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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

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With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?
It's got a good shot, but I wouldn't lock it in. I could easily see Dark Souls getting in before or after.

Less (probably much less) likely, but Digimon or Taiko no Tatsujin could also make their debut before Tales.
 

Perkilator

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With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?
A dark horse Namco rep I've always wanted would be Valkyrie from Namco's arcade days. She's a pretty prominent character in the Project X Zone series, and her moveset there would translate pretty well to a platform fighter.
 

Gengar84

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What do you all think of the chances of seeing a Tales character that isn’t Lloyd? I did love Symphonia but Lloyd never appealed to me much as a character. He just felt a bit basic compared to a lot of Tales characters that came after him. My favorites are Velvet and Alphen/Shionne as far as the main protagonists go. Yuri was also a great character but I don’t think he’d have quite as interesting a moveset as the others I mentioned. There’s a ton of side playable characters I love a lot too but I don’t see them as very likely. Zaveid at least has the claim of being the only Tales character in two separate games that aren’t direct numbered sequels.
 

Hadokeyblade

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What do you all think of the chances of seeing a Tales character that isn’t Lloyd? I did love Symphonia but Lloyd never appealed to me much as a character. He just felt a bit basic compared to a lot of Tales characters that came after him. My favorites are Velvet and Alphen/Shionne as far as the main protagonists go. Yuri was also a great character but I don’t think he’d have quite as interesting a moveset as the others I mentioned. There’s a ton of side playable characters I love a lot too but I don’t see them as very likely. Zaveid at least has the claim of being the only Tales character in two separate games that aren’t direct numbered sequels.
It's either going to be Lloyd because he's the one Smash fans have been asking for or its going to be Yuri because he's objectively the most popular protagonist of the series.

There's really no other options tbh
 

dezeray112

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Do you think Nightmare or Sol Badguy would make the “big 6” fighting game reps over any of these? I’m really happy to see Fulgore here though.
The Guilty Gear franchise has certainly made its mark within the fighting game genre for the past several years and it wouldn't surprise me if Sol Badguy is indeed the character to represent Arc System Works.

I still wish Namco can provide more support for the SoulCalibur franchise.

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?
I think Tales of would probably be the next in line.
 

Opossum

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"Big Five" this and "Big Six" that. None of that is real. What is real is the Big Eight, and so far everyone has been wrong. This is the Big Eight.
myroster (11).png

"How are those the Big Eight, they're not even from the same genre...none of them are even from platformers," you may ask. The answer is that these are the Big Eight because they're my eight most wanted characters and I make the rules now.


...In all seriousness, attempting to complete a set is almost never helpful when said set is tenuous and mostly vibes-based to begin with.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I would also take Digimon but that would imply Bandai Namco remembers they own Digimon.
The series was active as late as 2022 so it hasn't been too long. And for a series that kinda struggles to get people to care about it, it's probably in a better situation than most like it.

What do you all think of the chances of seeing a Tales character that isn’t Lloyd? I did love Symphonia but Lloyd never appealed to me much as a character. He just felt a bit basic compared to a lot of Tales characters that came after him. My favorites are Velvet and Alphen/Shionne as far as the main protagonists go. Yuri was also a great character but I don’t think he’d have quite as interesting a moveset as the others I mentioned. There’s a ton of side playable characters I love a lot too but I don’t see them as very likely. Zaveid at least has the claim of being the only Tales character in two separate games that aren’t direct numbered sequels.
Unlikely, as Lloyd was Sakurai's default pick back in SSB4, but perhaps the number of Yuri fans could sway that decision when they actually pull the trigger on a character.

Personally though, I don't know Yuri and do know Lloyd, so I'd be much happier with the latter. Ironically, I'd probably be familiar with both if I was able to beat Tales of Symphonia since I had a collection with it and another game (I think Tales of Vesparia) on it. Sadly, I got stuck on Kilia; Couldn't beat her, or leave the city to go grind levels. She seems to be an early game boss too so I really didn't get that far. lol
 

Gengar84

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One thing that gives me some hope is that Tales of Arise was the best selling entry in the series and really helped bring Tales into the mainstream. It also came out around the 2021 supposed project plan which could really help with timing. There’s a chance that they might want to capitalize on that recent success and add a character from that game. I think Symphonia has the best music in the series of the games I’ve played so I’d enjoy that and the fact that Tales is getting a character at all even if I don’t care for Lloyd specifically.

I do feel that it would probably be Lloyd in the end though. Like I mentioned, I really enjoyed his game but never cared much for him as a character. His character archetype never really appealed to me much personally. I was never a huge fan of Rex (Xenoblade) or Sora (Kingdom Hearts) either, for example despite enjoying their series.
 

DarthEnderX

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I'll go ahead and put my top 10 most wanted 3rd/1st party characters here so I don't have to again.
3P:
1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Like a Dragon]

1P:
1. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
2. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
3. Mii Mage
4. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon Echo]
5. Impa [Sheik Echo]
6. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong Echo]
7. Octolings [Inklings Echo]
8. Black Knight [Ike Echo]
9. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight Echo]
10. Ninten [Ness Echo]
 
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Gengar84

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3P:
1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Like a Dragon]

1P:
1. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
2. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
3. Mii Mage
4. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon Echo]
5. Impa [Sheik Echo Echo]
6. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong Echo]
7. Octolings [Inklings Echo]
8. Black Knight [Ike Echo]
9. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight Echo]
10. Ninten [Ness Echo]
First Party

1) Gengar (Pokémon)
2) Goomba (Mario)
3) Bugzzy (Kirby)
4) Impa (Legend of Zelda)
5) Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong)
6) EMMI (Metroid)
7) Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
8) Nia (Xenoblade)
9) The Black Knight (Fire Emblem)
10) Isaac (Golden Sun)

Third Party

1) Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
2) Magus (Chrono Trigger)
3) Jinx (League of Legends)
4) Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
5) Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
6) Alphen/Shionne (Tales of Arise)
7) Zero (Mega Man)
8) Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors)
9) Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
10) Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)

Speaking of Lu Bu, I just beat the demo of Dynasty Warriors Origins at a friend’s house. That game is way harder than a typical Warriors game so I had to put it on easy and still struggled against Lu Bu. It was a ton of fun though. Lu Bu’s got a really flashy moveset that would be really exciting in Smash and even moreso that his previous Warriors appearances. The fight almost reminded me a bit of Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf and actually required a ton of strategy to win. My biggest complaint is the removal of multiplayer but it would have been really difficult to implement with the huge improvements in graphics and animation.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I'd much rather they give him a different name. They didn't call Toon Link Young Link despite both being made to fill the same role of a younger Link, so i don't think Toy Link should take his predecessors' name either even if he's meant to succeed them in their role.
Even if Toy Link was just an alt costume for Toon Link, he could still have a different name. Like Alph.

Do you think Nightmare or Sol Badguy would make the “big 6” fighting game reps over any of these? I’m really happy to see Fulgore here though.
I feel like part of the "Big 6" theming is that each character has to be from a different company. And there's no way Soulcalibur gets picked over Tekken for Namco.

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line?
SoulCalibur.

...In all seriousness, attempting to complete a set is almost never helpful when said set is tenuous and mostly vibes-based to begin with.
But...the set...

1737903792522.png
 
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Screw it, joining the bandwagon.

First Party Reps
  1. Muddy Mole (Mole Mania)
  2. Cranky Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
  3. Waluigi (Super Mario)
  4. Greavard (Pokemon) (Sidenote, why haven't people paired him with Waluigi yet?)
  5. Isaac (Golden Sun)
  6. Nester (Nintendo Power) or 9-Volt (WarioWare)
  7. Krystal (Star Fox)
  8. Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda)
  9. Kamek (Yoshi)
  10. Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
Third Party Reps
  1. Q*Bert (Q*Bert)
  2. Tails or Dr. Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog)
  3. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
  4. Rayman (Rayman)
  5. Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)
  6. Scorpion (Mortal Kombat)
  7. Agumon (Digimon)
  8. Shovel Knight (Shovel Knight)
  9. Shantae (Shantae)
  10. Cuphead (Cuphead)
Truthfully, the top 5 in each category would suffice for me.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I'd also be interested to see how an official Super Smash Bros. Lloyd would compare to Super Smash Flash 2's Lloyd. SSF2's iteration of the character was pretty fun, before they changed his neutral aerial from Tempest to this weird dual upward cut thing and made Tempest his side special. I mean, the kit he has now is probably more coherent since previous iterations had stuff like Guardian, which didn't seem to do anything at all, and Grave Blade, which didn't mesh well with his kit even if it was fun, and Rising Falcon makes a bit more sense as a down special than side special. The changes just raised his skill floor beyond what meshes with me I think.
 
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Dee Dude

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I honestly agree. I'm definitely going to get some hate thrown towards me for saying this, but I frankly think Rayman is gassed up to be more important than he really is sometimes, and that does irk me quite a bit. He's a character who got three major games, got phased out, got two more major games nearly a decade later, got phased out again, and then came back in a DLC expansion just for his whole future to be thrown into question because his parent company is gasping for water like a fish on land. 5 games over the span of 18 years compared to the others in the image. The four already on the roster need no introduction, but even Crash makes more sense to be there since he's had a relatively consistent stream of games with only one major break, along with the important factors of headlining a popular system and actually breaking through to Japan audiences (something vital that Rayman failed to do).

If Rayman were to be actually compared to anyone currently playable in Smash, he would instead be on the same level as Banjo and Bayonetta. They all have games that are generally considered to be very well-liked, but on the flipside, their series are very small and sporadic in releases--I don't believe a single one of them have reached double digits in terms of mainline games. And much like those two characters, the only way I can see Rayman ever getting added is through active demand for it to happen--which I think is going to be a lot harder now than how it was a decade ago now that the pool for character suggestions has vastly widened.

This isn't me trying to say that Rayman or his games are bad nor am I saying that he will never become a playable character, but I do think a bit of a reality check is needed regarding his place in gaming.
As much as I absolutely adore getting Rayman in 6, I’m sadly gonna have to agree, his chances aren’t that high considering that a lot of notably popular Japanese 3rd party IPs still not represented in Smash will definitely take priority over him and if we’re getting atleast one more new western platformer mascot post-Banjo, it’ll be Crash just from the Japanese popularity boost alone.

Don’t me wrong, I still Ray’s got good odds since the series has been pretty close to Nintendo with the Mario/Luigi collaboration in Legends and his DLC appearance in Mario & Rabbids 2 but that probably won’t be enough unless his demand is EXTREMELY high.

With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?
Realistically, Tales or Xenosaga.

What I hope, Digimon or Klonoa.
 
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Garteam

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I think concluding "Guilty Gear has to be the next fighting game franchise in Smash because it's the next largest and most prominent one not already in the game" is a bit flawed.

Guilty Gear's popularity is primarily an international, console-based phenomenon built off ASW filling the gap left by Capcom in the early-to-mid 2000s and Strive's success after Fighterz put AWS on the map of a lot of casual fans. However, it's never been a fixture of Japan's arcade scene, which primarily focuses on Capcom and SNK's 2-D fighters and Tekken. Anecdotally, every Japanese arcade I went to that offered fighting games put Capcom, SNK, and Tekken front and center, while I only found Guilty Gear twice, both times in a multi-game machine tucked away in an awkward corner.

It's clear that Sakurai has a lot of veneration and (probably) nostalgia for that generation of arcade gaming, which has heavily influenced how Smash has approached fighting representation in the past. That why I think Nakoruru and, to a lesser extent, Akira are so slept on. They're iconics of that era that have already gotten a nod in Smash built off their appearances from the '90s. While not fighting game characters, I would also include Arle and Marco Rossi as slept on for a similar reason, as Puyo Puyo 2 and the various Metal Slugs are omnipresent at Japanese arcades.
 

Diddy Kong

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I feel like he is better as an Alt and especially since Zelda series’ reputation in Smash as just the main trio will get worse.

My prediction is that the Zelda roster would be like this: Link (has TP and OoT as alts), Zelda (some elements of EoW), Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Impa/Skull Kid.
I keep rethinking the scenario honestly. I think there is merit in keeping Young Link and Toon Link honestly. If I had to pick one, Toon Link stays. But without Young Link I won't be picking Skull Kid. I want Impa regardless however. I'd even take her as Echo Fighter.

My personal wishlist for Zelda in case everyone stays:
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultsheik::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink: + Impa (Age of Calamity version) + :linkmelee: (Echo Fighter of :ultlink: with :ultyounglink:'s moveset) + Ganon
 

Ivander

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With Tekken and Pac-Man already repped with fighters, what third Namco IP do you think would be next in line? Tales of, perhaps?
The Tales of series is so long overdue for Smash Bros. that I'd be amazed if we got any other Namco IP in(aside from maybe Dark Souls) before it. The only question is who would be the rep. Lloyd(the most popular among the Smash fanbase), Yuri(the most popular Tales character among the Tales fanbase) or Alphen/Shionne(the most recent and best selling game's protagonists).
 

Dee Dude

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I have a gut feeling Akira Yuki will happen, not a lock, just a feeling.

Virtua Fighter is the next legacy fighting game after Tekken to not have a playable character yet, he’s an AT in Ultimate, has two Mii costumes of him and Jacky, VF6 got announced so DLC is a perfect opportunity to promote it and there’s a SHOCKING lack of classic SEGA reps in Smash aside from :ultsonic: since :ultjoker: and :ultbayonetta: were both relatively recent/modern at their time.
 
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RileyXY1

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I have a gut feeling Akira Yuki will happen, not a lock, just a feeling.

Virtua Fighter is the next legacy fighting game after Tekken to not have a playable character yet, he’s an AT in Ultimate, VF6 got announced and there’s a SHOCKING lack of classic SEGA reps in Smash aside from :ultsonic: since :ultjoker: and :ultbayonetta: were both relatively recent/modern at their time.
VF is also pretty huge. This was the game that popularized 3D gaming in general, alongside ID Software's Quake. Its graphics blew everyone away when it first game out and its success actually encouraged Sony to move forward with 3D graphics for the PlayStation.
 
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Speed Weed

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I think concluding "Guilty Gear has to be the next fighting game franchise in Smash because it's the next largest and most prominent one not already in the game" is a bit flawed.

Guilty Gear's popularity is primarily an international, console-based phenomenon built off ASW filling the gap left by Capcom in the early-to-mid 2000s and Strive's success after Fighterz put AWS on the map of a lot of casual fans. However, it's never been a fixture of Japan's arcade scene, which primarily focuses on Capcom and SNK's 2-D fighters and Tekken. Anecdotally, every Japanese arcade I went to that offered fighting games put Capcom, SNK, and Tekken front and center, while I only found Guilty Gear twice, both times in a multi-game machine tucked away in an awkward corner.

It's clear that Sakurai has a lot of veneration and (probably) nostalgia for that generation of arcade gaming, which has heavily influenced how Smash has approached fighting representation in the past. That why I think Nakoruru and, to a lesser extent, Akira are so slept on. They're iconics of that era that have already gotten a nod in Smash built off their appearances from the '90s. While not fighting game characters, I would also include Arle and Marco Rossi as slept on for a similar reason, as Puyo Puyo 2 and the various Metal Slugs are omnipresent at Japanese arcades.
As someone who's researched plenty into Japan's arcade game history, I actually disagree with this. Even if it potentially may not be as big now, Guilty Gear was quite popular in JP arcade circles in the early 2000s, at least from what I've researched. The best way to look at this is to dive into the main touchstones of arcade fandom in Japan at the time, such as Arcadia magazine. Guilty Gear was a huge presence in those, getting absolute barrages of cosplays and fanart on par with the other big names of the era, and always scoring well on polls. I've also personally just generally seen plenty of JP online presence from those games, by way of videos, doujinshi, etc. Only the early 2000s stuff is publicly available online currently so I've got no clue how this holds for the later entries, and of course these are moreso dedicated fan sources, but at the very least I think the series clearly made an impact on Japanese arcade players at the time. I think the problem comes with the fact that this would have been in the 2000s, way past the "golden age" of fighting games that gets the bulk of the reverence there, and probably past what Sakurai would remember from that era, but at that point I feel weird speculating on what the man has or has not experienced
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Just speaking as an American layperson from the outside of the FGC scene, Guilty Gear feels a bit like a modern Final Fight/King of Fighters in that even if hasn't quite the same kind of fame that its more well known peers (Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat) have, it is so respected and acclaimed within the Fighting Game Community itself that an inclusion in Smash would feel like it's paying tribute to that game type in a lot of ways. It's not wholly unlike the Tales of series in that respect; just being a really strong example of a genre that could fit well in SSB regardless of the debate about its outright mainstream popularity or influence.
 

PeridotGX

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I think concluding "Guilty Gear has to be the next fighting game franchise in Smash because it's the next largest and most prominent one not already in the game" is a bit flawed.

Guilty Gear's popularity is primarily an international, console-based phenomenon built off ASW filling the gap left by Capcom in the early-to-mid 2000s and Strive's success after Fighterz put AWS on the map of a lot of casual fans. However, it's never been a fixture of Japan's arcade scene, which primarily focuses on Capcom and SNK's 2-D fighters and Tekken. Anecdotally, every Japanese arcade I went to that offered fighting games put Capcom, SNK, and Tekken front and center, while I only found Guilty Gear twice, both times in a multi-game machine tucked away in an awkward corner.

It's clear that Sakurai has a lot of veneration and (probably) nostalgia for that generation of arcade gaming, which has heavily influenced how Smash has approached fighting representation in the past. That why I think Nakoruru and, to a lesser extent, Akira are so slept on. They're iconics of that era that have already gotten a nod in Smash built off their appearances from the '90s. While not fighting game characters, I would also include Arle and Marco Rossi as slept on for a similar reason, as Puyo Puyo 2 and the various Metal Slugs are omnipresent at Japanese arcades.
I don't think it's an "or" situation. In Ultimate, they added four fighting game adjacent characters (Ken, Terry, Min Min, Kazuya). I wouldn't be surprised if the next game matched (if not exceeds) that count. Springman as a Min Min echo and a SNK character in the base game, Sol and a Soulcalibur rep as DLC, that feels reasonable to me.
 

Perkilator

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I don't think it's an "or" situation. In Ultimate, they added four fighting game adjacent characters (Ken, Terry, Min Min, Kazuya). I wouldn't be surprised if the next game matched (if not exceeds) that count. Springman as a Min Min echo and a SNK character in the base game, Sol and a Soulcalibur rep as DLC, that feels reasonable to me.
While I agree with this sentiment overall, I think Ninjara would make for a more fitting Min Min Echo due to sharing a body shape and even an ARMS variation (Chakram) with Min Min (Ram Ram). It also helps that Sakurai considered Ninjara to be playable in the first place, so him being a Min Min Echo would be a cool way to make that come full circle.

Of course, if Min Min does come back, then I’d like for her moveset to be reworked altogether.
 

CannonStreak

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While I agree with this sentiment overall, I think Ninjara would make for a more fitting Min Min Echo due to sharing a body shape and even an ARMS variation (Chakram) with Min Min (Ram Ram). It also helps that Sakurai considered Ninjara to be playable in the first place, so him being a Min Min Echo would be a cool way to make that come full circle.

Of course, if Min Min does come back, then I’d like for her moveset to be reworked altogether.
Well, I am not going to coitize your thoughts, but just saying: While I do see some things about her that need to be reworked, I think asking for her moveset to be reworked altogether is a bit much. I mean, they worked hard on making that moveset happen, and they even delayed Min Min's release during her development to work on said moveset, did they not? I understand they could work on some things should she appear in the next Smash Bros. game, since it is new, but I do think it is asking too much for a whole moveset rework, since reworks don't happen that often with movesets. (Just look at Sonic)
 

dream1ng

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I have a gut feeling Akira Yuki will happen, not a lock, just a feeling.

Virtua Fighter is the next legacy fighting game after Tekken to not have a playable character yet, he’s an AT in Ultimate, VF6 got announced so DLC is a perfect opportunity to promote it and there’s a SHOCKING lack of classic SEGA reps in Smash aside from :ultsonic: since :ultjoker: and :ultbayonetta: were both relatively recent/modern at their time.
We really gonna have to do the "x third-party can get in to promote their game" song and dance again, hey

Short of Nintendo making their game, that's not why they get in.

In regards to fighting game characters, I'm like, almost 95% sure Sol and Akira will both make it into the next game at this point.

Which is funny to me because they literally couldn't be further apart when it comes to their gameplay and design philosophies lmao.
95% sure on any new third-party getting in is a good way to get disappointed

Is it bad that that’s the last thing I care about when it comes to a Smash character nowadays? We don’t play as “impact on the platformer” but as a character.
A character who usually had a big impact on the gaming scene, which is why they're so well-known and popular
 
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CannonStreak

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Here is a little thing I thought of. Why not rate the chances of each character in terms of getting into Smash? 100% won't be allowed here, for that is for locks and locks aren't possible. For example...

Waluigi: 93%
Dixie Kong: 91%
Bandana Waddle Dee: 82%
Crash Bandicoot: 79%
Geno: 63%
Paper Mario: In my opinion, 58%

These are just examples. You can explain why you put any percentage for each.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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It's actually the rare buyout that got me thinking. Nintendo actually use to own the rights to Banjo Kazooie. How much of it is unknown, but Nintendo is credited as such with Diddy Kong racing. What they didn't own were the DK64 original characters. And instead of keeping Banjo, they traded his rights in order to complete the DK 64 rights.

Of course that was a long time ago, but I can definitely see Nintendo wanting to do more with Mario + Rabbids
I didn't know about that one so I mostly thought about the more recent trade of Nintendo getting full rights to Astral Chain while Platinum gets full rights to Wonderful 101, which is how the remaster came out on like Steam and PS4 I think lol
 
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