a Yoshi player... I know pivot grabs.

 

[T-block]

oh i see...so you can actually pivot grab out of the standing animation? i've only ever used it out of a dash.

 

[Retro Gaming]

To do a pivot grab to the right with this method, you dash to left then press the C-stick toward the right + Z at the same time. This makes you pivot grab toward the right.

Because of how I input Hydroplaning, I accidently discovered that if you JC pivot grab this way with Ivysaur (and probably every character) you can do a pivot grab without moving. I hadn't figured out another way to do it, so...

 

[T-block]

I just don't understand why you need the c-stick then... dash to the left and control stick to the right + Z at the same time accomplishes the same thing, doesn't it? Seems easier than the c-stick method too.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Try them both. I prefer the C-stick method because if you mess up the control-stick only method then you end up doing a turn around in the middle of your dash. And that used to happen to me a lot.

In addition, the pivot grab tends to "come out sooner" (Less dashing before the grab) when I use the C-stick method. But that's just for me. If you prefer single stick just go with that.

 

[hippiedude92]

Don't listen to Retro, he didn't know how to dash dance at all nor how to full hop as an option. And he's ivy is like massive lol.


<3PapaJyarra<3

 

[Zigsta]

I tried the c-pivot like five times in a friendly and three of them worked--this method is definitely easier for me.