Q&A Mirror of Truth or Palutena's Advice? Both available at all hours of the day

[LucarioMurffdog]

Practice does great. And when you're in a competitive match, don't even think about it, as after a while, it'll come naturally. If you accidentally screw up and do a big jump, just follow it up with a D. Air. Barely any landing lag. Hope you do well. And don't ever feel bad to come to me for help.

Also, I used to be a Pikachu main ^_^

 

[Zydro]

Practice does great. And when you're in a competitive match, don't even think about it, as after a while, it'll come naturally. If you accidentally screw up and do a big jump, just follow it up with a D. Air. Barely any landing lag. Hope you do well. And don't ever feel bad to come to me for help.

Also, I used to be a Pikachu main ^_^

Ok Thank you ^_^, and Pikachu is great fun, utilt Juggles for life (also another character great for short hopping)

 

[Zydro]

Practice does great. And when you're in a competitive match, don't even think about it, as after a while, it'll come naturally. If you accidentally screw up and do a big jump, just follow it up with a D. Air. Barely any landing lag. Hope you do well. And don't ever feel bad to come to me for help.

Also, I used to be a Pikachu main ^_^

Are you up to fight (if you have the 3DS version), would be nice to watch another Dark Pit play (dont find many on for glory)

 

[LucarioMurffdog]

Not right now, I'm kinda on punishment from games, bad grades (still in school).. But that doesn't stop me from spreading my knowledge on then. I'll follow you, and you'll be the first person to know when I get my stuff back.

 

[Zydro]

Not right now, I'm kinda on punishment from games, bad grades (still in school).. But that doesn't stop me from spreading my knowledge on then. I'll follow you, and you'll be the first person to know when I get my stuff back.

Aww that sucks, feel sorry for you.

 

[LucarioMurffdog]

"Can't help but feel sorry for you..."

Was that a Dark Pit reference that I heard there??

 

[Zydro]

Could be, you'll never know

 

[ReRaze]

Pit's double jumps turn him to face the direction of travel, which is generally where the issue lies with this. If you input the attack quick enough, Pit will do a rising bair without initiating a turn-around jump. If you're a hair too slow, he'll initiate a turn around jump, and since you already buffered a bair (the game buffered the move before the turnaround jump could register a change of direction, sadly), he'll bair in the wrong direction. If you're more than a hair too slow, he'll initiate a turn around jump, and use fair, as his change of direction will be noted before the attack is buffered.

Thank you so much for explaining that! at least now I know it's not a problem with the system.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Hello, could you teach me how to fight Sheik, I just don't get it. I was having a hard time landing against his F-Air strings, but now I just have a tough time approaching because of the Needles and just how fast he can either:

1) Dash Grab
2) F-Air
3) Roll behind me

etc.

),:

 

[Wa_Black]

Hello, could you teach me how to fight Sheik, I just don't get it. I was having a hard time landing against his F-Air strings, but now I just have a tough time approaching because of the Needles and just how fast he can either:

1) Dash Grab
2) F-Air
3) Roll behind me

etc.

),:

you can f smash roll behinds on reactions.
pivots, pivot throws, and backwards di'd aerials help deal with dash grabs. you could also spot dodge, but that's more risk.
to be her fair, i would suggest you play around it, when she's in the air get on top of her and dair her if she flinches. space out your fair so that it would out prioritize her's. if you're quick, you can slide under when she jumps and hit her fair with your up smash; she has to be directly in front or on top of you.

 

[Bluew]

Is it just me or does b-reversed Upperdash Arm seem faster than a normal one? To me it just seems like it hits sooner.

 

[Illuminose]

Why do people use Dark Pit in general? Are there match up-specific things? I have a Pit/Dark Pit secondary, but I'm not really that familiar with when to pick which. For instance, I always see Nairo going Dark Pit against Diddy. Is there a reason for this, or is it just preference? As far as I can tell, Pit seems basically superior due to the kill power of his Up B and better FTilt (DPit's Neutral 3 basically makes up for the difference in arrows, so that's not really a concern).

 

[LancerStaff]

Why do people use Dark Pit in general? Are there match up-specific things? I have a Pit/Dark Pit secondary, but I'm not really that familiar with when to pick which. For instance, I always see Nairo going Dark Pit against Diddy. Is there a reason for this, or is it just preference? As far as I can tell, Pit seems basically superior due to the kill power of his Up B and better FTilt (DPit's Neutral 3 basically makes up for the difference in arrows, so that's not really a concern).

Mostly just preference. Nairo doesn't seem to like arrows that much and prefers the angle.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Hello, there are a ton of Sonics in my local area and I was curious if anyone had any tips for this specific matchup? Sonic is fast, has some fairly good kills moves, isn't too ridiculously light and I don't really know how to deal with him. Any advice?

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Sonic has a hit and run playstyle, so you have to play a bit patiently.
Shield and punish spindashes, watch out for bthrow
You can also try asking around in here
http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-and-the-book-of-matchups-ch-5-diddy-kong.390575/
Since the Pit MU thread is ded

 

[ReRaze]

@ Strong-Arm Sonic isnt too hard. To deal with spin dash use a jumping nair, dair, etc to catch him out of it but you have to time it right. To deal with homing attack just spot dodge and punish dont shield. Aside from those things you shouldnt have trouble with anything else. What specifically makes this matchup hard for you? And dont say his speed because that's easily dealt with a good reaction time and Pit's fast attacks.

 

[Strong-Arm]

@ Strong-Arm Sonic isnt too hard. To deal with spin dash use a jumping nair, dair, etc to catch him out of it but you have to time it right. To deal with homing attack just spot dodge and punish dont shield. Aside from those things you shouldnt have trouble with anything else. What specifically makes this matchup hard for you? And dont say his speed because that's easily dealt with a good reaction time and Pit's fast attacks.

Well the guys I fight have the bury spin dash and they grab quit a bit. I've won a few matches against these guys. On for glory I don't have too much trouble, but customs sonic in the hands of some good players give me a hard time. His speed isn't too big of a deal, but that burying move combined with his punishing jacks me up. Ive started using Guiding arrows to keep him at bay tho. I think I may just need more practice with the MU.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Hey folks! I'm tentatively picking up Pit in Smash 4, although I've only really played For Glory at this point. I haven't run into any Rosalina/Diddy/Sonic/ZSS players since I started playing Pit, but one character that's given me some trouble is Villager.

1) Anyone have any tips on approaching villager, or should I try and somehow force him to approach?
- What I was doing was basically blowing up their Lloid with the bow or occasionally reflecting it back, but that's not perfect.

2) Anyone have any tips on recovering against villager?
- I was recovering low, which in hindsight seems foolish, but would occasionally manage to Upperdash Arm the bowling ball and recover safely.

 

[ReRaze]

Hey folks! I'm tentatively picking up Pit in Smash 4, although I've only really played For Glory at this point. I haven't run into any Rosalina/Diddy/Sonic/ZSS players since I started playing Pit, but one character that's given me some trouble is Villager.

1) Anyone have any tips on approaching villager, or should I try and somehow force him to approach?
- What I was doing was basically blowing up their Lloid with the bow or occasionally reflecting it back, but that's not perfect.

2) Anyone have any tips on recovering against villager?
- I was recovering low, which in hindsight seems foolish, but would occasionally manage to Upperdash Arm the bowling ball and recover safely.

Dont let villager zone you out. Your dash speed is fast enough to get in and you have an amazing zone breaker in dash attack. Alternatively you can use any aerial to approach as well. If the villager uses loid rockets approach with dash attack or dash grab. If hes using slingshot approach with an aerial. You could also approach with upperdash arm although this is risky as you can reflect the projectile and get punished for it if you don't space well. (Make sure not to get hit by running up and shielding or upperdash if your not close enough yet, there is only so much room that villager can space you out with)

Always recover using upperdash but if you somehow have to recover low:
-If the villager likes to use the bowling ball just float around under the ledge as close to the wall for as long as possible and you can recover safely by sharking the stage up to the ledge. Never go straight towards the ledge. If you are fighting on a stage with long walls down the side (like dr wily's castle) there really isnt much you can do to recover, at the very least you could anticipate the bowling ball and use guardian orbitars to reflect it back up catching him off guard. If he shields he'll be pushed back a bit and probably be too surprised to use another bowling ball while you recover.
-If the villager goes for attacks offstage he cant really kill you unless he gets a spike which is impossible if you are sharking towards the ledge (sharking is when you slide under the stage straight to the ledge with pits recovery, just recover straight up a little to the inside of the stage and you should shark up to the ledge although this doesnt work on some stages (i didnt come up with the name by the way i saw someone else use it on the pit forums)). He can stage spike you but we tech those. It is also practically impossible to gimp pit.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Dont let villager zone you out. Your dash speed is fast enough to get in and you have an amazing zone breaker in dash attack. Alternatively you can use any aerial to approach as well. If the villager uses loid rockets approach with dash attack or dash grab. If hes using slingshot approach with an aerial. You could also approach with upperdash arm although this is risky as you can reflect the projectile and get punished for it if you don't space well. (Make sure not to get hit by running up and shielding or upperdash if your not close enough yet, there is only so much room that villager can space you out with)

I'm okay with taking things a little slow, so your advice should be easy to incorporate. I know upperdash arm reflects projectiles but for some reason I rarely use it that way, so thanks for pointing that out!

Always recover using upperdash but if you somehow have to recover low:
-If the villager likes to use the bowling ball just float around under the ledge as close to the wall for as long as possible and you can recover safely by sharking the stage up to the ledge.

Thanks! I'll look into practicing sharking a bit to get the hang of it.

 

[EnGarde]

Fun fact: lloid is one of the few projectiles truly reflected by upperdash (that is, flipping directions to travel back towards villager). If the villager likes to cover himself or run close behind the lloid to grab your shield he'll get hit by both lloid and upperdash. If he's further back and upperdash whiffs, lloid is still a potent projectile heading straight for him, covering your endlag. It makes a good mixup option, especially late game. Also, there are steps that can be taken to reduce endlag on hit (hitting a projectile counts) for upperdash, I'll update my thread sometime this week (probably) describing just how awesome landing cancel upperdash is. <3

 

[ReRaze]

Fun fact: lloid is one of the few projectiles truly reflected by upperdash (that is, flipping directions to travel back towards villager). If the villager likes to cover himself or run close behind the lloid to grab your shield he'll get hit by both lloid and upperdash. If he's further back and upperdash whiffs, lloid is still a potent projectile heading straight for him, covering your endlag. It makes a good mixup option, especially late game. Also, there are steps that can be taken to reduce endlag on hit (hitting a projectile counts) for upperdash, I'll update my thread sometime this week (probably) describing just how awesome landing cancel upperdash is. <3

Cancel upperdash? like ledge cancel or landing hit cancel (using aerial version)....?

 

[Tito Maas]

I feel like I'm a pretty good Dark Pit but the biggest hole in my game is not being able to attack and gimp well offstage. I feel like I hardly ever get spikes or stage spikes or even off-stage K.O.'s in general, and as Dark Pit that's pretty embarrassing because that's what he's supposed to be dominant at. I'm not sure if I use jumps badly, if I'm not good at forcing people in position to get K.O.'d or what.

One thing I think I'm doing wrong is using the aerials too late. I feel like my aerials are always getting beaten--does anyone have frame information on when aerials are most effective? Back air is the absolute worst--I very rarely land those, and really I don't even know how to jump backwards in the air consistently to set up Walls of Pain (which would be especially helpful since I'm trying to make Mewtwo my secondary).

Any advice? Thanks in advance!

 

[Tito Maas]

I feel like I'm a pretty good Pit but the biggest hole in my game is not being able to attack and gimp well offstage. I feel like I hardly ever get spikes or stage spikes or even off-stage K.O.'s in general, and as Pit1 or Pittoo that's pretty embarrassing because that's what they're supposed to be dominant at. I'm not sure if I use jumps badly, if I'm not good at forcing people in position to get K.O.'d or what.

One thing I think I'm doing wrong is using the aerials too late. I feel like my aerials are always getting beaten--does anyone have frame information on when aerials are most effective? Back air is the absolute worst--I very rarely land those, and really I don't even know how to jump backwards in the air consistently to set up Walls of Pain (which would be especially helpful since I'm trying to make Mewtwo my secondary).

Any advice or general strategy on aerial combat?

 

[MKchouy]

Yeah dark pit excels at off stage game, that's where I get half my kills.

Number one is you need to perfect the recovery. Dark pit can go DEEP for kills with his multiple jumps and amazing up-b, but if you don't mix up the amount of jumps you use and sweet spot recovery you cannot comfortably go offstage. Multiple jumps is one of the best things about him so utilize it to mix things up and remember to fast fall often so it's harder to react to.

Uair is amazing for juggling, forward air is great for spacing, dair is very fast and sour spot dair is also good because it pops the opponent up for combo potential. It's so easy to run off-stage and spike characters with linear/predictable recoveries because of how fast it comes out. Bair is probably his most under rated move, it's amazing. Great for poking, very fast, no landing lag and has a tipper so it's a kill move.

Use fair to space characters away from you, the disjoint is great. Throw dairs out a lot even if you're not trying to spike because it is very quick and like a said sour spot dair is still great for combos.

When you up-b back to the stage and your opponent is on the stage ready to edge guard, be ready to tech for stage spikes. Your recovery is amazing and all, but if the situation is reversed and you're getting edge guarded it's very easy to kill darkpit/pit if they are predictable and don't tech.

 

[blue_flavored]

My experience with Pit is very limited. I just started using him yesterday, although I must say I'm pretty good with him already and I like using him a lot. But that being said, I think in general with gimping it's not about meeting someone with an attack but rather making then run into the attack. Hit them with the end of the hitbox. Get a feel for the length of Pits hitboxes, especially his fair since it has the most range (I think it does) and it will knock them back. Also never forget, arrows are your friends. Keep shooting if you're not close enough to intercept the enemy with an aerial or just use them to mix it up to keep the enemy guessing.

 

[Gidy]

Can you hit spindash with arrows?

 

[notyourparadigm]

Can you hit spindash with arrows?

I'm pretty sure you can; IIRC that move has very low priority and is beaten out by almost any attack. But remember that arrows have a lot of cool down and so missing can give Sonic time enough for really any punish imaginable. I'd advise against shooting more than one at a time, and it had better be nearly a full stage's distance away if you are both grounded. I think it's a decent option when you are in the air and trying to cover a landing, or if Sonic is in the air and trying to land himself, but remember missing leaves you open to a free homing shot (or even worse). Aim true and keep in mind how quickly Sonic can close any sort of gap. I think auto-cancelled aerials are generally safer as you can (usually) avoid a punish if they whiff.

 

[ShowTime6Fro]

One thing pit can do very well of stage is chase people into the blast zone. For characters that have snap to the ledge recovery or linear vertical recovery go of stage and use rising down air's, you get three(supposing you run off). You also have four jumps, footstool if you can, it is incredibly broken. You could try stage spikes but they are not as reliable because of teching.

 

[BraveFantasy]

I generally set up most of my spikes with a few arrows. Charge an arrow, wait for your opponent to become horizontal with your position on stage, and fire. If they dodge they're now in a position where they have to recover low, which should be an easy spike. If they don't dodge and get hit then fire another arrow or press your advantage with a fair or bair. Also you could just keep firing arrows until you force them to recover high. If you catch the double jump with a uair and carry them offstage again they're done. No jump off stage? They'll either recover high or try to go low. It's pretty easy to react to either. Seal a high recovery with a well placed charge usmash, and any low recovery attempts with a dair. I should mention this only works once on a good player. Try it again and they'll recover high while you're arrow charging. In that case just release the arrow and throw out a uair close to the ground. If they dodge catch their landing with a grab and throw them back off stage. If they get hit by the uair then carry them back off stage since chances are in order to recover high they burned their double jump. With optimized pit play once your opponent is offstage at mid percents they should never live.

 

[Corthos Fellrin]

I find myself using the arrows most of the time, gimping people out of the second jump. Maybe I will go out there for a Dair, but chasing with Fairs is another opinion. I find that my kills mostly come from vertically.

 

[Wintropy]

It depends on the character I'm fighting, honestly. If I'm fighting somebody with a good recovery like Rosalina or even another Pit / Pittoo, I'll usually let them ledgesnap and then punish them on the getup - if I'm feeling particularly daring, I'll try go for a ledgefall aerial to catch their recovery's linear trajectory as it's about to touch the ledge; on the other hand, against somebody with poor air speed and recovery like Ganondorf or Ike, I can usually suffice with arrows.

Point is, it's all contextual. How you apply off-stage pressure will inherently depend on the nature of the opponent and how they can recover - there are even anomalous cases like Ness (can be super easily gimped with arrows or a well-timed f-air, but the risk is massive if he connects PKT2 before you get to him) or Olimar and Duck Hunt (decent recovery, but very easy to catch as it comes). I like to mix it up depending on whom I'm fighting, and occasionally throw in a new trick so I am not predicted.

Some techniques I find useful and which can be applied essentially universally are:

- Arrow baiting. Charge an arrow (use the rotation method if you need to store power) and then release, aiming for your opponent as normal. If they read it and airdodge, you've now set them up for punishment. Get stuck in immediately after they airdodge and f-air them, repeating it necessary.

- Arrow nudging. If your opponent is very close to the blastzone and only needs a slight tap to get KO'd, a charged arrow can push them back just enough to get the kill. I think it's easier to do this with Pit's arrows, as you can aim them to a greater degree and the knockback is the same as Pittoo's.

- F-air is always a good tool for chasing your opponent in the air. It can string together into a Wall of Pain combo that can efficiently drag the opponent into the blastzone - again, though, it depends on how good your opponent's recovery is and how they can DI out of your combo.

- D-air should honestly only be used as a last resort or mixup. If you do it too often - as in, your go-to reaction for edgeguarding is to go for a d-air spike - your opponent will read it and react accordingly. It's very predictable and honestly seldom worth it as a spike unless you have expert timing; opponents like Pit / Pittoo and Rosalina, at lower percents, can even recover back to the stage with little effort. D-air can be a great damage-dealer, though, and if you have good timing and the opponent DIs accordingly, you can combo d-air strings for high damage. It probably won't kill in this way, but it can be a good setup for a f-air or b-air if you can connect. Condition your opponent into airdodging or expecting something else, then go in for a d-air spike if you feel confident and want to shake things up a little.

Pit is a champion at gimping and off-stage play, it just takes a bit of practice. Never be afraid to go deep: Pit's recovery is fantastic and you'll almost always make it back to the stage safely, and whatever trouble he may have killing on-stage, off-stage is his zone.

 

[ZephyrZ]

How I go about it depends on how far off I throw them.

If they go really far off, I generally go for my arrows. But as they reach a certain range, arrow gimping becomes less practicle and I toss my arrows aside in favor of jumping off the edge myself. The exception to this, of course, is when my opponent recovers extremely high; Pit's air speed isn't incredible, so even if they won't kill, hitting high opponent with anything but arrows can be diffucult.

Fair has go to be Pit's best close combat edge-guarding tool. It's disjointed, it can be fastfalled, and it's got some good knockback. Many characters will die if they get hit by this off stage so long as they already used their second jump(and don't have rediculous recovery).

Don't be scared to go deep; Pit's recovery is so good he can always make it back. However, going far out or far up can be a bit difficult because of his air speed.

 

[EnGarde]

Cancel upperdash? like ledge cancel or landing hit cancel (using aerial version)....?

Jump Cancelled Landing Cancel (JCLC) Upperdash. That's WITH the hitbox of course. I'm hoping you can combo out of it, but I'm not sure yet. I've had to put working on it on hold while I get used to my new controller (my goal is to go to Smash Con, but they don't allow wireless controllers, so rip my wii u pro controller), so I won't be updating the thread for a while longer.

 

[ReRaze]

Jump Cancelled Landing Cancel (JCLC) Upperdash. That's WITH the hitbox of course. I'm hoping you can combo out of it, but I'm not sure yet. I've had to put working on it on hold while I get used to my new controller (my goal is to go to Smash Con, but they don't allow wireless controllers, so rip my wii u pro controller), so I won't be updating the thread for a while longer.

Is that when you use the aerial version and hit someone as you land cancelling the animation? I don't think you can combo out of that :/ but hopefully im wrong :3.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Fair is porbably your best bet when edge guarding. It's got good spacing and good KB both; it'll often kill if you land it. You can also fast fall it, which is nice and not very risk thanks to your recovery. Speaking of recovery, try to predict your opponents and intercept it with this attack; since it's a disjoint, it'll often be safe if you can time it right.
Dair is your next best off-stage bet. It doesn't always spike reliabley, but it is effective depending on your current posistioning. Use it when it looks or feels natural.

You may not have Pit's level of curving on our arrows, but they're still good to throw out when your opponent is far off stage, even if it means short hopping to get to the right height. If you land one, it may kill or put your opponent in an even worse position, making them much easier to edge-guard.

 

[Tito Maas]

Yeah dark pit excels at off stage game, that's where I get half my kills.

Number one is you need to perfect the recovery. Dark pit can go DEEP for kills with his multiple jumps and amazing up-b, but if you don't mix up the amount of jumps you use and sweet spot recovery you cannot comfortably go offstage. Multiple jumps is one of the best things about him so utilize it to mix things up and remember to fast fall often so it's harder to react to.

Uair is amazing for juggling, forward air is great for spacing, dair is very fast and sour spot dair is also good because it pops the opponent up for combo potential. It's so easy to run off-stage and spike characters with linear/predictable recoveries because of how fast it comes out. Bair is probably his most under rated move, it's amazing. Great for poking, very fast, no landing lag and has a tipper so it's a kill move.

Use fair to space characters away from you, the disjoint is great. Throw dairs out a lot even if you're not trying to spike because it is very quick and like a said sour spot dair is still great for combos.

I see that Nairo does that a lot. Why? Is it just because it does damage? Or is there another tactical strategy to well, kinda randomly throwing out DAirs?

 

[FirestormNeos]

What character(s) are decent counterpicks against Dark Pit?

 

[Tito Maas]

Dark Pit doesn't really have any tools for aggressive play that Pit doesn't. It could be about his arrows, I guess, but I find they usually do the trick for forcing approaches on flatter stages.

There are some For Glory scrubs who think Electroshock is the best thing since sliced bread and spam it. I was kind of like that at first, actually, but I've become better since then.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the Electroshock/Upperdash arms make all the difference in the characters, which is a bit surprising to me. Dark Pit and Pit1 are both punishing characters imo--with ehh kill moves in terms of reliability and heavy usage of grabs and arrows, they've always been characters that capitalize on mistakes rather than ones that force them.

Their strength is also battling off-stage. That's where the difference comes in. The Electroshock knocks opponents horizontally offstage while the Upperdash forces them upwards. With the Electroshock, you can force opponents offstage and play to Dark Pit's other strengths from there. Plus it's a nice offensive tool when use correctly; very rewarding on hard reads. With Pit, you don't have that same advantage, so naturally Dark Pit becomes a more offensive character.

 

[EnGarde]

Is that when you use the aerial version and hit someone as you land cancelling the animation? I don't think you can combo out of that :/ but hopefully im wrong :3.

:]

My training partner was the one to originally discover this, and I've been trying to do it consistently ever since, but the timing is pretty strict. I've had to put working on this on hold until after I'm 100% on my new controller. It's still aerial upperdash, so it loses kill power, but it's much safer, and as I said, I'm still hoping for low % combos.