Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[MattTheGameFreak]

If someone could decipher her moves from this scan from Famistu, I think it'd go a long way to making the community happy. To me, it looks like she does indeed have different moves from Marth.

Her neautral attack for instance seems similar to Ike's forward tilt. Also... I don't see a poking move anywhere... Which makes sense if you watch Lucina's fight style in Awakening and the Smash intro. She is not anywhere near as precise/well trained as Marth, and hence goes a lot more with swipes, which explains why she does not have a sweet-spot.

Since I cannot read the text, I've handed it you guys to figure out.

 

[Shun_one]

For anyone curious, her Specials share the same name as Marth's. I can't read the names for her normals (if they are listed. Falcon's normals are named though, so I assume so)

N-Special: Shield Breaker
S-Special: Dancing Blade (Marvelous Combination in JP)
U-Special: Dolphin Slash
D-Special: Counter

From the general thread

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

(I originally posted this in a thread already made, but I'm betting no one will pay much mind to it there.... ) So... If someone could decipher her moves from this Famistu scan, I think it'd go a long way to making the community happy. To me, it looks like she does indeed have different moves from Marth.

Her neautral attack for instance seems similar to Ike's forward tilt. Also... I don't see a poking move anywhere... Which makes sense if you watch Lucina's fight style in Awakening and the Smash intro. She is not anywhere near as precise/well trained as Marth, and hence goes a lot more with swipes, which explains why she does not have a sweet-spot.

I can't be for sure though, since I cannot read the text, so I've handed it you guys to figure out.

 

[L9999]

I see Marth's Up and Side Smash there. And Fox got stunned in the Shield Breaker pic.

 

[Hero of the Winds]

I wish I knew Japanese (ι´Д｀)ﾉ

 

[Shun_one]

Her specials have the exact same names as Marth's.

 

[SethTheMage]

I think it's very safe to say L-Canceling isn't back. Some attacks in the demo would auto-cancel, like Bowser's F-Air, it's probably the exact same thing we're seeing here, Lucina herself might not have much landing lag in general.

OK. I didn't play the demo or watch the gameplay closely, so I didn't know about this. That's probably what happened in this case. Sorry for all of the fuss, guys.

 

[Aogami]

Moves listed are:

NB: Shield Breaker.
UB: Dolphin Slash.
SB: Marvelous Combination.
DB: Counter.

In short the same as Marth's but I'm not sure if I'm mistaken however it looks like her Shield Breaker is performed a bit differently than Marth's.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

It looks like her shield breaker is a swipe, instead of a stab... One that possibly starts slightly behind her?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

The only true difference is that her sword has no tipper. Basically meaning hitting at the tip of the sword will do the same damage as the base of the sword, but the sword's damage is more balanced out.

I personally think it's a nerf for her. Marth's tipper is awesome

 

[DrRiceBoy]

I heard someone else say that she can put on or take off her mask by doing a taunt. Anybody here that knows Japanese that can confirm this?

 

[Shun_one]

I heard someone else say that she can put on or take off her mask by doing a taunt. Anybody here that knows Japanese that can confirm this?

This is true. You can start the match wearing her mask or use a taunt to put it on and take it off.

EDIT: Or at least it appears to be the case. It's never explicitly stated, but it is said that she "wears her mask during her intro and for one of her taunts". The screen of her standing next to Kirby wearing it is pretty indicative too.

 

[Chauzu]

If someone can find one with a bit higher resolution (so you can read the smaller text) I'll share what I can find.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

in either case, she still has the same animations, and moveset as marth.
to me even a difference of properties is not enough to warrant lucina a unique character. all of those could be changed due to custom moves.

A new mechanic like the tipper not being present wouldn't be changed using custom moves. It's a pivotal component of their playstyle and has nothing to do with special moves.

 

[HugoBoss]

I'm sorry. I've just dealt with anti-clone bulls*** for so long, and tbh your "sarcastic" post doesn't seem that different from the mindset of some actual anti-clone people (supporters? Detractors? Not sure what to call them) I've run across.

Protip: include more and in your posts. That usually sends the message loud and clear.

To be honest I'm as guilty as anyone

 

[Fastblade5035]

She'll probably be a mix of Melee and Brawl clones.

Looking at those new scans, she shares Marth's specials and smashes, but visually, she poses differently. So, not 100% like Falco in Melee, for example. He and Fox's smashes looked exactly the same, and Lucina's do at least vary in appearance from Marth.

I'm satisfied.

 

[JaidynReiman]

According to what I read, Lucina was planned as a skin of Marth, but she did have some different characteristics so she was made a separate character.

The blurb about how Lucina came to be is basically "Originally Lucina was a Marth color variation because they're related characters. The have different names and voices but play the same, and would receive treatment similar to male/female WFT, Villager and Robin. However, while Lucina's fighting style is the same, she has different characteristics. Because there's only a small difference, she would be a convenient additional character. This made her a lucky newcomer pick."

I found this on a different forum.

 

[Ragna22]

This is true. You can start the match wearing her mask or use a taunt to put it on and take it off.

That sounds awesome. I wonder if it has the Vega effect where her defense increases with the mask on but can fall off if she gets hit enough times.

 

[CardiganBoy]

If someone can find one with a bit higher resolution (so you can read the smaller text) I'll share what I can find.

There you go:

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I don't see any move here that is different than Marth's. Her neutral special seems like stabbing shiled breaker, it's just that the stream of light from the sword is in front of her for some reason. I really don't think that's a swipe.

 

[Turokman5896]

According to what I read, Lucina was planned as a skin of Marth, but she did have some different characteristics so she was made a separate character.




I found this on a different forum.

This ^^
Lucina is likely nearly identical since she may have been planned as a skin, but the slight difference meant she was treated as a unique character. That said, I'm not sure if that is mistranslation or not.

 

[JaidynReiman]

See, I don't really see the difference personally. Either Lucina is a skin of Marth on the same slot, or Lucina gets a separate slot added for her, doesn't change much. The only difference is its easier to access her. I think we can officially debunk Marth getting a skin, though, because Lucina was going to be a skin of Marth.

EDIT: Oh, and I like the fact that Lucina can take off her mask and put it back on. Its also hilarious how Kirby's Lucina hat is Lucina's mask.

 

[Turokman5896]

Ignore this sorry.

 

[JaidynReiman]

She is a desperate character

Desparate? No, she's not, she was a skin Sakurai decided would be best suited to being a separate character.

 

[Turokman5896]

Desparate? No, she's not, she was a skin Sakurai decided would be best suited to being a separate character.

Wtf? I don't remember making this post at all! I think I meant to say something else, and will edit it

 

[Fastblade5035]

At the very least, her side smash and Shield Breaker look visually different from Marth's, so she's not as bad a clone as the Melee clones.

 

[Zeallyx]

Yes.

Minus the lack of tippers.

 

[Morbi]

It depends on your definition of "complete clone." However, I do not believe that any character in Smash is a complete clone of the other.

 

[Novice_Brave]

By no means am I "for" Lucina being a clone either - I think that they could have done more to give her an original moveset - however, it does appear we already know of at least a few differences between the two beyond the lack of the tipper, so I think that once we get our hands on her we'll be (at least mostly) satisfied with the differences between the two.

While I don't think it was necessary, it does make sense that she'd be a Marth clone when you factor in her story, class, and fighting style in Awakening. It is also admittedly a lot more difficult to think up really unique movesets for swordfighters, especially when they use the same style and type of sword. They could have given her a unique moveset, but chances are she'd still end up playing a lot like Marth regardless. There's only so much you can do when your character doesn't have access to magic, a unique weapon, God(dess)ly powers, a partner fighter, or the tons and tons of different moves in Pokemon, etc. etc.

 

[extremechiton]

heres my criteria for a clone:

same moveset:

same animations



link and toon link are clones: base stats are different but they both function the same

melee fox and falco are clones

ness and lucas: while a majority of thier moves are vastly different, thier specials are the same, just with different effects, hence they can be considered semi-clones.

brawl fox falco wolf: a lot of standard attacks are different since the change from melee to brawl, and the addition of wolf with his own standards, yet all specials are pretty much the same. semi-clones

falcon and ganon: definitly clones, base stats are different but moveset-wise, same

mario and luigi: they share a few moves, could be considered semi clones, and base stats are also different.
marth and lucina: share identical moveset, animations and even some idle animations. lucina is marth without a tipper. base stats also differ, but lucina could easily have just been a palate swap for marth.

*base stats include weight, jump height, falling speed, size, and any other physical property of that character.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I think the reach of her sword is longer than marth. It looks like she's holding the sword further away from her body than marth does. Could easily just be a mistake on my part though.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

I hope her hit-boxes are at least different.

Let me point this out... The screen where she is hitting Link is visually different from Lucina hitting Fox. An analog symbol is on the Fox screen, and given that all of her specials have an analog symbol, I will concede that it is her shield breaker. Her screen stabbing Link, however, reminds me of Roy's Project M stab tilt, or it could be just part of her dash dance...

 

[Sinister Slush]

"Let's start with Lucina. She has the exact same set of special moves that Marth does, but like the game's director Masahiro Sakurai explained, the main difference between Lucina and Marth is that the former's moves will do the same damage regardless of which part of her blade hits, whereas Marth's attacks will only do maximum damage if the tip of his blade brushes the opponent.

One very important detail that both the character reveal trailer and Sakurai left out, however, is that you can actually start a match as Lucina with her mask on. In fact, Lucina has a taunt that lets her put on or remove the mask, in a similar fashion to Guile's "sunglasses" taunt in Ultra Street Fighter 4."

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I hope her hit-boxes are at least different.

Let me point this out... The screen where she is hitting Link is visually different from Lucina hitting Fox. An analog symbol is on the Fox screen, and given that all of her specials have an analog symbol, I will concede that it is her shield breaker. Her screen stabbing Link, however, reminds me of Roy's Project M stab tilt, or it could be just part of her dash dance...

That's the down version of her dancing blade. Her sword has a green streak.

That pic, along with the pics of her hitting Ike and samus all show off the different directional versions of dancing blade.

These all show off her specials except for maybe the pic with the red border. That seems to be the ending of her side smash hitbox.

The nice thing is, as said above, the magazine says she shares all specials with marth. Maybe she has some A moves that function differently.

 

[DaDavid]

I'm actually happy realizing that she's a Roy-like clone. Maybe she'll feel better than Marth did in the Best Buy demo.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

The new scans from Famitsu seem to suggest she is a clone. So, yeah, I guess that's that. We won't know until the game comes out if she has any really unique moves or attributes beyond her sword balance. I mean, unless Sakurai throws a curve ball.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Is there anything of interest said in the captions, under the pictures, or was what you just typed, it?

"Let's start with Lucina. She has the exact same set of special moves that Marth does, but like the game's director Masahiro Sakurai explained, the main difference between Lucina and Marth is that the former's moves will do the same damage regardless of which part of her blade hits, whereas Marth's attacks will only do maximum damage if the tip of his blade brushes the opponent.

One very important detail that both the character reveal trailer and Sakurai left out, however, is that you can actually start a match as Lucina with her mask on. In fact, Lucina has a taunt that lets her put on or remove the mask, in a similar fashion to Guile's "sunglasses" taunt in Ultra Street Fighter 4."

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I will give it a look later. So much Japanese ><

Maybe I can find that copy of Famitsu at the store today....

 

[TeaTwoTime]

This post here contains a translation of a column by Sakurai:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

"I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical."

This still doesn't clarify much definitively, but I don't think there'll be many noticeable differences in the rest of their kit.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

So the only difference is the sword? Huh...

Well, that makes the transition easier.