Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wario Bros.]

Ultimate is really the only game where the Modes felt underwhelming. No Target Test of some sort is just plain "ooooooof". I don't mind other lack of stuff(like Smash Run), but that's a staple mode at that point. Sure, we got Race to the Finish back in a way that felt closer to Smash 64's unique style(with a lot more crazy obstacles and a single exit), but it's still not the same.

Everything else is not too bad, though I do agree Adventure Mode is a bit eh. My main issue is that they couldn't have found a way to make Master Hand playable in other modes(would requiring finishing Adventure Mode first as an unlock, mayhaps?) under the same rules. He was really fun to use (again). His moveset being closer to how it was in Smash 64(normal controls) was a really good move too.

I still don't get why WoL Master Hand wasn't made into a fully playable character. They went through the effort of making him but wasted him to just a single battle that you can't replay without restarting WoL all over. Not even in a free game update.

I wouldn't have cared if he would be banned from competitive play.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think the grand spectacle nature of Smash these days means less of a chance for the older, more disquieting tone to come back. 64 was dream like eeriness, Melee underground/quasi futuristic, and Brawl edgy, but even in the latter game you could see the march towards a very epic feel as to what Smash was becoming, even if it was somewhat obfuscated by the then trend towards realism.

SSB being a big deal does lend itself easier to the marketing and hype dipping its toes into the "celebration of gaming" idea, but it does feel like it comes at the cost of the more idiosyncratic vibes the early titles had.

 

[Louie G.]

I do hope next game deviates in its theming and style, at least. Ultimate is an extension of arguably what the series has been since Brawl, inarguably what it's been since Smash 4, and I think coming in with a bold new tone / atmosphere would be a great step toward making this game feel like its own thing independent from Ultimate.

As others seem to address, I think this is an underappreciated aspect of the Smash games of old. I think 64, Melee and Brawl all had very confident aesthetic identities - going beyond characters to the music, menus, sound design etc. Smash 4 feels like the beginning of this identity beginning and ending with "it's Smash", maybe it's been intentionally generalized for massive crossover potential. But kind of underwhelming after Brawl's whole epic MEETING OF THE GODS flavor and I do especially appreciate Melee's very strange ominous atmosphere too. I'm not totally sure where to go from here but I think we need a better sense of thematic direction.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still don't get why WoL Master Hand wasn't made into a fully playable character. They went through the effort of making him but wasted him to just a single battle that you can't replay without restarting WoL all over. Not even in a free game update.

I wouldn't have cared if he would be banned from competitive play.

He doesn't have a full moveset, so a proper playable wouldn't work(probably cause of bugs). But being a mode option is fine, since it shouldn't be an issue.

But hey, at least he's properly playable in that case. Even if it's done in an underwhelming manner.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

He doesn't have a full moveset, so a proper playable wouldn't work(probably cause of bugs). But being a mode option is fine, since it shouldn't be an issue.

But hey, at least he's properly playable in that case. Even if it's done in an underwhelming manner.

I honestly would be okay if you could just replay the Master Hand segment any time you want instead of it being something you can only do once per save at the very end of WoL, but they kept it one-time-only for some reason and that at least felt strange to me lol

 

[Dukefire]

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Though, the same issue could be applied to Geno as explained before.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Based on what we know from Sora's inclusion, the only one who could possibly be problematic is Tetsuya Nomura himself

Disney was actually incredibly eager to have Sora in Smash and would likely be down for another go at it

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

I feel like he will because even though a lot of people see Disney as an issue, they were apparently pretty on-board for the whole thing and it was pretty simple once the ball got rolling, plus Sora is literally the most requested character in Smash history and considering Nomura's misgivings were about fitting it into the lore if I remember right (correct me if I'm wrong lol), since it's happened once I don't think those misgivings would be much of a factor again.

I could maaaaybe see Disney be weird about DLC because they don't really have many other original game IPs, but I feel like Sora would definitely come back one way or another, I just think he has a better shot for base than a lot of other people give him I think.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

considering Nomura's misgivings were about fitting it into the lore if I remember right (correct me if I'm wrong lol)

No, this is correct. Which is a very Nomura thing to worry about for a silly whacky crossover game where nothing matters lmao

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No, this is correct. Which is a very Nomura thing to worry about for a silly whacky crossover game where nothing matters lmao

Yeah I remembered reading something like that but I didn't remember if it was the only thing or not, but yeah in that case the Nomura misgivings shouldn't be an issue again, since Sora is already there now lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah I remembered reading something like that but I didn't remember if it was the only thing or not, but yeah in that case the Nomura misgivings shouldn't be an issue again, since Sora is already there now lol

But what if he has misgivings about Sora returning to Smash? Maybe in his mind, Sora can only "canonically" show up once in Smash

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

But what if he has misgivings about Sora returning to Smash? Maybe in his mind, Sora can only "canonically" show up once in Smash

It's fine, any following Soras in Smash are just a video game character from the Toy Story world.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Though, the same issue could be applied to Geno as explained before.

He was the most requested fighter in Smash history, if nothing else that probably means he'll be higher priority when it comes time to decide which third parties come back.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I still don't get why WoL Master Hand wasn't made into a fully playable character

I honestly think that it will happen one day other than WoL. Either as a separate game mode or somehow a regular fighter.

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Apparently Disney was fine with Sora being Smash so he probably isn’t hard to return as people think.

 

[Louie G.]

I want to suggest that just because a company was cooperative then doesn't necessarily mean that extends out toward base roster. I do think Disney will be eager to let Sora come back to Smash - we just don't have any context about how much the DLC incentive pushed things in a favorable direction. I imagine companies are much more excited to be on board when they can make more direct profit from the content they lend over. It's a different situation now.

Of all the companies in the game I trust Disney the least not to try and upsell unless Nintendo is willing to give them an exorbitant amount of money to bring back Ultimate's most wanted character. Which honestly, I wouldn't say is especially unlikely in itself. But no matter how friendly Disney was to negotiate Sora as DLC, I feel like the only other way Sora comes back on base is if we get sold something else later. I do think he will be back, the question is just "when".

On the flipside, I still believe Microsoft is a safe bet for base game collaboration. At this point they just seem concerned with branching out and keeping their brands visible, with Banjo probably being one of the easiest grabs and Steve being an especially big name to keep around. Unlike with Disney I feel more comfortable making this call off existing precedent - their ongoing collaborations with Nintendo including about a dozen Rare games on NSO clues me in that they aren't especially strict with their property. Or at least with Banjo.

It also helps that they've got so many strong candidates on deck, so it'd be easy to do the "upsell" strategy akin to Square Enix and just rake in the big bucks with the promise of later collaborations with Master Chief, Crash, whoever.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

No, this is correct. Which is a very Nomura thing to worry about for a silly whacky crossover game where nothing matters lmao

But it is neat to imagine that Sora canonically met Joker Persona 5 since that series also has a "everything is canon unless stated otherwise" kind of rule in place.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But it is neat to imagine that Sora canonically met Joker Persona 5 since that series also has a "everything is canon unless stated otherwise" kind of rule in place.

Joker voice PERSONA!

and then it's Ariel the Little Mermaid who shows up

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly would be okay if you could just replay the Master Hand segment any time you want instead of it being something you can only do once per save at the very end of WoL, but they kept it one-time-only for some reason and that at least felt strange to me lol

I'm completely good with that too. Same difference to me. He's just so fun to use~

 

[Lukingordex]

I recall like 11 years ago being tired of the "late 2000s edgyness" and being glad smash 4 was going to be more "happy looking" but nowdays I honestly miss it.

 

[Gengar84]

I’d love a more edgy style but I’m not particularly interested in repeating Brawl’s washed out photorealistic textures. I’d love to see something more stylized like 2XKO or Guilty Gear. Those designs are bright, flashy, and really pop while still having a lot of that badass attitude.

As far as a playable Master Hand, I really want to see a mode that lets players control the bosses. They don’t have to be balanced for competitive play since they’d just be a fun side mode.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Nintendo Music update this week was Link to the Past.

Pretty standard pick for it, but hey, it's a "standard" pick for a reason lol

Mostly kinda surprised it wasn't a Pokemon soundtrack to follow up on Pokemon Day tbh

 

[BrawlX10]

I do hope next game deviates in its theming and style, at least. Ultimate is an extension of arguably what the series has been since Brawl, inarguably what it's been since Smash 4, and I think coming in with a bold new tone / atmosphere would be a great step toward making this game feel like its own thing independent from Ultimate.

As others seem to address, I think this is an underappreciated aspect of the Smash games of old. I think 64, Melee and Brawl all had very confident aesthetic identities - going beyond characters to the music, menus, sound design etc. Smash 4 feels like the beginning of this identity beginning and ending with "it's Smash", maybe it's been intentionally generalized for massive crossover potential. But kind of underwhelming after Brawl's whole epic MEETING OF THE GODS flavor and I do especially appreciate Melee's very strange ominous atmosphere too. I'm not totally sure where to go from here but I think we need a better sense of thematic direction.

What could be the next art style be like?

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Though, the same issue could be applied to Geno as explained before.

Probably.
I'd say he might return base game with a new stage (Twilight Town) and a AT (Riku).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I would like the next Smash to have proper online functions.

Lack of roll back is the one area that Smash is still really lacking.

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out.

It makes me feel like I'm watching cringey-ass Kingdom Hearts-esque cutscenes.

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

Yes.

I recall like 11 years ago being tired of the "late 2000s edgyness" and being glad smash 4 was going to be more "happy looking" but nowdays I honestly miss it.

In today's world, I need more joy and less edgyness.

 

[NotGenerico]

I recall like 11 years ago being tired of the "late 2000s edgyness" and being glad smash 4 was going to be more "happy looking" but nowdays I honestly miss it.

I think a lot of people share the same sentiment. 2000s edgyness is cool again nowadays. I think it's a big part why Shadow the Hedgehog has had a huge resurgence in popularity.

 

[Gengar84]

In today's world, I need more joy and less edgyness.

I can’t really argue there. Though I think you can have joy and a cool factor at the same time. Maybe “edgy” isn’t quite the right word for what I’m looking for and it’s closer to just cool and stylized (though that’s subjective).

 

[AreJay25]

If we're talking aesthetics/vibes for the next game, something that I think would be cool is if they pulled a Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when it comes to the character select screen.

The characters' nameplates were based on the typography of their source material rather than just an all-encompassing generic font. It'd be a fun way to inject some personality into the UI that's kinda sorely needed imo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If we're talking aesthetics/vibes for the next game, something that I think would be cool is if they pulled a Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when it comes to the character select screen.

The characters' nameplates were based on the typography of their source material rather than just an all-encompassing generic font. It'd be a fun way to inject some personality into the UI that's kinda sorely needed imo.

At the very least, even if that wasn't practical for the character select screen, seeing it for results and vs records would be at least something.

 

[Perkilator]

If we're talking aesthetics/vibes for the next game, something that I think would be cool is if they pulled a Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when it comes to the character select screen.

The characters' nameplates were based on the typography of their source material rather than just an all-encompassing generic font. It'd be a fun way to inject some personality into the UI that's kinda sorely needed imo.

At the very least, even if that wasn't practical for the character select screen, seeing it for results and vs records would be at least something.

Or maybe even at the bottom of your character's damage HUD.

Speaking of, you know how if you used a nickname during gameplay, it would replace the character's name on the damage HUD? Maybe for the next game, you could have the character's name alongside any nicknames you used? Escpecially if the characters use MvC1-esque stylized logos.

 

[BrawlX10]

A comic book art-style like Jump Ultimate Stars would be cool, like in each characters classic mode we could have a intro like this:

For the character select maybe something like Shrek Superslam, were we see the characters models in the CSS.

For event modes something like Captain Toad Treasure Tracker would be cool:

Just random ideas.

 

[smashkirby]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

I'm getting chills seeing it again while playing.

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. While it wasn’t perfect, SSE was the only mode Smash has ever had that actually let the characters show off their personalities and interact. That’s something WoL just didn’t really do. I also enjoyed the platforming stages of SSE. It felt more like you’re actually part of a world.

I rewatched the SSE cutscenes just last week and I have to say, between that and actually replaying through Subspace late last year? It reminded me of the same thing.

I remember last year or so, we all had a discussion on here about Smash not taking FULL advantage of its crossover nature, and watching these cutscenes again will ALWAYS reaffirm the notion to me that... no, it's not. Say what you will about Subspace's platforming and even its unusually "dark epic" of a story, but at least these characters were doing something OTHER than existing in the same game engine and beating each other up.

Ngl, it's part of why I'm a bit iffy on whether or not I'd be cool with EiH not happening again/not happening again for a LONG time. If by some miracle, we do get a follow-up to what Subspace gave us, I'd like to see the ENTIRE Smash Bros. cast interact with one another in an SSE-follow-up before we really get into cutting the roster down.

Side note, but while I also wish the various Nintendo worlds were more prominently featured in Subspace, I'm cool with the relatively generic areas we got. Mainly because I can't help but wonder how Sakurai would have depicted such different worlds being mish-mashed into one planet...

Just one of the reasons Melee-Brawl was Smash's golden age to me. Still love Smash, but the atmosphere just isn't there anymore.

Honestly, I stand by the notion that while Bandai Namco's take on Smash isn't BAD by any means, there's absolutely an... "aesthetic" Smash Bros. lost after Brawl. Heck, the vibe I'm describing? I'd say that even Brawl sort of did away with it and Melee was the final time it was a thing.

It might just be me, but some of you on here have been saying that there's a 'vibe' Smash Bros. lost over the years... this is just a guess on my part, but do you all think it might be that Smash Bros. has been downplaying the 'toys-to-life' aspect of the series? Like, I don't mean amiibo, but after Brawl... I don't know, it feels like the Trophies have been downplayed as an aspect of Smash since Smash 4.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It might just be me, but some of you on here have been saying that there's a 'vibe' Smash Bros. lost over the years... this is just a guess on my part, but do you all think it might be that Smash Bros. has been downplaying the 'toys-to-life' aspect of the series? Like, I don't mean amiibo, but after Brawl... I don't know, it feels like the Trophies have been downplayed as an aspect of Smash since Smash 4.

No, you're correct. Smash 4 is when Smash just became a typical fighting game in terms of vibes which is fine but it feels like Smash lost its soul.

The Sora trailer is the one exception.

 

[Megadoomer]

I don't know if Sora was discussed or not, but do you think he might return for the next Smash Bros?

The only issue I see is that Sora was developed by Square Enix and Disney. It might cause complications should discussions happen again.

Though, the same issue could be applied to Geno as explained before.

I think he stands a pretty good chance of coming back. With him being the last character (and the Smash Ballot winner), I'd like to think that they planned ahead for the next game. Disney was apparently easy to work with, with Tetsuya Nomura being the picky one. The reaction to Sora's inclusion in Smash seemed to get rid of any misgivings that Nomura had, so it seems like there would be less barriers going forward. (given his comments about not wanting a Smash appearance to clash with Kingdom Hearts lore, I feel like Nomura had a hand in why Kirby doesn't actually use a Keyblade when he copies Sora)

 

[Thegameandwatch]

(I feel like Nomura had a hand in why Kirby doesn't actually use a Keyblade when he copies Sora)

Especially since there are other weapons in Smash that can only be used by that specific character and Kirby can use it just fine.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Kirby's heart is not pure enough to wield the keyblade.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I still prefer the cartoony visuals of Smash 4 and Ultimate.

Brawl felt like a big epic crossover where the heroes unite to beat the baddie. But it lost some of the characters' identities in the process.

Smash 4 and Ultimate lacks that core unifying strength but I think it lets the individual aspects of the characters shine more. Like Mario can finally be himself. Pikachu can be a bright and cartoony character he always was.

Smash really needs that color. Because so many of these franchises need that color.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I still prefer the cartoony visuals of Smash 4 and Ultimate.

Brawl felt like a big epic crossover where the heroes unite to beat the baddie. But it lost some of the characters' identities in the process.

Smash 4 and Ultimate lacks that core unifying strength but I think it lets the individual aspects of the characters shine more. Like Mario can finally be himself. Pikachu can be a bright and cartoony character he always was.

Smash really needs that color. Because so many of these franchises need that color.

I wouldn't say that a gritty artstyle holds characters back. Sure, Smash 4 was bright and cartoony, but Smash 4 Mario still retained a lot of the serious mannerisms from Brawl. It wasn't even till Ultimate that he was allowed to smile.

Kirby and Dedede had no issue being their bubbly/goofy selves in Brawl despite its grit. If a character isn't themself in Smash, that's usually the fault of the direction they took the character in and not surrounding circumstances like the art style.

 

[Gengar84]

I will say I strongly disliked Smash 4 Ganondorf. That’s probably my least favorite version of the character ever aesthetically. Thankfully they more than made up for that with Ultimate. Ultimate Ganondorf is my favorite version.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I will say I strongly disliked Smash 4 Ganondorf. That’s probably my least favorite version of the character ever aesthetically. Thankfully they more than made up for that with Ultimate. Ultimate Ganondorf is my favorite version.

Probably the Smash character with the biggest disparity between their render and actual in-game model, lol.

 

[Ivander]

For the character select maybe something like Shrek Superslam, were we see the characters models in the CSS.
View attachment 399745

So Super Smash Bros. 64.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Random unrelated thought about the Nintendo Music app since I'm the guy who posts about it in here, but last week we got an NES game and this week we got an SNES game and there are four updates until the Switch 2 Direct in April (the 10th, 17th, 24th, and 31st). It's not a pattern yet obviously so it might not mean anything (plus it doesn't exactly fit right as I'll sorta mention down below lmao), but I think it'd be cool/funny if it was like:

February 24th: Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES)
March 3rd: Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)
March 10th: N64
March 17th: Gamecube
March 24th: Wii
March 31st: This doesn't exactly fit, but Wii U game ported to Switch like 3D World or Tropical Freeze so both consoles get an addition to their Search directory

And then the Switch 2 Direct on April 2nd.




Anywho, to make this post actually Smash related/related to current topic, I much prefer Smash with a bright aesthetic, but I do feel like a different sort of visual identity will happen, partially because Ultimate was built off of Smash 4's backbone and is a bit of an odd case, and partially because it's a really easy way to make the next game FEEL different, alongside obviously the new content like I'm hoping they'll do with making the stage list primarily new stages and HOPING they'll do with like remixing all of the victory themes to make them all consistent.