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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SharkLord

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Old grudges die hard. So not really.

I have to say, I don't see them cutting Byleth to add another 3H character(and when people say 'another 3H character', they inevitably mean Edelgard.) Like yeah, Edelgard is more popular(and controversial) within the FE fanbase. But Byleth is still a very popular character, the game's main protagonist, a neutral character who doesn't favour one route over another, and is already in smash, so they don't have to make a new moveset.
I've been debating Byleth vs Edelgard with my brother a bit lately. Putting aside the rather unlikely scenario that they go out of their way to replace a veteran, the conclusion we reached was "Do we upset Smash fans or Fire Emblem fans?"

Like you mentioned, Byleth isthe player character of Three Houses and therefore the safest, most neutral option from Three Houses, which puts a bit emphasis on multiple routes. (And like you mentioned they're already in the game, which most likely gives them priority by default). That said, for a sizeable contingent of Smash fans, Byleth is Yet Another Blue Haired Fire Emblem Swordfighter, and even if you can spin something unique out of them, they still carry that stigma. To avoid that, Sakurai gave them the other Relics, but that means each weapon doesn't get much room to breathe and completely ignores the Divine Pulse, upsetting Fire Emblem fans as well.

Edelgard would be more distinct in her design and moveset. She covers a new weapon type, represents Armor units, could be counted as a villain rep depending on the route (though that's a big can of worms apparently), is an active player in all routes of Three Houses, and I believe she's the most popular character in Three Houses (Granted, that statistic is from Heroes' Choose Your Legends vote, but that was during a big surge of Three Houses newcomers so I think it's a bit more accurate?). However, that means favoring one route over all the others, and the Three Houses Lords are usually shown together to avoid that. In addition, I believe Edelgard is a rather divisive character among the Three Houses fandom, so if you add her over anyone else... Well, there's a reason we say "four more years of Three Houses discourse."

Clearly, the answer is to add Lysithea instead and let her pop Shields from halfway across the stage with Dark Spikes T :4pacman:
 

KingofPhantoms

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Pokémon at least got lucky that Pichu, Lucario, and Greninja all turned out to be extremely popular and marketable. Incineroar not so much because the most promoted Gen 7 starter was actually Decidueye.
What do you mean by lucky? That the general reception towards their inclusion in Smash was positive?

Incineroar didn't really get as much backlash compared to the initial backlash of Corrin and Byteth, I'd say.

Incineroar had been around for longer by the time Ultimate was out than either of them had by the time they made their SSB debuts (and in Corrin's case, Fates wasn't even out yet at the time they were added to 4 IIRC), and at the very least, Incineroar is fairly popular on his own and his worldwide popularity is generally pretty consistent. The other two Gen 7 starters' final forms tend to be on the polar opposite ends of popularity in different regions.

Anna is meant to have a large role as Commander of the the Order of Heroes in, well, Heroes (in fact, it's because of her Kiran is there at all) but any one in the good guys' side not named Alfonse tends to get the short stick in terms of plot impact and relevance... if they even get a stick at all.

In Fates, she was a DLC-exclusive thing that that had her own map and also her own supports and stuff. She is now technically lost media.

In Three Houses, she was given even less than that, being simply a unit they tossed with the DLC. She notably had no supports with anyone, making it difficult to justify using her as a unit.

Engage made her a gremlin and it's actually really funny. Just having this young child try to sell you anything is a pretty silly dynamic.
I mean in Fates she was a minor playable character via DLC, I think Three Houses did the same thing, and then Engage had an actual Anna playable WITHOUT DLC with the little child Anna, but she's an optional unit alongside Jean, placed into little side maps. If you recruit her, she also runs a little side shop in the Somniel that sells support-boosting gift items, but I think even if you don't, I wanna say Timerra runs it? I'm pretty sure someone does if Anna's not there, but I don't know who since I've always recruited Anna lol

So outside of Heroes, not much, though Lady Anna as she likes to be called in Engage is a pretty fun version of her, I like her.
So she was important in Awakening's default game and Fates DLC, but only recently became sort of relevant again with the much more recently released Engage?

That and the addition of FE only getting lords playable in Smash probably contributed significantly to (if not being the only major cause of) her getting less and less support as a potential newcomer over the years. I haven't played Engage yet, either, but it doesn't sound like she made a big enough of a return to really rally more support.
 

Opossum

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Still, Decidueye got into Pokken Tournament DX (and was used heavily in promotion) as well as Unite, where it's the only playable Gen 7 starter at the current moment. Also thanks to its Hisuian form it is currently the latest debuting Pokémon to receive a regional variant.
Even as a Decidueye ride or die, this is an absolutely nothing statement considering that it implies having a full or mostly full starter set is the norm for Unite when that's far from the case.

Not including Pikachu or any Eeveelutions, there are ten starters playable in Unite, and the ONLY region with a full set is Kanto, with Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise. Meanwhile Kalos and Galar have two each (Delphox and Greninja, and Cinderace and Inteleon). Hoenn only has Blaziken, Alola only has Decidueye, and Paldea only has Meowscarada.

Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova, meanwhile, have NONE of their starters playable. This point of yours doesn't mean anything at all because Unite is absolutely not consistent in how it handles starter representation.
 

SubspaceJigglypuff

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I recognize I'm trailing behind the thread on unlockables, but I didn't have a chance to submit this earlier. Everyone I think will likely be made unlockable if they return:

:ultluigi::ultjigglypuff::ultsheik::ultdoc::ultpichu::ultfalco::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultmewtwo::ultroy::ultgnw::ultmetaknight::ultike::ultlucas::ultrob::ulttoonlink::ultwolf::ultpalutena::ultbowserjr::ultlucina::ultdarkpit::ultduckhunt::ultcorrinf::ultdaisy::ultrichter::ultkrool::ultdarksamus::ultchrom::ultincineroar::ultken::ultpiranha::ultsephiroth::ultpyra::ultmythra:

That's about 34 fighters. Not the literal amount of vets I expect to be unlockable since that would require all of them to return, of course. Some quick pointers:

  • I have a gut feeling no full franchises will be demoted to unlockable status anymore; all will have at least one character in the starting roster, with the number changing based on the series' status and character count; unlockables will be more for digging into the existing series.
    • The one exception is the weird "surprise franchises" (Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt); they have a 100% unlockability track record, and that prolly won't change. I guess that makes sense, the whole purpose of them is to confuse people.
  • As per series tradition, pretty much every clone/derative character will likely be unlockable.
  • I wasn't sure how to handle third parties. At this point though, I'm leaning towards treating them like first parties and making all the main reps starters, while leaving any secondary fighters (Ken, Sephiroth, etc.) unlockable.

Now on the current subject of FE reception in Smash; I think it'll be fine honestly. Fire Emblem wasn't always a scapegoat. That mostly started 'cause of :ultcorrinf: . (I know some criticized :ultroy: 's return, but I remember most let it slide 'cause of his popularity. I only remember serious complaints happening after Corn).

Keep in mind Smash 6'll probably not have all of them back, and there's a decent chance it won't even get a newcomer; with only 4 or so non-echo characters, I think fans'll mostly stop giving a **** like in the pre-Corn days, and some other series will get hate instead.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Jeez this series really painted itself into a corner lol

Do you think they could add someone like Lyn or Tiki with minimal backlash, or is the well too poisoned?
If we get another FE newcomer, I fear someone will travel to Japan and actually beat the **** out of Sakurai in real life.

And it's a shame because one of my most wanteds right now is actually Alear lmao
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Jeez this series really painted itself into a corner lol

Do you think they could add someone like Lyn or Tiki with minimal backlash, or is the well too poisoned?
I mean I think they're just gonna keep doing what they've been doing regardless, but I feel like honestly any FE newcomer would probably be torn apart by Smash players lol

Alear at least will have been added to Smash years after their game released if they do get added (or at least the Smash game will COME OUT years after Engage), as opposed to Corrin and Byleth, so it might mitigate it somewhat, but yeah.
 
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Ivander

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Fire Emblem needs less characters
Or every other series just needs more characters. Can't have too many characters if every other series has more characters than your series. :smirk:
Anna is meant to have a large role as Commander of the the Order of Heroes in, well, Heroes (in fact, it's because of her Kiran is there at all) but any one in the good guys' side not named Alfonse tends to get the short stick in terms of plot impact and relevance... if they even get a stick at all.
Aside from the Heroines per Book(like Fjorm for Book 2, Eir for book 3, and following), Kiran tends to have some focus in the stories(especially 4, 5, 7 and 8), even if not as much as Alfonse. Book 3 does have Kiran get Breidablik upgraded in order to defeat Hel, Kiran gets kidnapped by Eitri in 5 because she wants to make something similar to Kiran's weapon, Book 7.....yeah, and Book 8 starts focused on Alfonse and Veronica, but later focuses to Kiran since the main villain wants Kiran to bring back his dead family and threatens to kill the other heroes if Kiran doesn't comply.
Then you have Book 4 where despite the premise being that Alfonse and Sharena working with Peony to find Kiran and stop Freyja from bringing the nightmares to the real world, you find out that Alfonse has actually been Kiran the whole time and that Alfonse was supposedly wiped out by Allfador for fighting back and defeating Hel and Kiran has been in a state of grief since then. The ending implied that Freyja was lying as Alfonse is alive and well in the ending, though I'm legit curious if this twist will be mentioned in Book 9 where we supposedly meet Allfador for the first time. Cause man, if Alfador were to confirm he did wipe out Alfonse, that would bring so many questions as to why Alfonse is up and running and for how he was able to be around for later books.

That said, while I certainly don't expect Kiran, if Kiran ever became a playable character in Smash Bros, I sincerely hope they go full "FEH Manga/Chibi Playhouse/April Fools videos" for Kiran's personality. Kiran is mostly a blank slate in-game, but frickin' hilarious in everything else. And they'd be our first "Isekei" playable character in Smash Bros as they have outright mentioned game mechanics from other Fire Emblem games.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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What do you mean by lucky? That the general reception towards their inclusion in Smash was positive?

Incineroar didn't really get as much backlash compared to the initial backlash of Corrin and Byteth, I'd say.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Incineroar’s initial reactions were more positive compared to Greninja.

While it wasn’t controversial or anything, Greninja’s trailer was overshadowed by Mewtwo’s absence so lot of it’s reception was probably people being confused and disappointed because it wasn’t Mewtwo.

Lucario to a lesser extent because of Aura Sphere being the same move type as Shadow Ball.
 
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Watuna4343

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I recognize I'm trailing behind the thread on unlockables, but I didn't have a chance to submit this earlier. Everyone I think will likely be made unlockable if they return:

:ultluigi::ultjigglypuff::ultsheik::ultdoc::ultpichu::ultfalco::ultyounglink::ultganondorf::ultmewtwo::ultroy::ultgnw::ultmetaknight::ultike::ultlucas::ultrob::ulttoonlink::ultwolf::ultpalutena::ultbowserjr::ultlucina::ultdarkpit::ultduckhunt::ultcorrinf::ultdaisy::ultrichter::ultkrool::ultdarksamus::ultchrom::ultincineroar::ultken::ultpiranha::ultsephiroth::ultpyra::ultmythra:

That's about 34 fighters. Not the literal amount of vets I expect to be unlockable since that would require all of them to return, of course. Some quick pointers:

  • I have a gut feeling no full franchises will be demoted to unlockable status anymore; all will have at least one character in the starting roster, with the number changing based on the series' status and character count; unlockables will be more for digging into the existing series.
    • The one exception is the weird "surprise franchises" (Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt); they have a 100% unlockability track record, and that prolly won't change. I guess that makes sense, the whole purpose of them is to confuse people.
  • As per series tradition, pretty much every clone/derative character will likely be unlockable.
  • I wasn't sure how to handle third parties. At this point though, I'm leaning towards treating them like first parties and making all the main reps starters, while leaving any secondary fighters (Ken, Sephiroth, etc.) unlockable.
This is mostly solid, though I actually don't see why Meta Knight, Ike and Sheik (if she returns) would be unlockable all of a sudden since they never were before Ultimate (with Ike even being a starter before Marth), but other than that these are most if not all the unlockable vets options tbh
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Honestly with FE characters I'm still half expecting Alear to be a newcomer in the base game and the protag of the next new FE on Switch 2 will be DLC. Just because both Smash games with DLC so far have had an FE character in there, regardless of the fanbase's reaction to it.

Whether that's exacerbated by veteran DLC as well like Roy in 4 or not? That depends.
 

KingofPhantoms

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Incineroar’s initial reactions were more positive compared to Greninja.

While it wasn’t controversial or anything, Greninja’s trailer was overshadowed by Mewtwo’s absence so lot of it’s reception was probably people being confused and disappointed because it wasn’t Mewtwo.

Lucario to a lesser extent because of Aura Sphere being the same move type as Shadow Ball.
Incineroar's appearance completely killed the Grinch/banner leak.

There were definitely fans who were upset about it, considering the number of characters who were leaked on it (not taking the ones who made it into the DLC line-up into account since they were only revealed much after the leak was proven false and the base game released) but from what I can recall, a ton of people were actually thrilled that it turned out to be fake instead. Or at least relieved that the arguments and debates over it's legitimacy were over.

Incineroar's initial reception arguably benefited even more from that. :4larry:
 

SubspaceJigglypuff

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This is mostly solid, though I actually don't see why Meta Knight, Ike and Sheik (if she returns) would be unlockable all of a sudden since they never were before Ultimate (with Ike even being a starter before Marth), but other than that these are most if not all the unlockable vets options tbh
Meta Knight is a "Smash 4 Wario" situation. I figure there'll be at least one here, where everyone goes "why did they do that?". Why Meta Knight specifically? I don't know, gut feeling. It probably won't happen though, yeah. But tbf it might make a bit more sense if Bandana Dee makes it, you could say it's to put more spotlight on him.

Ike was because there's now more FE characters that feel better suited to base, with Awakening and Three Houses being more current; they get the spotlight in the start while Ike "falls back" a bit. Doubly so if FE actually gets a newcomer. I imagine he would be a piss-easy early unlock though.

Sheik I admit depends on if one of the baby links returns. If neither do, then I could see her taking their place, especially if Zelda finally gets its long awaited newcomer. Otherwise, probably not. Something else that helps is, with my vision for the roster, Sheik would probably be a later inclusion if she makes it, and those tend to be unlockable.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Incineroar’s initial reactions were more positive compared to Greninja.

While it wasn’t controversial or anything, Greninja’s trailer was overshadowed by Mewtwo’s absence so lot of it’s reception was probably people being confused and disappointed because it wasn’t Mewtwo.

Lucario to a lesser extent because of Aura Sphere being the same move type as Shadow Ball.
To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.

Even if I had seen the trailer live, the handsign alone would have tipped me off to Greninja because of Naruto lol.
 

BrawlX10

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Honestly, i could see Alear missing the boat, Engage seems like it's not as popular as 3H was and i don't remember much flare, just lukewarm, mostly.
I do think Alear will still probably get in regardless, but there's a chance he won't make it.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.

Even if I had seen the trailer live, the handsign alone would have tipped me off to Greninja because of Naruto lol.
Sheer desperation would get people to act that way.

They saw a Pokemon with a chargeable projectile. This was enough for them to blindly think Mewtwo even though literally every single other sign objectively screamed "this ain't Mewtwo, bruh", including the projectile itself being the wrong color, let alone shape, to be Shadow Ball

And full confession? I was one of those sillies who screamed Mewtwo so I know what I'm talking about
 
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BrawlX10

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This is mostly solid, though I actually don't see why Meta Knight, Ike and Sheik (if she returns) would be unlockable all of a sudden since they never were before Ultimate (with Ike even being a starter before Marth), but other than that these are most if not all the unlockable vets options tbh
I can see Joker, Kazuya and Simon begin unlockable for 3rd parties. Wii Fit Trainer and Min Min could also be unlockable though a bit less likely...and i suposse Isabelle could too? specially if Tom Nook gets in, i don't think she will be unlockable though, but a possibily, regardless.
 
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SharkLord

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Jeez this series really painted itself into a corner lol

Do you think they could add someone like Lyn or Tiki with minimal backlash, or is the well too poisoned?
There's going to be backlash regardless, but I think it could be softened if they tone back the quantity of FE characters, find a way to make them more distinct, and give other series newcomers as well. The rotating cast means we may never escape the "FE shill pick" stigma, but if we scale back to like, four FE fighters and a clone and give series like Kirby and Zelda another rep, that should even things out pretty well.

I think part of the problem is that many of the FE fighters don't have a defined "niche." Smash 4 had a pretty decent setup - Marth as a speedy fencer, Ike as a big heavy swordfighter, Robin as a magic user, plus Lucina as a quick clone. After that, it started getting fuzzy. Roy and Chrom are more aggressive than Marth, but they're still swift swordies using parts of his moveset. Corrin's visually distinct with their dragon powers and acrobatics, but they're also a swift swordfighter with a one-handed weapon. Byleth is supposed to be a "Distance Demon," but they don't lean into it that much, so they feel like another heavy melee fighter like Ike.

If we scale back to just Marth, Ike, and two other fighters, I think there might be more room for clear niches. WIth Lyn or Tiki, I think they might be distinct enough to set themselves apart. Lyn is also a swordfighter, granted, but I think the emphasis on speed and quick-draws could help distinguish her from the usual FE swordies. Tiki turns into a dragon with no sword in sight, so there's no excuse to complain there.

...Or maybe people will just dig in their heels and hate Fire Emblem just for the sake of it anyways.
 

DarthEnderX

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And even then, I'm pretty sure the extremely popular and marketable part is mostly due to Rowlet being an adorable little birb than it is Decidueye.
No way. Decidueye was easily the coolest of the evolved Alolan starters.

Do you think they could add someone like Lyn or Tiki with minimal backlash, or is the well too poisoned?
They'll get less backlash if they take a game off first.

"LESS ANIME SWORDFIGHTERS ON THE ROSTER!"

"GIVE GANONDORF A SWORD!"
But I want trident Ganondorf...

To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.
Because the first shot of him is seeing his little bulbous 3-fingered hands, which is something Mewtwo also has.

I think part of the problem is that many of the FE fighters don't have a defined "niche."
They really need to fix the '4 Marths' problem.

Give Chrom a new unique moveset. Make Lucina his Echo. Make Roy Marth's Echo. Then at least we only have 2 Marths and 2 Chroms.
 
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KingofPhantoms

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To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.

Even if I had seen the trailer live, the handsign alone would have tipped me off to Greninja because of Naruto lol.
Sheer desperation would get people to act that way.

They saw a Pokemon with a chargeable projectile. This was enough for them to blindly think Mewtwo even though literally every single other sign objectively screamed "this ain't Mewtwo, bruh", including the projectile itself being the wrong color, let alone shape, to be Shadow Ball

And full confession? I was one of those sillies who screamed Mewtwo so I know what I'm talking about
I think the thing that actually confused most people who mistook it for Mewtwo was that the animators seemed to have edited out or removed the distinct webbing between Greninja's fingers for the initial shots of him charging up a Water Shuriken, arguably to try and hide and build up to the fact that it was Greninja in the first place along with the fact that he was shrouded in shadow and his head wasn't shown.

Source: I am someone who thought it was Mewtwo at first until the projectile turned out to be blue instead of purple.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.

Even if I had seen the trailer live, the handsign alone would have tipped me off to Greninja because of Naruto lol.
I mean the hand sign definitely gives it away, but like when Greninja is still covered in shadow?

Screenshot (74).png


These ain't no Greninja hands I've ever seen lmao

I wouldn't say they especially look like Mewtwo either, but yeah.
 

ninjahmos

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The duality of angry Smash fans:

"LESS ANIME SWORDFIGHTERS ON THE ROSTER!"

"GIVE GANONDORF A SWORD!"
The first one is almost too accurate, but to be fair on the second one, Ganondorf has been Falcondorf for too long, and they only just now decided to have him use his sword in Ultimate, but only in his Smash Attacks.

So…it wouldn't hurt to have Ganon use his sword more often.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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I think the thing that actually confused most people who mistook it for Mewtwo was that the animators seemed to have edited out or removed the distinct webbing between Greninja's fingers for the initial shots of him charging up a Water Shuriken, arguably to try and hide and build up to the fact that it was Greninja in the first place along with the fact that he was shrouded in shadow and his head wasn't shown.

Source: I am someone who thought it was Mewtwo at first until the projectile turned out to be blue instead of purple.
I mean the hand sign definitely gives it away, but like when Greninja is still covered in shadow?

View attachment 399269

These ain't no Greninja hands I've ever seen lmao

I wouldn't say they especially look like Mewtwo either, but yeah.

Yeah, the hands weren't webbed, but still, Mewtwo doesn't just chill upside down and throw handsigns.

Even if it wasn't apparent it was Greninja (though in context of it being a Pokémon trailer with X/Y music playing at the time, kinda slim pickings for options, tbh :p), at the very least it was obviously not Mewtwo. :V
 

Louie G.

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I'm still willing to stand by my belief that Alear won't be in the game, and she's probably the most overrated first party character right now. Maybe the timing will have been right, if the project plan really was drafted back around the tail end of 2022 and finalized early 2023. But to put it bluntly, two years later Engage is not a particularly relevant game and Three Houses still is. Alear is not an overwhelmingly popular character and the Three Houses characters still are. So by all means Byleth (we're stuck with them, sorry Edelgard) being here still feels like a serviceable way to represent the series' contemporary presence.

I also think even if Nintendo doesn't care about the Fire Emblem backlash, Sakurai's acknowledgement of the discussion several times over makes it clear the criticism does not go unheard. On top of Everyone is Here exacerbating the perception further when I'm sure a couple of characters would have been lesser priority in transition. But I think the 'solution' moving ahead is pretty easy, especially if a new Fire Emblem character is not on the slate. The series can sustain a good 4-5 characters (echoes included) and feel well-served and more "proportional". It would still be among the most plentiful series on the roster.

i suposse Isabelle could too? specially if Tom Nook gets in, i don't think she will though.
Honestly I don't think any of the Animal Crossing characters are unlockable material, but I think out of the three Tom Nook would make the most sense in that role. Depends how they choose to handle it... like, if they stick rigidly by who is revealed pre-release being starter I'm sure Nook would just be available to play from the jump, but he has the "aura" to be more of a mysterious unlock than the bubbly Villager and Isabelle.
 

Thegameandwatch

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To this day, I'll never understand why people assumed that the thing that was hanging upside down doing a ninja handsign and charging something blue was Mewtwo.

Even if I had seen the trailer live, the handsign alone would have tipped me off to Greninja because of Naruto lol.
Although not even sure if lot of the reactors to the trailer even knew who Greninja was. X/Y was somewhat recent and the Pokemon was probably only revealed publicly shortly after X/Y released.

Also it didn’t appear in the anime in the west until after it was revealed for Smash.
 

Arcanir

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I wouldn’t be surprised if Incineroar’s initial reactions were more positive compared to Greninja.

While it wasn’t controversial or anything, Greninja’s trailer was overshadowed by Mewtwo’s absence so lot of it’s reception was probably people being confused and disappointed because it wasn’t Mewtwo.

Lucario to a lesser extent because of Aura Sphere being the same move type as Shadow Ball.
Ironically Lucario suffered the most from the Mewtwo comparisons. People insisted he's a clone during Brawl for that one move and even nowadays you'll hear that lingering complaint against him. Hell, it got so bad we got the infamous 'Lucario wall of shame' during Smash 4.
 

KingofPhantoms

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I mean the hand sign definitely gives it away, but like when Greninja is still covered in shadow?

View attachment 399269

These ain't no Greninja hands I've ever seen lmao

I wouldn't say they especially look like Mewtwo either, but yeah.
This summarizes it perfectly lmao.

I don't know if the team was deliberately trolling people and knew that people would mistake Greninja for Mewtwo here, but they absolutely wanted to hide that it was Greninja specifically.

Yeah, the hands weren't webbed, but still, Mewtwo doesn't just chill upside down and throw handsigns.

Even if it wasn't apparent it was Greninja (though in context of it being a Pokémon trailer with X/Y music playing at the time, kinda slim pickings for options, tbh :p), at the very least it was obviously not Mewtwo. :V
I'll be honest, I didn't even realize the Pokemon was upside down at all at first lmao.

I definitely thought the body shape was weird, but I guess the my hope for Mewtwo combined with my hype watching the trailer live and the fingers looking at least similar to theirs just had me really thinking that this was the moment Mewtwo would make their grand return lol.
 
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Laniv

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There's going to be backlash regardless, but I think it could be softened if they tone back the quantity of FE characters, find a way to make them more distinct, and give other series newcomers as well. The rotating cast means we may never escape the "FE shill pick" stigma, but if we scale back to like, four FE fighters and a clone and give series like Kirby and Zelda another rep, that should even things out pretty well.

I think part of the problem is that many of the FE fighters don't have a defined "niche." Smash 4 had a pretty decent setup - Marth as a speedy fencer, Ike as a big heavy swordfighter, Robin as a magic user, plus Lucina as a quick clone. After that, it started getting fuzzy. Roy and Chrom are more aggressive than Marth, but they're still swift swordies using parts of his moveset. Corrin's visually distinct with their dragon powers and acrobatics, but they're also a swift swordfighter with a one-handed weapon. Byleth is supposed to be a "Distance Demon," but they don't lean into it that much, so they feel like another heavy melee fighter like Ike.
Reading this, I think this is kind of why Pokémon, a series that picks its characters in largely the same way as Fire Emblem, doesn't get as much backlash--by their nature, the Pokémon they pick tend to (rather they have to) stand out from each other.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Even if it wasn't apparent it was Greninja (though in context of it being a Pokémon trailer with X/Y music playing at the time, kinda slim pickings for options, tbh :p), at the very least it was obviously not Mewtwo. :V
Congrats on being smarter than literally this entire thread, nerd :4pacman:
 
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SubspaceJigglypuff

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I can see Joker, Kazuya and Simon begin unlockable for 3rd parties. Wii Fit Trainer and Min Min could also be unlockable though a bit less likely...and i suposse Isabelle could too? if Tom Nook gets in, i don't think she will though.
If they go back to hiding specific third party series, maybe. I did consider the possibility of having one third party series from each company be starters while the others are unlockable, but I decided not to. I have a feeling hiding third party series entierly won't be a thing anymore given Smash 4.

I guess maybe for Wii Fit Trainer? I doubt it though. Ice Climbers of all characters have always been starters. Same goes for Min-Min, but I doubt it more because ARMS had presence on the last console.

...and yeah, like Louie said, it's very doubtful anyone from Animal Crossing will be unlockable
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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Yeah, the hands weren't webbed, but still, Mewtwo doesn't just chill upside down and throw handsigns.

Even if it wasn't apparent it was Greninja (though in context of it being a Pokémon trailer with X/Y music playing at the time, kinda slim pickings for options, tbh :p), at the very least it was obviously not Mewtwo. :V
Now that I'll agree with lol
I'm still willing to stand by my belief that Alear won't be in the game, and she's probably the most overrated first party character right now. Maybe the timing will have been right, if the project plan really was drafted back around the tail end of 2022 and finalized early 2023. But to put it bluntly, two years later Engage is not a particularly relevant game and Three Houses still is. Alear is not an overwhelmingly popular character and the Three Houses characters still are. So by all means Byleth (we're stuck with them, sorry Edelgard) being here still feels like a serviceable way to represent the series' contemporary presence.

I also think even if Nintendo doesn't care about the Fire Emblem backlash, Sakurai's acknowledgement of the discussion several times over makes it clear the criticism does not go unheard. On top of Everyone is Here exacerbating the perception further when I'm sure a couple of characters would have been lesser priority in transition. But I think the 'solution' moving ahead is pretty easy, especially if a new Fire Emblem character is not on the slate. The series can sustain a good 4-5 characters (echoes included) and feel well-served and more "proportional". It would still be among the most plentiful series on the roster.
I mean this is all fair and I wouldn't mind just having like Marth, Ike, Robin, and Byleth, plus Lucina as a late Echo, I just don't think Intelligent Systems is going to suddenly pass up an opportunity. If timing doesn't work out, that's fine, but considering Engage was in development alongside 3H and was supposed to release in like 2021, I wouldn't be shocked if it was included even in the 2021/2022 project, if that is Smash, and if it wasn't and the project plan for Smash was decided later, even better.

Like I don't think Alear is a lock or anything, I just don't expect Intelligent Systems to pass up a new protag when every new protag since Ike has been playable in Smash lol
 

Louie G.

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There was kind of a mass delusion within the community about Mewtwo at the time that must have brainwashed people into seeing what they wanted to see.
I'm not claiming to be above this, but in retrospect it's quite funny that so many of us felt satisfied in adding Mewtwo or "Awakened Mewtwo" / Mega Mewtwo Y as the Gen 6 representative instead of a brand new Pokemon. Mewtwo coming back was expected to be treated as something of a newcomer reveal even though they had only missed one game. Back then the goal was to find "this generation's Lucario" which I guess was deemed to be Mewtwo again.

The thought of adding a singular starter Pokemon was seen as ridiculous after Pokemon Trainer, which indicated TPC and Smash did not want to give credibility to one starter over the others. Which is really funny to reflect on after getting two starter Pokemon and much of the community just assuming that we're going to get another.

I just don't think Intelligent Systems is going to suddenly pass up an opportunity.
This is a little entitled of them, no? I mean, what are they going to do, not let Sakurai add their other characters? This premise isn't a matter of Intelligent Systems shrugging it off and saying "we don't want it", it's the presumption that Sakurai may not be interested. Something that struck me a lot is that article where Sakurai suggests Robin was a benefactor of good timing and may not have even made it give or take a couple months. Which to your point, fine if Engage lines up accordingly. But against your point, I don't think this is something Intelligent Systems has as much leverage on as you think.

At least certainly not as much as TPC, who pretty much has the authority to pull the plug if they aren't happy. Pokemon is bigger than Smash. Fire Emblem is just happy to be here. Alear could happen or could not but that's up to Sakurai and not really up to IntSys being hungry. They don't decide the roster - but perhaps if he wants someone new from Fire Emblem, they can point him in the right direction. If he doesn't, then that's that really.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Like I don't think Alear is a lock or anything, I just don't expect Intelligent Systems to pass up a new protag when every new protag since Ike has been playable in Smash lol
Where's Micaiah then? :4pacman:

Don't mind me, I'm just being an asshole.
 
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