Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[toonito]

Re: Female characters for Smash 6

My most wanted female characters are:

Chun-Li
Impa
Tifa
Jill Valentine
Djeeta (Granblue)
Nakoruru
2B
Sophie (Monster Hunter Stories 1)
Shionne (Tales of Arise)
Blaze (Streets of Rage)

 

[fogbadge]

I missed the female characters talk, but i thing Blanc from Neptunia is a better choice for Smash than Neptune.
Foul language aside, she represents Nintendo

so did conker for a time

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

...honestly i didn't know that, dont really keep up with WW.
You're right she had a rough timing, guess she has better odds than in 4.
At very least i think a NEW WarioWare AT and stage is on the table.

I feel like Get It Together being a million plus seller (meaning it did pretty well for itself considering WarioWare's normal numbers) where you actually play AS the characters rather than just playing games they made could lead to something, but again, it depends on if the team deems another WarioWare character worthwhile. Granted that could be said for about any character, but yeah.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I missed the female characters talk, but i thing Blanc from Neptunia is a better choice for Smash than Neptune.
Foul language aside, she represents Nintendo

It would be very cheeky of Nintendo to add the living Wii reference.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

3rd Party:

• Phoenix Wright: My most wanted 3rd party. Has good history with Nintendo and got a popularity boost on Switch, where the entire series is now playable (aside of the Layton crossover). Bonus if they include Miles Edgeworth as an Echo.
• Chun-Li: The original female fighter, has a lot of legacy and popularity to not be in.
• Arle Nadja: From a series with a lot of history, would be a great Puzzle/Magical Girl representative.
• Athena Asamiya: Personal pick for a second SNK character. Like Terry, she has her own series which predates King of Fighters.
• Terra (Final Fantasy 6): Personal favorite FF protagonist, and a good choice to represent an FF game that isn't FF7.
• Shantae: Acknowledged by Sakurai as a popular request. Could get a promotion to playable.

I'd rather if Phoenix got an echo it would be Ryunosuke since he shares some of Phoenix's animations in Ace Attorney already

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel like Get It Together being a million plus seller where you actually play AS the characters rather than just playing games they made could lead to something, but again, it depends on if the team deems another WarioWare character worthwhile. Granted that could be said for about any character, but yeah.

Given who makes the WarioWare games, there's a good chance they would push for more Fire Emblem instead

 

[Garteam]

Point is even if the characters have popularity, in a smaller roster, where 3rd party space is limited even more than in Ultimate, I highly, like seriously doubt anyone (both from the audience and from the team) would go for a 2nd Mega Man character, even as a clone over giving a 2nd character to Sonic or giving a new 3rd party character a slot. It's something that is irrelevant to how the team sees Mega Man himself and more about how much it feels like the universe needs to be expanded (in which case, not really)

Putting aside that we don't know the comparative size of the next Smash's roster to Ultimate's and we don't know how many third parties will or will not be cut, you're projecting your opinions onto others without evidence. If no one from Smash's audience would go for a second Mega Man rep, why do videos advocating for a second Mega Man rep or, in the case of the X mod, taking active steps to add to add additional Mega Man content like this exist?

Spoiler

There's more to Smash characters than just being "franchise reps". Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Castlevania, and ARMS are basically the only situations where Sakurai desired a character from a specific series and filled in the spot in later. Otherwise, characters are basically always added for their intrinsic identity rather than just being "Mario Character #6" or "Sonic Character #2".

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Given who makes the WarioWare games, there's a good chance they would push for more Fire Emblem instead

Who's the girl next door living in the haunted mansion?

You better learn her name because it's Ver-on-i-ca.

 

[Ivander]

Given who makes the WarioWare games, there's a good chance they would push for more Fire Emblem instead

Yeah, they'll push for her mother instead.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah, they'll push for her mother instead.

Smash is for good boys and girls of all ages.

 

[SharkLord]

Smash is for good boys and girls of all ages.

For now, at least



For now

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Given who makes the WarioWare games, there's a good chance they would push for more Fire Emblem instead

I mean the House Leaders and Alear ARE in Get It Together and Move It, respectively.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like Get It Together being a million plus seller (meaning it did pretty well for itself considering WarioWare's normal numbers) where you actually play AS the characters rather than just playing games they made could lead to something, but again, it depends on if the team deems another WarioWare character worthwhile. Granted that could be said for about any character, but yeah.

Personally, I don't think WarioWare's Switch performance is really going to act as an incentive to add another character. It wouldn't be a deterrent either, if the conversation arises through different means (Ashley's popularity, moveset potential, etc) but one million units is arguably bog standard for a first party Nintendo title on the Switch. It's good by WW standards, but clearly not impressive enough to be the focus of any of those sales reports of series growth like Kirby, Metroid, Pikmin and Xenoblade had.

I think the point about playing as the characters is solid enough though. That does open things up a bit more, since none of them typically "do" much otherwise. Jimmy T had that skiing game in Game & Wario, Ashley had her own game there as well (not unlike her playstyle in Get It Together, actually). But Get It Together helped continue the trend of making Wario's friends (?) a bit more of a focal point than before. Ever since WarioWare Gold I feel like the ensemble has been given more focus, but to Ashley's potential detriment she isn't treated any more special than the others.

 

[Dukefire]

A little off topic to shave some discussion heat away, Shantae Advance: Risky Revolution on steam is available for you to view. So, there maybe some hope for later release to all consoles after the GBA copies are released.

Spoiler: Image

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Personally, I don't think WarioWare's Switch performance is really going to act as an incentive to add another character. It wouldn't be a deterrent either, if the conversation arises through different means (Ashley's popularity, moveset potential, etc) but one million units is arguably bog standard for a first party Nintendo title on the Switch. It's good by WW standards, but clearly not impressive enough to be the focus of any of those sales reports of series growth like Kirby, Metroid, Pikmin and Xenoblade had.

I think the point about playing as the characters is solid enough though. That does open things up a bit more, since none of them typically "do" much otherwise. Jimmy T had that skiing game in Game & Wario, Ashley had her own game there as well (not unlike her playstyle in Get It Together, actually). But Get It Together helped continue the trend of making Wario's friends (?) a bit more of a focal point than before. Ever since WarioWare Gold I feel like the ensemble has been given more focus, but to Ashley's potential detriment she isn't treated any more special than the others.

This is 5-Volt's time now. :V

She's clearly been training for her promotion from stage hazard to fighter.

 

[Ivander]

Smash is for good boys and girls of all ages.

We'll get Tharja in Ashley's outfit to make her safe for Smash Bros. Which I would post art of, but I am flabbergasted that I cannot find any, considering alot of people like their cosplays.

 

[SharkLord]

As a side note it's kinda funny how Tharja's evolved (devolved?) into the fanservicey goth girl in heroes supplementary material, when in Awakening she was the socially awkward weirdo who likes dark magic and is actually quite self-concious about her attire. Why she doesn't change out, I don't know, maybe the Dark Mage outfit is needed for the hexes or something. But it's still curious how much her general perception differs from the source material.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This is 5-Volt's time now. :V

She's clearly been training for her promotion from stage hazard to fighter.

Can lift furniture one-handed while awake, can teleport when asleep.

What can't she do?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As a side note it's kinda funny how Tharja's evolved (devolved?) into the fanservicey goth girl in heroes supplementary material, when in Awakening she was the socially awkward weirdo who likes dark magic and is actually quite self-concious about her attire. Why she doesn't change out, I don't know, maybe the Dark Mage outfit is needed for the hexes or something. But it's still curious how much her general perception differs from the source material.

Didn't Heroes change her design to be more fanservicey too? Which to be fair, we've had some alternate personalities in various crossovers/etc. before. Lucina in Smash Ultimate's dubbed text has a different personality from her Japanese one. So it's quite variable. It's not subtle like Mario being a bit more serious akin to his various RPG variations(though it's not heavily present in Super Mario RPG, he's far more likely to look serious in the other two rpg sub-series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As a side note it's kinda funny how Tharja's evolved (devolved?) into the fanservicey goth girl in heroes supplementary material, when in Awakening she was the socially awkward weirdo who likes dark magic and is actually quite self-concious about her attire. Why she doesn't change out, I don't know, maybe the Dark Mage outfit is needed for the hexes or something. But it's still curious how much her general perception differs from the source material.

I always saw it as just... needing to have an outfit like that since she lived in a literal desert where **** gets really damn hot.

Didn't Heroes change her design to be more fanservicey too? Which to be fair, we've had some alternate personalities in various crossovers/etc. before. Lucina in Smash Ultimate's dubbed text has a different personality from her Japanese one. So it's quite variable. It's not subtle like Mario being a bit more serious akin to his various RPG variations(though it's not heavily present in Super Mario RPG, he's far more likely to look serious in the other two rpg sub-series.

The base design is unchanged. But the fact that the only alt of her that doesn't show a generous amount of skin in a fanservice way is her in a wedding dress is very telling. Even her Winter alt is basically a bikini.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Personally, I don't think WarioWare's Switch performance is really going to act as an incentive to add another character. It wouldn't be a deterrent either, if the conversation arises through different means (Ashley's popularity, moveset potential, etc) but one million units is arguably bog standard for a first party Nintendo title on the Switch. It's good by WW standards, but clearly not impressive enough to be the focus of any of those sales reports of series growth like Kirby, Metroid, Pikmin and Xenoblade had.

I think the point about playing as the characters is solid enough though. That does open things up a bit more, since none of them typically "do" much otherwise. Jimmy T had that skiing game in Game & Wario, Ashley had her own game there as well (not unlike her playstyle in Get It Together, actually). But Get It Together helped continue the trend of making Wario's friends (?) a bit more of a focal point than before. Ever since WarioWare Gold I feel like the ensemble has been given more focus, but to Ashley's potential detriment she isn't treated any more special than the others.

That's true. Get It Together is the third best selling game in the series (Touched and Smooth Moves have it beat by a mil each lol) so its sales wouldn't be a huge point in its favor and it's certainly not growth, mostly just me being like "wow it actually charts on the lists I look up for sales numbers" lol

And that is true that Ashley isn't treated as particularly special among the cast (if anyone is in Get It Together, it'd hilariously enough be Pyoro since he's the true final boss of that game lmao), but having a playable appearance alongside her popularity may boost her up a bit above the others to make her a frontrunner in that kind of scenario.

 

[SharkLord]

I always saw it as just... needing to have an outfit like that since she lived in a literal desert where **** gets really damn hot.

I'd assume so, but... All black? Wouldn't that absorb more heat? It seems kinda self-defeating, if the aim is to cool off.

The base design is unchanged. But the fact that the only alt of her that doesn't show a generous amount of skin in a fanservice way is her in a wedding dress is very telling. Even her Winter alt is basically a bikini.

And said winter alt is an Armor unit, despite the complete lack thereof

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd assume so, but... All black? Wouldn't that absorb more heat? It seems kinda self-defeating, if the aim is to cool off.

She may not be the smartest person

And said winter alt is an Armor unit, despite the complete lack thereof

That's actually normal for seasonal alts in Heroes.

Heck, everyone in the banner that alt debuted in was an armor unit, but all they had was variations of their default design.

 

[Ivander]

Didn't Heroes change her design to be more fanservicey too?

Her base design's the same, but her personality originally started more fanservicey until later alts where she's back to more socially awkward(heck, she has a running gag with Sharena where she practically exhausts herself trying to look more open and peppy for Sharena because of how hyper-social Sharena is and when Sharena leaves her sight, she's like, "Oh thank the gods, I can end this facade.).

The base design is unchanged. But the fact that the only alt of her that doesn't show a generous amount of skin in a fanservice way is her in a wedding dress is very telling. Even her Winter alt is basically a bikini.

Getting her a Brave version could change that, considering how Camilla ended up getting more clothes from getting a Brave and Legendary version. Her Adrift version is also less fanservicey, but it was meant to be since it's not the real Camilla and only a dream version from a child Azura. Heck, Adrift Camilla's personality is also alot more conservative, as she's outright embarrassed by her real version's dress manner and gets flustered when asked if she can give a lap pillow, something that regular Camilla likes to give.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

That's true. Get It Together is the third best selling game in the series (Touched and Smooth Moves have it beat by a mil each lol) so its sales wouldn't be a huge point in its favor and it's certainly not growth, mostly just me being like "wow it actually charts on the lists I look up for sales numbers" lol

And that is true that Ashley isn't treated as particularly special among the cast (if anyone is in Get It Together, it'd hilariously enough be Pyoro since he's the true final boss of that game lmao), but having a playable appearance alongside her popularity may boost her up a bit above the others to make her a frontrunner in that kind of scenario.

The final Smash 6 character is the leaker Pyoro getting executed

 

[Ivander]

You know, after playing Get it Together, I'm quite sad that Mario Maker 2 didn't bring back Amiibo costumes or NSO hasn't tried to do like "Nintendo-made" Romhacks of some of their games on NSO. I thought there was something very fun about doing the Super Mario World levels with WarioWare characters in Get it Together.

 

[Pupp135]

Alright, I'll ask.....what do you think about Ashley's chance to join as a fighter rather then being an Assist Trophy twice so far?
View attachment 399673

She‘s not highly likely as Wario Ware doesn’t seem like a high priority franchise compared to others, but I do think Ashley has a decent chance as she seems to have a decent number of requests, and she has multiple types of NPC content, with the assist trophy and Mii outfit being the most prominent.

Continuing on the topic of female fighters, what is everyone’s opinions on the chances for the ones currently on the roster returning? From what I’ve seen, I think the majority assumes that at least Samus, the Melee princesses, Mii Fighters (Gunner does use a female default), Isabelle, Inkling, and Aegis are likely returns. Here are the fighters I’m considering, but feel free to add characters with female alts like Villager, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth.

Spoiler: Fighters

Samus
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda
Sheik
Ice Climbers (I do count Nana towards the roster)
Zero Suit Samus
Wii Fit Trainer
Rosalina
Mii Fighters
Palutena
Lucina
Bayonetta
Inkling
Princess Daisy
Dark Samus
Isabelle
Min Min
Aegis

Edit: I decided to assess these myself

Spoiler: Assessment

Guarantees
: Perfect Attendee (Original Eight), Metroid is still a relevant franchise.
: Core character in Nintendo’s flagship franchise
: Core character of a core Nintendo franchise
: I feel like the marketing of Mii costumes will keep them afloat
: Even if echoes were pruned like Melee clones for the jump between Melee and Brawl, she’s a popular character from Fire Emblem’s renaissance. Also, she was selected for Awakening’s base game emblem in Engage.
: Splatoon is too important to exclude
: The only way she’d be cut is if they demoted her back to Peach’s alt, but I don’t see Sakurai doing that now.
: Core character of a core Nintendo franchise
Highly Likely (80-90% chance)
: I could see her getting cut if echoes were being pruned, but the Ballot should help her
Likely (60-80% chance)
: An odd choice to put in this tier, but I think these characters are highly valued by Sakurai if they were starters in Melee and Brawl and were worked on heavily on the 3DS version. The 3DS is the only reason that they aren’t series staples, kind of like Pokemon Trainer. If I had to put a more specific number, I think 65% sounds about right.
: She’s a popular character from the Super Mario series, and Sakurai seems to value the puppet gimmick. Her biggest issue stems from potentially conflicting priorities. Like Ice Climbers, I think a 65% chance seems fair.
: Third parties are hard for me to gauge after the For base game ones and the Street Fighter ones, but Bayonetta helps build relationships with Sega and Nintendo, and she’s probably easier to license. For the moment, I’m leaning towards a 65% chance.
: She may be a divisive fighter in Ultimate, but ARMS is the most contemporary IP on the current roster. At the moment, I have Min Min at a 70% chance of returning.
: Like Min Min, Aegis helps keeps things contemporary, and it helps that they’re more popular than Min Min. I have them at a 75% chance.
Slightly North of Toss-Up (55%)
: Zero Suit Samus feels like a throwaway pick at a first glance, and the other fighters feel like larger priorities than her, but Sakurai seems to find her as an important addition, so I could see her staying. Also, the Armorless Samus has been a recurringMetroid easter egg.
Pure Toss-Up (50%)
: Sheik has never been cut since Melee, but part of me feels like it deals with her being a tagalong to Zelda after they were added in Melee.
: This is a really weird character to assess. On the one hand, the Wii series was monumentally successful, and Wii Fit Trainer was one of For’s first reveals. On the other hand, I could see her fall out the wayside given conflicting priorities.
: Kid Icarus is a dormant franchise, but it is a prominent one for SSB, and Palutena was requested, which may help keep her around.

 

[Gengar84]

Re: Female characters for Smash 6

Glad to see another Shionne fan. She was such a great character. As a stand-alone fighter, I feel like Velvet makes more sense but Shionne would be awesome as part of a tag duo with Alphen.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

She‘s not highly likely as Wario Ware doesn’t seem like a high priority franchise compared to others, but I do think Ashley has a decent chance as she seems to have a decent number of requests, and she has multiple types of NPC content, with the assist trophy and Mii outfit being the most prominent.

Continuing on the topic of female fighters, what is everyone’s opinions on the chances for the ones currently on the roster returning? From what I’ve seen, I think the majority assumes that at least Samus, the Melee princesses, Mii Fighters (Gunner does use a female default), Isabelle, Inkling, and Aegis are likely returns. Here are the fighters I’m considering, but feel free to add characters with female alts like Villager, Robin, Corrin, and Byleth.

Spoiler: Fighters

Samus
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda
Sheik
Ice Climbers (I do count Nana towards the roster)
Zero Suit Samus
Wii Fit Trainer
Rosalina
Mii Fighters
Palutena
Lucina
Bayonetta
Inkling
Princess Daisy
Dark Samus
Isabelle
Min Min
Aegis

Peach, Zelda, Samus, Inkling and Isabelle are the only guarantees IMO. But we should be getting some combination of the rest of them.

 

[Louie G.]

Continuing on the topic of female fighters, what is everyone’s opinions on the chances for the ones currently on the roster returning?

Almost Definitely -
Very Likely (echoes) -
Likely, IMO -
IDK yet -
*Does this even count? -

Something I'll say about this is that I don't think any of these candidates are total goners - ZSS and WFT are less so "I think they'll be cut" and more "idk what to make of it". And honestly, even though we're bound to get more, I think Sakurai values the amount of female fighters we have in the game and would be hesitant to remove too many. So I'd say the chances of most of these characters returning is very high.

 

[Dukefire]

Almost Definitely -
Very Likely (echoes) -
Likely, IMO -
IDK yet -
*Does this even count? -

Something I'll say about this is that I don't think any of these candidates are total goners - ZSS and WFT are less so "I think they'll be cut" and more "idk what to make of it". And honestly, even though we're bound to get more, I think Sakurai values the amount of female fighters we have in the game and would be hesitant to remove too many. So I'd say the chances of most of these characters returning is very high.

Doesn't count for the female group?

 

[Perkilator]

Speaking of GiT, I think it'd make for a pretty fun stage in the next game.

 

[Louie G.]

Doesn't count for the female group?

I don't think Smash has confirmed one way or the other (usually sticks to "it" pronouns) so I'd rather not include Pokemon in the equation here.

 

[toonito]

Glad to see another Shionne fan. She was such a great character. As a stand-alone fighter, I feel like Velvet makes more sense but Shionne would be awesome as part of a tag duo with Alphen.

yeah i like Shionne as a tag with Alphen. funny enough i like Alex and Blaze as a tag duo for Smash as well.

 

[Pupp135]

*Does this even count? -

As Nintendo uses feminine pronouns for these characters, I’d count them.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

*Does this even count? -

Asking "Does this even count?" for a character who is explicitly a woman in disguise is certainly a decision you've taken today.

 

[Louie G.]

Asking "Does this even count?" for a character who is explicitly a woman in disguise is certainly a decision you've taken today.

I've seen it debated, even in this very thread. I didn't feel like starting anything and made a light joke about it - apparently even that set someone off, lol.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Asking "Does this even count?" for a character who is explicitly a woman in disguise is certainly a decision you've taken today.

Sheik debates on whether or not she straight up swaps gender have dated back since debut.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sheik debates on whether or not she straight up swaps gender have dated back since debut.

Maybe but it's ultimately still a fake identity so that Zelda can do stuff without worrying about Ganondorf.

I've always personally seen it as more of a Mulan thing because of it.

It also helps that iirc, the only times Sheik has been referred to with male pronouns was in English localizations. And in the case of OoT, it was only from a single line of dialogue by Ruto.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Maybe but it's ultimately still a fake identity so that Zelda can do stuff without worrying about Ganondorf.

I've always personally seen it as more of a Mulan thing because of it.

It also helps that iirc, the only times Sheik has been referred to with male pronouns was in English localizations. And in the case of OoT, it was only from a single line of dialogue by Ruto.

It's still a fair question to ask since while Sheik may be biologically female (again, assuming magic isn't used to actually change her biology which had been the primary source of debate), the Sheik persona may identify as male regardless of Zelda being a woman.

I'd say she counts because Smash uses the female pronouns, but it's not an unreasonable question that warranted hostility.