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MultiVersus General Discussion - Shut Down planned for May 30.

GothicSlenderman

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Platform fighters are never going to succeed as a genre are they? We're just doomed to be in this cycle of seemingly making good momentum, one game fumbles the bag, "Smash Clone" "It's not similar enough to Smash", cycle continues. Being a platform fighter fan can be so tiring.

It's either that people seem to think that every game in this genre has to have its quality determined by Smash in some way or corporate greed getting in the way.

Honestly it's gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy Smash Bros. any more.
 

Mamboo07

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Platform fighters are never going to succeed as a genre are they? We're just doomed to be in this cycle of seemingly making good momentum, one game fumbles the bag, "Smash Clone" "It's not similar enough to Smash", cycle continues. Being a platform fighter fan can be so tiring.

It's either that people seem to think that every game in this genre has to have its quality determined by Smash in some way or corporate greed getting in the way.

Honestly it's gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy Smash Bros. any more.
Agree with this
 

Ivander

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Not if you try to sell it as a live service game
Live service alone isn't always the issue. The amount of monetization compared to some other live service games certainly played a role, but being live service certainly wasn't the issue.
 
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Opossum

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Platform fighters are never going to succeed as a genre are they? We're just doomed to be in this cycle of seemingly making good momentum, one game fumbles the bag, "Smash Clone" "It's not similar enough to Smash", cycle continues. Being a platform fighter fan can be so tiring.

It's either that people seem to think that every game in this genre has to have its quality determined by Smash in some way or corporate greed getting in the way.

Honestly it's gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy Smash Bros. any more.
I think the biggest thing with this is that fighting games as a whole are, relatively speaking, already a niche genre. And platform fighters are a sub-genre of said genre.

Smash really is the exception as far as wide appeal, not the rule. That being said, it does suck that as a whole Smash fans tend to be so defensive about Smash that they don't give other games in the genre a chance before slapping the "Smash Killer" term on it if they're a scorned Melee fan or "Smash Clone" term on it if they're an elitist modern Smash fan.
 

Faso115

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The funny thing is that this game numbers wise was doing better than NASB 2.

The difference is that the expectations from the parent company are different. Nickelodeon is not as greedy as WB games.

The fact that other bigger games under WB like MK1 had their stuff canned as well was the biggest warning that MVS wasn't long for this world either
 

Schnee117

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I eagerly await all the post-mortems from insiders and devs alike. There's a lot there that would make for interesting reading amidst a sea of KoF fans still salty about a game with no content or functioning online losing a Dorito's Pope Award, obnoxious Smash Fans (bit redundant there I know) and dumb twitter takes all around.

How much of this was truly Zaslav being The Worst and how much was PFG's hubris? There's a whole case study to be had here.
Why was Wicked Witch held off for so long? What's the deal with Pickle Rick? How far along were Ruby, Daffy and the other characters in the files? What was the rationale behind the gameplay changes? And so on.

The

I know it's not "mainstream" persay, and I don't play it myself, but isn't Rivals 2 really popular?
It's popular for an indie game with it's own original cast.
Which is kind of the other thing. Platform fighters are inherently shot in the foot with their rosters from the get go. If it's a crossover then there's the inevitable Smash comparisons and if it's original you have to do a ton of work to sell people on these new characters over playing the game with Mario and Sonic and Pikachu in it because you can't really say "well this has Garfield, some of the TMNT and Aang in it" or "Jason can fight Tom and Jerry and Superman and Shaggy" there.
 

CapitaineCrash

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The funny thing is that this game numbers wise was doing better than NASB 2.

The difference is that the expectations from the parent company are different. Nickelodeon is not as greedy as WB games.

The fact that other bigger games under WB like MK1 had their stuff canned as well was the biggest warning that MVS wasn't long for this world either
The difference isn't expectations, let's not act like Paramount and Nick are perfect. The differences is one is free to play and the other is buy to play.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I mean, personally I think they've been doing decently well by the roster over the last couple seasons. PPG, Samurai Jack, Beetlejuice, Raven and Marceline were all strong choices that people had been waiting for. If anything those characters not revitalizing interest toward the game was kind of the death knell that proved even adding long sought after characters wasn't going to make up for its well of other issues.

I think Lola is a lame way to end too, but the roster is far from the only or even greatest problem with that in mind. I think controversial characters could justify themselves through enticing gameplay and charisma, as they do in Smash. But when the gameplay is already unpopular and the means of getting characters feels so daunting as is, it's simply not worth the effort for most people.
Marceline was never a good choice if they wanted to bring people in. If you like Adventure Time, you were likely already playing. She was a community favorite, not someone who was going to bring people in.

The issue isn't that they didn't bring people in - Raven alone brought a lot of people - it's that WB and PFG made the asinine, greedy choice to make you pay to play them for over a month before you could unlock them for free. Some of the biggest characters they got were locked behind a paywall and it was always going to end like this unless they pulled their heads out of the ground and listened. They refused, and they got what they deserved because of it.

If everyone was free, and they made actual good cosmetics worth buying at a fair price, the money would have come. Marvel Rivals and Fortnite prove you only lock cosmetics behind a paywall.
 

Faso115

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For some reason, Marvel Rivals is an anomaly of a game. Did the IP alone made the devs take those chances with the generous monetization practice? Historically, Netease is the worst of the worst from what i've heard, but those were mobile games and that's its own can of worms.

Funnily enough, the monetization in Marvel Rivals is not that different from Overwatch. Skins cost the same and the BP progression is grindy and worse than in OW (hell, it's only progressed through special mission and dailies, similar to how it was in season 1 of MVS)
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Nickelodeon is not as greedy as WB games.
Only marginally. It's just that Nick's greed was behind the scenes while WB's is present to and directly effects players. Lack of VA is obvious, but also small fries compared to what MVS was pulling, and very likely rooted as much or more in GameMill. I'd say Nick's real problem for NASB was being protective of the characters - they saw this and flipped out.

The NASB2 story mode's dialog is quite awkwardly written around characters never namedropping one another, even Clockwork - who is omnipotent - doesn't namedrop anyone other than SpongeBob. Nora Wakeman - who he is working with during the events of the game - is just "the scientist" for instance, and the game ends with a really awkward "this is non-canon" mindwipe.
 
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LimeTH

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For some reason, Marvel Rivals is an anomaly of a game. Did the IP alone made the devs take those chances with the generous monetization practice? Historically, Netease is the worst of the worst from what i've heard, but those were mobile games and that's its own can of worms.

Funnily enough, the monetization in Marvel Rivals is not that different from Overwatch. Skins cost the same and the BP progression is grindy and worse than in OW (hell, it's only progressed through special mission and dailies, similar to how it was in season 1 of MVS)
Look, the most I know about Marvel Rivals is the egregious amounts of T&A the entire cast, women AND men alike, have.

Maybe if MVS was hornier, it would have survived? I dunno.

The NASB2 story mode's dialog is quite awkwardly written around characters never namedropping one another, even Clockwork - who is omnipotent - doesn't namedrop anyone other than SpongeBob. Nora Wakeman - who he is working with in the events of the game - is just "the scientist" for instance.
There is ONE line where Donatello namedrops Clockwork. Kinda. He calls him "Clocky".
 
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darkvortex

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I find there to be some interesting comparison when it comes to how fans treat roster picks. In Marvel Rivals, picks like Luna Snow and Jeff the Landshark could have easily been seen as "wasted spots" had the roster presented them differently, but that games presentation, story (let's be honest the MVS "story" is generic to the point of non existence ), and big trailers actually made people care about those characters. Hell people are excited at the prospect of picks like Modok and Trapster. Meanwhile picks like BG, Lola and Nubia are met with hate, and even picks like Beetlejuice are scrutinised. Obviously fighting games are gonna face this more than shooters, but I do think it shows that a strong presentation is one of the most important factors.
 
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Opossum

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I find there to be some interesting comparison when it comes to how fans treat roster picks. In Marvel Rivals, picks like Luna Snow and Jeff the Landshark could have easily been seen as "wasted spots" had the roster presented them differently, but that games presentation, story (let's be honest the MVS "story" is generic to the point of non existence ), and big trailers actually made people care about those characters. Meanwhile picks like BG, Lola and Nubia are met with hate, and even picks like Beetlejuice are scrutinised. Obviously fighting games are gonna face this more than shooters, but I do think it shows that a strong presentation is one of the most important factors.
The turn some people had against Betelgeuse is still so weird to me. Like...he's a genuinely popular character from a longstanding, proven IP. When he and Samurai Jack were announced live at EVO last year, that was the last time I remember the public actively cheering for the game instead of just wishing for its downfall.

People were so desperate for a boogeyman that they went for the actual boogeyman.
 

Capybara Gaming

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For some reason, Marvel Rivals is an anomaly of a game. Did the IP alone made the devs take those chances with the generous monetization practice? Historically, Netease is the worst of the worst from what i've heard, but those were mobile games and that's its own can of worms.

Funnily enough, the monetization in Marvel Rivals is not that different from Overwatch. Skins cost the same and the BP progression is grindy and worse than in OW (hell, it's only progressed through special mission and dailies, similar to how it was in season 1 of MVS)
It's really not that terrible, but the real winner is the Battle Passes never going away so you can work on them in your own time. It may not seem like much but that's a huge deal; grinding passes is miserable for adults in a set time limit.
 

LimeTH

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I find there to be some interesting comparison when it comes to how fans treat roster picks. In Marvel Rivals, picks like Luna Snow and Jeff the Landshark could have easily been seen as "wasted spots" had the roster presented them differently, but that games presentation, story (let's be honest the MVS "story" is generic to the point of non existence ), and big trailers actually made people care about those characters. Meanwhile picks like BG, Lola and Nubia are met with hate, and even picks like Beetlejuice are scrutinised. Obviously fighting games are gonna face this more than shooters, but I do think it shows that a strong presentation is one of the most important factors.
That was always going to be a problem no matter who they put in. MVS's playerbase was so hostile to every addition no matter who it was, to where I had no idea who anyone actually wanted besides Daffy and Scooby for the necessity of having them.

I saw people acting like the goddamn Powerpuff Girls were a "filler choice" like are you kidding me?
 

Faso115

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I find there to be some interesting comparison when it comes to how fans treat roster picks. In Marvel Rivals, picks like Luna Snow and Jeff the Landshark could have easily been seen as "wasted spots" had the roster presented them differently, but that games presentation, story (let's be honest the MVS "story" is generic to the point of non existence ), and big trailers actually made people care about those characters. Hell people are excited a true prospect of picks like Modok and Trapster. Meanwhile picks like BG, Lola and Nubia are met with hate, and even picks like Beetlejuice are scrutinised. Obviously fighting games are gonna face this more than shooters, but I do think it shows that a strong presentation is one of the most important factors.
Rivals is about the Marvel universe exclusively. As a hero shooter they need to find heroes that fit that gameplay formula and it's clear they struggle to come up with support character cause that's the role they have most unusual heroes, like the aforementioned Jeff and Luna

Meanwhile MVS is a WB crossover. WB has a huge catalogue and a lot of people have different needs and wants. Then the fact they kept making safe or unusual chocies didn't exactly help. Add to the fact that platform fighters fans are very...demanding with their character choices, lest i remind you the smash speculation scene
 

MBRedboy31

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Why can’t people just enjoy playing as characters with interesting movesets? Specific characters from existing media this, specific characters from existing media that, I’m tired of it.

Admittedly, maybe people would be more open to trying diverse movesets if, you know, characters were easily accessible…
 

SneakyLink

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I feel like the instant Catwoman returned to Fortnite the writing was on the wall for Multiversus. Especially since a known Fortnite leaker has confirmed that WB stopped doing Fortnite collabs because of Multiversus (For context, the last DC collab pre Multiversus launch was December 2023). With Multiversus gone, Fortnite collabs are back on the table.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Why can’t people just enjoy playing as characters with interesting movesets? Specific characters from existing media this, specific characters from existing media that, I’m tired of it.

Admittedly, maybe people would be more open to trying diverse movesets if, you know, characters were easily accessible…
Man, I have tried so many times to convince the NASB thread to play Slap City...
 

Faso115

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I feel like the instant Catwoman returned to Fortnite the writing was on the wall for Multiversus. Especially since a known Fortnite leaker has confirmed that WB stopped doing Fortnite collabs because of Multiversus (For context, the last DC collab pre Multiversus launch was December 2023). With Multiversus gone, Fortnite collabs are back on the table.
Context here

And i don't know how to feel about this. You mean to tell me WB expected MVS to make fortnite money? I admire the faith but that was stupid to halt any collaboration
 
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  • Unnecessarily redoes the gameplay instead of building off the core appeal
  • Refused to address community complaints, instead throws out half baked "we're COOKING guys, just trust the process"
  • Spends several months haphazardly pushing in out of place mechanics like teching and shields for and from Smash players instead of listening to the well articulated suggestions instead. Which included bare minimum **** like fixing all of the buggy performances and glitches.
  • None of those people they tried to appeal to with these dumb mechanics comes back, MVS alienates so many players and immediately has its last season
It's like clockwork lmao. It's a little frustrating this is the end since I was one of the ones that defended and somewhat enjoyed Relaunch and Multiversus as a whole but I knew this game would have no future if they forfeited their own vision and identity. Shows they had no idea what they were doing in the end.
 
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Schnee117

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I feel like the instant Catwoman returned to Fortnite the writing was on the wall for Multiversus. Especially since a known Fortnite leaker has confirmed that WB stopped doing Fortnite collabs because of Multiversus (For context, the last DC collab pre Multiversus launch was December 2023). With Multiversus gone, Fortnite collabs are back on the table.
This is really the cherry on top of it all.
They missed out on a boatload of money licensing stuff out for skins in the most popular game in the world right now just because they thought it'd compete with their fighting game as if they hadn't tanked a ton of goodwill from the first shutdown.

WB suits have some truly ****ing awful business sense lmao
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Fortnite had 7 years in the oven between teaser trailer and public launch and completely changed trajectory in that time (it was originally a zombie game with a 90s ugly-cartoon style), Epic had to reassure fans it was even still in development at one point - the big takeaway corpos should've gotten was "give games time, success comes slow"
 
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Louie G.

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It's either that people seem to think that every game in this genre has to have its quality determined by Smash in some way or corporate greed getting in the way.
Honestly, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but an issue I have is that a lot of platform fighters end up intentionally structuring themselves more like Smash and shedding off some of what makes them stand out. This is an issue I personally have with the genre and I kind of end up groaning whenever I see games add say, a Smash shielding system added when they didn't have one before. Which I recall Multiversus doing a few months ago.

I'm disappointed that Multiversus seemed to largely stop prominently promoting its strongest hook, its team-based gameplay. Even within that second trailer, where the first focused on fun ways for the characters to assist and bounce off one another (sometimes literally), the second had more instances of everyone just taking turns. Where the beta sought to add characters that complimented one another, the official release seemed to be more concerned with its standalone fighters. Not inherently a problem, but that was an indication to me that the focus had shifted.

I'm sure someone who played the game more avidly than I did can tell me this part never really went away, and I'm curious to hear a more informed viewpoint. But I would have honestly doubled down on it further, and stressed all the ways Multiversus' unique gameplay style offers opportunities that Smash cannot. It's only natural that a big mascot crossover platfighter will invite Smash comparisons, and it's somewhat naive to imagine that Smash Ultimate isn't the basis for games like this and NASB existing in the first place. But say, having support oriented characters felt like something outside the bounds of Smash, and the team proceeded to kind of abandon that over time - wasn't the support class entirely scrubbed? And most newcomers, if I recall, were assassins and bruisers.

So I dunno, at that point it reads to most people as simply Smash with WB characters. And I don't think I can really blame anyone for thinking that.

Admittedly, maybe people would be more open to trying diverse movesets if, you know, characters were easily accessible…
This is how I feel about it too, because if Smash is any indication most people are willing to expose themselves to unfamiliar characters with fun creative movesets if they're dealt them. In fact, Smash proves that people are even willing to pay money for them since that trust has already been built. But Smash is able to sustain a consistent playerbase off a roster of like 70 characters available out of the box, and Multiversus... not so much.

If you're going to put in all that time, or fork over that kind of money to play as a character then in a game like Multiversus I think it's generally fair to have higher standards for who and what you're investing in.
 
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LimeTH

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So what happened to the whole “last ditch effort” thing? Was that just a rumor or did they decide to cut their losses knowing a season featuring two of WB’s most historically reviled characters wasn’t going to help them?

Aquaman and Lola Bunny. Oh my god. You might as well have thrown in Scrappy Doo while you’re at it.
 

Louie G.

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Aquaman and Lola Bunny. Oh my god. You might as well have thrown in Scrappy Doo while you’re at it.
I think your perception of Aquaman here is a little ignorant. He's not "reviled" just because Family Guy and Robot Chicken made jokes about water powers being lame for 20 years. The last decade has been pretty good at mending his reputation with a couple mega blockbuster movies under his belt.

There's nothing wrong with him being here, I just think he should have come way sooner.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I think your perception of Aquaman here is a little ignorant. He's not "reviled" just because Family Guy and Robot Chicken made jokes about water powers being lame for 20 years. The last decade has been pretty good at mending his reputation with a couple mega blockbuster movies under his belt.

There's nothing wrong with him being here, I just think he should have come way sooner.
It's really just Super Friends' Aquaman that's really considered a lame-o. People are fine with him elsewhere, even before recent movies.
 

Capybara Gaming

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Why can’t people just enjoy playing as characters with interesting movesets? Specific characters from existing media this, specific characters from existing media that, I’m tired of it.

Admittedly, maybe people would be more open to trying diverse movesets if, you know, characters were easily accessible…
Because that's not how most people approach it. The point of a crossover is having your favorite characters interact and meet when they normally wouldn't.

Of course, the movesets in Multiversus are pretty garbage more often than not so it doesn't really matter
 

Mamboo07

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The roster itself; especially the beta version had some sour notes:
  • Heavy focus on more obscure or unexpected characters
  • Less important characters getting in over characters who had ACTUAL fan demand behind them or SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYABLE in the first place!
    • (Examples of this include Taz and Marvin getting in before FREAKING Daffy Duck, Black Adam being picked over far more iconic DC heroes such as the Flash or Green Lantern)
Now that this game is shutting down and ending, say goodbye to characters you want that'll never be playable.
 

Capybara Gaming

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  • Unnecessarily redoes the gameplay instead of building off the core appeal
  • Refused to address community complaints, instead throws out half baked "we're COOKING guys, just trust the process"
  • Spends several months haphazardly pushing in out of place mechanics like teching and shields for and from Smash players instead of listening to the well articulated suggestions instead. Which included bare minimum **** like fixing all of the buggy performances and glitches.
  • None of those people they tried to appeal to with these dumb mechanics comes back, MVS alienates so many players and immediately has its last season
It's like clockwork lmao. It's a little frustrating this is the end since I was one of the ones that defended and somewhat enjoyed Relaunch and Multiversus as a whole but I knew this game would have no future if they forfeited their own vision and identity. Shows they had no idea what they were doing in the end.
Stop blaming the game tanking on mechanics you didn't like. And even if you didn't like shields, teching absolutely was necessary because the amount of time players don't have control of their character, in any type of game, should be as minimal as possible.

The game tanked because of blatant greed. That's it.

So what happened to the whole “last ditch effort” thing? Was that just a rumor or did they decide to cut their losses knowing a season featuring two of WB’s most historically reviled characters wasn’t going to help them?

Aquaman and Lola Bunny. Oh my god. You might as well have thrown in Scrappy Doo while you’re at it.
I assume you're being sarcastic but in case you aren't, since when is Lola reviled? She awakened a generation of furries and generally is one of the more popular Looney Tunes since her creation.
 
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LimeTH

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Okay, reviled was a bad word. More like... contentious or something. They're base breaking characters.

I think your perception of Aquaman here is a little ignorant. He's not "reviled" just because Family Guy and Robot Chicken made jokes about water powers being lame for 20 years. The last decade has been pretty good at mending his reputation with a couple mega blockbuster movies under his belt.

There's nothing wrong with him being here, I just think he should have come way sooner.
It's not so much that I think Aquaman doesn't deserve to be there, it's just when you take his reputation as the poster boy for lame superheroes (some of which still lingers even with the work they've done) and pair that with Lola Bunny, who has always been a controversial character who has been floundering for 20 years, it makes for a very underwhelming and almost tone deaf set of final characters. If Aquaman and Lola weren't closing the entire game out before it's wiped from existence, their addition wouldn't even be a problem to me.

I assume you're being sarcastic but in case you aren't, since when is Lola reviled? She awakened a generation of furries and generally is one of the more popular Looney Tunes since her creation.
Look, I like Lola, but I've been around long enough to know that she was not all that well liked by the Looney Tunes and animation fandoms at large for a really long time, mostly because she wasn't funny and didn't really add anything to the plot of Space Jam. She's very much a "love her or hate her" character with very little in between. And then when they brought her back for The Looney Tunes Show, her being an entirely different character brought in a new set of distaste from people who did like her in Space Jam. She's always had that sort of thing follow her around.
 
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RileyXY1

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Only marginally. It's just that Nick's greed was behind the scenes while WB's is present to and directly effects players. Lack of VA is obvious, but also small fries compared to what MVS was pulling, and very likely rooted as much or more in GameMill. I'd say Nick's real problem for NASB was being protective of the characters - they saw this and flipped out.

The NASB2 story mode's dialog is quite awkwardly written around characters never namedropping one another, even Clockwork - who is omnipotent - doesn't namedrop anyone other than SpongeBob. Nora Wakeman - who he is working with during the events of the game - is just "the scientist" for instance, and the game ends with a really awkward "this is non-canon" mindwipe.
There's also the fact that characters only have special interactions with NPCs, corrupted fighters, and bosses if they came from the same series. Any cross series combos will just result in generic dialogue that is nothing special.
 
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Stop blaming the game tanking on mechanics you didn't like. And even if you didn't like shields, teching absolutely was necessary because the amount of time players don't have control of their character, in any type of game, should be as minimal as possible.

The game tanked because of blatant greed. That's it.
Nah, I got validated lol. Greed is definitely a major factor but also it's failure to maintain a community and fix bare minimum stuff solidified its death and objectively stunted its growth. Countless players who tanked through the horrible practices left, numerous people that bought character tickets (thus weren't targeted by fighter road) still chose to leave. It kept adding and adding on top of the pile instead of addressing the core as many leftover players are calling out right this very moment. Them adding mechanics instead of prioritizing fixes caused more bugs and issues.

There was a decent period where you could die early from auto teching bugs. You still get looped from auto teching. Shields are still invisible. Band aid fixes like teching and shields were not it, the game wasn't designed or ready for big changes like those as I said from the beginning.

Multiversus alienated so many people with its consistent unnecessary changes as soon as the game launched.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Because that's not how most people approach it. The point of a crossover is having your favorite characters interact and meet when they normally wouldn't.

Of course, the movesets in Multiversus are pretty garbage more often than not so it doesn't really matter
Me, the guy who basically only started playing Smash at all as a kid because he saw this image on the site:
and thought it looked funny:
 
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