Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

How about Mach Rider over Samus?

It doesn't work. Mach Rider does not have an arm cannon compared to Samus.

And personally, I'd love for Mach Rider to get a Brawl Pit-styled update, with their Mach Bike being changed to a transformation vehicle that switches between the Bike mode and an Exosuit mode that Mach Rider uses for combat.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Outside of Mewtwo/Giygas and maybe Piranha Plant/Deku Baba, who could even work as a cross series Echo? I mean, we could probably do Ice Climbers/Hammer Bros, but that's a massive stretch.

The only ones that I've thought about are Blaziken with Captain Falcon, Birdo with Yoshi (which I suppose is only technically cross-series and would definitely make the most sense minus the tongue moves), and Gardevoir with Zelda (though it probably wouldn't work with the current incarnation since Gardevoir is taller I think).

Mildly relevant

lol oops. Must be one of those Mandela Effect things.

Also I'm pretty sure Bubble Lead doesn't have an official pronunciation. It could be either word, but neither make any sense since one implies the bubbles are made of metal, and the other relies on them naming the weapon after a niche use in a single late game level.

I think you could probably do a Hitmonchan echo of Little Mac. Balrog and Vi have similar moves too but they’d have to be sized up so they wouldn’t really be echoes at that point. Blaziken makes a pretty fitting Captain Falcon echo too.

Assuming they share proportions, I could see Hitmonchan as a more balanced version of Little Mac, though that would require giving him entirely new aerials, which would mean the purpose his ground normals would have to change...yeah maybe a bit too much work for an Echo Fighter.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It doesn't work. Mach Rider does not have an arm cannon compared to Samus.

Also there's already a Samus Echo.

 

[Ivander]

In regards to the currant topic about "Cross-series echoes", I don't mind characters being used as a base for other characters. I'm definitely of the notion that Blaziken can definitely work with Captain Falcon's moveset as a base. Heck, you could give Blaziken some of Captain Falcon's old moves from Smash 64 like his Forward Smash kick, his Up Smash elbow attack and his Down Smash spinning kick to allow Blaziken to differentiate themselves from Falcon and give a bonus to fans who liked Falcon's moveset in Smash 64.

Outright cross-series echoes, no, I don't think that should be a thing.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

In regards to the currant topic about "Cross-series echoes", I don't mind characters being used as a base for other characters. I'm definitely of the notion that Blaziken can definitely work with Captain Falcon's moveset as a base. Heck, you could give Blaziken some of Captain Falcon's old moves from Smash 64 like his Forward Smash kick, his Up Smash elbow attack and his Down Smash spinning kick to allow Blaziken to differentiate themselves from Falcon and give a bonus to fans who liked Falcon's moveset in Smash 64.

Outright cross-series echoes, no, I don't think that should be a thing.

If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.

 

[Gorgonzales]

All this cross-series clone talk just makes me think more of how we already have one called "Ganondorf" and he's one of the most reviled Smash designs in the series's history.

Honestly this talk feels like people trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, grasping at straws for characters between series that could be remotely similar so that a moveset can be slapped onto 'em. At that point just go to Gamebanana because they'll have a lot of that type of content.

I don't even think that most echos from the same series do themselves justice. It's easy to imagine people not being happy about more Falcondorf situations.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Blaziken as Captain Falcon Echo is a yes. Obviously a new Final Smash would be needed. And maybe change the jab, D Air, Up B and Falcon Punch. Mostly everything else fits. Maybe Blaziken should be a little lighter however and as a trade off has better recovery

The only cross series clone I'd actually want is this. I say bring it.

As for MOTHER reps? The Masked Man over Porky for me.

If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.

SPIN OFF!

INELIGIBLE!

At least, that's what "they" say. Seems like a cool mechanic to me.

Honestly, Pokken and Hyrule Warriors did so many things better than Smash. Give me Pokken Mewtwo and Lucario and Hyrule Warriors 1 Link, Zelda and Ganondorf (Toon Link, YOUNG Link and Sheik aren't done bad either but they're a little less sure) and Age of Calamity Impa and am good. Not too sure if Pikachu and Charizard should take example from Pokken however.

 

[ninjahmos]

It'll probably never happen, but you know what I think would be an interesting Special Edition of Nintendo Direct?

Nintendo Direct @ Night

 

[Ivander]

If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.

So something like Jason's Neutral Special Rage from Multiversus? I mean, it's technically like Incineroar's Revenge Down Special, except it's self-damage and without needing to be hit by an enemy.

Anyway, I did say no to an outright clone/Echo, but more of a character using another character as a base. Something like how Wolf used Fox as a base or how in Smash 64, Captain Falcon used Samus as a base, Jigglypuff used Kirby as a base and Ness used Mario as a base. If Blaziken used Captain Falcon as a base and then got adjusted so that it's moveset was not an exact 1-1 of Falcon's moveset(I mean, there's also Charizard's Fire Blitz which can be added to Blaziken as well as Exploding Side Kick from Mii Brawler which can work as a Blaze Kick move for a Forward Smash or whatnot), I'd be okay with that.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So something like Jason's Neutral Special Rage from Multiversus? I mean, it's technically like Incineroar's Revenge Down Special, except it's self-damage and without needing to be hit by an enemy.

Not really. It's holding the button to perform an EX variant of the attack that's stronger at the cost of health.

An example using existing characters:
Fire Punch when tapped functions like a Falcon Punch.

Fire Punch when held functions like a Falcon Punch with the power of the Warlock Punch but instead of being Ganondorf speed, Blaziken takes damage when triggering it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All this cross-series clone talk just makes me think more of how we already have one called "Ganondorf" and he's one of the most reviled Smash designs in the series's history.

Honestly this talk feels like people trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, grasping at straws for characters between series that could be remotely similar so that a moveset can be slapped onto 'em. At that point just go to Gamebanana because they'll have a lot of that type of content.

I don't even think that most echos from the same series do themselves justice. It's easy to imagine people not being happy about more Falcondorf situations.

Ganondorf is a weird case in which he wouldn't have made it in if he wouldn't be a clone. It was a weird pick, but for Melee it worked. It didn't work for Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate started to make it half work. Even his "new" moves here are taken from Ike and Cloud. Now he's a true cross series clone. Admittedly Ganondorf fits much better in the stage and setting of Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy than F Zero maybe, but who am I to claim to know better?

Anyway. Tears of the Kingdom has a new Ganondorf. We all kinda expect this Ganondorf to become the main source of inspiration for his next Smash interation. So yeah.

I think it's entirely likely that Ganondorf can be based on TOTK and still be a little cloney though. At least Ultimate was a step in the right direction.

 

[SharkLord]

For you, it's a good time.

But Japanese culture is an entirely different thing. People with a work ethic like Sakurai's is worrisome in the West but in Japan, it's practically the norm.

People like that getting no work to do is practically torture, which is why this is an effective (and legal) alternative to mass layoffs in Japan.

Also I'd assume the higher-ups wouldn't want to pay you that much for just sitting in a room doing nothing, and that also means no hope of getting a promotion and getting better pay, which all together probably leaves you with mere peanuts for pay. I might very well be wrong, but it sounds like you're being exiled to the realm of just Not Being Paid Well and in a capitalist society, that almost certainly spells disaster

 

[Wonder Smash]

Smash Bros REALLY needs the Sky Runner theme as one of the Earthbound tracks:

 

[ninjahmos]

I may or may not have said this before, and it'll probably never happen, but if we ever get anymore SEGA content for Smash, I’d love to hear this song:

 

[Wonder Smash]

I may or may not have said this before, and it'll probably never happen, but if we ever get anymore SEGA content for Smash, I’d love to hear this song:

snip

You know, it's funny how I kinda see Rent a Hero as SEGA's equivalent to Earthbound in some ways.

 

[Idon]

Look, I don't think you guys get that a character's moveset is the foremost portrayal of who and what a character is and their specific appeal as combatants in a fighting game. It isn't just surface level garnish you can sweep under the rug, it's how characters express themselves period. They should never just be ways to shoehorn more characters where they do not belong. When we pick a character on a CSS we trust that they will fight even slightly differently from the guy next to them in a crossover game.

Frankly, echoes already betray that trust by thrusting just a semi-related character's moveset onto someone else devaluing the inherent uniqueness and personality of both characters. Cross-series echoes go far far beyond that by tying together 2 characters that have ACTUALLY nothing to do with each other. We may as well just make 20 Miis and attempt to fit all characters in fiction to these generalist templates.

tl;dr: Even if you can, I don't think you should.
Ever.

 

[smashkirby]

I'd still rather have Jr separated from the Koopalings. I feel you could do more with them that way.

Just to clarify though, I'm not asking for Jr to be stripped of his clown car or for the Koopalings to be removed from the game. What I'd like to see is for Jr to replace a few normals like the fork and hammer with his paintbrush, while the Koopalings also get a few changes to incorporate the wands and maybe some of their individual attacks.

I think it'd be neat if you traded the standard cannon with Roy's Bill Blaster for example or swap out the mecha koopa for Lemmy's bouncing bombs. Basically turning the Koopalings into a semi clone of Jr. They all still ride the clown cars but have a few different attacks/specials to set them apart.

Only thing you'd need to work out after that is who gets the 8 slot on the Koopaling side. I still think Nabbit makes the most sense but I think there's wiggle room for a few other options.

Huh, never thought I'd see someone come up with an idea to not only KEEP the Koopalings in Smash, but also come up with ways to make them semi-clones of Bowser Jr..

As for the 8th slot? I won't lie, I've always defaulted to Boom-Boom myself, but thinking about it now? Yeah, maybe Nabbit wouldn't be such a weird choice. Heck, in an ironic sense? It's a bit tricky for me to describe, but the very thought of Nabbit being a sort of "surprise character" in this sense of HIM suddenly driving a Clown Car AND the fact that HE'S the 8th alt. skin slot for this character.

So about the recent Pokémon leaks… I’m sure many people are excited to be finding out interesting things such as unintended folklore, beta designs, and character bios (especially Skyla’s, it seems, Jesus Christ).

But the leaks seem to have implied that Pokémon Legends Z-A was going to release in 2024, before being pushed back to 2025.

So we’re likely looking at a repeat of Legends Arceus/Scarlet & Violet with a game early in the year and a game later in the year.

Perhaps we will see a Direct at some point soon with news about Z-A, as well as Metroid Prime 4, DCKR HD, and possibly the Switch 2 itself.

When this Pokemon 'gigaleak' happened, seeing the concept art for Gen. IV (among other generations) reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask all of you. What would you all think about the idea of Garchomp joining Smash Bros., BUT it (or I guess, SHE, in this case) was accompanied by Cynthia?

Like, Garchomp wouldn't share a slot with any of Cynthia's other Pokémon (like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard), it'd just be Garchomp and Garchomp alone, with Cynthia mostly there for aesthetic purposes. That is to say, Cynthia would still "command" Garchomp like Red and Leaf do with THEIR Pokémon.

In addition, the character would be referred to as 'Cynthia and Garchomp'.

I will say that there's a really cool novelty to having supermassive stages like Palutena's Temple and Great Cave Offensive. You can tell that they tried with them, unlike stuff like 75m which copies the original layout with zero adaptations to a platform fighting environment.

I really need to rewatch some gameplay of Gyromite again to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that part of how I've advocated for R.O.B. getting his own stage was via 75m getting reskinned, as I THINK Gyromite contained a level that looked similar to 75m, but with different colored girders and what not.

Again, need to rewatch gameplay of Gyromite to be sure.

Speaking of light gun games, while having the Super Scope as a weapon is nice, I always thought a Yoshi's Safari/Battle Clash/Metal Combat stage would be a cool way to strongly pay tribute to that peripheral and its games.

Really hope I'm not coming off as pedantic for saying this, but Metal Combat is the sequel to Battle Clash, isn't it? All the same though, I wouldn't mind Michael Anderson (the main protagonist of BOTH games) join Smash as a playable character.

Frankly, I've been quite intrigued over how Smash would tackle him as a playable character. Would Smash Bros. pull a 'Marvel vs. Capcom' and have him be Smash's equivalent to Cyberbots's Jin Saotome, having him fight on foot? Or would his mech, the S.T. Falcon be playable instead (with him controlling it from the inside)?

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?

I mentioned this a while back, but I'd actually like to see Urban Champion as a cross-series clone of Little Mac.




Finally, there's something I'd like to ask to... well, anyone who'd care to give me a response on this. A couple of years ago, I actually came up with a moveset for Lark from Pilotwings and it was posted on SourceGaming (I'm pretty sure I was even the FIRST guest article for their Dream Smashers articles, so that was pretty neat).

Dream Smashers – Lark (Pilotwings)

Lark takes flight in the latest edition of Dream Smashers, this time written by guest smashkirby. How can a Pilotwings character work as a fighter? Well give it a read and find out!

sourcegaming.info

I'll be the first to admit, I DID have to do a pretty good deal of reaching to give Lark a (fairly) functional moveset and looking at it now? I'd probably change some stuff now (such as what costumes Lark would utilize, removing fellow pilot-in-training Kiwi from the equation entirely), but THAT'S what I'm wanting to ask here.

I recently played as Jill Valentine in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 via the MvC Fighting Collection, and her moveset made me wonder... would it hurt to give Lark some of her attacks (such as Close Fighting, which is basically a tackle attack) and her Super Attacks (Close Fighting +, CODE: T-002 [primarily the portion where she sets off an explosive mine], and Rocket Launcher)?

For the record, Lark hasn't been depicted doing something so 'physical' before (nor have any of the other characters in the Pilotwings series, for that matter), thus putting him in a similar boat to Fox and Captain Falcon, pre-Smash 64.

BUT given how Smash at one point in time would be willing to create movesets for characters that had SOME basis in their home series, do you all think if Lark were to somehow join Smash, using such moves wouldn't be TOO out-of-place for him (or any other Pilotwings character)?