Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wow, you're right.

Generic Magikoopas have been blue for so long that I almost wish that the tell for "generic Magikoopa" was an all-blue robe while Kamek retains the white trim on his hat and sleeves, but I'm not entirely opposed to this new direction either. They look good in Orange.

I'm not sure what to think of this since the flying broom actually was Kamek's unique trait compared to generic Magikoopas.

So while generic Magikoopas are more distinct from Kamek, Kamek himself is now less unique in terms of abilities and closer to the "hat Goomba" argument we've seen flying around.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not sure what to think of this since the flying broom actually was Kamek's unique trait compared to generic Magikoopas.

So while generic Magikoopas are more distinct from Kamek, Kamek himself is now less unique in terms of abilities and closer to the "hat Goomba" argument we've seen flying around.

The other Magikoopas started picking up on how to ride a broom and Kamek had a crisis of identity, so he went to the Koopa Court or whatever the hell they've got going in Bowser's kingdom and trademarked the blue robes to keep himself unique. Or something

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The other Magikoopas started picking up on how to ride a broom and Kamek had a crisis of identity, so he went to the Koopa Court or whatever the hell they've got going in Bowser's kingdom and trademarked the blue robes to keep himself unique. Or something

He is Bowser's father figure and main advisor.

He probably is the court

 

[ninjahmos]

If the next game has Multi-Man Smash, I'm kind of hoping it'll have a new remix of the Fighting Polygon Team's theme:

 

[Ivander]

I kid you all not, I'm still of the idea that, provided that the tech for Smash advances in the future/Sakurai decides to go ahead with it, I'd wouldn't be opposed to having an 8-in-1 Custom Robo character with Ray as the main focus. Maybe even call the character 'Custom Robo', for good measure.

With that said, do you any of you have any ideas as to what Robos do you think would be used in the character slot alongside Ray? If anything, I'm thinking Ray MK III, alongside 7 other Robos from Arena (for DS).

I don't think it'd be possible to do an 8-in-1 when part of the thing with Custom Robos is the different stats, abilities and whatnot. Some of the Ray series could get away with being alts, but other Robos and other Ray series Robos, not so much.

A Hero/Sora scenario would probably be more likely. My preferable scenario would be Ray, Ray MKII, Ray MKIII and Ray 01, since all four are quite close in stats and have the same abilities, though Ray 01 is really overdesigned compared to the other 3 and it's model could conflict with hitboxes. But it would be my preferred set-up. For the 4 Alt colors:

• Ray's would be Ray Sky colors, with an add-on visor.
• Ray MKII's would be Ray MKII Dark's colors.
• Ray MKIII's colors would be a fully gold plated color scheme for 3 reasons. To reflect the gold coloring a Robo gets using Soul Boost, to be a reference to AIRS, the gold-plated military version of Ray Sky, and as a reference to actual real-life gold-plated versions of toys and whatnot.
• None of the remaining Ray models would have different enough colors for Ray 01. While Ray Warrior can be considered a soup-up version of Ray 01, Ray Warrior has a different model from Ray 01 and it's colors aren't that different enough from Ray 01s. So as a fitting compromise, Ray 01's colors are based off of Glory, a Shining Fighter Robo that originated in the same game as Ray 01 and is also the Robo primarily used by the Hero's best friend. It also gives a Green-colored option for Ray to go with the Ray series mainly Red/Blue/White colors, Ray Sky's mostly Blue/White colors, Ray Dark's purple/black colors and the gold-plated Ray MKIII colors.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'm not sure what to think of this since the flying broom actually was Kamek's unique trait compared to generic Magikoopas.

So while generic Magikoopas are more distinct from Kamek, Kamek himself is now less unique in terms of abilities and closer to the "hat Goomba" argument we've seen flying around.

Doesn't help that the main thing setting him apart is having a distinct name in English, which isn't the case in Japan where "Kamek" is the name of the species.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Doesn't help that the main thing setting him apart is having a distinct name in English, which isn't the case in Japan where "Kamek" is the name of the species.

So, is there no specific Kamek in Japan?

 

[SharkLord]

Doesn't help that the main thing setting him apart is having a distinct name in English, which isn't the case in Japan where "Kamek" is the name of the species.

Mario in general has a lot of weird situations where a name is simultaneously given to a person and an entire species. Like how "Toad" is simultaneously a specific character and an entire species, with The Designated Toad seemingly changing between installments. Or how Yoshi shares his name with his entire species, thought at least in his case there seems to consistently be a specific singular Yoshi across games. I think?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So, is there no specific Kamek in Japan?

I mean, like Yoshi there is probably THE Kamek, the one that raised Bowser.

Just that in Japan he doesn't have his own name.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean, like Yoshi there is probably THE Kamek, the one that raised Bowser.

Just that in Japan he doesn't have his own name.

Like how Bowser over there is just Koopa?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Like how Bowser over there is just Koopa?

Not exactly because while yes, Bowser is "King Koopa", the "Koopas" are Nokonoko (Koopa Troopa), Patapata (Koopa Paratroopa), etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Toad is the US is more like Kamek in Japan.

In Japan, Toad has a distinct name from the species. In the US, Kamek is the distinct name of his species. Though do note that Toad didn't get a distinct name immediately in Japan. However, the US immediately designated Kamek out during his debut in Yoshi's Island.

Regardless, it's the most similar situation we got~

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Toad is the US is more like Kamek in Japan.

In Japan, Toad has a distinct name from the species.

Not quite true. "Kinoko" and "Kinopio" (also the name of the character) have been used interchangeably for the species.

Blue Toad and Yellow Toad from the New Soups for example are Ao Kinopio and Kiiro Kinopio, and they're separate Toads from "Toad".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not quite true. "Kinoko" and "Kinopio" (also the name of the character) have been used interchangeably for the species.

Blue Toad and Yellow Toad from the New Soups for example are Ao Kinopio and Kiiro Kinopio, and they're separate Toads from "Toad".

Not entirely either. Kinopio was used only for the 7 Mushroom Retainers as well, particularly the ones that worked for Peach.

It wasn't a general name for the species, but more important characters. ...Even if minorly important, heh.

Still, it's more that Kamek's situation is similar to Toad's. If it helps, earlier games did have a more important Magikoopa too(like in Yoshi's Safari) that's singled out, but it's still quite different from simply odd naming choices.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In Japan, Toad has a distinct name from the species. In the US, Kamek is the distinct name of his species. Though do note that Toad didn't get a distinct name immediately in Japan. However, the US immediately designated Kamek out during his debut in Yoshi's Island.

This almost feels like someone on the translating team chose not to translate Kamek's name in specifically that game and it just stuck.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What 1st party franchise do you think is most likely to get 2 new characters in the next Smash and who do you think those characters would be?

Most likely to get TWO new characters? Probably ****ing FE.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This almost feels like someone on the translating team chose not to translate Kamek's name in specifically that game and it just stuck.

Probably. It's a good option that was already there. So why not?

 

[BuckleyTim]

Most likely to get TWO new characters? Probably ****ing FE.

In that case, who do y'all think could work best as Lyn's echo?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

In that case, who do y'all think could work best as Lyn's echo?

The most fitting would be this goober.

But realistically, they would probably pick "Next FE protagonist" as the unique newcomer and Lyn would be the echo

 

[Laniv]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1. All of them deserve to be in
2. Wrecking Crew, Pilotwings and Wuhu Island feel like safe bets. Not Miiverse, that's for sure
3. ...Technically, four of these franchises have a fighter. (Mii Sorcerer for Smash 6 plz) That said, I did say I'd like to see a Nintendo DS as a fighter, and maybe Foreman Spike has a shot. Lark or one of the Pilotwings 64 pilots would be fun
4. If Rhythm Heaven isn't getting a fighter, it's probably getting a stage. After that, probably Advance Wars or Starfy
5. Nah, it's got three. Four if they add Mii Sorceror

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

I dunno if I can answer all of these, but...

2. I'm still of the opinion that most of the stages next game should be brand new, maybe with some of Ultimate's new ones coming back depending on characters involved (like Dracula's Castle if the Belmonts come back, Mementos for Joker, Spiral Mountain for Banjo, etc etc), more like how Melee and Brawl used to do it.

If I HAVE to pick stages to come back from that list, then I could see Balloon Fight, Living Room, Wuhu Island, and Wrecking Crew coming back.

3. Maybe Balloon Fighter as a retro addition? I don't think any of the others aside from maybe Pilotwings have much going for that (and for Pilotwings I have a complete lack of knowledge), and 4 of them are already represented by the Miis essentially lol

4. If I remember right, I think a Brain Age stage was planned for Smash 4 and then scrapped? And if Rhythm Heaven doesn't get a fighter, I could see it at least getting something like this maybe. So I'll say maybe those two (though obviously I'd prefer the latter get a character lol).

 

[Ivander]

In that case, who do y'all think could work best as Lyn's echo?

This guy.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Or at the least, if Lyn became playable, this guy would probably take her Assist Trophy place.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Or maybe we just update Lyn's voice lines and call it a day.

Sounds good to me.

 

[SPEN18]

This guy.

Oh, you must mean this Guy.

/j

(seriously though, trying to make a Lyn Echo would probably necessitate dropping any bow moves from the moveset, which would be a big negative imo)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

As a PMEX Remix player all I can say is

even if I think Navarre is meh moveset-wise compared to Lyn.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

(seriously though, trying to make a Lyn Echo would probably necessitate dropping any bow moves from the moveset, which would be a big negative imo)

If it's kept to one special, we could reasonably have it be the one changed special that's cloned from someone else.

Because FE tends to have very unique-feeling Echoes.

 

[Ivander]

(seriously though, trying to make a Lyn Echo would probably necessitate dropping any bow moves from the moveset, which would be a big negative imo)

It depends...my biggest concern if Lyn gets her bow is that her bow will be regulated to one or two moves. Link, Toon Link and Young Link only use their Bow for one attack, and Pit and Dark Pit use their Bow mainly as a dual blade and only one of their attacks use their Bow as an actual Bow. And then Zelda and Sheik had their Bow of Light stuck to their Final Smash until Ultimate.

It makes me all the more curious on what Sakurai would've done with Decidueye if he chose them instead, but at the same time with how even the dedicated Bow users don't really use their Bow as a bow most of the time, it's possible we dodged the bullet of Decidueye not doing a lot of Bow&Arrow-like attacks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

it's possible we dodged the bullet of Decidueye not doing a lot of Bow&Arrow-like attacks.

On the plus side, that'd make H-Deciidueye a much more feasible echo

 

[SPEN18]

If it's kept to one special, we could reasonably have it be the one changed special that's cloned from someone else.

Because FE tends to have very unique-feeling Echoes.

It depends...my biggest concern if Lyn gets her bow is that her bow will be regulated to one or two moves.

Yeah that could always be the case, tho I feel like the best Lyn kit probably gets a bit more creative with the bow than a single stock neutral special (and same for Decidueye as well).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah that could always be the case, tho I feel like the best Lyn kit probably gets a bit more creative with the bow than a single stock neutral special (and same for Decidueye as well).

Lyn with the Kung Jin moveset so the bow is also a blunt weapon

 

[Arcanir]

Or maybe we just update Lyn's voice lines and call it a day.

Sounds good to me.

To be honest, at the bare minimum that's something I hope they do. No offense to Lani Minella, but the way they directed her to play Lyn does not fit the character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So while generic Magikoopas are more distinct from Kamek, Kamek himself is now less unique in terms of abilities and closer to the "hat Goomba" argument we've seen flying around.

Heh.

 

[Gorgonzales]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1. I'm cool with most of them. Electroplankton was neat in Brawl but I think it's the only one that overstayed its welcome.

2. I don't know, it's really up in the air. If I had to pick I'd probably say Pilotwings and Wuhu Island.

3. Out of all these, Balloon Fight is the only series that I think would be appropriate for a full-fledged character.

4. I don't know, Nintendo Labo or something? Maybe?

5. No. Smash itself doesn't really need a fighter. The Miis technically already fill that role anyhow.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Heh.

I'm glad someone caught that

 

[NintenRob]

I do wonder how Brothership names the Magikoopas and Kamek in Japan. Since they have separate designs, maybe now they're given separate names?

Nintendo has actually updated some names recently. Banzai Bill has been renamed Bomber Bill (which is lame)


I do think with Kamek being so noteworthy in the movie, they want him to have more of distinction

 

[ninjahmos]

It'll probably never happen…but imagine what they could do if they made Dragon King into an original Smash character with his own moveset, with a fully melodically composed arrangement of this:

And this would be his Star K.O. Scream.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Nintendo has actually updated some names recently. Banzai Bill has been renamed Bomber Bill (which is lame)

I actually didn't remember this one about the Banzai Bills, the first one I thought of was adopting the PAL name for Wollywogs and Wogpoles in Pikmin (AKA Wollyhops and Wolpoles).

 

[SharkLord]

On the topic of Lyn, I've been tossing around moveset concepts in my head. Since she'd be the first real iaijutsu fighter, the main quirk I had in mind is that all her attacks come out lightning fast, but have significant endlag that leave her open if she misses. If we want to capitalize on her speed and let her do some combos, maybe the endlag is decreased if she lands a hit, making her a big risk vs reward fighter - Play her right, and you'll have a blazing fast combo monster. Drop the combo even once, and you're a sitting duck. Though, I dunno how fun a touch-of-death or nothing character would be, so maybe we can just stick with "Good startup, bad endlag."

For faster attacks, I like the idea of slashes too fast to see; We see her sword hand twitch as the fancy slash lines fly out, and that's it. As for specials, hmm...

• Neutral special is probably a bow, given how much IntSys shows her with one nowadays. Maybe her charged shot makes her spin it, like the Sword Lord crit animation
  
  
• Side special would be the quick-draw rush that only launches after she sheaths her sword (Because it's cool that way). Visually, maybe it'd look something like her normal attack animation
  
  
  
  
• Up special, something like her Sol Katti attack animation. First input would have her bolt upwards lightning-quick, like Marth's Dolphin Slash. Second input would make her do the downward spinning move
  
  
  
  
• Down special, the Judgement Cut-looking attack that Swordmasters have for crits in Engage. I don't know if there's a clip lying around on the internet but just know it's pretty Judgement Cut-y
• Final Smash? Probably Astra. The Sol Katti crit animation already covers the general idea; a barrage of lightning-fast slashes
  

 

[Ivander]

• Side special would be the quick-draw rush that only launches after she sheaths her sword (Because it's cool that way). Visually, maybe it'd look something like her normal attack animation
  View attachment 396350

A.k.a How to give Multiversus players Vietnam flashbacks to Samurai Jack's Side-B.