Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[EnIgma24]

When i saw the video for the first time i noticed that lucina's nair landing lag is cancelled or really short (2:00 in the video) could this be an l cancel, a really short landing lag or just an auto cancel? of course i may be wrong but i wanted to know people opinions about that from her;

 

[staindgrey]

Hey... I think some fandom may be clouding your judgment. Their personalities may be a little bit different, or a lot in fact, but in the grand scheme of Nintendo they have quite a good deal that is pretty similar. Visually, factually, and potentially in terms of playstyle. Far more so than, say, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. Probably even more than Falco and Fox. Yet, look at Ness and Lucas, they probably are the best example in this specific scenario. They look similar, act far differently, yet could still be clones.

I know that the avatar choice would lead you to believe that I was saying that out of fandom, but that's not the case. In the games in which Peach and Daisy have starred, both separately and apart, they have been increasingly differentiated, not only in personality, but in abilities and powers. Daisy and Peach aren't even in the same class in the Mario sports titles, and Daisy's strength and flower-themed moves separate her from Peach more in those games than even Mario and Luigi.

Not saying they COULD NOT be clones, but if they were, Peach would have to be modified for that to even happen, as Daisy neither floats nor pulls turnips (or anything) from the ground. It would be like if Falcon had a racecar-driving move, and Ganon kept it while being cloned. That makes no sense. So in the case of the person I quoted using Daisy as an example to illustrate his point, yeah. Pretty bad example.

I mean, even Fox and Falco have more in common, according to the canon available in games. Their Smash Bros. moveset is entirely made up without much reference to their appearance in-game, since they're always in a cockpit. The only way they differentiate, besides personality and looks, is how the developers felt like differentiating them. It's entirely superficial.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I thought this is actually a very interesting thing.
It could be that:

1) Characters' aerials overall have less lag, a significant change to the entire roster that they implemented since the E3 or best buy build
2) Or she just did it high enough so that when she landed she had no lag
3) Or since she doesn't have a tipper, it would mean that her style wouldn't need to worry about where her opponent is hit nearly as much as Marth, who wants to keep them at a distance. Her style could be quicker and more aggressive while Marth focuses more on spacing and punishing in order to get those strong tipper hits in. And so she may indeed be faster than Marth (or at least in the air)

 

[EnIgma24]

If general mechanics reduces that much landing lag a lot of charcater could be more viable than what we thought it could be a good things for overall quick character like lucina. For the second option i can't be sure because i heard auto cancelling permit to have a normal landing while in the video the landing animation is interrupted clearly, correct me if i'm wrong of course
I deduce that having a balanced blade permit a more aggressive playstyle too and much better than roy 's since even the tip of her sword should have correct knockback and hitstun unlike our boy in melee.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

It seemed like it was landing lag, but sped up. Could have been auto cancelled, could have been that they're reducing landing lag, could have been that she just has less landing lag on moves than Marth.

All three are good

 

[Jiggly]

This is a curious spectacle, due to many people who played smash on the wii u at E3 to say that there is bad aerial lag. (although that was early development, so it may have been changed) Maybe it auto-cancels after a short hop? idk, this is questionable...

 

[CardiganBoy]

I dunno if this has been mentioned before but, Lucina's sword is shorter in gameplay than in her artwork, kinda interesting.
Note the handle:

 

[alex6309]

She likes it long

 

[Malkior7]

if it is it isn't longer by much

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

The blade is the same length (since it's the same blade) but her hilt is longer (and bigger). Now, proceed to make your jokes.

 

[Sol0ke]

Ike was a clone?

 

[Banjodorf]

Ike was a clone?

This. Although I think it was just in response to their being any Marth clones in the game period. If there had been one in Brawl, one would've been enough.

 

[SethTheMage]

Another thing to note is that if you compare Lucina's landing lag at the beginning of her gameplay and when she lands next to Robin at the end of the trailer to the landing lag after her Nair, there is definitely a difference. I think that is an L-Cancel, which is curious, since people who played the demo at E3 said that you can't L-Cancel.

 

[Jiggly]

Another thing to note is that if you compare Lucina's landing lag at the beginning of her gameplay and when she lands next to Robin at the end of the trailer to the landing lag after her Nair, there is definitely a difference. I think that is an L-Cancel, which is curious, since people who played the demo at E3 said that you can't L-Cancel.

But E3 was early development, it may have been changed. But would sora really put an L-cancel in the trailer? I'm pretty sure it is an auto-cancel

 

[SethTheMage]

But E3 was early development, it may have been changed. But would sora really put an L-cancel in the trailer? I'm pretty sure it is an auto-cancel

I don't think it's an auto-cancel. At about 1:49 in the trailer, Robin lands after using his Fair with the Levin Sword, and he doesn't cancel out of the landing lag. That, combined with the fact that Lucina has a noticeable reduce in lag after she uses her Nair, makes me think it's an L-Cancel. But, we won't know for sure until the game releases.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Another thing to note is that if you compare Lucina's landing lag at the beginning of her gameplay and when she lands next to Robin at the end of the trailer to the landing lag after her Nair, there is definitely a difference. I think that is an L-Cancel, which is curious, since people who played the demo at E3 said that you can't L-Cancel.

If general mechanics reduces that much landing lag a lot of charcater could be more viable than what we thought it could be a good things for overall quick character like lucina. For the second option i can't be sure because i heard auto cancelling permit to have a normal landing while in the video the landing animation is interrupted clearly, correct me if i'm wrong of course
I deduce that having a balanced blade permit a more aggressive playstyle too and much better than roy 's since even the tip of her sword should have correct knockback and hitstun unlike our boy in melee.

Wow, interesting observation. It definitely looks like her landing lag is being cut, and not just being brief. Or the animation's just not polished yet or she's just a really fast character with litle lag.

SethTheMage, you mentioned that there's a difference? I don't see which scenes you're comparing. When she jumps in and says "I'll fight at your side" I think that's just a jump, because when she lands after her nair she puts her hand on the ground and then stands up. When she jumps in (beginning of her gameplay) it looks different; her hand isn't as close to the ground and her sword is still pointed up but when she lands after her nair her sword is pointed down.

 

[Big-Cat]

It may be that the cooldown is reduced as when she does NAir, she completed the entire attack. Landing lag isn't affected if you complete the animation.

 

[EnIgma24]

It may be that the cooldown is reduced as when she does NAir, she completed the entire attack. Landing lag isn't affected if you complete the animation.

As people said earlier if it was an auto cancel wich is what you mean the animation wouldn't be cut like that but would have a normal landing animation. It would be definitely weird if that case was specific with nair maybe nintendo chàge their mind after sponsoring EVO 2014 about competitive play, and reggie saying no Johns definitely prove that they saw The Smash Brothers documentary so thinking about l canceling, z canceling or eventualy a auto l/z cancel would not be pointless in my opinion.
In either ways if the game is sped up that way as a simple change of mechanic or with a say "advanced tech" it will changea lot of things about the current theory of smash 4 match ups.

 

[Reila]

I was talking about the idea of having Roy in Sm4sh. One Marth clone (Lucina) is enough. Leave Roy in Melee, he has no business in Sm4sh.

 

[SethTheMage]

Wow, interesting observation. It definitely looks like her landing lag is being cut, and not just being brief. Or the animation's just not polished yet or she's just a really fast character with litle lag.

SethTheMage, you mentioned that there's a difference? I don't see which scenes you're comparing. When she jumps in and says "I'll fight at your side" I think that's just a jump, because when she lands after her nair she puts her hand on the ground and then stands up. When she jumps in (beginning of her gameplay) it looks different; her hand isn't as close to the ground and her sword is still pointed up but when she lands after her nair her sword is pointed down.

Yeah. I see that now; she is just jumping in the instances I was trying to compare. However, as I said in my other post, Robin uses a Fair at 1:49, and his landing lag doesn't look like it's cut like when Lucina uses the Nair, so it can't be the result of a general landing lag reduction or an auto-cancel. Maybe it's just an unpolished animation, like you said. But, I think it's an L-Cancel. We won't know for certain until the game releases, though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think it's very safe to say L-Canceling isn't back. Some attacks in the demo would auto-cancel, like Bowser's F-Air, it's probably the exact same thing we're seeing here, Lucina herself might not have much landing lag in general.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Chrom and Roy as Marth clones please

 

[Xafer2468]

One way Marth differs from all his previous incarnations in smash4 is the obscenely high knock back on his grabs and lack of chaingrabs. Because of this I'm hoping that Lucina will inherit Marth's melee/brawl grabs. From what i've seen though, it appears this game is anti-chaingrab, so hopefully her grabs have much less knockback and can be easily combo'd into other things.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

It's definitely not an auto-cancel, as Lucina visibly goes into nair's landing animation, rather than a regular landing animation.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I think she'll be a clone for the most part (moves) but like falco in melee she'll have different attributes like being faster, having a higher jump, being lighter and having a better air game since marth's has been slightly nerfed

 

[Aninymouse]

I don't think it's an auto-cancel. At about 1:49 in the trailer, Robin lands after using his Fair with the Levin Sword, and he doesn't cancel out of the landing lag. That, combined with the fact that Lucina has a noticeable reduce in lag after she uses her Nair, makes me think it's an L-Cancel. But, we won't know for sure until the game releases.

I don't think you can compare landing lag from Robin and Lucina, two different characters, and then declare that universal L-cancelling is back or not.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

The reasons why I disliked the Melee cloning was because they composed about a quarter of a roster that wasn't big to begin with, with most being characters that had no business being in over some of the egregious snubs, and half of them just being inferior/superior versions of existing characters, thus leaving the roster feeling very shallow, especially compared to Brawl's roster. With how massive Smash 4's roster is shaping up (50+ is virtually guaranteed now), and all the very unique characters we have been given already, I would be fine with a few bonus clones being added, as long as they are sensible, from a series that got a unique newcomer, and not something like Dr. Mario or Pichu (or not Dark Pit, because **** those lame and overdoned Dark 'protagonist' characters). As such, I approve of Lucina being in as a clone.

 

[Aninymouse]

Proven by Pic of the Day, but I think this will make her purely worse than Marth overall. The tipper has always been the core of what makes Marth so strong.

The only way I could see her maybe being equally good is if her Dair is always a spike. That could make her a really deadly user of the Ken combo, even if she's a bit weaker in terms of overall damage.

I don't see why her Dair wouldn't always be a spike.

They changed Marth's Dair in the demo. Now, Marth's tipper doesn't spike, but the rest of the blade does. That could change from the demo build, but that's how it worked, nonetheless.

 

[KRBAY]

Nametags, I guess.

 

[HugoBoss]

Smashboards Status

June 2013~July 14th 2014-Sakurai's critique of newcomers depends on how unique they are. Each newcomer must bring something new to Smash. Maybe some more wanted newcomers may not make the cut, but the current roster provides this goal of creativity. The "Gematsu" leak is true to his word. Shulk and Chorus Kids and Chrom are next as they all could add a new way to play in Smash Bros. We should embrace the diverse roster of newcomers instead of asking for generic newcomers like(insert popular wanted newcomer or Mewtwo). DLC is always an option. Let's pay respect to Sakurai's ideas. Remember, quality over quantity.

July 15th 2014~Today-Who ever said Sakurai was all about diversity and creativity? forget that, it's about the fans!The more newcomers, the better! Even if they are full on Melee clones, at least we get more characters! If it is justified in the series then it is justified for a newcomer from that series to be a clone in Smash Bros, a series that loosely follows canon! At least we still got a newcomer, rather than none! Think of it as a bonus! We should all be considerate of time constraints and the cost of unique characters, so flooding the roster with dozens of clones is perfectly fine. Forget Sakurai, it's all about the fanservice! Remember, quantity over quality.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Smashboards Status

June 2013~July 14th 2014-Sakurai's critique of newcomers depends on how unique they are. Each newcomer must bring something new to Smash. Maybe some more wanted newcomers may not make the cut, but the current roster provides this goal of creativity. The "Gematsu" leak is true to his word. Shulk and Chorus Kids and Chrom are next as they all could add a new way to play in Smash Bros. We should embrace the diverse roster of newcomers instead of asking for generic newcomers like(insert popular wanted newcomer or Mewtwo). DLC is always an option. Let's pay respect to Sakurai's ideas. Remember, quality over quantity.

July 15th 2014~Today-Who ever said Sakurai was all about diversity and creativity? forget that, it's about the fans!The more newcomers, the better! Even if they are full on Melee clones, at least we get more characters! If it is justified in the series then it is justified for a newcomer from that series to be a clone in Smash Bros, a series that loosely follows canon! At least we still got a newcomer, rather than none! Think of it as a bonus! We should all be considerate of time constraints and the cost of unique characters, so flooding the roster with dozens of clones is perfectly fine. Forget Sakurai, it's all about the fanservice! Remember, quantity over quality.

So because we have one confirmed clone newcomer, that means the roster is going to have "dozens" of clones. Gotcha.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If her father got in he'd be a marth clone

and since she fights like her father

She's also a marth clone

 

[Terotrous]

I don't see why her Dair wouldn't always be a spike.

Because Sakurai?

Anyway, if she does get it, she'll at least be decent. Marth might still be better, but a reliable spike and decent range should be enough for at least mid tier.

 

[HugoBoss]

So because we have one confirmed clone newcomer, that means the roster is going to have "dozens" of clones. Gotcha.

Taking a joke too seriously is unhealthy. For the record, I never actually stated that I believe that clone newcomer=many clones, but it is a possibility. Jokes aside, how come the one sentence that did not pertain to this forum or the gist of my post(that was in all honesty, satire of current trends poking fun at the shifting opinions)and was an hyperbole and also sarcastic, motivate you to reply? It didn't accomplish anything, or discredit anything I posted, which I assume was your motive? It just shows you did not get the joke...

Note to self: Make it very obvious when I'm serious or sarcastic.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Taking a joke too seriously is unhealthy. For the record, I never actually stated that I believe that clone newcomer=many clones, but it is a possibility. Jokes aside, how come the one sentence that did not pertain to this forum or the gist of my post(that was in all honesty, satire of current trends poking fun at the shifting opinions)and was an hyperbole and also sarcastic, motivate you to reply? It didn't accomplish anything, or discredit anything I posted, which I assume was your motive? It just shows you did not get the joke...

Note to self: Make it very obvious when I'm serious or sarcastic.

I'm sorry. I've just dealt with anti-clone bulls*** for so long, and tbh your "sarcastic" post doesn't seem that different from the mindset of some actual anti-clone people (supporters? Detractors? Not sure what to call them) I've run across.

Protip: include more and in your posts. That usually sends the message loud and clear.

 

[Lugubrious]

 

[Kawaii Jesus]

You'll only have problems if you can't tell the difference between Kirby and Jigglypuff.

 

[Azureflames]

From the sounds of it, Marth might be a little better if you can space well (which will be hard without Wavedashing or dash-dancing), but i think that Lucina might actually have more success if she has equal damage throughout the blade (or at least more consistant success). We wont really know until the game comes out though *shrug*

 

[Shorts]

Here we go.



Set: http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y

Seems like Lucina prefers the whole sword. She isn't a fan of just the tip. huehuehuehuehue

So you're implying Marth likes just the tip?

 

[Reginleif]

I actually like the tipper mechanic. It's so strong when used correctly. But Lucina will serve in other areas such as being more mobile.