Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the topic of Lyn, I've been tossing around moveset concepts in my head. Since she'd be the first real iaijutsu fighter, the main quirk I had in mind is that all her attacks come out lightning fast, but have significant endlag that leave her open if she misses. If we want to capitalize on her speed and let her do some combos, maybe the endlag is decreased if she lands a hit, making her a big risk vs reward fighter - Play her right, and you'll have a blazing fast combo monster. Drop the combo even once, and you're a sitting duck. Though, I dunno how fun a touch-of-death or nothing character would be, so maybe we can just stick with "Good startup, bad endlag."

I like the idea overall, though I think it's kind of funny that it would make Smash's dedicated iaido character not have The Stance (TM). It would make sense though since Lyn makes the most sense as a rushdown character due to speed being more prominent in her skillset, and iaido characters aren't really in that category.

Seeing Lyn with a bow is always super weird to me. Like, she's a swordmaster, why do they keep giving her a bow?

 

[Arcanir]

I like the idea overall, though I think it's kind of funny that it would make Smash's dedicated iaido character not have The Stance (TM). It would make sense though since Lyn makes the most sense as a rushdown character due to speed being more prominent in her skillset, and iaido characters aren't really in that category.

Seeing Lyn with a bow is always super weird to me. Like, she's a swordmaster, why do they keep giving her a bow?

She got a bow on promotion in her original game, and since FE is pretty heavy on swordfighters they often try to differentiate those lords in other games by having them use their secondary weapon.

 

[SharkLord]

I like the idea overall, though I think it's kind of funny that it would make Smash's dedicated iaido character not have The Stance (TM). It would make sense though since Lyn makes the most sense as a rushdown character due to speed being more prominent in her skillset, and iaido characters aren't really in that category.

Seeing Lyn with a bow is always super weird to me. Like, she's a swordmaster, why do they keep giving her a bow?

I'd imagine The Stance would probably be present in some smash attacks, or perhaps the down or side specials during the start of the move. She's the designated iaido fighter in this scenario, surely she'd have it somewhere.

She got a bow on promotion in her original game, and since FE is pretty heavy on swordfighters they often try to differentiate those lords in other games by having them use their secondary weapon.

Going a bit deeper, I think Lyn was given a bow on promotion in the first place because her people, the Sacaeans, are based on nomadic cultures of the Eurasian Steppe, which are known for their horse archers (Lyn doesn't have a horse, admittedly, but she does still have a bow). The Sacaeans are a group of nomadic steppe tribes, and Sacae is actually the Latin name of a real historical people, also known as the Saka, themselves a part of the greater Scythian realm. As it turns out, the capital of Sacae is Bulgar - Who were also horse nomads before settling down and becoming modern Bulgaria - And the strongest Sacaean tribe, the Kutolah, are named after Genghis Khan's great-uncle.

Oh yeah, and they live in yurts. Or gers, if you're Mongolian. Engage shows them in full 3D for Lyn's paralogues, and her map is a bunch of yurts in the plains.

Like, that's not Fire Emblem just taking random names from European history (And they tend to do that quite a bit), that's 100% intentional. By extension, that would technically make Lyn the first Central Asian character in Smash. On that note, the paralogue map with the yurts would make a pretty fun stage.

or we could have a flat stage that's an infinite field of grass, like in Mongolia

 

[SPEN18]

the main quirk I had in mind is that all her attacks come out lightning fast, but have significant endlag that leave her open if she misses. If we want to capitalize on her speed and let her do some combos, maybe the endlag is decreased if she lands a hit, making her a big risk vs reward fighter - Play her right, and you'll have a blazing fast combo monster. Drop the combo even once, and you're a sitting duck.

Yeah that would be one good way to do it...a high-risk, high-reward fighter is pretty much like she's supposed to be...one that seeks to strike multiple times in quick succession, eliminating the opponent before they can catch up to her, but one mistake could prove very costly to her.

Side special would be the quick-draw rush that only launches after she sheaths her sword (Because it's cool that way). Visually, maybe it'd look something like her normal attack animation

This animation was literally made for Smash side special lol.

Up special, something like her Sol Katti attack animation. First input would have her bolt upwards lightning-quick, like Marth's Dolphin Slash. Second input would make her do the downward spinning move

Hm, an interesting take. I like the first part of that animation for the initial strike, but not sure how I feel about the downward part after.
One idea I had before (not sure if it would end up as imagined in practice) was to make her Up special sort of an aerial variant of Dancing Blade, with multiple timed inputs leading to successive strikes in an upward trajectory, and with a few tilt-directional options for a unique, Astra-like move.
But other more stock options like a single input leading to an upward flurry of strikes, or a simple pseudo-warp move would also be possible.

Down special, the Judgement Cut-looking attack that Swordmasters have for crits in Engage. I don't know if there's a clip lying around on the internet but just know it's pretty Judgement Cut-y

Something like that could also be a Smash attack, potentially freeing up Down special for something else.

She definitely wouldn't have a blocking counter like Marth or Ike, that would be so not her style.

Something focused on evasion could be good, could be the spot for a pseudo-warp or Double-Team-like move if it's not on Up special.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lyn has great potential for Smash indeed. And her timeless popularity might just make it happen.

This is why I really hope to see more Fire Emblem Echoes type of remakes. I know FE4 is being rumored for the longest time, but I do hope they hurry up a little and remake FE6 and 7 into one game.

And while they're at it, FE9 and 10.

 

[fogbadge]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1: well I think it's a nice selection of series and I think it's good that they get a little something. a lot of these stages are really fun and make for solid inclusions. as for deserving, well I don't see why not

2: hmm difficult to say. if we're going back to the old way of doing stages then I imagine only a few of them will return. Miiverse I'm fairly certain wont return. not without actual miiverse

3: this is another tricky one cuase the question becomes who do you make playable? a number of them are mii games, wrecking crew is a mario game and the rest are from dormant series. miiverse doesn't even have characters. so let's look at some choices a little closer. nintendogs? well every time they come up on this forum it's clear this where the line is drawn. even then series is asleep. foreman spike? a one off character who hadn't been seen in years until a minor role in the film which could have been filled by any random made up thing. he makes geno look like a constant character. not happening. don't know enough about electroplankton or pilotwings' own character to comment. but both have been dormant for a while now so it's not looking good. honestly the balloon fighter is the only one who I think has a shot, getting in as a retro character. even then I'm not convinced

4: hmm I'm not sure. in the past I would have suggested Pullblox and Boxboy. maybe one of the recent revivals like Another Code or Big Brain Academy but that's a big maybe

5: not really. I mean the game counts the miis as smash characters

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Final Smash? Probably Astra. The Sol Katti crit animation already covers the general idea; a barrage of lightning-fast slashes

Engage gave her a perfect Final Smash, tbh

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of stages Dedede and ganondorf need their castles too!
Granted old G dorf like hanging out in hyrule castle too so who knows!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Asked AI to predict Smash Bros. newcomers for a new game. Interesting answers that aren't as far removed from what most of us are thinking.

According to Ask AI & Question AI www.iAsk.ai:

Predictions for Newcomer Characters in a New Smash Bros Game

When considering potential newcomer characters for the next installment of the Super Smash Bros. franchise, several factors come into play, including popularity, recent game releases, and the overall direction of Nintendo’s franchises. Here’s a detailed breakdown of likely candidates:

1. Octoling The Octolings have been established as significant characters in the Splatoon series since their introduction in Splatoon 2. Their inclusion as playable fighters seems almost guaranteed due to their popularity and established presence alongside Inklings. The most probable implementation would be as a clone or semi-clone of the Inklings, or possibly as alternate costumes if the character customization options expand beyond previous limitations.

2. Waluigi Waluigi remains one of the most requested characters among fans despite his absence from previous games. While there has been speculation about his inclusion being unlikely due to developer disinterest, his iconic status within the Mario franchise and ongoing fan demand could lead to his eventual addition. Given that many major characters have already been included in past titles, Waluigi fits well into various roster scenarios.

3. A Character from The Legend of Zelda With recent successes like Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, it is highly likely that a new character from The Legend of Zelda series will be introduced. Potential candidates include characters such as Sidon or Riju from Breath of the Wild, or Purah and Kohga from Tears of the Kingdom. These characters not only have unique abilities but also represent popular aspects of their respective games.

4. Geno With the remake of Super Mario RPG released recently, Geno’s chances for inclusion are heightened significantly. His nostalgic value and unique design make him an appealing choice for fans who have long awaited his return to gaming prominence.

5. Dixie Kong Dixie Kong is another strong contender given her status as a beloved character within the Donkey Kong franchise. With ongoing multimedia projects surrounding Donkey Kong, her addition would align well with Nintendo’s current marketing strategies.

6. Bandana Waddle Dee As a core character in the Kirby series, Bandana Waddle Dee has gained considerable recognition among fans and could easily fit into a new roster as a representative fighter for Kirby.

7. A Fire Emblem Engage Character Given the consistent representation of Fire Emblem characters in Smash Bros., it’s reasonable to expect another addition from this franchise. Timerra stands out due to her role as one of Engage’s main lords and her potential for an engaging moveset.

8. Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic) Shadow has become increasingly popular among Sonic fans and represents an interesting counterpart to Sonic himself, making him a viable candidate for inclusion in future titles.

9. Chun-Li (Street Fighter) Chun-Li is often regarded as one of gaming’s most iconic female fighters and adding her would enhance representation within third-party franchises while appealing to both Street Fighter fans and newcomers alike.

10. Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure) Given Ring Fit Adventure’s success on Switch, introducing its protagonist could provide fresh gameplay mechanics based on fitness themes that resonate with players looking for innovative experiences.

In summary, these predictions reflect both fan desires and strategic choices by Nintendo based on current trends within their franchises.

Top 3 Authoritative Sources Used

• Nintendo Official Website: This source provides official announcements regarding game releases, character rosters, and updates on franchises.
• IGN: A leading gaming news outlet that offers insights into industry trends, character popularity polls, and analysis on game mechanics which can influence roster decisions.
• GameSpot: Another reputable gaming news platform that covers announcements related to Nintendo games and provides community feedback on character requests through forums and articles.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

She got a bow on promotion in her original game, and since FE is pretty heavy on swordfighters they often try to differentiate those lords in other games by having them use their secondary weapon.

Huh. I thought she was sword locked. The more you know...

 

[NintenRob]

Birdo should be an assist trophy

She's kinda perfect the role and she's been showing up a lot more often lately, though doesn't really have the sauce to really be playable though a playable Birdo would be hilarious and cause so much outrage I'm kinda here for it

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Birdo should be an assist trophy

She's kinda perfect the role and she's been showing up a lot more often lately, though doesn't really have the sauce to really be playable though a playable Birdo would be hilarious and cause so much outrage I'm kinda here for it

I still think she'd make a great Echo Fighter for Yoshi. At bare minimum, just change the grab animations and remove Egg Lay for something better else.

Actually, Super Mario Strikers had her do a lot of inhaling the ball and firing it out of her schnoz like a cannon, so theoretically she could do something like that in place of Egg Lay. Or if she must be mostly 1-1, perhaps it's how she performs Egg Lay; dropping the egg in front of her instead of behind.

 

[smashkirby]

Their tails might be too stubby for tail attacks, which is admittedly another reason why Sakurai would be against making Pichu a Pikachu costume.

Oh, yeah... what's more, I wonder if their tails being plus and minus-shaped might also be a dealbreaker...

I don't think it'd be possible to do an 8-in-1 when part of the thing with Custom Robos is the different stats, abilities and whatnot. Some of the Ray series could get away with being alts, but other Robos and other Ray series Robos, not so much.

A Hero/Sora scenario would probably be more likely. My preferable scenario would be Ray, Ray MKII, Ray MKIII and Ray 01, since all four are quite close in stats and have the same abilities, though Ray 01 is really overdesigned compared to the other 3 and it's model could conflict with hitboxes. But it would be my preferred set-up. For the 4 Alt colors:

• Ray's would be Ray Sky colors, with an add-on visor.
• Ray MKII's would be Ray MKII Dark's colors.
• Ray MKIII's colors would be a fully gold plated color scheme for 3 reasons. To reflect the gold coloring a Robo gets using Soul Boost, to be a reference to AIRS, the gold-plated military version of Ray Sky, and as a reference to actual real-life gold-plated versions of toys and whatnot.
• None of the remaining Ray models would have different enough colors for Ray 01. While Ray Warrior can be considered a soup-up version of Ray 01, Ray Warrior has a different model from Ray 01 and it's colors aren't that different enough from Ray 01s. So as a fitting compromise, Ray 01's colors are based off of Glory, a Shining Fighter Robo that originated in the same game as Ray 01 and is also the Robo primarily used by the Hero's best friend. It also gives a Green-colored option for Ray to go with the Ray series mainly Red/Blue/White colors, Ray Sky's mostly Blue/White colors, Ray Dark's purple/black colors and the gold-plated Ray MKIII colors.

Yeah, I imagine it'd be a technological thing that would prevent multiple Custom Robos from sharing a slot. I mean, I think Sakurai himself has alluded to characters he's wanted to implement into Smash via this concept, and it just never panned out, so...

All in all, if I'm being completely honest? Your idea right there is what I'm moreso expecting to happen for Ray in Smash (not that I'd be disappointed by this in any way, of course). Really, the ONLY Ray model I see having even the slightest bit of difficulty to work with would probably be the more intricately-designed Ray 01.

Still though, if you're worried about Ray 01 being overdesigned... what about X-Ray from Custom Robo GX (for GBA)?

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1. Honestly, I don't think there's a series that joins Smash that I'll ever say "it doesn't deserve to be in". If a series is in, it's in.

2. Not totally sure here. This many series? I feel like things could go any which way. If I had to be specific? I think everything but Electroplankton and Miiverse have a decent shot at returning for future games.

3. As someone who's more than welcoming of first-party series getting playable characters, I'd be fine with these series getting such representation, if they were able to make something work. In particular, I'll always believe that Pilotwings very much has its pick of the lot with the cast of Pilotwings 64 (Lark, in particular). What's more, there ARE folks like Foreman Spike and even the Wandering Heroes out there and let's not TOTALLY rule out Balloon Fighter as a pick.

4. At the moment, not much is coming to my mind. For the record, while I would prefer that MOST of the following series get playable characters, I suppose I'd be fine with just stages for them too. Brain Age, Rhythm Heaven, Nintendo Land, Cruis'n (the one series where, unless Nintendo pulled a Hornet in Fighters' Megamix, I don't ever see getting a playable character), Excitebike and more that just isn't coming to my mind right now.

5. Meh, not really. Smash Bros. itself feels like it places itself as a sort-of "beyond your concept" thing compared to other series. What's more, Smash itself TECHNICALLY has the Miis, so...

 

[Gengar84]

Asked AI to predict Smash Bros. newcomers for a new game. Interesting answers that aren't as far removed from what most of us are thinking.

Yeah, those all sound pretty reasonable, if a bit unexciting. Depending on the movesets and what Zelda characters they add, it could still be a solid roster. I do wish we’d get a few more third parties at least and it’s a bit curious that they don’t suggest another Pokémon or Xenoblade character.

That list makes a lot more sense than what Chat GPT was suggesting. For some reason, it says that they should add Magik from X-Men. I like X-Men but I had to google who that character was. Needless to say, I don’t think we’re getting an X-Men character most people have never heard of. It gave a lot of reasonable suggestions too but some of the choices were pretty out there lol.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I still think she'd make a great Echo Fighter for Yoshi. At bare minimum, just change the grab animations and remove Egg Lay for something better else.

Actually, Super Mario Strikers had her do a lot of inhaling the ball and firing it out of her schnoz like a cannon, so theoretically she could do something like that in place of Egg Lay. Or if she must be mostly 1-1, perhaps it's how she performs Egg Lay; dropping the egg in front of her instead of behind.

She could probably take most of Yoshi's moves without issue, but I don't think she'd be an echo. Unless I missed her doing it once, I don't think she can Flutter Jump, which would mean she can't use Yoshi's unique double jump, which is a core part of his strategy. That alone would change her gameplan a lot and would almost certainty mandate rebalancing on the rest of her kit/attributes to make up for it.

She would be a great Melee clone though. I actually made a moveset for her about a week ago, basically made her a slower, stronger Yoshi who trades defense for offense, might post it if I can find it.

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, I imagine it'd be a technological thing that would prevent multiple Custom Robos from sharing a slot. I mean, I think Sakurai himself has alluded to characters he's wanted to implement into Smash via this concept, and it just never panned out, so...

All in all, if I'm being completely honest? Your idea right there is what I'm moreso expecting to happen for Ray in Smash (not that I'd be disappointed by this in any way, of course). Really, the ONLY Ray model I see having even the slightest bit of difficulty to work with would probably be the more intricately-designed Ray 01.

Still though, if you're worried about Ray 01 being overdesigned... what about X-Ray from Custom Robo GX (for GBA)?

My biggest problem with X-Ray is that Ray MKII and X-Ray look too similar, especially when Custom Robo Arena gave Ray MKII the face mask like X-Ray. The other reason is that aside from the first Ray, the other 3 Rays I chose had some importance in the games that released in the West. Custom Robo Arena started you with Ray MKII, then eventually gave you Ray MKIII and Custom Robo BR(or just Custom Robo in the West) started you with Ray 01.
The first Ray is there because obviously, it was the first playable Robo in the series. Leaving X-Ray which was only the main character's starter Robo in the JP-only GBA game and simply an unlockable in Arena. Sure, X-Ray, kinda like MKII to MKIII, did become Ray Sky in the GBA game, but Ray Sky was not only a different class, being a Lightning Sky instead of the standard Shining Fighter, but in Custom Robo Arena, it was given a very bulky upper body, much bigger than even Ray 01's, so Ray Sky itself definitely would not have worked as an alternate, though it's colors work just fine for Ray.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

She could probably take most of Yoshi's moves without issue, but I don't think she'd be an echo. Unless I missed her doing it once, I don't think she can Flutter Jump, which would mean she can't use Yoshi's unique double jump, which is a core part of his strategy. That alone would change her gameplan a lot and would almost certainty mandate rebalancing on the rest of her kit/attributes to make up for it.

She'd probably end up more like the Melee clones.

I feel like this is a case of "Daisy can't float". Has she done it before? Not to my knowledge, though she has been depicted flying in the Super Mario Bros. Super Show! (not that that's cannon). Could she do it? Considering how much they've homogenized her and Yoshi to the point of retroactively changing the look of her eggs to look like pink Yoshi eggs and adding multi-colored Birdos, it really wouldn't be a stretch to do so. Daisy having Toads is honestly way worse in that lens.

 

[Kirbeh]

Semi related since the current topic is Yoshi/Birdo.

I think they should remove Egg Roll and make Egg Throw Side Special with the actual aiming/firing from Yoshi's Island.

I haven't thought of an up special replacement yet but if the idea is that it still doesn't necessarily need to be an actual recovery move then there's definitely some flexibility in what you can do there. Though, if I'm being honest I would prefer an actual conventional recovery move of some kind.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Semi related since the current topic is Yoshi/Birdo.

I think they should remove Egg Roll and make Egg Throw Side Special with the actual aiming/firing from Yoshi's Island.

I haven't thought of an up special replacement yet but if the idea is that it still doesn't necessarily need to be an actual recovery move then there's definitely some flexibility in what you can do there. Though, if I'm being honest I would prefer an actual conventional recovery move of some kind.

With the use of watermelon seeds as a projectile in various games, you could probably make that the side special and keep the aiming of the egg throw to the up special. If you felt like going fancy with the former you could probably also create some condition where he can spit freeze or fire streams. Some might dispute Yoshi having such abilities automatically, but he's already throwing eggs without swallowing anything so cat's already out of the bag anyway.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I feel like this is a case of "Daisy can't float".

True, maybe I've got too much faith in Sakurai. I would hope that Smash 6 likely having a smaller roster means they could stop taking jarring shortcuts like this with their clones, but maybe I'm too optimistic.

At least she's probably not gonna be in regardless, so I won't have to cringe at her fluttering.
(response to you ends here)
--

Anyways since I found it, I might as well post a simplified version of my WIP Birdo moveset while she's still the subject of the thread.

Attributes/Design Concept

She is a more offensive variant of Yoshi who trades some of his movement speed and survivability for power and combo ability. She is slower than Yoshi, being closer to characters like Mario in speed, so she has no choice but to engage. She also lacks Yoshi's unique double jump, instead having a normal one because she evolved differently than him. She can't power through moves with jump armor like Yoshi can as a result, so she relies more on outboxing foes. Hence her greater offensive power.

Also worth pointing out these changes are relative to my own vision for Yoshi; I would rebalance Yoshi himself to be weaker offensively and more durable, so Birdo provides contrast in those areas.

Normal Attacks
Most are the same as Yoshi's, minus differences in attack properties (typically being stronger, coming out faster, etc.). There's a few different moves though;

• Dash attack is a running headbutt, like Yoshi's 64-Brawl dash attack. Not that Yoshi's current one can't work, but I feel like the headbutt fits her offensive gameplan more. Plus it lets us reuse a perfectly fine older asset. Launches at a less vertical angle and has lower base knockback that keeps the opponent closer to her for easier followups.
• Grabs are all done by using her succ to blow-uh, inhale the opponent, instead of tounging them. All of her throws are the same as Yoshi's.
  • Because of this, she has no z-air and cannot tether, furthering her as a less defensive character. (Context: My Yoshi changes include giving him a z-air and tether.)

Special Moves

• Neutral special: Egg. It's basically what you'd expect it to be, her signature egg puking. It has relatively low lag and moderate power (not enough to KO though), and is more to pester opponents and make them approach her. However if the opponent is able to get on top of the egg, they can pick it up and throw it back at her. But she can do the same thing, so ball's in your court dino girl.
  • Also, if the move hits a wall during recovery, she can land on the egg and basically get an extra grounded jump, but this requires her to be really close to the egg and is hard af to do. Coolness points if you can do it though.
• Up special: Name TBD. Since she has a new projectile, I decided she didn't need another. The lack of Yoshi's double jump also means her recovery would suck too much balls with his up B; so her new Up B has her point her mouth at the ground, then fire a burst of air from her mouth so forceful it sends her flying (TF2 Soldier type beat). The move grants moderate vertical recovery and subpar horizontal distance. Also provides a decently damaging hitbox when she goes upwards, with vertical knockback enough to KO at high precents, making it good for a vertical combo finisher, although endlag makes it punishable if whiffed.

Side and Down B are the same minus attack property differences. (I might change Yoshi's Side B, but it's not likely whatever I change it to would be something Birdo couldn't do)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1. I’m fine with them, it seems like the stages without fighters come from games without obvious playable candidates, which I think is a nice consolation. Elctroplankton is the most questionable inclusion, because the game is way more obscure than all the other included games, but I’m guessing it’s a stage that is very easy to make.

2. I would hope all of them, it would be a shame to lose a franchise’s stage representation, though Miiverse will likely never return, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Electroplankton get axed again.

3. Balloon Fighter might be cool, but otherwise not really.

4. I’m surprised Excitebike hasn’t received a stage yet, that seems like the next obvious thing, I could also see Pushmo and Brain Age. Again it seems like these stages are from franchises that will likely never get a playable fighter due to a lack of strong candidates, but assuming that’s just a coincidence I think Murasame Castle, Chibi-Robo, Rhythm Heaven, Dillon’s Rolling Western could potentially get stages.

5. I dunno, Mii Fighters are seemingly counted as Smash Bros. original characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

However if the opponent is able to get on top of the egg, they can pick it up and throw it back at her.

Due to how items work in Super Smash Bros. the eggs would probably be able to be picked up regardless of whether or not you're standing on it. Since they double as platforms though, I could see players being given the ability to pick them up while standing on them as if they were an item on the ground.

Thinking about it, the fact that they can act as mobile platforms could make them really cool utility projectiles if they were slow enough (or Birdo was fast enough) for you to take advantage of that fact without them getting reflected or something. Definitely an idea worth exploring.

EDIT: And the fact that the eggs are also items could balance out the idea since it means you can't do any ground moves while standing on them since you'd just pick them up and start falling, but you could use aerials and special moves, or shenanigans like picking them up and immediately z-dropping them and then doing an aerial or something to threaten even more space.

 

[Oracle Link]

I hope they give

Spoiler: Echoes of wisdom sidequest/ midgame spoiler and TOTK Final boss spoiler

The Puzzle boss from ages and eow a spirit next time arround!
That moment was the third most hyped ive been for a zelda game after the club link moment and link slaying the black dragon in totk!

The Oracles FINNALY Got some love they deserved it MUUCH eraly but i take this!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, those all sound pretty reasonable, if a bit unexciting. Depending on the movesets and what Zelda characters they add, it could still be a solid roster. I do wish we’d get a few more third parties at least and it’s a bit curious that they don’t suggest another Pokémon or Xenoblade character.

That list makes a lot more sense than what Chat GPT was suggesting. For some reason, it says that they should add Magik from X-Men. I like X-Men but I had to google who that character was. Needless to say, I don’t think we’re getting an X-Men character most people have never heard of. It gave a lot of reasonable suggestions too but some of the choices were pretty out there lol.

I really like asking AI these questions. Also asked them for a power ranking tier list for all characters in Ultimate. Was also interesting. I got the idea since someone here posted about Chat GPT.

Xenoblade and Pokemon missing is kinda weird though. Maybe cause they're discussed only because we expect them, and they're not as much wanted perse as expected?

 

[SharkLord]

Engage gave her a perfect Final Smash, tbh

Astra Storm feels a bit weird if we're doubling down on Lyn being the iaido fighter, since it's using a bow and not a sword. I dunno, I feel like she'd defer to sword strikes a bit more overall, even if she does have a few bow moves

 

[ninjahmos]

I've said this before, but if we get more Kirby music in the next game, I hope they'll include Kabula's Theme AKA Mint Breath.

 

[Pupp135]

How about some questions about franchises with stages but no fighters.

Just as a reminder the franchises with stages but no fighters are...

• Nintendo DS
• Electroplankton
• Balloon Fight
• Nintendogs
• Street Pass Mii Plaza / Find Mii
• Tomodachi
• Wrecking Crew
• Pilotwings
• Wii Sports
• Miiverse

So here are the questions.

1. What do you personally think of the chosen franchises? Are they good picks? Do this franchises deserve to be in?
2. Which stages do you think will return in future games?
3. Do you think any of these franchises deserve playable characters? If so, which ones?
4. What franchises do you think will join these ones?
5. Do you think Super Smash Bros counts as one of these franchises?

1. I think these universes were cool to see, and most of these do play a large role in Nintendo’s history. Overall, I think these franchises earned a spot.
2. I’d guess that Pictochat, Living Room, and Wuhu Island are the likeliest stages to return.
3. I don’t like to use the word deserve when talking about newcomers, but Crusade has an interesting Balloon Fighter moveset. While I don’t expect these franchises to receive a fighter, I’m open to seeing them have one.
4. If we focus on the NES era, I could see Excitebike joining these series if Excitebike Rider is not chosen for the next surprise fighter. The other franchise that might be in this type of group is Famicon Detective Club.
5. I think SSB is treated as a separate entity with its own universe.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Playing with AI again and having fun, asked it to make a Impa move set, this is the result:

Impa's Possible Moveset:
If Impa were to be included in a future Smash Bros. game, her moveset would likely focus on speed, trickery, and shadow manipulation, with a touch of Zelda lore. Below is a possible breakdown of her moveset:
Basic Attacks:

• Neutral Attack (Jab Combo): Quick, agile sword slashes with her Naginata (staff-like weapon). She could use multiple slashes in rapid succession, similar to Sheik's fast jab but with a more fluid motion.
• Forward Tilt: A swift kick followed by a sword slash in an arc in front of her. The kick would have a slight knockback effect, while the sword slash would deal medium damage.
• Up Tilt: A jumping, spinning strike with her sword, aiming above her head. This could be a good anti-air attack, hitting multiple times in quick succession.
• Down Tilt: A low sweeping kick or crouching sword swipe designed to trip or knock down enemies. It could also have a small range to hit opponents who are trying to approach her.

Smash Attacks:

• Forward Smash: Charging Strike with her Naginata or a shadow-based sword slashing technique. This would have a long reach and good knockback, with a shadow effect to add extra flair and connection to her Sheikah abilities.
• Up Smash: Summoning a Shadow Clone of herself to strike upward with a quick, multi-hit spinning sword attack. The shadow clone could briefly appear and deal damage, providing an interesting clone mechanic for her attack.
• Down Smash: Dual-sword spinning attack with both her dagger and Naginata. This would hit both sides of her and have moderate knockback.

Aerial Attacks:

• Neutral Air: Quick spinning attack with her sword, similar to Sheik's neutral air, but with a more extended range as she twirls her Naginata around her body.
• Forward Air: A fast slash with her sword that could also have a shadow projectile element (perhaps a mini-wave of shadow energy that extends a short distance).
• Back Air: A powerful kick, sending opponents away with good knockback. This could reflect Impa’s ninja agility, using a backflip or somersault to hit enemies behind her.
• Up Air: A rising slash, similar to Sheik’s up air, but with added reach from her Naginata, making it ideal for juggling.
• Down Air: Diving thrust with her sword in front of her, dealing damage as she falls. This could also have a spike effect similar to Sheik's down air.

Special Moves:

• Neutral Special: Shadow Strike – Impa charges a ball of shadow energy and throws it forward, dealing damage to anyone in its path. Upon impact, the shadow explodes in a small AoE (area of effect).
• Side Special: Sheikah Teleportation – Impa quickly teleports a short distance in the direction she is facing, similar to Sheik's teleportation move, but with a unique shadow afterimage. The move could also be used to cancel out of attacks for quick recovery.
• Up Special: Ninja Surge – Impa launches herself upward using a shadow clone or an explosion of energy beneath her, sending her into the air quickly. It could have a brief invincibility period during the launch phase.
• Down Special: Defensive Shield (Sheikah Barrier) – Impa summons a shadow barrier that reflects projectiles or deflects incoming attacks, much like Link's Shield. The barrier could have a limited duration, but it would act as a good defensive tool.

Final Smash:

• Sheikah Wrath: Impa summons multiple shadow clones to surround the battlefield and launch a barrage of shadow slashes. She could then perform a powerful, multi-hit combo where she and the clones rapidly slash enemies, with the final attack being a massive, area-wide explosion of shadow energy, sending opponents flying.

Taunts:

• Taunt 1: Impa strikes a confident ninja pose with a brief smirk before disappearing in a puff of smoke and reappearing in the same spot.
• Taunt 2: Impa summons a small shadow clone of herself, which mimics her movement for a brief period.
• Taunt 3: Impa holds her sword aloft and then kneels in a solemn, warrior-like stance, similar to her more serious appearances in the Zelda series.

Summary of Impa’s Playstyle:

• Impa would likely be a high-speed, agile fighter focusing on quick strikes, shadow-based abilities, and strategic movement. She could utilize clone techniques, teleportation, and shadow strikes to create a tricky, evasive playstyle. Her quick combos and ability to close gaps would make her a versatile fighter, capable of outmaneuvering and outsmarting opponents.
• Her defensive options, like the shadow barrier, would help her mitigate damage from ranged fighters, while her teleportation abilities would make her highly mobile. Her Final Smash would be flashy and powerful, representing her ninja prowess and the Sheikah clan’s mystical abilities.

Overall, Impa would be a dynamic, fast-paced character, combining swordplay, ninja stealth, and shadow magic to create a unique and exciting fighting style in the Smash universe.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Playing with AI again and having fun, asked it to make a Impa move set, this is the result:

Impa's Possible Moveset:
If Impa were to be included in a future Smash Bros. game, her moveset would likely focus on speed, trickery, and shadow manipulation, with a touch of Zelda lore. Below is a possible breakdown of her moveset:
Basic Attacks:

• Neutral Attack (Jab Combo): Quick, agile sword slashes with her Naginata (staff-like weapon). She could use multiple slashes in rapid succession, similar to Sheik's fast jab but with a more fluid motion.
• Forward Tilt: A swift kick followed by a sword slash in an arc in front of her. The kick would have a slight knockback effect, while the sword slash would deal medium damage.
• Up Tilt: A jumping, spinning strike with her sword, aiming above her head. This could be a good anti-air attack, hitting multiple times in quick succession.
• Down Tilt: A low sweeping kick or crouching sword swipe designed to trip or knock down enemies. It could also have a small range to hit opponents who are trying to approach her.

Smash Attacks:

• Forward Smash: Charging Strike with her Naginata or a shadow-based sword slashing technique. This would have a long reach and good knockback, with a shadow effect to add extra flair and connection to her Sheikah abilities.
• Up Smash: Summoning a Shadow Clone of herself to strike upward with a quick, multi-hit spinning sword attack. The shadow clone could briefly appear and deal damage, providing an interesting clone mechanic for her attack.
• Down Smash: Dual-sword spinning attack with both her dagger and Naginata. This would hit both sides of her and have moderate knockback.

Aerial Attacks:

• Neutral Air: Quick spinning attack with her sword, similar to Sheik's neutral air, but with a more extended range as she twirls her Naginata around her body.
• Forward Air: A fast slash with her sword that could also have a shadow projectile element (perhaps a mini-wave of shadow energy that extends a short distance).
• Back Air: A powerful kick, sending opponents away with good knockback. This could reflect Impa’s ninja agility, using a backflip or somersault to hit enemies behind her.
• Up Air: A rising slash, similar to Sheik’s up air, but with added reach from her Naginata, making it ideal for juggling.
• Down Air: Diving thrust with her sword in front of her, dealing damage as she falls. This could also have a spike effect similar to Sheik's down air.

Special Moves:

• Neutral Special: Shadow Strike – Impa charges a ball of shadow energy and throws it forward, dealing damage to anyone in its path. Upon impact, the shadow explodes in a small AoE (area of effect).
• Side Special: Sheikah Teleportation – Impa quickly teleports a short distance in the direction she is facing, similar to Sheik's teleportation move, but with a unique shadow afterimage. The move could also be used to cancel out of attacks for quick recovery.
• Up Special: Ninja Surge – Impa launches herself upward using a shadow clone or an explosion of energy beneath her, sending her into the air quickly. It could have a brief invincibility period during the launch phase.
• Down Special: Defensive Shield (Sheikah Barrier) – Impa summons a shadow barrier that reflects projectiles or deflects incoming attacks, much like Link's Shield. The barrier could have a limited duration, but it would act as a good defensive tool.

Final Smash:

• Sheikah Wrath: Impa summons multiple shadow clones to surround the battlefield and launch a barrage of shadow slashes. She could then perform a powerful, multi-hit combo where she and the clones rapidly slash enemies, with the final attack being a massive, area-wide explosion of shadow energy, sending opponents flying.

Taunts:

• Taunt 1: Impa strikes a confident ninja pose with a brief smirk before disappearing in a puff of smoke and reappearing in the same spot.
• Taunt 2: Impa summons a small shadow clone of herself, which mimics her movement for a brief period.
• Taunt 3: Impa holds her sword aloft and then kneels in a solemn, warrior-like stance, similar to her more serious appearances in the Zelda series.

Summary of Impa’s Playstyle:

• Impa would likely be a high-speed, agile fighter focusing on quick strikes, shadow-based abilities, and strategic movement. She could utilize clone techniques, teleportation, and shadow strikes to create a tricky, evasive playstyle. Her quick combos and ability to close gaps would make her a versatile fighter, capable of outmaneuvering and outsmarting opponents.
• Her defensive options, like the shadow barrier, would help her mitigate damage from ranged fighters, while her teleportation abilities would make her highly mobile. Her Final Smash would be flashy and powerful, representing her ninja prowess and the Sheikah clan’s mystical abilities.

Overall, Impa would be a dynamic, fast-paced character, combining swordplay, ninja stealth, and shadow magic to create a unique and exciting fighting style in the Smash universe.

Can you ask the AI about what Ayumi Tachibana's moveset would be like?

 

[Ivander]

Can you ask the AI about what Ayumi Tachibana's moveset would be like?

I'm awaiting the bizarre shenanigans the AI will bring.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Asked AI to predict Smash Bros. newcomers for a new game. Interesting answers that aren't as far removed from what most of us are thinking.

That just means our thoughts are such an echo chamber that it's easy for AI to copy them.

Not sure how to feel about that...

sword slashes with her Naginata (staff-like weapon)

This is so wrong it's hilarious

Astra Storm feels a bit weird if we're doubling down on Lyn being the iaido fighter, since it's using a bow and not a sword. I dunno, I feel like she'd defer to sword strikes a bit more overall, even if she does have a few bow moves

Compromise; she gets two and the bow one is for when no one's close

 

[Ivander]

This is so wrong it's hilarious

You attach a sword to a lamp post, BAM, it's a Naginata. Or was it a spear? Actually, the sword was put on backwards and the blunt end is pointing, so it's a staff now.

 

[SharkLord]

I think we shoud have an AI-generated Smash original fighter next game. For its neutral special, it generates a paragraph of text and burns as much electricity as a lightbulb left on for 20 minutes. For its final smash, it taps into your local electricity grid and kicks it into overdrive, causing your county to exceed the carbon emission quotas ten times over. If this abomination ends up a high tier, Smash tournaments alone will make the Earth's global temperature rise by 1 whole degree in Celsius by 2050

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think we shoud have an AI-generated Smash original fighter next game. For its neutral special, it generates a paragraph of text and burns as much electricity as a lightbulb left on for 20 minutes. For its final smash, it taps into your local electricity grid and kicks it into overdrive, causing your county to exceed the carbon emission quotas ten times over. If this abomination ends up a high tier, Smash tournaments alone will make the Earth's global temperature rise by 1 whole degree in Celsius by 2050

That sounds like a character with a cryptomining mechanic

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

That AI character will also lead to the first Smash fighter to also be an NFT which will supposedly greatly increase SSB's overall value even though no one will ever be able to explain how.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How would that AI character's grab work if the fingers are all messed up?

 

[Guynamednelson]

How would that AI character's grab work if the fingers are all messed up?

More fingers just makes it easier.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Tekken 8 started with 35 characters and KoF XV started with 39.

To show you how exceptional this is, traditional FGC games these days seem to struggle having a starting roster in the 20s.

That supports Smash not starting with more than 40, let alone 70+.

If those two very recent games can have relatively big rosters for their genre, I don't see how Smash can't have more than 40 characters in the next game.

I didn't say Smash can't have more than 40 characters. What's absurd is expecting 89+.

Assuming gameplay and character changes are the next game's sync, we could still probably get something between Brawl and SSB4's numbers (granted, Brawl's number is below 40, if by one).

So you agree that expecting 70+ is absurd, given that assumption.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So you agree that expecting 70+ is absurd, given that assumption.

I was never arguing that we'd get 70+, I was arguing that we probably won't be getting less than 40.

Did the 70+ come from that discussion about potentially getting 100 fighters? If so, both me and The Stoopid Unikorn were pretty firmly in the camp of "ain't no way that's happening. We just also thought that below 40 is a bit far in the opposite direction.

 

[ninjahmos]

I hope the background for the next game's Battlefield is just like Smash 64's Duel Zone and Melee's Battlefield.

Battlefield's background has basically been sky, clouds and unseen field ever since Brawl, and as nice as that is, it's also kind of boring. Bring back the dark sci-fi void for the Battlefield.