Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

All things are possible through infinite wealth. And Smash generates infinite wealth.

Dude, we've been over this. That's not how it works.

Why do you keep insisting that they should keep every character under the sun when there's so much more to Smash than just the roster?

 

[Ivander]

Imagine if Smash 6 pulled a Ruby/Sapphire and went "NO veterans! ALL newcomers!"

That's Black & White, not Ruby and Sapphire. And even then, Black & White had older Pokemon post main-game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I hope Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition has a dual release with the next console or releases a decent while before it's announced/released and isn't just buried under the new console making it once again perform badly compared to the other games in the series.

That's Black & White, not Ruby and Sapphire. And even then, Black & White had older Pokemon post main-game.

IIRC Pokémon Ruby/Saphire either did this too, or didn't allow you to trade from previous systems initially, which was a pain point for those games.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I hope Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition has a dual release with the next console or releases a decent while before it's announced/released and isn't just buried under the new console making it once again perform badly compared to the other games in the series.


IIRC Pokémon Ruby/Saphire either did this too, or didn't allow you to trade from previous systems initially, which was a pain point for those games.

It didn't allow you to transfer from GSC because of the ability and nature additions and the changes to the EV system I'm pretty sure, at least until the Virtual Console releases to Bank.

Ruby and Sapphire definitely have older Pokemon in them though, like Magikarp in fishing spots, Marill in surfable bodies of water, Sandshrew in the desert near Mt. Chimney, Machop/Grimer/Koffing in Jagged Pass, etc etc.

 

[Ivander]

Anyway, on the subject of Nintendo crossovers and Subspace Emissary...Smash Bros. is obviously not going to do another big story like Subspace Emissary. So why don't people suggest a new Nintendo crossover game that tries to do what Subspace Emissary gave us? It may be hard to imagine a new Nintendo crossover game happening, but it's certainly not an impossibility.

I think I ask this because I once saw a thread in regards to people suggesting what take they would like to see a Nintendo crossover try and saw someone suggest something like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, where it's a singleplayer/Co-op experience with a team of Nintendo characters fighting against different enemies and bosses from different Nintendo franchises and the Nintendo characters uniting to fight against whatever enemy is causing the dimensional shenanigans and whatnot.
And when I saw that, I was like, "Huh, thinking about it, it's because of Nintendo and Koei Tecmo that we got Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, since Nintendo funded and published it and KT developed it. And Koei Tecmo did both Hyrule Warriors and Fire Emblem Warriors, both of which started with a crossover-focused entry and then later got an entry connected to a main game. A Nintendo-crossover game done by Koei Tecmo doesn't sound like an impossibility."
And it would give Nintendo fans what they've been asking for in regards to Nintendo crossover interaction and another attempt at a crossover story like Subspace Emissary, except rather than trying to tie in and put a whole crossover story into a multiplayer focused game 1/3 it's size, it's making a singleplayer/Co-op focused game along with the story in mind, between characters, level designs, enemies and bosses, gameplay mechanics, extra modes and whatnot.

And there would certainly be the possibility of more side characters appearing alongside the main heroes, especially if keeping the focus on team-ups. Like besides the usual characters like Mario, Link, Kirby and whatnot, if the focus has characters defending their worlds from empowered foes, they can add side characters of that main characters' world as playable characters, like being able to have a team of Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy(or Krystal) or depending on which Mother/Earthbound world is being defended, it could be Ness, Paula, Jeff and Poo or Lucas, Kumatora, Duster and Boney(or Flint).
And team-ups don't necessarily need to consist of characters from one world. Like one area could be a conglomerate of different NES Stand-alone game worlds that happened to get merged together. And they could add characters that can have an interesting team-up in terms of origin or something along those lines. Like having Link, Samus, Pit and Takamaru as "Team 1986", or something like Ice Climbers, Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land, Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider for a "Nintendo VS." Team-up, in reference to their Nintendo VS. System Arcade game versions.

Either way, IMO, if we ever get another Nintendo-crossover story like Subspace, it's not going to be Smash Bros that brings another one, between how much it took to make it and Sakurai wanting people to play to experience instead of just immediately spoiling themselves on the internet. But I certainly wouldn't mind a different attempt at a Nintendo-crossover game that was made with the story in tandem to account for gameplay, mechanics, level designs, characters, enemies and bosses, and whatnot. And after remembering Koei Tecmo and their experience with both Nintendo games and crossover-focused titles like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, I wouldn't mind if Koei Tecmo did a Nintendo-crossover take similar to M:UA3.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Anyway, on the subject of Nintendo crossovers and Subspace Emissary...Smash Bros. is obviously not going to do another big story like Subspace Emissary. So why don't people suggest a new Nintendo crossover game that tries to do what Subspace Emissary gave us? It may be hard to imagine a new Nintendo crossover game happening, but it's certainly not an impossibility.

I think I ask this because I once saw a thread in regards to people suggesting what take they would like to see a Nintendo crossover try and saw someone suggest something like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, where it's a singleplayer/Co-op experience with a team of Nintendo characters fighting against different enemies and bosses from different Nintendo franchises and the Nintendo characters uniting to fight against whatever enemy is causing the dimensional shenanigans and whatnot.
And when I saw that, I was like, "Huh, thinking about it, it's because of Nintendo and Koei Tecmo that we got Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, since Nintendo funded and published it and KT developed it. And Koei Tecmo did both Hyrule Warriors and Fire Emblem Warriors, both of which started with a crossover-focused entry and then later got an entry connected to a main game. A Nintendo-crossover game done by Koei Tecmo doesn't sound like an impossibility."
And it would give Nintendo fans what they've been asking for in regards to Nintendo crossover interaction and another attempt at a crossover story like Subspace Emissary, except rather than trying to tie in and put a whole crossover story into a multiplayer focused game 1/3 it's size, it's making a singleplayer/Co-op focused game along with the story in mind, between characters, level designs, enemies and bosses, gameplay mechanics, extra modes and whatnot.

And there would certainly be the possibility of more side characters appearing alongside the main heroes, especially if keeping the focus on team-ups. Like besides the usual characters like Mario, Link, Kirby and whatnot, if the focus has characters defending their worlds from empowered foes, they can add side characters of that main characters' world as playable characters, like being able to have a team of Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy(or Krystal) or depending on which Mother/Earthbound world is being defended, it could be Ness, Paula, Jeff and Poo or Lucas, Kumatora, Duster and Boney(or Flint).
And team-ups don't necessarily need to consist of characters from one world. Like one area could be a conglomerate of different NES Stand-alone game worlds that happened to get merged together. And they could add characters that can have an interesting team-up in terms of origin or something along those lines. Like having Link, Samus, Pit and Takamaru as "Team 1986", or something like Ice Climbers, Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land, Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider for a "Nintendo VS." Team-up, in reference to their Nintendo VS. System Arcade game versions.

Either way, IMO, if we ever get another Nintendo-crossover story like Subspace, it's not going to be Smash Bros that brings another one, between how much it took to make it and Sakurai wanting people to play to experience instead of just immediately spoiling themselves on the internet. But I certainly wouldn't mind a different attempt at a Nintendo-crossover game that was made with the story in tandem to account for gameplay, mechanics, level designs, characters, enemies and bosses, and whatnot. And after remembering Koei Tecmo and their experience with both Nintendo games and crossover-focused titles like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, I wouldn't mind if Koei Tecmo did a Nintendo-crossover take similar to M:UA3.

Honestly, if that one rumor somehow ends up being true and Monolith makes essentially Project X Zone with Nintendo characters? I'd be super down for that.

Of course, that also depends on the ARMS team making a Custom Robo game, so...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Part of why Pokemon doesn't have all Monsters back is that it's a significant amount of work in general to bring all back. Not to mention all the balance. Yes, they poorly gave out the reasons, there's no denying that. But at the end of the day, it's a massive time sink. It was never sustainable forever, and not even Gold and Silver had everyone immediately gettable without trading either way. Ruby and Sapphire at least had the excuse of "we can't actually trade from past generations due to the technology". But later on, they actually stopped supporting "gotta catch 'em all" too. It is worth noting this was not in the original Japanese design and made by the US branch. While it's a neat thing that worked fine for the anime and some earlier games, it was also dropped in the logos, anime, etc. after it was no longer the case. They don't actually advertise that as the core thing anymore.

No other franchise really went with that design anyway, bar updated re-releases at most. And they weren't large enough franchises to justify cuts due to not having enough games where it matters. Smash already doesn't do this, as proven by Brawl and 4. And even with some, Young Link and Pichu were not actually going to back in Brawl either way. 4 was impossible to return everyone too(due mainly to 3DS limitations, but the lack of Snake also suggests 3rd party licensing didn't work out too).

Either way, expecting to never have cuts isn't even a "pipe dream" in a long-running franchise with a significant amount of characters. It's a pure fantasy that ultimately will never ever happen. And infinite resources don't exist either. That's a cool concept, sure. But there are finite resources. There is only some time allowed. This isn't an Indie game with no release date either. They at least can push it out later, buuuuuut that doesn't mean their resources are infinite either.

That also said... obviously we know that kind of thing can't happen, so it might be a good point to just not... reply to obvious fantasy stuff like that? (BTW, a pipe dream is only something that has even a tiny chance of happening. That really obscure game character you like? It could happen. It's not very realistic, but it's not entirely impossible. Those are real pipe dreams. Infinite Resources? ...No kidding it can't happen. We aren't gods, you know. And even they probably have very specific rules to their abilities, which is kind of how everything works. There's a limit to everything, with no exceptions. You can definitely have wayyyyyy higher limits than others, but they'll always exist).

 

[Ivander]

Honestly, if that one rumor somehow ends up being true and Monolith makes essentially Project X Zone with Nintendo characters? I'd be super down for that.

Yeah, there is that rumor, but I remember before that one that somebody was posting in regards to Project X Zone 3 happening and it would still have Capcom, Sega and Namco characters. That said, I don't deny the possibility of more Nintendo characters, especially now that Monolith is 100% owned by Nintendo, being added to PxZ like how PxZ2 added Chrom, Lucina and Fiora, with Tiki as an NPC and Metal Face as an enemy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dude, we've been over this. That's not how it works.

Why do you keep insisting that they should keep every character under the sun when there's so much more to Smash than just the roster?

You guys gotta learn when Darth is joking.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

You guys gotta learn when Darth is joking.

It's either serious delusion or a joke that stopped being funny a long time ago.

Either way not a good look.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

That's Black & White, not Ruby and Sapphire. And even then, Black & White had older Pokemon post main-game.

One fact is that Gen 5 was the only Generation where Pikachu isn’t obtainable normally. It was only available by transfer and events despite being the mascot. Not even the Dream World mechanic by regular means.

Even in BW2 when they reversed the decision of only Gen 5 Pokemon.

 

[Kirbeh]

It's either serious delusion or a joke that stopped being funny a long time ago.

Either way not a good look.

I mean at this point it's just part of Darth. Darth not insisting on "EiH forever" is like Dukefire not using random images in their posts or a Verde post not being long (but informative!) or people not using spoiler tags for lists or me not making obscenely long run on sentences.

Much like the endless cycle of cuts talk and going in circles on other topics, we must accept the idea that Darth cannot accept the idea of no more EiH. (Or you'll eventually just filter it out automatically while skimming comments.)


Going back to adventure mode talk though, just give me a Kirby game with Smash characters. (I know SE was sort of that, but I want them to lean into it even more.

An actual story would be nice but I'm honestly down for just a bunch of no context levels to go through or at least a very simple story that doesn't require any cutscenes outside of an intro and ending.

Make adventure mode HP based instead of percent based. Give every character multiple jumps like Kirby (just in this mode.) No explanation given. Or if they really want to, make a little companion character of some kind that serves as the justification for that.

Maybe even put lore/story in the pause menus if Sakurai is insistent on not doing cutscenes or dialogue.

And use actual Nintendo locations and enemies this time.

 

[KatKit]

Yooooooo!!!!!

To this day, she’s still one of my most wanted characters, so this is great news:

She's a villain. She's a hero. She's retro. She's iconic. She's recognizable. She's a pop culture phenomenon. She was and still is the prime example of her respective genre. She has history with Nintendo. She has multigenerational appeal and she never faded into obscurity; she's always been relevant. She has countless games they can reference in her moveset. She is so wacky and such a great thief, she could introduce ridiculous mechanics/features like stealing moves and stage platforms, and distorting the sound of other character's audio/speech. She's a rare example of a character that can break the 4th wall and reference the real world that would still fit into Smash. Would be cool if she even did something like hijack a new (hypothetical) Smash website and used it to temporarily teach people fun facts about the world or history or something

Here’s an old moveset concept I did

She’s the best. I haven’t popped off like this in a cool minute LOL. To me, that Carmen game reveal is like a new Zelda being announced: hype. I will play the heck out of that game, shoestring budget and all, haha