Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Will]

They should bring back this taunt for Link:

I just think it gives him a shred of personality.

What shred? A shred that tells him that he needs a haircut?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Explaining stuff...like I was doing. So you have no reason to quote me either.



You were talking about Cuphead being more popular than Contra, which you exaggerated with sales that we don't have currently for both series. Nobody is disputing the game's success, it's just that it's not a direct indication of the game's popularity. This is really just another reason why I say people shouldn't obsessed with sales so much, as people could easily say Wii Fit is more popular than the Smash Bros series too.

Yeah, we can come to that conclusion. That's fine with me.

I pointed out that Cuphead sold over 6 million copies before the release of the PS4 version, the DLC and the TV show, where is the exaggeration in that?

You were talking about how Cuphead’s success isn’t that impressive, because of the time frame it released in, as if that’s a knock against it.

Why are you suggesting I’m obsessed with sales? I gave you plenty of reasons beyond sales to prove Cuphead’s popularity, and you just chose to dismiss it.

I want to end this conversation, but a bit of good faith would be nice.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

 

[Laniv]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

Honestly? I think there's something to be said about Bubsy deserving some sort of rep in Smash

 

[BrawlX10]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

That doesn't need a debate, everyone knows Balan is famous, even my uncle knows him.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

The true answer is they should both get in

 

[Guynamednelson]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

Balan shouldn't be in because Smash has more than 1 button

 

[ninjahmos]

Honestly? I think there's something to be said about Bubsy deserving some sort of rep in Smash

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[BrawlX10]

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing too worring. He will just make Steve look like Brawl Ganondorf.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What could pawsibly go wrong?

Fixed that for you

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The true answer is they should both get in

Not before the Big Rig.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I pointed out that Cuphead sold over 6 million copies before the release of the PS4 version, the DLC and the TV show, where is the exaggeration in that?

You were talking about how Cuphead’s success isn’t that impressive, because of the time frame it released in, as if that’s a knock against it.

Why are you suggesting I’m obsessed with sales? I gave you plenty of reasons beyond sales to prove Cuphead’s popularity, and you just chose to dismiss it.

I want to end this conversation, but a bit of good faith would be nice.

Because you said Cuphead was more popular than the whole Contra series and was bringing up Contra's old sales from way back in 1996. The eras are just way too wide and we don't have any current numbers, so this comparison just doesn't work. Those other things you mentioned shows it's popularity sure but it just shows that it has more exposure, not necessarily that it's more popular than Contra (which can easily get the same thing at any point, as seen with series like Castlevania).

If you thought I was knocking on Cuphead, I wasn't. I really have nothing against Cuphead getting in Smash at all. In fact, I bought and played Cuphead and got the Mii costume for Smash Ultimate. I was more talking about the order of things. It'd feel more right to have Bill/Lance first and then Cuphead later. Like, imagine getting Shovel Knight first then getting Simon or Mega Man later. It just sounds kind of backwards that way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If you thought I was knocking on Cuphead, I wasn't. I really have nothing against Cuphead getting in Smash at all. In fact, I bought and played Cuphead and got the Mii costume for Smash Ultimate. I was more talking about the order of things. It'd feel more right to have Bill/Lance first and then Cuphead later. Like, imagine getting Shovel Knight first then getting Simon or Mega Man later. It just sounds kind of backwards that way.

And yet we got some JRPG characters before we got Hero, whose series basically invented the genre (not sure if it ACTUALLY was the first but it certainly was the one that turned the genre into a phenomenon), including Joker from the very pass Hero was added in or Cloud from the very same company as Hero even if only because of mergers.

There's no such thing as an absolute need to bring the absolute FIRST or EARLIEST innovator of a genre in Smash before all else.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

The closest they've gotten to it was the New Play Control! games on the Wii and even then, you can make the argument that implementing the motion controls validated their existence alongside the GameCube originals that were also compatible with the Wii.

The Switch 2 doesn't seem to have anything substantial enough to justify something similar for Switch 1 ports. Sure, there's mouse controls but very few games would benefit from having that and the few that do, such as Mario Maker, might as well just get new games given they got proper sequels on Switch rather than Wii U ports.

Why are you forgetting the big increase in power on the switch 2 compared to the switch 1?
Just saying that’s another thing, I doubt if Ultimate got the deluxe treatment it would look graphically exactly the same without any touches on the switch 2.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why are you forgetting the big increase in power on the switch 2 compared to the switch 1?

We don't even know if that will actually be a thing yet.

Sure, the rumors could be true but we could also just be getting a marginally stronger Switch.

It's best to wait for official specs to be shared before treating its comparability with the PS4 Pro as gospel.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Not before the Big Rig.

It's entire moveset just consists of variations of driving backwards at high speed, past the border of the stage, and even past the blast zones, all to damage opponents with attacks deliberately designed to look like glitches.

Oh, and it has no victory theme. Just a still image of a three-handled gold trophy (which also serves as it's franchise icon) and text that says "YOU'RE WINNER!"

 

[Guynamednelson]

We don't even know if that will actually be a thing yet.

Sure, the rumors could be true but we could also just be getting a marginally stronger Switch.

It's best to wait for official specs to be shared before treating its comparability with the PS4 Pro as gospel.

No matter how weak or strong the Switch 2 is, I don't really see the point in the next Smash having more detailed character models than Pyra's anyway. Except during victory animations, the camera is too far away to see just how much more detailed PS4-quality models would be.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No matter how weak or strong the Switch 2 is, I don't really see the point in the next Smash having more detailed character models than Pyra's anyway. Except during victory animations, the camera is too far away to see just how much more detailed PS4-quality models would be.

Maybe but if the Switch 2 is strong enough, they can cut Pyra and Mythra to bring the original Rex concept instead

They're never gonna do that now that the two halves of the Aegis are established characters but imagine if they actually did lmao

 

[Wonder Smash]

And yet we got some JRPG characters before we got Hero, whose series basically invented the genre (not sure if it ACTUALLY was the first but it certainly was the one that turned the genre into a phenomenon), including Joker from the very pass Hero was added in or Cloud from the very same company as Hero even if only because of mergers.

There's no such thing as an absolute need to bring the absolute FIRST or EARLIEST innovator of a genre in Smash before all else.

So answer me this; how do you think I felt when I saw Joker in Smash?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And answer me this; how do you think I felt when I saw Joker in Smash?

How should I know? I wasn't really hanging out in Smashboards during Fighters Pass 1 so I kinda missed a lot of the specula here.

Were you pissed because he wasn't Dragon Quest?

 

[ninjahmos]

If Tails ever gets into Smash, they could use his tails as a double/triple jump, a floating ability or his up special. Maybe even all of the above.

Also, his moveset could be based on the Sonic Adventure series, which could also be said for Knuckles.

 

[Wonder Smash]

How should I know? I wasn't really hanging out in Smashboards during Fighters Pass 1 so I kinda missed a lot of the specula here.

Were you pissed because he wasn't Dragon Quest?

That's one of the reasons.

Dragon Quest is like video game royalty in the RPG genre so yeah, I was like "where the heck is Dragon Quest!?". I hated seeing Joker in Smash Ultimate but fortunately, I got over it really fast when Hero was revealed months later in that same pass.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Is the argument that in terms of run and gun 2d games, Contra takes precedence over Cuphead due to being something of the archetype in the field, whereas the latter's popularity has somewhat waned?

I feel like the fact we have a Mii Costume for Cuphead and nothing for Contra already kinda spoils that idea. Since Tekken was considered before the devs included Street Fighter, I don't think Sakurai is really looking at inclusions from the lens of genre rep, especially not to keep Cuphead off the table until Contra gets on.

The logic is kinda funny though. Imagine if Bayonetta was off the table until Kratos joined or smt

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The logic is kinda funny though. Imagine if Bayonetta was off the table until Kratos joined or smt

That's a good point, actually.

We got an M-Rated witch before a Koei Tecmo character, specifically something from the Warriors series, so we should all throw stones at Sakurai and Nintendo until they relent and give us Lu Bu

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Meanwhile, I still just want Hero to have less RNG elements or at least less potentially instant death attacks.

...I really need to play some Dragon Quest games at some point. Still wouldn't change my opinion on the Heros' instant death attacks and RNG in Ultimate though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

...I really need to play some Dragon Quest games at some point

I think the mobile port of Dragon Quest 1 was free at one point, but unfortunately that was years ago and it's $3 now.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Meanwhile, I still just want Hero to have less RNG elements or at least less potentially instant death attacks.

...I really need to play some Dragon Quest games at some point. Still wouldn't change my opinion on the Heros' instant death attacks and RNG in Ultimate though.

As a fun fact, none of the four Heroes can perform all of the spells, and none of them can even do the instant death ones.

Hero got the Mother treatment of getting stuff from the party members for a more "complete" moveset so Sakurai wasn't even thinking of being accurate when giving them Whack or Thwack.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Well it's a good thing we already got Wario, so people can't complain about Peppino.

 

[ninjahmos]

That's a good point, actually.

We got an M-Rated witch before a Koei Tecmo character, specifically something from the Warriors series, so we should all throw stones at Sakurai and Nintendo until they relent and give us Lu Bu

You joke, but Lu Bu would still be an awesome Smash character.

…But Hayabusa is probably more likely anyway.

 

[PlasmaDam]

In fine with fe having alot of reps but I would like more unique ones It's crazy that half of the fe cast a similar side b.I would like them to replace fe chracthers than cut imo

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If this whole matter is still this heated, then the thread's really not gonna like my idea about having a debate on whether Bubsy or Balan Wonderworld should be getting Smash inclusions.

Interesting, but I think we can go further with this.

If you had to add one character to be the representative of bad video games, who would you pick?

Bubsy would probably be my favorite choice.

Alternatively

Spoiler

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Interesting, but I think we can go further with this.

If you had to add one character to be the representative of bad video games, who would you pick?

Bubsy would probably be my favorite choice.

Alternatively

Spoiler

View attachment 399473

There is an amusing catch 22 in that the title character from Arzette the Jewel of Faramore would be an ideal source for a Smash moveset representing Zelda CD-I releases but ironically is too good a game to actually be emblematic of bad titles.

 

[BrawlX10]

If you had to add one character to be the representative of bad video games, who would you pick?

Balan, of course.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You joke, but Lu Bu would still be an awesome Smash character.

…But Hayabusa is probably more likely anyway.

Well yeah, if I'm gonna make a joke, I at least wanna try to say a cool addition unless being a bad addition IS the joke lmao

 

[ninjahmos]

If you had to add one character to be the representative of bad video games, who would you pick?

OK, this is three characters, but at least they're from a bad game.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Is the argument that in terms of run and gun 2d games, Contra takes precedence over Cuphead due to being something of the archetype in the field, whereas the latter's popularity has somewhat waned?

I feel like the fact we have a Mii Costume for Cuphead and nothing for Contra already kinda spoils that idea. Since Tekken was considered before the devs included Street Fighter, I don't think Sakurai is really looking at inclusions from the lens of genre rep, especially not to keep Cuphead off the table until Contra gets on.

The logic is kinda funny though. Imagine if Bayonetta was off the table until Kratos joined or smt

This was about playable appearances though and Tekken and Street Fighter were two very different series. This is more like my Shovel Knight example that I gave earlier. Or even Super Meat Boy before those games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

OK, this is three characters, but at least they're from a bad game.

I would be down for the Cheetahmen for the music alone.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If we don't get at least one or two Indie fighters in Smash at some point, I'd at least like to see a fighter game that consists and is dedicated to a number of Indie games that were big or even decent hits.

Commander Video, Shantae, Shovel Knight and some of the other protagonists from the other story campaigns in Treasure Trove, Ori and Sein, Dust and Fidget, Freddy and a few other animatronics, at least two Undertale characters, Hat Kid, the Knight, Hornet, Peppino, and Arzette are all characters I think would be great candidates for a fighter game. If not some of them like Shovel Knight or Shantae in Smash itself, then one dedicated to various Indie franchises.

A few of them like Shovel Knight and Ori and Sein have thankfully at least guest starred in a handful of fighter games, but I think a crossover game that's actually dedicated to Indie game franchises as a whole is overdue.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If we don't get at least one or two Indie fighters in Smash at some point, I'd at least like to see a fighter game that consists and is dedicated to a number of Indie games that were big or even decent hits.

Commander Video, Shantae, Shovel Knight and some of the other protagonists from the other story campaigns in Treasure Trove, Ori and Sein, Dust and Fidget, Freddy and a few other animatronics, at least two Undertale characters, Hat Kid, the Knight, Hornet, Peppino, and Arzette are all characters I think would be great candidates for a fighter game. If not some of them like Shovel Knight or Shantae in Smash itself, then one dedicated to various Indie franchises.

A few of them like Shovel Knight and Ori and Sein have thankfully at least guest starred in a handful of fighter games, but I think a crossover game that's actually dedicated to Indie game franchises as a whole is overdue.

May I point out that Fraymakers exists?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

May I point out that Fraymakers exists?

Doesn't that game still have a fairly small number of (non-modded) characters on it's roster?

That might be a good example regardless though. I admittedly forgot about Fraymakers.