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Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

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Hydde

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Falco is the only clone who deserves a spot.

At this stages of the game...including this Lucina girl is almost an insult.

She not only looks exactly like a female Marth,,,, but they let her be a friggin clone with the same animations. I dont care if she hits harder or faster or slower...... using the same animations is an insult!!!!.

I believed that the clone era was long gone.


Sak dropped the ball with this.
 

WwwWario

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Man, even though Lucina is a good addition (and once again adds another female character, which is good for balancing between males and females), I'm just afraid she will take up a spot. I mean, from what we saw in the trailer, she already have 2 special moves that's identical to Marth's. Also the N-Air. I know I know, we've had clones before. But I don't understand WHY. We already now have 3 other unique Fire Emblem characters, all being different. Why do we need a 4th one that is so similar to one of the others? If Lucina had a completely unique moveset, then I'd have no problem at all with her.

What I'm saying is, we already got 3 chars from Fire Emblem, so IF Lucina becomes a clone (which it really looks like she will), then I feel a character spot is wasted, since a completely unique character could have taken her spot instead. Let's just hope for the best. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh or something - I just feel clone characters are wasted spots that other unique ones could take instead.
 

Starbound

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Clones were bound to happen anyways. They're a nice way to buff up the roster to make a lot of fans happy.

To put things in perspective, Sakurai chose between having six clones in Melee or one unique character. Even though the team is a lot bigger this time around, I think it still speaks volumes about how long it takes to develop an original character.
 
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FlynnCL

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This is exactly what I needed. Awesome.

Honestly it doesn't look like she has any noticeable sweetspot on her sword.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Toon Link is the only clone who deserves a spot.

At this stages of the game...including more than 3 clones is almost an insult.

Falco plays almost exactly like a Fox 2.0 who would serve better as an alternate movset,,,, but they let him be a friggin clone with slightly different animations that still function the same. I dont care if she hits harder or faster or slower...... using the same hit boxes is an insult!!!!.

I believed that the clone era was long gone.


Sak dropped the ball with this.
The only true deserving clone character is Toon Link, plain and simple. This is not really who is more deserving between Falco and Lucina when it comes to being a clone character, but whom you dislike more.

I have already proved my points when conversing with Raetah why Lucina got in and should stay in.

Personally, I see Falco as the one who brings the Super Smash Brothers Roster down in terms of Fulfillment.
 
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Blakexd9

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Okay, I am now officially hyped for Lucina. I hope there's more differences, no matter how subtle.
 

Hydde

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Yep I already see her as one.
I cant find the excuses seriously.

I think that including this Lucina girl.... is just causing more questions than answers.

Robin alone would have been excellent...but i find Lucina forced. I mean...yeh she is from a new FE, but as a clone she is totally uneeded.

Yeh, she can end being top tier...but the fact remains that she is a friggin marth clone. It would have been much wiser to simply not include her.
 

BertEast

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http://imgur.com/a/Aad2Y
I noticed that from this album, her nair seems a bit different than Marth's.
From looking at the video, which I'm to lazy to link, it seems to have very little landing lag compared to Marth's, and her nair seems to move in front of her three times total with the slash effect, and also seems to turn her around.
Also, the tip of Falchion isn't emphasized
 

Riskman

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I'm thinking she may not use the whole "Tipper" mechanic for the tip of the sword, or it might be inverted like it was with Roy. I don't think she'll be a complete clone, just similar.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I cant find the excuses seriously.

I think that including this Falco boy.... is just causing more questions than answers.

Fox alone would have been excellent...but i find Falco forced. I mean...yeh he is from the Star Fox games, but as a clone he is totally uneeded.

Yeh, he can end being top tier...but the fact remains that he is a friggin Fox clone. It would have been much wiser to simply not include him.
There you go, except it argues against Falco.
 

Jiggly

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Can you post a Marth pic for comparison? I don't really know what I'm supposed to be looking for or what's missing.
Marth has a mechanic where the tip does more damage than the rest of the sword. In this lucina shot, it shows that the whole blade has an equal damage ratio (or that's what we are guessing based on the animation)
 

Shun_one

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Can you post a Marth pic for comparison? I don't really know what I'm supposed to be looking for or what's missing.


Marth's sword trail emphasises his tip. He is the only character with a sword trail like this.
 
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Neo Zero

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Marth has a mechanic where the tip does more damage than the rest of the sword. In this lucina shot, it shows that the whole blade has an equal damage ratio (or that's what we are guessing based on the animation)
I wasn't aware you could visually see the tipper of Marth in the sword slash. Thus why I'm asking for a comparison picture, because all I see is a blue streak like Marth would have.

EDIT: @ Shun_one Shun_one Thanks, that makes it much more clear to me. I'm also glad that this likely means she doesn't have the stupid Roy mechanic of being a sword fighter whos only strong at the core of his sword.
 
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Hydde

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The only true deserving clone character is Toon Link, plain and simple. This is not really who is more deserving between Falco and Lucina when it comes to being a clone character, but whom you dislike more.

I have already proved my points when conversing with Raetah why Lucina got in and should stay in.

Personally, I see Falco as the one who brings the Super Smash Brothers Roster down in terms of Fulfillment.
No matter how you spin it, a clone is lazy design.

Yeh, in melee they werea positive experiment even when some were fails.... but this is 2014, not 2001
 

PlasmaPuffball

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I don't really mind if she is a clone or semi-clone. I am much more bothered by the fact that her idle animations are exactly the same as Marth's. Like, her fighting pose in Awakening was pretty unique to her and was kinda iconic. They really took the time to flesh out Robin so much to include a vast variety of tomes in Awakening, like Thoron, Nosferatu, Elwind, Arcfire, and the Bronze Sword and Levin Sword, but they really couldn't give Lucina the fighting pose she actually uses that makes her unique? Did they really have to copy Marth THAT much as to even give the the putting her hand on her chest thing? I love Lucina and she was one of my most wanted newcomers, but just that little thing bothers me so much for some reason. I mean, I figure Lucina was requested, especially in Japan since I think she is more popular there, and Fire Emblem in general I believe is more popular in the East, but they just didnt really seem to do her justice compared to the other newcomers.


I mean, even the hackers that made this mod or whatever gave Lucina the pose and did it pretty well actually. I would think Sakurai would do the same since Awakening seems to be getting a good amount of attention.

TL;DR: Lucina's idle animations bother me quite a bit.
 

FlynnCL

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Can you post a Marth pic for comparison? I don't really know what I'm supposed to be looking for or what's missing.
Marth's whole game is his tipper spacing, and in Smash 4 they've really signified it by adding very noticeable light trails only on the tip of his swings. If Lucina was a direct copy of Marth, she'd have them too.

Lucina and Marth's neutral air, and the trails differ quite heavily. I think this is really cool, and a huge relief...
 
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Oracle_Summon

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No matter how you spin it, a clone is lazy design.

Yeh, in melee they werea positive experiment even when some were fails.... but this is 2014, not 2001
Only in SS64 was it a positive experiment to me. I did not find it a positive experiment in Melee. I believe clones should have stopped at Melee, unless you count Luigi as a clone.

Agreed, which is why we should stop now with the clones in this game, unless they hold importance in their respective games.
 
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LancerStaff

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This is interesting, but I don't think it proves much. Personally, I'd like to see if the sword slash matches with another character before we make the call. Who knows, it could be a placeholder if it matches Link's or something.
 

himemiya

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I cant find the excuses seriously.

I think that including this Lucina girl.... is just causing more questions than answers.

Robin alone would have been excellent...but i find Lucina forced. I mean...yeh she is from a new FE, but as a clone she is totally uneeded.

Yeh, she can end being top tier...but the fact remains that she is a friggin marth clone. It would have been much wiser to simply not include her.
Lets hope they give her a bunch of aesthetics at least.
 

Raetah

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If I recall, I heard someone stating that the Star Fox Team was about working together protecting the galaxy. According to Falco's attitude he does not fit the bill.

Goomba is nothing more than Cannon Fodder though, that is the entire point. That is like trying to get the typical Star Fox robotic enemies to be playable. To even suggest the Goomba as part of your argument makes no sense, because Plot character > common enemy.

Response to bold: You just said it yourself why Lucina is more important to her own franchise than Falco is to his own.

This is up for speculation, but I bet, that if Falco was never in Super Smash Brothers, he would never have the fan following he has today.
A character with an incorrect attitude to be in a team is nothing new or even rare. For example Fox = Sonic, Slippy = Tails, Falco = Knuckles. Knuckles is another character that does not fit in a team despite being in several titles forming team with Sonic.

My point is that the role of a character is not connected to being more or less Iconic, Falco has a less important Role, yet he is more iconic than Lucina. Goomba has less important role than both, yet he is more Iconic than both.

Fire Emblem Awakening characters have tha advantage of the recent glory, that is indeed going to make those climb several positions in relevancy. But Falco still being out of range from those. Specially after all those all years of Falco in smash.

And im agree with you in that last statment, SSB clearly boosted Falco. Anyway, i ask you, why you root against Falco this much? Im not even a Star Fox deep follower and i find it annoying.
He is a secondary character of a good series that appeared as a playable character in a crossover game and gained popularity for that, is that a crime for you or something?

Also all those "role" thing is dumb, and not really THAT important in smash, look:

There are some characters inside Mario franchise with more playable appearances and more relevant roles than Rosalina.

Do you think that Greninja, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Greninja or Lucario had a more important role inside the Pokemon franchise than Mewtwo? (perhaps charizard really does)

Better question, do you think that Any Pokemon in Smash has more relevancy that Pokemon Trainer in any Pokemon game in therms of role?
 

TheCJBrine

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This is interesting, but I don't think it proves much. Personally, I'd like to see if the sword slash matches with another character before we make the call. Who knows, it could be a placeholder if it matches Link's or something.
All other sword-users, including Link, have a different sword slash.
 

Oracle_Summon

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A character with an incorrect attitude to be in a team is nothing new or even rare. For example Fox = Sonic, Slippy = Tails, Falco = Knuckles. Knuckles is another character that does not fit in a team despite being in several titles forming team with Sonic.

My point is that the role of a character is not connected to being more or less Iconic, Falco has a less important Role, yet he is more iconic than Lucina. Goomba has less important role than both, yet he is more Iconic than both.

Fire Emblem Awakening characters have tha advantage of the recent glory, that is indeed going to make those climb several positions in relevancy. But Falco still being out of range from those. Specially after all those all years of Falco in smash.

And im agree with you in that last statment, SSB clearly boosted Falco. Anyway, i ask you, why you root against Falco this much? Im not even a Star Fox deep follower and i find it annoying.
He is a secondary character of a good series that appeared as a playable character in a crossover game and gained popularity for that, is that a crime for you or something?

Also all those "role" thing is dumb, and not really THAT important in smash, look:

There are some characters inside Mario franchise with more playable appearances and more relevant roles than Rosalina.

Do you think that Greninja, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Greninja or Lucario had a more important role inside the Pokemon franchise than Mewtwo? (perhaps charizard really does)

Better question, do you think that Any Pokemon in Smash has more relevancy that Pokemon Trainer in any Pokemon game in therms of role?
I am against Falco because he brings the least to any Smash Brothers games. He has done nothing significant wise in his own series. Could have been easily swapped out for Slippy/Peppy Hare. People also try to counteract or downplay Wolf so I downplay Falco, when Wolf is clearly the one who is more diverse to Fox.

It is hard to explain, but Falco just seems off to me, like he doesn't belong.

Using Pokemon is not a good example, because all of the characters can be swapped out in the game. There is no Pokemon character that has the most relevancy, besides Pikachu who is the Pokemon mascot.

Now I would like to ask you, what do you have against Lucina?
 
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Jiggly

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I believe that Lucina will be upper tier, higher than her proceeder: Marth. But how much weaker will her slashes be, than marth's tip slashes? Will Luicina be a better damage racker? Will people ever acknowledge that lucina isn't a marth Alt? There are just too many questions I need answered!!!!!!! xD
 

Hydde

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but they really couldn't give Lucina the fighting pose she actually uses that makes her unique? Did they really have to copy Marth THAT much as to even give the the putting her hand on her chest thing?
Exactly..

theres such a feeling of unease, on all this Lucina thing.
 

Jiggly

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Even unrevealed ones?
How would we know? Are you seriously asking, if all sword users have different slash animations, including the ones we haven't seen? You might as well ask someone a question, that is impossible to answer. I'm sure sakurai wouldn't randomily copy the slash patterns with MK or shulk, when he has already completed the pattern. And please, think next time before asking questions :D
 

WishOn

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At first, I was kind of disappointed by Lucinda, but the more I look at it, the more I think she's gonna be a good addition to the game.
 

Wraeith

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I believe that Lucina will be upper tier, higher than her proceeder: Marth. But how much weaker will her slashes be, than marth's tip slashes? Will Luicina be a better damage racker? Will people ever acknowledge that lucina isn't a marth Alt? There are just too many questions I need answered!!!!!!! xD
Assuming Lucina is in fact a unique character, she'll be one part of Marth's old incarnation. She'll inherit his speed, aerial-prowess and combo potential, but will lack his power, kill potential, and the tipper mechanic.

I'm not convinced she'll be top-tier yet, though I fear both Marth and Lucina won't be strong as Marth previously was.
 

Aenglaan

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She's most likely a clone, but unlike other characters, I don't see this as a problem. In the game, she purposely disguises herself as Marth and uses the same blade as him. Given this information, I think it's pretty fitting for her to be a clone. However, I wouldn't mind some different moves, though.
 

LancerStaff

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How would we know? Are you seriously asking, if all sword users have different slash animations, including the ones we haven't seen? You might as well ask someone a question, that is impossible to answer. I'm sure sakurai wouldn't randomily copy the slash patterns with MK or shulk, when he has already completed the pattern. And please, think next time before asking questions :D
I'm saying this because it's not definite. Even the site still has the disclaimer that things aren't final. Presumably, moves themselves are, because we haven't seen any change. But minor visuals have been changing left and right. Until someone answers my impossible question, we can't be sure.

Comparing characters, ATs, Pokeballs, other items... What about her Sspecial compared to Marth's? That'd quickly prove they're still using placeholders, but we wouldn't know which is the placeholder.
 

lightdasher

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Comparing characters, ATs, Pokeballs, other items... What about her Sspecial compared to Marth's? That'd quickly prove they're still using placeholders, but we wouldn't know which is the placeholder.
Marths Side special, shown in that video I posted above your post, shows that his sword leaves a red trail when he swings, lucina did not have that.
 

PAPCGyE

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She does seem to have a different Final Smash than Chrom, and her stats are probably different too, so I think she's doing better than what Toon Link was in Brawl.
Toon Link is similar to Link, but not a clone, like Fox and Wolf, but in this case they are clones, like Fox and Falco or Ness and Lucas
 

Superyoshiom

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So I guess we can safely say that Lucina isn't a COMPLETE clone of Marth and is going to have her own character slot in the vein of Roy in Melee.
 
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NivinyaFate

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I think Lucina will likely have some differences from Marth, even if they share some, maybe all the same moves. Even if the moves are the same, they could still make her play and feel somewhat differently with things like altering the sweet spot of her weapon, speed, damage, etc. She could also have different default specials than Marth, which I don't know if it will matter or not for offline competitive play, but it will make a difference for people who'll play For Glory mode a lot.
 

Novice_Brave

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I'm not entirely sure about this, but I'm going to give it a mention. Everyone I've seen seems to be thinking her nair is the same as Marth's - and it looked that way to me as well, but then I saw a gif that was a repeat of her nair. Smashboards isn't letting me post the link since I don't have 10 posts yet, though :/

Is it legal to post the link with spaces between it so that I can still show everyone? http:// gfycat.com/ FineSentimentalGecko (if this is illegal, lemme know and I'll do whatever the rules call for. Just figured my post is fairly useless without my source.)

It looks to me like it has at least 4 different hits - she slashes forward, hits Samus, slashes backward and hits nothing, slashes forward again and hits Samus again, then slashes backward once more and hits Greninja. Looks more like a multihit spin than the double slash Marth has had. His only hits twice, right? I'll feel bad if he doesn't.
 

Raido

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Toon Link is similar to Link, but not a clone, like Fox and Wolf, but in this case they are clones, like Fox and Falco or Ness and Lucas
What? Who is a clone now and who isn't and who is a clone like another clone and who is the clone of Dolly?
 
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