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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Ivander

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How about Mach Rider over Samus?
It doesn't work. Mach Rider does not have an arm cannon compared to Samus.

And personally, I'd love for Mach Rider to get a Brawl Pit-styled update, with their Mach Bike being changed to a transformation vehicle that switches between the Bike mode and an Exosuit mode that Mach Rider uses for combat.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Outside of Mewtwo/Giygas and maybe Piranha Plant/Deku Baba, who could even work as a cross series Echo? I mean, we could probably do Ice Climbers/Hammer Bros, but that's a massive stretch.
The only ones that I've thought about are Blaziken with Captain Falcon, Birdo with Yoshi (which I suppose is only technically cross-series and would definitely make the most sense minus the tongue moves), and Gardevoir with Zelda (though it probably wouldn't work with the current incarnation since Gardevoir is taller I think).

Mildly relevant
lol oops. Must be one of those Mandela Effect things.

Also I'm pretty sure Bubble Lead doesn't have an official pronunciation. It could be either word, but neither make any sense since one implies the bubbles are made of metal, and the other relies on them naming the weapon after a niche use in a single late game level.

I think you could probably do a Hitmonchan echo of Little Mac. Balrog and Vi have similar moves too but they’d have to be sized up so they wouldn’t really be echoes at that point. Blaziken makes a pretty fitting Captain Falcon echo too.
Assuming they share proportions, I could see Hitmonchan as a more balanced version of Little Mac, though that would require giving him entirely new aerials, which would mean the purpose his ground normals would have to change...yeah maybe a bit too much work for an Echo Fighter.
 
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Ivander

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In regards to the currant topic about "Cross-series echoes", I don't mind characters being used as a base for other characters. I'm definitely of the notion that Blaziken can definitely work with Captain Falcon's moveset as a base. Heck, you could give Blaziken some of Captain Falcon's old moves from Smash 64 like his Forward Smash kick, his Up Smash elbow attack and his Down Smash spinning kick to allow Blaziken to differentiate themselves from Falcon and give a bonus to fans who liked Falcon's moveset in Smash 64.

Outright cross-series echoes, no, I don't think that should be a thing.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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In regards to the currant topic about "Cross-series echoes", I don't mind characters being used as a base for other characters. I'm definitely of the notion that Blaziken can definitely work with Captain Falcon's moveset as a base. Heck, you could give Blaziken some of Captain Falcon's old moves from Smash 64 like his Forward Smash kick, his Up Smash elbow attack and his Down Smash spinning kick to allow Blaziken to differentiate themselves from Falcon and give a bonus to fans who liked Falcon's moveset in Smash 64.

Outright cross-series echoes, no, I don't think that should be a thing.
If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.
 

Gorgonzales

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All this cross-series clone talk just makes me think more of how we already have one called "Ganondorf" and he's one of the most reviled Smash designs in the series's history.

Honestly this talk feels like people trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, grasping at straws for characters between series that could be remotely similar so that a moveset can be slapped onto 'em. At that point just go to Gamebanana because they'll have a lot of that type of content.

I don't even think that most echos from the same series do themselves justice. It's easy to imagine people not being happy about more Falcondorf situations.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Blaziken as Captain Falcon Echo is a yes. Obviously a new Final Smash would be needed. And maybe change the jab, D Air, Up B and Falcon Punch. Mostly everything else fits. Maybe Blaziken should be a little lighter however and as a trade off has better recovery

The only cross series clone I'd actually want is this. I say bring it.

As for MOTHER reps? The Masked Man over Porky for me.

If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.
SPIN OFF!

INELIGIBLE!

At least, that's what "they" say. Seems like a cool mechanic to me.

Honestly, Pokken and Hyrule Warriors did so many things better than Smash. Give me Pokken Mewtwo and Lucario and Hyrule Warriors 1 Link, Zelda and Ganondorf (Toon Link, YOUNG Link and Sheik aren't done bad either but they're a little less sure) and Age of Calamity Impa and am good. Not too sure if Pikachu and Charizard should take example from Pokken however.
 
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Ivander

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If Blaziken MUST be a clone, at least factor in its Pokkén mechanic where it can boost the strength of its specials at the cost of damaging itself.
So something like Jason's Neutral Special Rage from Multiversus? I mean, it's technically like Incineroar's Revenge Down Special, except it's self-damage and without needing to be hit by an enemy.

Anyway, I did say no to an outright clone/Echo, but more of a character using another character as a base. Something like how Wolf used Fox as a base or how in Smash 64, Captain Falcon used Samus as a base, Jigglypuff used Kirby as a base and Ness used Mario as a base. If Blaziken used Captain Falcon as a base and then got adjusted so that it's moveset was not an exact 1-1 of Falcon's moveset(I mean, there's also Charizard's Fire Blitz which can be added to Blaziken as well as Exploding Side Kick from Mii Brawler which can work as a Blaze Kick move for a Forward Smash or whatnot), I'd be okay with that.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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So something like Jason's Neutral Special Rage from Multiversus? I mean, it's technically like Incineroar's Revenge Down Special, except it's self-damage and without needing to be hit by an enemy.
Not really. It's holding the button to perform an EX variant of the attack that's stronger at the cost of health.

An example using existing characters:
Fire Punch when tapped functions like a Falcon Punch.

Fire Punch when held functions like a Falcon Punch with the power of the Warlock Punch but instead of being Ganondorf speed, Blaziken takes damage when triggering it.
 
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Diddy Kong

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All this cross-series clone talk just makes me think more of how we already have one called "Ganondorf" and he's one of the most reviled Smash designs in the series's history.

Honestly this talk feels like people trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, grasping at straws for characters between series that could be remotely similar so that a moveset can be slapped onto 'em. At that point just go to Gamebanana because they'll have a lot of that type of content.

I don't even think that most echos from the same series do themselves justice. It's easy to imagine people not being happy about more Falcondorf situations.
Ganondorf is a weird case in which he wouldn't have made it in if he wouldn't be a clone. It was a weird pick, but for Melee it worked. It didn't work for Brawl, Smash 4 and Ultimate started to make it half work. Even his "new" moves here are taken from Ike and Cloud. Now he's a true cross series clone. Admittedly Ganondorf fits much better in the stage and setting of Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy than F Zero maybe, but who am I to claim to know better?

Anyway. Tears of the Kingdom has a new Ganondorf. We all kinda expect this Ganondorf to become the main source of inspiration for his next Smash interation. So yeah.

I think it's entirely likely that Ganondorf can be based on TOTK and still be a little cloney though. At least Ultimate was a step in the right direction.
 

SharkLord

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For you, it's a good time.

But Japanese culture is an entirely different thing. People with a work ethic like Sakurai's is worrisome in the West but in Japan, it's practically the norm.

People like that getting no work to do is practically torture, which is why this is an effective (and legal) alternative to mass layoffs in Japan.
Also I'd assume the higher-ups wouldn't want to pay you that much for just sitting in a room doing nothing, and that also means no hope of getting a promotion and getting better pay, which all together probably leaves you with mere peanuts for pay. I might very well be wrong, but it sounds like you're being exiled to the realm of just Not Being Paid Well and in a capitalist society, that almost certainly spells disaster
 

ninjahmos

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I may or may not have said this before, and it'll probably never happen, but if we ever get anymore SEGA content for Smash, I’d love to hear this song:

 
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Idon

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Look, I don't think you guys get that a character's moveset is the foremost portrayal of who and what a character is and their specific appeal as combatants in a fighting game. It isn't just surface level garnish you can sweep under the rug, it's how characters express themselves period. They should never just be ways to shoehorn more characters where they do not belong. When we pick a character on a CSS we trust that they will fight even slightly differently from the guy next to them in a crossover game.

Frankly, echoes already betray that trust by thrusting just a semi-related character's moveset onto someone else devaluing the inherent uniqueness and personality of both characters. Cross-series echoes go far far beyond that by tying together 2 characters that have ACTUALLY nothing to do with each other. We may as well just make 20 Miis and attempt to fit all characters in fiction to these generalist templates.

tl;dr: Even if you can, I don't think you should.
Ever.
 
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smashkirby

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I'd still rather have Jr separated from the Koopalings. I feel you could do more with them that way.

Just to clarify though, I'm not asking for Jr to be stripped of his clown car or for the Koopalings to be removed from the game. What I'd like to see is for Jr to replace a few normals like the fork and hammer with his paintbrush, while the Koopalings also get a few changes to incorporate the wands and maybe some of their individual attacks.

I think it'd be neat if you traded the standard cannon with Roy's Bill Blaster for example or swap out the mecha koopa for Lemmy's bouncing bombs. Basically turning the Koopalings into a semi clone of Jr. They all still ride the clown cars but have a few different attacks/specials to set them apart.

Only thing you'd need to work out after that is who gets the 8 slot on the Koopaling side. I still think Nabbit makes the most sense but I think there's wiggle room for a few other options.
Huh, never thought I'd see someone come up with an idea to not only KEEP the Koopalings in Smash, but also come up with ways to make them semi-clones of Bowser Jr..

As for the 8th slot? I won't lie, I've always defaulted to Boom-Boom myself, but thinking about it now? Yeah, maybe Nabbit wouldn't be such a weird choice. Heck, in an ironic sense? It's a bit tricky for me to describe, but the very thought of Nabbit being a sort of "surprise character" in this sense of HIM suddenly driving a Clown Car AND the fact that HE'S the 8th alt. skin slot for this character.

So about the recent Pokémon leaks… I’m sure many people are excited to be finding out interesting things such as unintended folklore, beta designs, and character bios (especially Skyla’s, it seems, Jesus Christ).

But the leaks seem to have implied that Pokémon Legends Z-A was going to release in 2024, before being pushed back to 2025.

So we’re likely looking at a repeat of Legends Arceus/Scarlet & Violet with a game early in the year and a game later in the year.

Perhaps we will see a Direct at some point soon with news about Z-A, as well as Metroid Prime 4, DCKR HD, and possibly the Switch 2 itself.
When this Pokemon 'gigaleak' happened, seeing the concept art for Gen. IV (among other generations) reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask all of you. What would you all think about the idea of Garchomp joining Smash Bros., BUT it (or I guess, SHE, in this case) was accompanied by Cynthia?

Like, Garchomp wouldn't share a slot with any of Cynthia's other Pokémon (like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard), it'd just be Garchomp and Garchomp alone, with Cynthia mostly there for aesthetic purposes. That is to say, Cynthia would still "command" Garchomp like Red and Leaf do with THEIR Pokémon.

In addition, the character would be referred to as 'Cynthia and Garchomp'.

I will say that there's a really cool novelty to having supermassive stages like Palutena's Temple and Great Cave Offensive. You can tell that they tried with them, unlike stuff like 75m which copies the original layout with zero adaptations to a platform fighting environment.
I really need to rewatch some gameplay of Gyromite again to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that part of how I've advocated for R.O.B. getting his own stage was via 75m getting reskinned, as I THINK Gyromite contained a level that looked similar to 75m, but with different colored girders and what not.

Again, need to rewatch gameplay of Gyromite to be sure.

Speaking of light gun games, while having the Super Scope as a weapon is nice, I always thought a Yoshi's Safari/Battle Clash/Metal Combat stage would be a cool way to strongly pay tribute to that peripheral and its games.
Really hope I'm not coming off as pedantic for saying this, but Metal Combat is the sequel to Battle Clash, isn't it? All the same though, I wouldn't mind Michael Anderson (the main protagonist of BOTH games) join Smash as a playable character.

Frankly, I've been quite intrigued over how Smash would tackle him as a playable character. Would Smash Bros. pull a 'Marvel vs. Capcom' and have him be Smash's equivalent to Cyberbots's Jin Saotome, having him fight on foot? Or would his mech, the S.T. Falcon be playable instead (with him controlling it from the inside)?

Darth isn't the only one to say this so it's not specifically a response to him, but I do wonder why people are against cross series Echo Fighters. Well...I suppose Gannondorf is the short answer, but if there are characters that actually make more sense as clones than simply sharing a body structure there's not really a problem with making them as such right?
I mentioned this a while back, but I'd actually like to see Urban Champion as a cross-series clone of Little Mac.
3119992-urbanchampionfighter.png Little_Mac-1.png



Finally, there's something I'd like to ask to... well, anyone who'd care to give me a response on this. A couple of years ago, I actually came up with a moveset for Lark from Pilotwings and it was posted on SourceGaming (I'm pretty sure I was even the FIRST guest article for their Dream Smashers articles, so that was pretty neat).


I'll be the first to admit, I DID have to do a pretty good deal of reaching to give Lark a (fairly) functional moveset and looking at it now? I'd probably change some stuff now (such as what costumes Lark would utilize, removing fellow pilot-in-training Kiwi from the equation entirely), but THAT'S what I'm wanting to ask here.

I recently played as Jill Valentine in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 via the MvC Fighting Collection, and her moveset made me wonder... would it hurt to give Lark some of her attacks (such as Close Fighting, which is basically a tackle attack) and her Super Attacks (Close Fighting +, CODE: T-002 [primarily the portion where she sets off an explosive mine], and Rocket Launcher)?

For the record, Lark hasn't been depicted doing something so 'physical' before (nor have any of the other characters in the Pilotwings series, for that matter), thus putting him in a similar boat to Fox and Captain Falcon, pre-Smash 64.

BUT given how Smash at one point in time would be willing to create movesets for characters that had SOME basis in their home series, do you all think if Lark were to somehow join Smash, using such moves wouldn't be TOO out-of-place for him (or any other Pilotwings character)?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I'm personally fine with cross-series Echoes as long as it's handled better than they handled Daisy.

If two characters from entirely different series happen to fight similarly and both were to get in Smash but there wasn't enough time to really make one of them a full character, an Echo works in this situation.

With that said, I think it's also the ONLY situation where a cross-series Echo works.
 
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Diddy Kong

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When this Pokemon 'gigaleak' happened, seeing the concept art for Gen. IV (among other generations) reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask all of you. What would you all think about the idea of Garchomp joining Smash Bros., BUT it (or I guess, SHE, in this case) was accompanied by Cynthia?

Like, Garchomp wouldn't share a slot with any of Cynthia's other Pokémon (like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard), it'd just be Garchomp and Garchomp alone, with Cynthia mostly there for aesthetic purposes. That is to say, Cynthia would still "command" Garchomp like Red and Leaf do with THEIR Pokémon.

In addition, the character would be referred to as 'Cynthia and Garchomp'.
Just Garchomp would be enough for me. I say a big fat YES.
 

ScrubReborn

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If two characters from entirely different series happen to fight similarly and both were to get in Smash but there wasn't enough time to really make one of them a full character, an Echo works in this situation.
Sure but again, other than thee holy Captain Blaziken, who would that apply to that would actually work? I mean yeah you could get a character in faster, but Falcondorf shows that it ends up causing a lot of trouble in the long-term. Sometimes the long game is better.

I really need to rewatch some gameplay of Gyromite again to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that part of how I've advocated for R.O.B. getting his own stage was via 75m getting reskinned, as I THINK Gyromite contained a level that looked similar to 75m, but with different colored girders and what not.

Again, need to rewatch gameplay of Gyromite to be sure.
I get what you're tryna do, but man, imagine:
  • You're R.O.B.
  • You get no stages for three games in a row
  • Then in Smash 6, you get smeared with a reskin of the worst stage in Smash history.
  • R.O.B.: "I wanna commit unalive".
 
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Kirby Dragons

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Echoes as a concept do nothing for me. They might technically be adding more characters to the roster, but they're barely adding anything new. If there's a character I don't care about, making them an echo won't make me more interested in them. And if there's a character I do care about, I just might get upset about them being an echo, like with Daisy.

That said, I think cross-series echoes could work. There are barely any fitting examples, but if you really just want there to be another character, then go ahead.
 

Gengar84

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Echoes as a concept do nothing for me. They might technically be adding more characters to the roster, but they're barely adding anything new. If there's a character I don't care about, making them an echo won't make me more interested in them. And if there's a character I do care about, I just might get upset about them being an echo, like with Daisy.

That said, I think cross-series echoes could work. There are barely any fitting examples, but if you really just want there to be another character, then go ahead.
Yeah, I can kind of relate to that sentiment. If there’s a character I really want and at least part of that is because of their potential moveset, I’d be pretty let down with them being an echo. At the same time, I’m more forgiving of Smash sacrificing a character’s accuracy if the only way they’d ever get in is through an echo. Even if the moves don’t exactly match the source material, I’d rather have something than nothing.

I feel like part of that is because I’ve been playing modded Smash since Brawl and even made a lot of my own mods. So I’m used to characters being ported over existing characters that are at least vaguely similar. Some Ultimate characters in my game have over 30 unique characters ported over them and they work well enough for the most part. Part of the fun for me is figuring out which existing Smash character would be the most fitting for a model import. You have to take both proportions and moveset into account, which is always a fun challenge.
 

PersonAngelo53

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View attachment 395255

Giygas is one of the very few characters I'm adamantly against becoming a fighter. Making him a tangible, playable character would be like giving Cthulhu a health bar.

He's meant to be an incomprehensible monstrosity; that kind of thing would be a lot easier to represent if he was an "assist" trophy or stage hazard, with his gaseous nightmare form covering the entire background as everyone (including the summoner) receives damage, knockback, and status effects at frequent or seemingly random intervals.

You cannot grasp the true form of his attacks.
Call me crazy but I would like his final boss theme to be in the game at the very least. I know is not the most fitting thing for a battle but it gives variety to our music selection having one really creepy track.

 

DarthEnderX

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Ganondorf is a weird case in which he wouldn't have made it in if he wouldn't be a clone.
He still would have been made. He just would have had to wait till Brawl.

Look, I don't think you guys get that a character's moveset is the foremost portrayal of who and what a character is and their specific appeal as combatants in a fighting game. It isn't just surface level garnish you can sweep under the rug, it's how characters express themselves period. They should never just be ways to shoehorn more characters where they do not belong. When we pick a character on a CSS we trust that they will fight even slightly differently from the guy next to them in a crossover game.

Frankly, echoes already betray that trust by thrusting just a semi-related character's moveset onto someone else devaluing the inherent uniqueness and personality of both characters. Cross-series echoes go far far beyond that by tying together 2 characters that have ACTUALLY nothing to do with each other. We may as well just make 20 Miis and attempt to fit all characters in fiction to these generalist templates.

tl;dr: Even if you can, I don't think you should.
Ever.

What would you all think about the idea of Garchomp joining Smash Bros., BUT it (or I guess, SHE, in this case) was accompanied by Cynthia?
Totally fine.

My problems with Pokemon Trainer are:
1. Transformation character
2. 3 characters worth of dev resources spent on one character.

Giving trainers to individual Pokemon as purely aesthetic background elements has neither of those issues.
 
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Gengar84

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He still would have been made. He just would have had to wait till Brawl.



Totally fine.

My problems with Pokemon Trainer are:
1. Transformation character
2. 3 characters worth of dev resources spent on one character.

Giving trainers to individual Pokemon as purely aesthetic background elements has neither of those issues.
I get where you’re coming from but I see things a bit differently. What if you really wanted each individual character in a transformation but realize the transformation is the only way to get all of them? Like people who are really big fans of Squirtle or Ivysaur. I don’t think either ever would have made it on their own without the Trainer concept.

One of my own examples on my list are Alphen and Shionne from Tales of Arise. Alphen is the actual protagonist but I prefer Shionne as a character. In their case, a team actually works really well since they rely on each other to use their powers. Alphen wouldn’t be able to use his flame sword without Shionne’s powers. Alphen’s in your face melee style built on damaging himself to increase damage contrasts really well to Shionne’s ranged and healing arts. I realize Lloyd is more likely anyways, but that’s just one example.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I get where you’re coming from but I see things a bit differently. What if you really wanted each individual character in a transformation but realize the transformation is the only way to get both of them? Like people who are really big fans of Squirtle or Ivysaur. I don’t think either ever would have made it on their own without the Trainer concept.
Given how much he despises the mechanic I have a feeling that if that's the only way they could be added, he straight up wouldn't want them. lol

It's why he wants Solozard so much. He wants to play Charizard, but doesn't want to be forced to play a stance character in order to do it. And like, yeah, all of them are designed so that you could play as just the one, but they also encourage you to use them together, and you're down a special move.

EDIT: Honestly, I wouldn't mind the option for at least Charizard since he's been both separate and together before, and it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to implement.
 
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Perkilator

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Given how much he despises the mechanic I have a feeling that if that's the only way they could be added, he straight up wouldn't want them. lol

It's why he wants Solozard so much. He wants to play Charizard, but doesn't want to be forced to play a stance character in order to do it. And like, yeah, all of them are designed so that you could play as just the one, but they also encourage you to use them together, and you're down a special move.

EDIT: Honestly, I wouldn't mind the option for at least Charizard since he's been both separate and together before, and it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to implement.
I only wish that if Charizard becomes Solo-Zard again, he gets reworked to be less reliant on a switching mechanic.
 

Gengar84

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I think transformations should be moved to a taunt button or something similar. That way, each character can have a full moveset and if you prefer to just play as one, you’re not at a disadvantage. You could argue they’d instead be at an advantage thanks to that expanded move pool but now that we have characters like Ryu, Terry, and Kazuya, I think that’s less of a concern.

I think part of it is that Darth and I prioritize character inclusions differently. He tends to prioritize legacy and importance to the series or gaming first and foremost. Thats certainly a valid take. Because of that, I can see how he’d only want Charizard out of the three Kanto starters if given the choice. My priority is more on characters I personally like and think would have fun and creative movesets regardless of legacy. For me, legacy is a great bonus and still important but, at the end of the day, I just want to play as characters I like. If transformations are the best or only way to make that happen, then I’m perfectly cool with it.

Another thing is probably how much value you put on the competitive aspect of Smash. For me, transformations are great because that’s more I can play around with in a match and the flavor of switching in and out is really fun. Someone that’s more focused on learning how to play a character optimally at a high level could understandably view that as a barrier since there’s more to learn.
 
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Perkilator

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There is probably a fun challenge of assigning a "Shield plus B" button function to all fighters beyond transformation characters and Inkling, even if for some it would likely amount to another glorified taunt.
I think that'd work for something like Link as a way to implement the shield parry mechanic.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I think that'd work for something like Link as a way to implement the shield parry mechanic.
There's an alternate universe out there where balance was thrown at the window and pretty much all fighters had either something like that or a mechanic that would essentially allow you to change to custom move variations during a match via the button combo.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think transformations should be moved to a taunt button or something similar. That way, each character can have a full moveset and if you prefer to just play as one, you’re not at a disadvantage. You could argue they’d instead be at an advantage thanks to that expanded move pool but now that we have characters like Ryu, Terry, and Kazuya, I think that’s less of a concern.

I think part of it is that Darth and I prioritize character inclusions differently. He tends to prioritize legacy and importance to the series or gaming first and foremost. Thats certainly a valid take. Because of that, I can see how he’d only want Charizard out of the three Kanto starters if given the choice. My priority is more on characters I personally like and think would have fun and creative movesets regardless of legacy. For me, legacy is a great bonus and still important but, at the end of the day, I just want to play as characters I like. If transformations are the best or only way to make that happen, then I’m perfectly cool with it.

Another thing is probably how much value you put on the competitive aspect of Smash. For me, transformations are great because that’s more I can play around with in a match and the flavor of switching in and out is really fun. Someone that’s more focused on learning how to play a character optimally at a high level could understandably view that as a barrier since there’s more to learn.
I don't like the idea of tying core mechanics into the cheeky flavor animation button. Didn't like it for PM's Ice Missile Samus and I don't like it here. I also kinda think that Pyra/Mythra kind of only make sense as transforming characters. If they somehow add Pneuma then sure, but otherwise...eh?

As far as your other point, I just view these characters as more technical, so of course less people are willing to learn them unless they're absolutely busted. That's just kinda how it is with most stance characters.
 

Gengar84

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I don't like the idea of tying core mechanics into the cheeky flavor animation button. Didn't like it for PM's Ice Missile Samus and I don't like it here. I also kinda think that Pyra/Mythra kind of only make sense as transforming characters. If they somehow add Pneuma then sure, but otherwise...eh?

As far as your other point, I just view these characters as more technical, so of course less people are willing to learn them unless they're absolutely busted. That's just kinda how it is with most stance characters.
I think as long as they’re still easy enough to pick up and play, most casuals would still use them if they liked the character or enjoyed their moveset. For example, I never really learned Kazuya’s combos in Smash but he’s still a ton of fun to play at a base level. Same goes for the transformation characters. I main the random button so I never really learn all the ins and outs of any particular character but I can play them well enough to get by and have fun.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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I wouldn't mind if transformations were attached to Shield + B to give transformation characters a full kit alongside their transformations.

I don't think they're gonna actually go through with doing that, but I wouldn't mind it.

I just kinda wish Pokemon Trainer wouldn't force swap Pokemon every time you lose a stock, but I get that it's supposed to be like "oh your Pokemon got knocked out, time to switch" lol
 

Hypercat-Z

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How about transformations/changes that are also attacks?
Like: If The Battletoads get in the roster as a tag team, with Down+B the character in use will rocket up in the sky, hitting everyone in the path, and the successive character will meteor down, doing the same.
 

Gengar84

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How about transformations/changes that are also attacks?
Like: If The Battletoads get in the roster as a tag team, with Down+B the character in use will rocket up in the sky, hitting everyone in the path, and the successive character will meteor down, doing the same.
I like that idea a lot for characters from team based games. I had a similar idea with my Alphen/Shionne moveset and it could work great for a pair like Vi/Caitlyn or Ahri/Yasuo considering the team mechanics of 2XKO. The Battletoads probably don’t need any kind of transformation though. I’d just go with something close to Rash’s moveset from Killer Instinct and just have the different toads as alts. That moveset worked great for a default Battletoad set. It would be a small miracle if we even got one playable Battletoad so I’m not holding my breath for multiple through a transformation. I certainly wouldn’t be opposed though. The more Toads, the better.
 
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