MultiVersus General Discussion

[Kirby Dragons]

It would take a lot for Cartoon Network to be overrepresented. I don't think they should ever stop adding characters from it, but they just need to keep mixing things up with characters like Jason, Smith, and Beetlejuice.

 

[ivanlerma]

i don't want CN characters to be left out due to overrepresentation, i get where you guys are coming from though it's better to keep balancing the game with all things warner while also leaving cartoon network in there.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

My CN wants are pretty standard. Ben, who's the most requested character, Marceline, who's coming soon, and Mordecai and Rigby, who are guaranteed if the game keeps going. After them, I'd want more Ben 10 characters. They aren't necessities, but they'd at least be a lot easier to implement than Ben.

 

[Wademan94]

Ben definitely seems like he’d be one of the most difficult characters to implement though he’d be perfect fit for a stance change character who’s aliens represent different classes

 

[Faso115]

Ben might be the first multiclass character we could see if they want to go there

 

[LimeTH]

Ben might be the first multiclass character we could see if they want to go there

I can see them making him a Mage. That's usually where the really "grab-bag" characters go.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Ben definitely seems like he’d be one of the most difficult characters to implement though he’d be perfect fit for a stance change character who’s aliens represent different classes

Please no. I just want him to be end of series OV Ben who can quickly switch between all his aliens and each move is a different alien.

Please don't make him like Pokemon Trainer and PLEASE don't have it be 10 year old Classic Ben.

 

[Opossum]

Please no. I just want him to be end of series OV Ben who can quickly switch between all his aliens and each move is a different alien.

Please don't make him like Pokemon Trainer and PLEASE don't have it be 10 year old Classic Ben.

Him switching for literally every move would make him look like an absolute mess in practice. That's a ton of detailed models appearing on screen for, essentially, like two seconds each.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Him switching for literally every move would make him look like an absolute mess in practice. That's a ton of detailed models appearing on screen for, essentially, like two seconds each.

He wouldn’t switch back to Ben after each attack finishes. I think that would give it a little more wiggle room.

 

[Opossum]

He wouldn’t switch back to Ben after each attack finishes. I think that would give it a little more wiggle room.

Honestly, if I'm understanding you correctly, that makes it even worse. Far worse.

That means EVERY alien would then need multiple animations like running and jumping, all to just disappear when a move that isn't their specific mapped move is used. If we take your idea, and make EVERY attack input a different alien, that would mean that there would be a maximum of thirteen aliens in the moveset (four ground normals, four ground specials, four aerial normals, four aerial specials, dash attack), plus Ben himself (presumably, going by your own posts). And that's assuming that multihit attacks like a grounded normal side attack don't transform him into different aliens for each hit.

For what you're now suggesting, every one of those fourteen models would need full fighter animations. Let's say Ben uses his charged grounded normal attack, where he transforms into Cannonbolt and performs a huge body slam on the ground, and, like you said, he stays as Cannonbolt until another move is used. Cannonbolt would need animations for running, jumping, wall clinging, emotes, victory poses, idle poses, hit stun poses, sleeping (we know that the Wicked Witch has a sleep mechanic from beta datamines), riding around in a little car for that one rift, and likely many more that I forgot. And he'd need an entire set of voice lines as well. And all of that would be so he could appear in Ben's grounded down normal.

And they'd need to do all of that for fourteen different models that can only do one attack each. That sounds like an absolute nightmare to develop and to play. Ben is much better off just being a Pokémon Trainer-styled character who can switch between a smaller group of aliens. Maybe one for each class. Four Arms for Bruiser, Heat Blast for Mage, Cannonbolt for Tank, and XLR8 for Assassin.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Let's just cut the middle man and add Humongousaur solo.

We all know Ben would just pick him anyway.

 

[Faso115]

Honestly, i think Ben is one of those characters that might need more than one slot. His potential is so vast that the simple movesets MVS usually has might not do him justice.

I'll probably split him into kid and alien force, that seems to be the versions people generally want (i think people prefer Alien Force? I don't remember why)

 

[osby]

They should make Ben 10 a transforming character but regardless of who you choose, there's a chance you'll get stuck with Grey Matter for the rest of the stock.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Honestly, if I'm understanding you correctly, that makes it even worse. Far worse.

That means EVERY alien would then need multiple animations like running and jumping, all to just disappear when a move that isn't their specific mapped move is used. If we take your idea, and make EVERY attack input a different alien, that would mean that there would be a maximum of thirteen aliens in the moveset (four ground normals, four ground specials, four aerial normals, four aerial specials, dash attack), plus Ben himself (presumably, going by your own posts). And that's assuming that multihit attacks like a grounded normal side attack don't transform him into different aliens for each hit.

For what you're now suggesting, every one of those fourteen models would need full fighter animations. Let's say Ben uses his charged grounded normal attack, where he transforms into Cannonbolt and performs a huge body slam on the ground, and, like you said, he stays as Cannonbolt until another move is used. Cannonbolt would need animations for running, jumping, wall clinging, emotes, victory poses, idle poses, hit stun poses, sleeping (we know that the Wicked Witch has a sleep mechanic from beta datamines), riding around in a little car for that one rift, and likely many more that I forgot. And he'd need an entire set of voice lines as well. And all of that would be so he could appear in Ben's grounded down normal.

And they'd need to do all of that for fourteen different models that can only do one attack each. That sounds like an absolute nightmare to develop and to play. Ben is much better off just being a Pokémon Trainer-styled character who can switch between a smaller group of aliens. Maybe one for each class. Four Arms for Bruiser, Heat Blast for Mage, Cannonbolt for Tank, and XLR8 for Assassin.

So it’s a lot of work? Like, that’s all you’re telling me. In my opinion that work would be worth it but I’m guessing you’re assumption is that it’s not.

 

[Opossum]

So it’s a lot of work? Like, that’s all you’re telling me. In my opinion that work would be worth it but I’m guessing you’re assumption is that it’s not.

It's a ton of work for an incredibly low payoff, or even a detrimental one, given that this character would seem like an absolute mess to actually play. Frequent on-the-fly transformations would only worsen this game's infamous hitbox readability issues.

That particular way of incorporating Ben would 100% be a major talking point in all of the inevitable post-shutdown "What went wrong with Multiversus?" video essays.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

It's a ton of work for an incredibly low payoff, or even a detrimental one, given that this character would seem like an absolute mess to actually play. Frequent on-the-fly transformations would only worsen this game's infamous hitbox readability issues.

That particular way of incorporating Ben would 100% be a major talking point in all of the inevitable post-shutdown "What went wrong with Multiversus?" video essays.

Ok. But it would make him true to how he fights and allow for us to actually see more aliens then just like, 4 ones from classic.

 

[Opossum]

Ok. But it would make him true to how he fights and allow for us to actually see more aliens then just like, 4 ones from classic.

Adaptation requires concession in order to better fit the format. Gizmo and Stripe should instantly burst into flame and die whenever they're on an outdoor stage in the daytime, while Superman should be outright immune to most attacks. But because this is a fighting game, concessions are made to bring them in line with other characters.

Development time and cost/benefit weighing are things to consider. Player readability is incredibly important. So Ben must work within those confines.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that Ben might just be too complex of a character to include.

 

[Faso115]

I think that Ben might just be too complex of a character to include.

Doesn't mean that the character is impossible to adapt, but people expect a Steve-like complex character in a platform fighter that's very simplified.

They might try to do Ben for sure, he's easily one of the most requested, but the execution of the character is probably one of the toughest ones to get around due to how he works. Which is why i still think 2 bens might be the best course of action.

Or just the one ben, i think another discussion is WHICH Ben we actually wanna see in the game

 

[osby]

Ok. But it would make him true to how he fights and allow for us to actually see more aliens then just like, 4 ones from classic.

On the other hand, quality vs quantity. Playing as a few aliens with full movesets is more fun than just relegating a ton of them to glorified move animations.

Plus... Ben rarely switches aliens on the fly for singular attacks. That's not necessarily true of how he fights.

 

[LimeTH]

Or just the one ben, i think another discussion is WHICH Ben we actually wanna see in the game

Maybe treating it like the DC characters with some kind of composite Ben with all the different specific Bens as skins would be cool.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Look. This game is gonna be the most mainstream exposure Ben has had in years. And I just want it to ben the Ben that I know and love from the end of his story (post-omniverse). Not the Ben that non-fans kinda remember from when they saw an episode or two of classic when they were kids.

 

[osby]

Look. This game is gonna be the most mainstream exposure Ben has had in years. And I just want it to ben the Ben that I know and love from the end of his story (post-omniverse). Not the Ben that non-fans kinda remember from when they saw an episode or two of classic when they were kids.

There's really no need to pull the "you're not a real fan if you disagree with me" card here.

You can just say you prefer Omniverse and move on.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

There's really no need to pull the "you're not a real fan if you disagree with me" card here.

You can just say you prefer Omniverse and move on.

Heck I don’t even prefer Omniverse. If anything my favorite was UAF. But in the end, all four original shows are one continuity telling the story of one character. A character that’s meant a lot to me over the years. I want him at the end of his journey, even if I have mixed feelings about how it ended. I want to see the same Ben who went through everything I saw him go through. Who has all the powers I saw him get by the end. Instead of him at the beginning of his journey with his second most annoying personality and less than a quarter of his feats, transformations, and powers. And it really frustrates me when people assume all I want as a fan is for classic to show up, say a few catchphrases, be an arrogant little brat, and use like 4 of his most common (and boring) aliens just because they debuted in the first season of the show. Heck that’s what the people making the show thought we wanted by the end. It was annoying then, it was annoying when Death Battle did it, it was annoying when the reboot did it, and it will be annoying any time they decide to do it.

 

[Kirbeh]

Making Ben into a more complex animation wise just sounds like a bad idea.

style would be acceptable at least.

Overall though, I think selecting a handful of his aliens and just making them individual characters feels like the best way to properly represent them without worrying about limiting their movesets or having to balance them against each other as a unit.

Pick 3 or 4 eras and give each an alien.

Classic could probably do any of Heatblast, Four Arms or Diamond Head.

Humongousaur got mentioned, and I actually think it'd be pretty interesting if they made his size changing into an actual mechanic. He could have the option of being another giant character like IG. Or they could just default to that too.

Maybe over time make it a literal Ben 10 by having ten on the roster.

Ben could be a fighting game roster all by himself so there are just too many choices to be able to include all of them. And then there are still other characters in the series that people would want to see.

I'd personally be just as excited for Vilgax or classic transformed Kevin, maybe skirt around adding too many Bens by using other members of a species like Tetrax.

 

[Wademan94]

Cannonbolt would make for a perfect Tank character

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I'm not gonna lie, making multiple different aliens a bunch of character spots in a game that's already struggling to add basic characters in a timely manner sounds very frustrating. 2 characters a season btw and we don't even have Wicked Witch or Scooby Doo in the game. That's how far behind MVS is. Fans having to wait for their diverse favorites only to deal with Ben 10 aliens getting dedicated seasonal spots would really suck lmao.

Especially if, for example, Ben 10 himself doesn't show up in the game but the only Ben10 representation for months if not over a year is just one of his alien forms and nothing else. I don't see the vast majority really winning in that scenario.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I'm not gonna lie, making multiple different aliens a bunch of character spots in a game that's already struggling to add basic characters in a timely manner sounds very frustrating. 2 characters a season btw and we don't even have Wicked Witch or Scooby Doo in the game. That's how far behind MVS is. Fans having to wait for their diverse favorites only to deal with Ben 10 aliens getting dedicated seasonal spots would really suck lmao.

Especially if, for example, Ben 10 himself doesn't show up in the game but the only Ben10 representation for months if not over a year is just one of his alien forms and nothing else. I don't see the vast majority really winning in that scenario.

Yeah and I also don't like this idea because, aside maybe from one or 2 exceptions, Ben 10 aliens are actually not that interesting on their own. The whole point of the character is how he cool it is that he can mismatch different powers for different situation. It's like if they add Beast boy, but he can only transform in one animal. It just feels pointless to even bother adding the character at all imo if that's the direction they're taking.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Plus... Ben rarely switches aliens on the fly for singular attacks. That's not necessarily true of how he fights.

Overall though, I think selecting a handful of his aliens and just making them individual characters feels like the best way to properly represent them without worrying about limiting their movesets or having to balance them against each other as a unit.

But I mean, Powerpuff Girls aren't stacked together nearly as much as they were in MVS. They split up often or win/get beat individually throughout the show's fights. In fact, the girls had a really good argument to be standalone with really fun and diverse kits since multiple seasons of the show went out of its way to give them iconic moments, abilities and attacks they could've referenced. With all 3 girls having distinct large fanbases of their own. Even Punchtime Explosion made them separate.

Ben 10 transforming for each attack or something wouldn't be completely off base. It wouldn't be any different than the PPG getting massively simplified for the sake of moveset convenience, a lot of powers and attacks got left behind so other franchises/characters could get their shine.

At the absolute most, we could get two different Ben 10s that use all kinds of different aliens. But dedicated spots for an alien would be ****ing stupid. It's not fair to Blossom, Bubbles, Buttercup and all the characters waiting for their turn if Ben 10 gets to hog spots and resources for individual aliens. Not even the main characters themselves just "alien forms".

 

[Wademan94]

Whatever the case, considering the amount of work he’d take regardless of whatever direction they go with him, it’s likely he probably won’t be added to the game for a long while taking that work into consideration

 

[Kirby Dragons]

However they choose to do Ben, it's gonna take a lot more work than any other character. I imagine the devs are gradually working on him, and being careful not to do much at a time.

 

[Kirbeh]

Ignore this. Finger slipped halfway through my response. Will get back to it later.

 

[LimeTH]

Pokemon Trainer style definitely feels like it'd be the best way to handle Ben 10. Though the question is if Ben himself, the human form, would actually be present during gameplay, or if he would only appear during certain animations. Like how would skins work with this sort of character?

But I mean, Powerpuff Girls aren't stacked together nearly as much as they were in MVS. They split up often or win/get beat individually throughout the show's fights. In fact, the girls had a really good argument to be standalone with really fun and diverse kits since multiple seasons of the show went out of its way to give them iconic moments, abilities and attacks they could've referenced. With all 3 girls having distinct large fanbases of their own. Even Punchtime Explosion made them separate.

This burns my ass so much because not only does the moveset they wound up with not even have the decency to be good or fun, but with them being all in one slot and the game's utterly ridiculous handling of Mojo Jojo, who would have been the logical second choice, I straight up don't believe we're getting any more PPG characters at all, which stings that much more now that we're about to get our fourth Adventure Time character (and I say this as a day one AT lover).
I thought the best way to really give PPG the representation it deserved in a way that let it be equal to the other CN reps WAS to let Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup be their own slots, and why wouldn't they be? They've been separate in every other fighting game appearance they've ever made. They limited the absolute hell out of themselves by doing this instead.
The way they did PPG was basically my worst case scenario and it lived up to my incredibly dour expectations. It's literally everything I was worried about happening to the Angry Beavers made manifest and PPG is a MUCH bigger and more iconic show so it feels like more of a crime.
This is why I mostly hate all in one characters in modern platfighters and I hope we don't see any more unless there's a really good reason like with Tom and Jerry or Ben 10.

 

[Opossum]

Pokemon Trainer style definitely feels like it'd be the best way to handle Ben 10. Though the question is if Ben himself, the human form, would actually be present during gameplay, or if he would only appear during certain animations. Like how would skins work with this sort of character?



This burns my ass so much because not only does the moveset they wound up with not even have the decency to be good or fun, but with them being all in one slot and the game's utterly ridiculous handling of Mojo Jojo, who would have been the logical second choice, I straight up don't believe we're getting any more PPG characters at all, which stings that much more now that we're about to get our fourth Adventure Time character (and I say this as a day one AT lover).
I thought the best way to really give PPG the representation it deserved in a way that let it be equal to the other CN reps WAS to let Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup be their own slots, and why wouldn't they be? They've been separate in every other fighting game appearance they've ever made. They limited the absolute hell out of themselves by doing this instead.
The way they did PPG was basically my worst case scenario and it lived up to my incredibly dour expectations. It's literally everything I was worried about happening to the Angry Beavers made manifest and PPG is a MUCH bigger and more iconic show so it feels like more of a crime.
This is why I hate all in one characters in modern platfighters and I hope we don't see any more unless there's a really good reason like with Tom and Jerry or Ben 10.

Honestly it makes me really nervous about how the Animaniacs might be handled. Not even just the Warners, but the entire cast of the show as a whole since like, outside of Slappy, literally all of the main characters scream "shove them into a duo/trio" lol.

 

[LimeTH]

Honestly it makes me really nervous about how the Animaniacs might be handled. Not even just the Warners, but the entire cast of the show as a whole since like, outside of Slappy, literally all of the main characters scream "shove them into a duo/trio" lol.

I don't want them to handle it like that either, but at least with Animaniacs, they aren't wasting the grand majority of an IP's potential characters by cramming them all in one then turning the rest of them into dumbass cameos.

I'll give them Pinky and the Brain. That would be the one that would make the most amount of sense to put together like that. Put them in the big human suit but open it up around the neck more so there's a control pit they can be sticking out of, like Tron in MvC.

HOWEVER I'd HOPE if they do the Warners as an all in one, they handle it like Pokemon Trainer, or even like Angry Beavers where some moves call on the other siblings as assists. If they do anything like how they did the PPG, I'm going to scream. I can't even imagine how much of a pain in the ass that would be to play as,

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Pokemon Trainer style definitely feels like it'd be the best way to handle Ben 10. Though the question is if Ben himself, the human form, would actually be present during gameplay, or if he would only appear during certain animations. Like how would skins work with this sort of character?



This burns my ass so much because not only does the moveset they wound up with not even have the decency to be good or fun, but with them being all in one slot and the game's utterly ridiculous handling of Mojo Jojo, who would have been the logical second choice, I straight up don't believe we're getting any more PPG characters at all, which stings that much more now that we're about to get our fourth Adventure Time character (and I say this as a day one AT lover).
I thought the best way to really give PPG the representation it deserved in a way that let it be equal to the other CN reps WAS to let Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup be their own slots, and why wouldn't they be? They've been separate in every other fighting game appearance they've ever made. They limited the absolute hell out of themselves by doing this instead.
The way they did PPG was basically my worst case scenario and it lived up to my incredibly dour expectations. It's literally everything I was worried about happening to the Angry Beavers made manifest and PPG is a MUCH bigger and more iconic show so it feels like more of a crime.
This is why I mostly hate all in one characters in modern platfighters and I hope we don't see any more unless there's a really good reason like with Tom and Jerry or Ben 10.

I'm willing to excuse PPG being one character as they still reference a lot of fun moments with their current moveset. They got a lot of effort in their voicelines too. And the last thing MVS needs is trying to fit Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup as separate characters when they're already struggling to put bare minimum picks in the roster. They're playing catch up and are a year behind. It's leaning too much into "CN Punchtime Explosion" with the character turn out being far too demanding and strict to spend those kinds of opportunities separating the PPG. It took until Relaunch for The Joker of all characters to finally get in the game.

This isn't really a CN game. It doesn't make sense to separate the PPG here if Multiversus still wants to do variety picks especially when the girls would take away opportunities and unique chances from others. Same reason why Ben 10 aliens shouldn't get separate spots.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I did struggle to see how the PPG could all be one character, but I'm glad they came up with something that doesn't feel too clunky. I think the PPG's ability to fly helped with that.

Usually, I only support characters fighting together as one if one of the characters doesn't have enough moveset potential on their own, and/or the characters can reasonably be placed near each other without it feeling awkward. Like, I'd be upset if Mordecai & Rigby were placed together, because it'd feel awkward, and cause there's enough stuff in Regular Show to give them each a moveset. But I think Hi-Five Ghost should assist Muscle Man, cause he can easily float beside Muscle Man and fly after him when he gets hit.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I did struggle to see how the PPG could all be one character, but I'm glad they came up with something that doesn't feel too clunky. I think the PPG's ability to fly helped with that.

Usually, I only support characters fighting together as one if one of the characters doesn't have enough moveset potential on their own, and/or the characters can reasonably be placed near each other without it feeling awkward. Like, I'd be upset if Mordecai & Rigby were placed together, because it'd feel awkward, and cause there's enough stuff in Regular Show to give them each a moveset. But I think Hi-Five Ghost should assist Muscle Man, cause he can easily float beside Muscle Man and fly after him when he gets hit.

Coincidentally, I've been re-watching Regular Show, and honestly though the amount of times in that show the two of them fight right beside each other in tandem, and the amount of team up attacks they have, I think it justifies them fighting as one.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Coincidentally, I've been re-watching Regular Show, and honestly though the amount of times in that show the two of them fight right beside each other in tandem, and the amount of team up attacks they have, I think it justifies them fighting as one.

Finn and Jake fight together too, and were still made separate. It's not to say Mordecai and Rigby can't be made a duo, but it's not what I'm not expecting or hoping for.

 

[ivanlerma]

I got Michael Keaton's Batman and Animated Series Batman for Bruce's Costumes, getting the best outfits for him. Although i feel like the game missed out on giving Michael Keaton's Batmans Costume his own voice, i know keaton is too expensive but they should've hired a soundalike to help differ the 1987 batman costume a little.

Something i also wish for Joker if he gets Jack Nicholson, Heath Fledgier, and Joaquin Phoenix based costumes too.

Coincidentally, I've been re-watching Regular Show, and honestly though the amount of times in that show the two of them fight right beside each other in tandem, and the amount of team up attacks they have, I think it justifies them fighting as one.

Glad to hear someone else like the idea here.