Q&A Mirror of Truth or Palutena's Advice? Both available at all hours of the day

[ShortcutButton]

Try to jump as you dair - that always works with me.

 

[LancerStaff]

:]

My training partner was the one to originally discover this, and I've been trying to do it consistently ever since, but the timing is pretty strict. I've had to put working on this on hold until after I'm 100% on my new controller. It's still aerial upperdash, so it loses kill power, but it's much safer, and as I said, I'm still hoping for low % combos.

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

There's a way to do this consistently? I've been looking for this since day one. I don't think there's any combos, but the big thing is hitting shields and grabbing them out of shield stun. You just found something absurdly OP if I'm right.

 

[EnGarde]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

There's a way to do this consistently? I've been looking for this since day one. I don't think there's any combos, but the big thing is hitting shields and grabbing them out of shield stun. You just found something absurdly OP if I'm right.

Actually, credit goes to @Senshu for the original find. That's actually his replay I recorded from lol.

I'm having trouble getting it consistently, unfortunately, because the timing is really tight and my controls are new (gcc johns lol). But yeah, this has a lot of potential. Just remember that while the cool down (where he swings the arm up) is cancelled, the landing lag is not. I'm not sure how many frames the landing lag is, but you can still be punished out of it. Also, sometimes, you get the shorter landing lag, and sometimes the longer landing lag. Not sure what the trigger there is, and I don't have enough experience with it yet to say one way or another, which is why I haven't added this to my side b research thread yet.

 

[LancerStaff]

Actually, credit goes to @Senshu for the original find. That's actually his replay I recorded from lol.

I'm having trouble getting it consistently, unfortunately, because the timing is really tight and my controls are new (gcc johns lol). But yeah, this has a lot of potential. Just remember that while the cool down (where he swings the arm up) is cancelled, the landing lag is not. I'm not sure how many frames the landing lag is, but you can still be punished out of it. Also, sometimes, you get the shorter landing lag, and sometimes the longer landing lag. Not sure what the trigger there is, and I don't have enough experience with it yet to say one way or another, which is why I haven't added this to my side b research thread yet.

Long lag and short lag? Hm. An interesting wrinkle... Are you consistent enough to see if you can grab a non-perfect shielded hit on the short lag?

 

[EnGarde]

no

The controls are simple in theory, though. Jump, and then side b. Too early, and you get grounded side b. Too late, and you get no landing cancel. I'm guessing the phenomenon is close to frame perfect, but I don't know much about that myself. (new smasher lol). You can explore landing cancel by itself, though, by landing with it out of a regular jump. The spacing is actually not that hard to get on the way down.

 

[LancerStaff]

no

The controls are simple in theory, though. Jump, and then side b. Too early, and you get grounded side b. Too late, and you get no landing cancel. I'm guessing the phenomenon is close to frame perfect, but I don't know much about that myself. (new smasher lol). You can explore landing cancel by itself, though, by landing with it out of a regular jump. The spacing is actually not that hard to get on the way down.

Well, I've spent hours on this and never got it past a random occurrence. Sounds like you're further along then I am.

 

[EnGarde]

Well, I've spent hours on this and never got it past a random occurrence. Sounds like you're further along then I am.

Yeah, landing cancel is 100% spacing based on height from the ground, so my hypothesis is that JCLC upperdash is just canceling the jump on the right frame so that Pit's height is correct for landing cancel to occur.

Have you seen my thread? I put a lot of the basics in there. Link in sig lol. Err, I do need to update it though, since I really haven't put that much on the nuances of the landing lag in there yet. >.> So many things to do. Also, I'm pretty active in the Pit skype group, if you want to chat I'm there more often than I'm online here.

We also need to see if we can't get Nairo in there, since he plays the Pits too. >.>

 

[BraveFantasy]

There actually is a tactical strategy with that. Nairo goes for a lot of grabs, and tends to get people off the stage at fairly early percentages. Percentages that even if he were to hit with a fair or bair off stage there's no guarantees it will kill. So instead of going for damage with a fair or bair he opts for the dair, which if he happens to get the spike hitbox with will kill. If not it'll pop the opponent up to be combo'd. The "randomly throwing out dairs" isn't really random. Once his opponent is below the stage he drops off and depending on what type of recovery the opponent has either fast falls a dair, or jumps and repeatedly does it in a way that his positioning guards the ledge. It may seem random, but eventually the opponent is going to have to recover, and when they do if he's throwing out dairs there's a possibility they'll run into it, sealing the kill. At higher percents (kill percents) nairo opts for going deep with fair.

He's never said all this outright, but I would assume this is the logic behind why he does what he does.

 

[egaddmario]

I was fooling around with Little mac the other day and a Pit used the Guardian Orbitars to push my Up-B away and cause me to fall helplessly while Pit still standing on the stage. So i was wondering- what other recoveries can we neuter in this way?

 

[LancerStaff]

What character(s) are decent counterpicks against Dark Pit?

Lucario is really the only character Pit and Dark Pit will regularly struggle with. Everybody else is either neutral or pretty darned close to it and it's mostly based on the individual player. Other characters I think the two can end up struggling with are usually heavy characters like DDD and Link. Maybe Olimar since most of his moves are terrible at dealing with Pikmin...

 

[FirestormNeos]

Lucario is really the only character Pit and Dark Pit will regularly struggle with. Everybody else is either neutral or pretty darned close to it and it's mostly based on the individual player. Other characters I think the two can end up struggling with are usually heavy characters like DDD and Link.

Thanks.

Maybe Olimar since most of his moves are terrible at dealing with Pikmin...

ULTIMATE COMBO: (Repeat until ad nauseam causes to ragequit)

 

[Wa_Black]

Lucario is really the only character Pit and Dark Pit will regularly struggle with. Everybody else is either neutral or pretty darned close to it and it's mostly based on the individual player. Other characters I think the two can end up struggling with are usually heavy characters like DDD and Link. Maybe Olimar since most of his moves are terrible at dealing with Pikmin...

DDD can be tough. I have problems with characters that have high priority air hitboxes. Link's options between his nair and dair are enough to make you not want to aerial him. DDD's nair beats damn near everything and he is normally able to block when he lands. I think the angels have a strong aerial game, so characters who take that away from them, take less damage, and have more oppurtunies to when the match, also a character like DDD is hard to edge guard, taking away more of our kill options.

I don't think characters like shulk or luigi's aerial would gives us a problem because they have more weak angles to their hitboxes. Also, the angels destroy luigi. Any recovering side b from him is a free dair from us.

We have a lot of lag on our moves, so fast characters like falcon, fox, or sonic will be able to punish us when the block our attacks or when we whiff.

Short characters can easily avoid short hop aerials or just aerials in general and punish.

Fox, DDD, Falcon, and maybe even pikachu would be annoying to fight.

 

[Kyogokudo]

What is that jablock combo with ftilt I hear about and is there any video of it? I'm curious to see an use for DP's ftilt as it feels inferior to Pit's. If that combo can be useful I'll probably start using DP.
Because screw this having an angel as a second when you play Ganondorf doesn't feel right.

 

[LancerStaff]

What is that jablock combo with ftilt I hear about and is there any video of it? I'm curious to see an use for DP's ftilt as it feels inferior to Pit's. If that combo can be useful I'll probably start using DP.
Because screw this having an angel as a second when you play Ganondorf doesn't feel right.

Xacer's topic shows how to use it (and other ways to jablock) pretty well.

http://smashboards.com/threads/soaring-to-new-heights-advancing-the-pit-pitoo-meta.403018/

So basically you can Fthrow or Bthrow > opponent missed tech > pivot Ftilt (so you hit with the back of the fFtilt) > Ftilt > mixup. I see quite a bit of potential, myself.

 

[Heracr055]

I'm looking for gameplay footage of the leading Dark Pit players. I've seen Shofu, Zero and Nairo play, and I'm wondering who else to watch.

 

[FiXalaS]

I was fooling around with Little mac the other day and a Pit used the Guardian Orbitars to push my Up-B away and cause me to fall helplessly while Pit still standing on the stage. So i was wondering- what other recoveries can we neuter in this way?

recover a bit lower to ledge snap.

 

[Galaxian]

I don't main Pit myself, but I came here to ask - is there any way to DI out of Pit's dthrow chains? I'm certain that at 0% almost anything is guranteed, especially on someone like Ness.

Which direction should I be going?

 

[FiXalaS]

I don't main Pit myself, but I came here to ask - is there any way to DI out of Pit's dthrow chains? I'm certain that at 0% almost anything is guranteed, especially on someone like Ness.

Which direction should I be going?

DI left or right and you, but then you'll get hit by Fair, 50+% some characters can start escaping the combos, but wherever you DI to, Pit can follow up with most of the time Uair & Fair, sometimes Dair or Bair.

 

[LDSenpai]

What would you recommend for stages to avoid and to go for out of the competitive stage list?

 

[Wintropy]

I'm partial to:

- Battlefield
- Delfino Plaza
- Skyloft
- Town & City
- Smashville
- Wuhu Island (if legal)

I would avoid:

- Lylat Cruise
- Duck Hunt

I'm neutral on everything else. In a nutshell: stages with reliable platforms are your friend, stages with shifting positions that can interrupt your flow are mean and must be treated with care.

 

[eshu125]

I find that both battlefield and lylat happen to be his best stage picks. Halberd to follow since it still allows him to abuse people trying to land and he kills with upsmash earlier. Smashville is good for early f-throw kills and having a small space that allows you to get in. FD works well for us too but against some matchups it should be avoided. Castle siege is great. I'm sure delfino works fine as well but I'm not a fan of that stage so I don't have any experience there. Town and city is fine. Duck Hunt is kind of the same as fd.

 

[GuiltySnake]

I am completely lost on how to play him. I don't know how to approach or anything, really.

 

[Heracr055]

Hi there!
Dark Pit's typical style is to combo foes to a dangerous percentage. This is typically done with abusing the Down Throw into one of the following:
-Up Smash at lower percents, because it's pretty much guaranteed in most cases
-Up air or Forward air, depending on their trajectory (or neutral air)
Once the foe is at a dangerous level, he can use one of the following kill moves:
-Up Smash. This is a good option for airborne foes. If you get them in the air, you can jump to force air dodges and punish with the Up Smash, securing the stock.
-Back Air. There's a tipper on this move, and it has great knockback. I recommend doing this near the edge, facing away from the closest blast zone.
-Forward smash. You want to be very careful about throwing this move out, as it's highly punishable.
-Down Smash. The second hit of Down Smash has great horizontal knockback, and can spell certain doom for those with poor recovery.
-Forward Throw. Forward throw is an excellent kill option at higher percents, and I get many kills this way. Do this near the ledge, and try to keep it fresh.
-Edge guarding/gimping with forward air, neutral air or down air. This is where Dark Pit shines. His recovery options allow him to chase a foe to the blast zones, knock them into the blast zone or gimp them, and return with little problems. If you want to use Dark Pit, you must become very comfortable playing off stage. You also have to practice landing the spike on the down air. Edge guarding and gimping should be the way you secure most of your stocks. Use your back throw to set up edge guards.
Other notes:
-Your arrows are good for free damage, mind games and forcing a foe to come to you. There's quite a bit of cooldown on the move, so use them wisely. If you feel confident, you can try to gimp recoveries with them too.
-Electroshock Arm should be used to trade (super armor will usually come through for you) and knock opponents off for edgeguard shenanigains. I recommend keeping this move fresh, as it can score KOs near the ledge.

I'm more than happy to provide any more answers.

 

[GuiltySnake]

Hi there!
Dark Pit's typical style is to combo foes to a dangerous percentage. This is typically done with abusing the Down Throw into one of the following:
-Up Smash at lower percents, because it's pretty much guaranteed in most cases
-Up air or Forward air, depending on their trajectory (or neutral air)
Once the foe is at a dangerous level, he can use one of the following kill moves:
-Up Smash. This is a good option for airborne foes. If you get them in the air, you can jump to force air dodges and punish with the Up Smash, securing the stock.
-Back Air. There's a tipper on this move, and it has great knockback. I recommend doing this near the edge, facing away from the closest blast zone.
-Forward smash. You want to be very careful about throwing this move out, as it's highly punishable.
-Down Smash. The second hit of Down Smash has great horizontal knockback, and can spell certain doom for those with poor recovery.
-Forward Throw. Forward throw is an excellent kill option at higher percents, and I get many kills this way. Do this near the ledge, and try to keep it fresh.
-Edge guarding/gimping with forward air, neutral air or down air. This is where Dark Pit shines. His recovery options allow him to chase a foe to the blast zones, knock them into the blast zone or gimp them, and return with little problems. If you want to use Dark Pit, you must become very comfortable playing off stage. You also have to practice landing the spike on the down air. Edge guarding and gimping should be the way you secure most of your stocks. Use your back throw to set up edge guards.
Other notes:
-Your arrows are good for free damage, mind games and forcing a foe to come to you. There's quite a bit of cooldown on the move, so use them wisely. If you feel confident, you can try to gimp recoveries with them too.
-Electroshock Arm should be used to trade (super armor will usually come through for you) and knock opponents off for edgeguard shenanigains. I recommend keeping this move fresh, as it can score KOs near the ledge.

I'm more than happy to provide any more answers.

It seems I'll likely have a lot of self-destructs/get killed instead during off stage combat. Is this normal/to be expected when learning how to comfortably fight off-stage? Also, outside of throws for combos, what are Dark Pits main approaching moves? Is his Nair good for approaching, or is that awful?

 

[egaddmario]

recover a bit lower to ledge snap.

No, i mean, what recoveries can Pit screw over while standing on the stage- Little Mac is one of them, and i'm pretty sure Shulk can get neutered as well.

 

[Heracr055]

Practice makes perfect for off stage combat. I recommend going into training mode to practice recovery. Jump off the side, throw out different combinations of aerials with your regular jumps, and use Up B to come back to the ledge. It requires a lot of practice, but you really need to become fearless of fighting off stage.
You might have problems with foes using air dodges on the way back to the stage. Neutral air usually takes care of that.
On stage approaching:
-Dark Pit has an excellent dash attack (forgot to mention this last time), thanks to priority.
-Dark Pit's forward and down tilt have good range, even outranging marth and lucina's swords. A walking approach with these tilts is another good approach. Note that you can occasionally combo f tilt into itself at lower percentage.
-Dark Pit has 3 jumps. You can use this to avoid projectile spam games; just be ready to avoid aerials and other responses from the opponent.
-Dark Pit has the second best pivot grab with crazy range. I don't use it nearly as much as I should, but I'm sure it's essential for mixing up your approach.
-Using aerials as an approach is somewhat risky, because your foe can shield it, then grab you (happens to me all the time). The only moves and situations I feel comfortable with are as follows:
-Down air. The range on this move is good. Use it out of a short hop to avoid cool down when you land.
-Forward air. Learn the hotbox of this move, so you can maintain a safe distance if your opponent shields.
-Neutral air. This is a great option against spot dodgers.

So yeah, Dark Pit doesn't have the best approaches, but he has a few options that are reliable, especially the tilts.

 

[FiXalaS]

No, i mean, what recoveries can Pit screw over while standing on the stage- Little Mac is one of them, and i'm pretty sure Shulk can get neutered as well.

oh, sorry.

Yea, Shulk is one

most others ledge snap how/whereever under-ledge they are

maybe Mario if he goes over?

 

[Rags11211]

//One best approach is with arrows
(depending on what characters your opponents choices)

/grabbing you enemy is the best way to start dark pit's combos

//keeping your distance + pressuring is also another way to get in you opponent's head
yes pivot grabs are great but to a clever enemy it won't work much

//Air attacks are great but the landing lag is the issue. Remember dodging and spot dodging are great ways to get away from punishes (dodging is risky though...since your fighter is slow)

//Up B isn't really safe but trick your enemy and you have a lucky 30% chance for spiking them if they grab the edge twice

//////forward dash can throw people off...but it being shield can hurt you (from bad to worse)

safe distance = chance of win


//characters like ike, ness, and some others can be push when you jump out can push you opponent away from the edge.

I hope that helps I tried....

 

[Muffin!]

Recently been playing with Pit and I really like how he feels but I have a few questions.

My main is ZSS. Her primary weakness is shield/defensive play. I'm looking for a character that counters defensive and campy play well. Do you think Pit is a good choice? I know he's not really rush down, but I love his grab range, arrows are good, reflector is a bonus. Most of all I really like the range and disjointed hitboxes on his aerials since they seem to offer relatively safe approaches on shield. Just what I'm looking for. Would like to know from more experienced Pit players if my assessment is on or if I'm missing something.

In what situations should I be using his tilts? ZSS tilts have very specific uses, and Pit doesn't seem to be that way from what I can tell so I've realized that I don't really know how to use tilts in this game if they don't have a specific application.

Also is there frame data available for pit somewhere?

Edit: found the frame data

 

[notyourparadigm]

I'll give my two cents! Other folks may agree or disagree with me.

Recently been playing with Pit and I really like how he feels but I have a few questions.

My main is ZSS. Her primary weakness is shield/defensive play. I'm looking for a character that counters defensive and campy play well. Do you think Pit is a good choice? I know he's not really rush down, but I love his grab range, arrows are good, reflector is a bonus. Most of all I really like the range and disjointed hitboxes on his aerials since they seem to offer relatively safe approaches on shield. Just what I'm looking for. Would like to know from more experienced Pit players if my assessment is on or if I'm missing something.

I think you've got a decently solid grasp on Pit there-- he does have many good attributes, and in my opinion doesn't suffer that much defensively. He has respectable frame data and can escape combos, he's got a fantastic recovery (provided you know how to tech well), and great spacing tools. High tiers characters are still high tiers, of course, but in my opinion he doesn't have a big defensive weakness to be exploited.

The one place I think he can struggle is in offence-- specifically, securing kills. He is comfortable going offstage for gimps, and has good kill potential in unstaled fsmash, usmash, fthrow, upperdash arm, etc. But if an opponent is recovering smartly and you've staled your kill moves, you might find yourself in a pickle. It's one of the reasons why Dedede is a hard MU for Pit; his multiple jumps and up-special make him hard to gimp, and his... girth... means he doesn't die any too early. That leads to Rage and actual rage.

In what situations should I be using his tilts? ZSS tilts have very specific uses, and Pit doesn't seem to be that way from what I can tell so I've realized that I don't really know how to use tilts in this game if they don't have a specific application.

Personally, I use dtilt the most. It's fast coming out, has less cool-down than ftilt, and similar (the same?) horizontal reach as ftilt. I use it most when I expect my opponent to grab or dash grab, as it catches them off their feet, but still leaves me with enough time to react if I mis-read my opponent. The low cool-down and knockback also means it's a good move to start aerial strings. Like fair, it's a relatively safe move to throw out. Of course it won't hit anybody not on the ground.

Pivot ftilts are absolutely amazing, especially at catching rolls. Ftilt also comes out quite fast, and can be used as a quick punish, but its increased knockback compared to dtilt means that it becomes harder to combo out of after certain percentages, and it has more cool-down than dtilt. But it can kill with the sweet spot, right at the tip of the blades, and increased knockback sets up for edge guards.

Utilt though... I don't use that move very often, honestly. It's kind of weird, because I don't really see it having a use that usmash or a short-hopped aerial don't already provide. I suppose it's shorter cool-down makes it safer to whiff than usmash. I'd love to hear how other Pit mains use this move, if they do use it at all.

 

[Clel]

The best tip you can get is to not play pit/dark pit. But if you're really determined to play either of them go Pit. Pit's arrows are better, ftilt has stronger knockback, and forward+B is more consistent at killing. I myself was going to main dark pit, before ending up playing Pit, before dropping them both. I'll still try to help as much as I can, and I believe nearly all of this can apply to Dark Pit aswell in case you still want Dark Pit over normal Pit.

Pit's grab range is bad other than that his grab game is genius, really good damage racking and he has a kill fthrow though it kinda relies on rage. Dthrow>Uair, Dthrow>Fair, Dthrow>UpSmash were the main ones I kept in my head but I found Dthrow Fair most reliable, and I would Dthrow>Uair when I saw Fair wouldnt connect. Since his Fthrow can kill and his Fsmash punishes spot dodges there's a sweet 50/50 kill setup where if they block you get the grab or if they spot-dodge the second hit of your Fsmash connects. I really hated not having this on dash in, since you can't dash>Fsmash (gotta shield first which is clunky) so it takes away the mind game of dash grab or dash fsmash (You can replace Fsmash with Upsmash and see how that works). Since you can't dash into this setup you have to like be next to where they land and try to apply it there, where it's already risky if you lose the 50/50 but they can interrupt it with moves that are quicker than Fsmash and Grab.

Neutral game (zone 2) is pretty good. While Pit has a great dash attack it's unsafe, so with better positioning you can utilize Ftilt instead as a safer option (pretty much don't dash attack if ftilt could hit), retreating Ftilt is really safe too. Dtilt is a good option to keep them from getting in on you along with retreating fair. Fair can also be used as an approach since it auto cancels well but if they use a good character and read it they can blow it up. I think Fair can be used to maintain aerial dominance though, so if you read their jump you should be able to jump fair and outrange most other aerials. Forward+B is good for punishing just about everything if you read it due to having super armor and a lasting hitbox to catch rollers/spotdodgers (hmmm, maybe that's the move that can replace Fsmash in the Dash 50/50 setup), but a solid shielder will have the edge on you with damn near a punish of their choice.

So for the up-close game (Zone 1) Pit suffers a bit though he technically has outs for pressure. Such as Nair out of shield, his jab can be good if you don't multihit it which is easier to counterplay, retreating Ftilt can get you back into zone 2. Then you have Utilt which is nice but lacks in range and Forward+B is good yet again if you make the read. Pit's margin for error in Zone 1 is feels pretty tight though, and even if you get something you're generally just knocking them away so you can play more zone 2.

For kills we have the 50/50 kill setup which was already mentioned; Grab or Fsmash/Forward+B/Upsmash at this point lol. If you're good at landing Pit's fsmash it's REALLY nice and usually responsible for my lower percent kills. Dair spiking is something to get down and if you catch them with Fair offstage it can kill. My Pit sucked at landing Forward+B but it's probably his best kill option, Bair is really nice too but I couldn't land it to save my life. Personally my Pit would go into matches planning to get people to around 130%-150% and Fthrowing for the kill but looking back on it that was a bad plan, he needs time to rack damage and against rushdown characters with better kill options it's not rare to be dead by the time they hit 80% unless you're playing it very safe.

One final thing is that better players can definitely use Pit's recovery against him by jumping off and hitting it before you connect to the ledge and repeating that process until you die.

Sorry if I overdid it but there you go.

 

[egaddmario]

I'll give my two cents! Other folks may agree or disagree with me.


I think you've got a decently solid grasp on Pit there-- he does have many good attributes, and in my opinion doesn't suffer that much defensively. He has respectable frame data and can escape combos, he's got a fantastic recovery (provided you know how to tech well), and great spacing tools. High tiers characters are still high tiers, of course, but in my opinion he doesn't have a big defensive weakness to be exploited.

The one place I think he can struggle is in offence-- specifically, securing kills. He is comfortable going offstage for gimps, and has good kill potential in unstaled fsmash, usmash, fthrow, upperdash arm, etc. But if an opponent is recovering smartly and you've staled your kill moves, you might find yourself in a pickle. It's one of the reasons why Dedede is a hard MU for Pit; his multiple jumps and up-special make him hard to gimp, and his... girth... means he doesn't die any too early. That leads to Rage and actual rage.


Personally, I use dtilt the most. It's fast coming out, has less cool-down than ftilt, and similar (the same?) horizontal reach as ftilt. I use it most when I expect my opponent to grab or dash grab, as it catches them off their feet, but still leaves me with enough time to react if I mis-read my opponent. The low cool-down and knockback also means it's a good move to start aerial strings. Like fair, it's a relatively safe move to throw out. Of course it won't hit anybody not on the ground.

Pivot ftilts are absolutely amazing, especially at catching rolls. Ftilt also comes out quite fast, and can be used as a quick punish, but its increased knockback compared to dtilt means that it becomes harder to combo out of after certain percentages, and it has more cool-down than dtilt. But it can kill with the sweet spot, right at the tip of the blades, and increased knockback sets up for edge guards.

Utilt though... I don't use that move very often, honestly. It's kind of weird, because I don't really see it having a use that usmash or a short-hopped aerial don't already provide. I suppose it's shorter cool-down makes it safer to whiff than usmash. I'd love to hear how other Pit mains use this move, if they do use it at all.

I like using the U-tilt to catch rolls. Nothing a short-hopped aerial couldn't do, like you said, but it looks stylish.

 

[Benny P]

Hi, i'm not hugely compeitive in the Smash 4 community yet, but i want to talk about the Pitboys and their F-tilts. As we all know, the main differences between the pitboys are their arrows, their arm (side b) their f-tilt, and the fact Pittoo has a lil but of eyeliner. (seriously look closely at their eyes)

F-tilt for Pit has greater knockback, What can we do with D.Pit's lackluster Kb on this move?

Thanks all, i'm just wondering because i'm a fan of the pits and i want to use them both equally!

 

[Heracr055]

Hi Benny!
Dark Pit's knockback is indeed less than Pit's, especially if Pit lands a tipper (which can KO at higher percents). On the plus side for Dark Pit, Dark Pit's F-tilt can combo into itself at lower percents. This isn't always guaranteed, of course, but I do tend to get multiple hits on this move if the opponent doesn't react accordingly.
Of course, the primary function of this move is spacing, which is really crucial for the Pits. It has good range (even moreso than Marth and Lucina's blades), so it'll outrange most moves you encounter; thus, it's a good offensive and defensive option.
I think a benefit to Dark Pit's F-tilt is that the opponent isn't knocked back as much. This allows me to have a steady advance on a foe that is retreating from it or is hit from it, instead of just dashing in an attempt to chase. I find myself making wiser decisions from the walking stance than from running. Applying pressure is just the sort of strategy that causes foes to slip up and make a risky move that you can anticipate and punish. That's why I like Dark Pit's F-Tilt and I hope it makes sense. If this applies to Pit as well feel free to disregard this last note!

 

[Heracr055]

Clel's assessment is a pretty fair one (though I reject not using Pit/Dark Pit as the best tip). The Pits are really not about using rushdown options (such as Fox or Captain Falcon) or hitting with a few good hits to get the KO like heavies. The Pits are generally very well rounded characters that can play offensively or defensively. They fare well against a majority of the cast and aren't really at a major disadvantage against any one. There's very few characters that are like that in my experience. On the disadvantage side, you do really have to work for your kills. But in my mind, I rather work with a character that's tougher to use but that I personally like than somebody who's easy to exploit but I don't care for; that's why I'll never touch Diddy Kong or Zero Suit Samus.
If you really want to learn Dark Pit, there are several sources to look for, as well as practicing on For Glory and Training Mode. Things that I've found helpful include the following:
-Shofu's Dark Pit on For Glory video on Youtube
-Zero's Dark Pit on For Glory video on Youtube
-Zero (Sheik) versus Nairo (Dark Pit) on Youtube; Nairo's first battle in particular is amazing to watch and learn from
-Zult's "Who Wants Some?" guide on this site
-The various threads under the Dark Pit subforum; Two Sides of the Same Coin-Pit/Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion and Mirror of Truth- Dark Pit Q&A are good bets
-The matchup threads of other characters' subforums; read what they have to say about the Dark Pit (and Pit) MU
-Whatever reading and video material you can find outside of these

EDIT: If anybody can add any other useful resources to my list, please do!

 

[Sean de Lure]

ftilt does jab lock at lower percents, pretty sure pit's doesnt

 

[LancerStaff]

Recently been playing with Pit and I really like how he feels but I have a few questions.

My main is ZSS. Her primary weakness is shield/defensive play. I'm looking for a character that counters defensive and campy play well. Do you think Pit is a good choice? I know he's not really rush down, but I love his grab range, arrows are good, reflector is a bonus. Most of all I really like the range and disjointed hitboxes on his aerials since they seem to offer relatively safe approaches on shield. Just what I'm looking for. Would like to know from more experienced Pit players if my assessment is on or if I'm missing something.

In what situations should I be using his tilts? ZSS tilts have very specific uses, and Pit doesn't seem to be that way from what I can tell so I've realized that I don't really know how to use tilts in this game if they don't have a specific application.

Also is there frame data available for pit somewhere?

Edit: found the frame data

Pit isn't the best suited for offense, but he's good at dealing with defense and campy play. Anti-camp would be the word you're looking for, and that's something I'd say Pit does well. His arrows are highly versatile because you can control them. Characters like Link or Duck Hunt need to watch out for Pit's arrows because they can be aimed around their projectiles, and reflectors mean nothing to Pit because he can just reaim them at the last second so they won't hit him. Only characters you need to be particularly careful with your arrows are ones that convert it into something else like G&W and Ness or characters that can really move and guard it like Megaman and his custom Dspecial or Rosalina's Luma.

Pit's also good at dealing with shields, like you said. Pit's Fair has absurd range, is multihit move, and autocancels quickly, making it one of the best moves to pressure shields. Pit's grab combos are inescapable until 60% or so, Fthrow kills around 100% with rage, and Uthrow does a bunch of damage and launches them far enough to where you can fire a few arrows in that area between 60 and 100. If the opponent shields while you have an arrow drawn, you just got a free 3-6%. Pit can hold it indefinitely, so if the opponent unshields or rolls you just time it right and you've got them. If they keep the shield up, then they're going to get shield poked by an arrow. If they jump, then you just wait out the following attack or airdodge. His Fspecial also does tons of shield damage, but you need to rough it up a bit before it'll break one.

His tilts are pretty good. Dtilt is good for general spacing, Ftilt is much slower but has more power and reach, and being an Ftilt, can be done out of a pivot to catch rolls and approaches. Utilt is weird though... Unlike basically every other move of Pit's, it doesn't really have a unique role. It's an anti-air move like Usmash, a "get off me" move like his jab, and it's a good deal faster then both but at the cost of range and power. Kinda for when you don't know which to use, I guess... I like to use it to catch falling opponents since it feels more reliable then Usmash and comes out faster then an aerial.

I'd say he's a good choice if that's what you're looking for. He has very few terrible matchups, only ones we've come to agree on are Lucario and DDD, and his matchups against top-tiers are actually pretty good. Pit can really go well with just about any character as a secondary.

 

[Rucent]

For some reason whenever I go agianst Dark Pit I always become dumbfounded and forget everything I have learned in Smash. Is it the power of the edgy?

 

[Wa_Black]

I'm looking for gameplay footage of the leading Dark Pit players. I've seen Shofu, Zero and Nairo play, and I'm wondering who else to watch.

no one consistently plays him. Nairo does the most, but even he will switch it up with pit, zss, and some times robin.

 

[jaddasroots]

So from some of my fellow Pit/Dark Pit mains, they seem to agree that approaching can be a bit difficult, especially with projectile users. I have trouble with projectiles users period, but has anyone found a way to combat heavy projectiles users, such Toon Link or Samus?