Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

So, I know themes for each smash iteration is something most don't usually focus on. If the next smash title is announced, what potential theme could be present?

The theme of the next game should be “starting over.” Reworking old movesets, modernizing old content, catching up on what Smashed missed out on during the Switch era, etc.

 

[Gengar84]

The theme of the next game should be “starting over.” Reworking old movesets, modernizing old content, catching up on what Smashed missed out on during the Switch era, etc.

I think that depends on what starting over entails. You wouldn’t want to alienate fans of how Smash currently plays by making changes that are too drastic. A lot of the changes they’ve already made to characters actually made me enjoy playing them less. I had more fun with Ganondorf, Bowser, Snake, Wolf, and Zelda/Sheik before the changes for example. Worst case scenario is they overhaul a ton of characters I love playing to make them less fun to me and have to Thanos snap the rest of the roster as a result.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think that depends on what starting over entails. You wouldn’t want to alienate fans of how Smash currently plays by making changes that are too drastic. A lot of the changes they’ve already made to characters actually made me enjoy playing them less. I had more fun with Ganondorf, Bowser, Snake, Wolf, and Zelda/Sheik before the changes for example. Worst case scenario is they overhaul a ton of characters I love playing to make them less fun to me and have to Thanos snap the rest of the roster as a result.

Ganondorf huh? I think you might have a small problem with him next installment if you didn't enjoy the version in Ultimate To me, he was the most fun in Melee, where it was just cool to have him and he was a sort of functional character. Bowser being more functional now also works. And Brawl Wolf was actually quite messy, he was clearly rushed. Ultimate's version of Wolf is actually one of the better designed characters.

Actually, this makes me think, which characters do people want and expect to change the most ?

 

[DarthEnderX]

???: ???

Smash 6: Tabuu returns having absorbed the power released when Galeem and Darkhon were destroyed.
Theme:...I dunno.

The big, and I mean HUGE difference with Ultimate Deluxe is that... Smash Bros isn't Mario Kart.

But it could be.

It's simply down to dev time. The more time is spent on retooling veterans the less time that can be spent on newcomers

Unless you hire more devs. Which Nintendo can afford to do. Especially for Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

Actually, this makes me think, which characters do people want and expect to change the most ?

The changes I’d like to see:

• Donkey King
• Samus
• Ganondorf
• Wario
• Ike
• Sonic
• Lucario
• Little Mac
• Min Min
• As for Steve and Kazuya, I expect they’ll at least get hit with the nerf hammer the same way other infamously overpowered characters were

 

[Gengar84]

Ganondorf huh? I think you might have a small problem with him next installment if you didn't enjoy the version in Ultimate To me, he was the most fun in Melee, where it was just cool to have him and he was a sort of functional character. Bowser being more functional now also works. And Brawl Wolf was actually quite messy, he was clearly rushed. Ultimate's version of Wolf is actually one of the better designed characters.

Actually, this makes me think, which characters do people want and expect to change the most ?

I still enjoy Ganondorf in Ultimate too (he’s my main) but I found him a lot more fun to play in Melee. I miss the range of Wolf’s Brawl forward smash and recovery. I know he’s better competitively on a high level now but I enjoyed playing him more before. I also miss Snake’s Brawl down smash and mortar slide. I’ve already mentioned why I liked Melee Bowser more (generally he was bigger and his moves were more brutal and imposing). I don’t really care much about competitive viability at a high level.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The changes I’d like to see:

• Donkey King
• Samus
• Ganondorf
• Wario
• Ike
• Sonic
• Lucario
• Little Mac
• Min Min
• As for Steve and Kazuya, I expect they’ll at least get hit with the nerf hammer the same way other infamously overpowered characters were

Good choices overall.

I think I'll add to this list; Mewtwo, Zelda, Lucina and Chrom (sharing a new move set now) and Kirby. Maybe Mario too but he probably won't get too drastic changes.

But yeah, I agree with all of these!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well I liked it... I though spirits and WoL was cool and I think Classic mode was in its best version in Ult, being like an Arcade mode with specific routes.

I agree. I think WoL is much better than SSE. And I loved the bespoke Classic modes.

Yeah, especially if Nintendo wants to get a larger audience for the Switch 2. So many streamers will get a fighting game, play through the story mode and maybe play it online for a bit, but then forget about it in a month. Adding a robust Campaign, keeping the Ultimate formula for Classic, and having a variety of side modes would do wonders for player retention and exposure.

...no it wouldn't.

SF6 has, like, one of the most robust single player modes a fighting game has ever had. And no streamer was still playing it after about a month.

 

[Gengar84]

I agree. I think WoL is much better than SSE. And I loved the bespoke Classic modes.

...no it wouldn't.

SF6 has, like, one of the most robust single player modes a fighting game has ever had. And no streamer was still playing it after about a month.

The Classic mode is actually really good in Ultimate but I’m just not a big fan of WoL. There were cool moments and I didn’t absolutely hate my time playing it but I did find the whole experience to be underwhelming. Part of my love for SSE was that it was local co-op and I could play through the game with my brother. WoL was single player so that took a lot of the fun out from the start. I also miss the characters actually interacting with each other through the story even if it was very basic. WoL just felt like a bunch of Event matches with a board. Not the worst experience ever but it hardly made up for SSE for me.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I would like the next Smash to have proper online functions.

Most of the people i used to play with have moved away so we can't really get together to play games locally anymore, it would be nice.

 

[Gengar84]

Other than a large roster and a SSE style story mode, my most wanted feature for the next Smash is a fully realized Stage Builder with a ton of extra features and the ability to make the stages look anywhere close to an official stage rather than layered cardboard cutouts. Not sure how that would be possible but it’s what I’d like to see.

 

[Garteam]

“We reworked Mario and Ganondorf!” and “The Champions, Alear, and Noah are playable!” are good ways to sell the next Smash to hardcore fans of modern Nintendo.

The problem is I don’t know how much of a sales pitch that is to people outside that demographic.

 

[Noipoi]

“We reworked Mario and Ganondorf!” and “The Champions, Alear, and Noah are playable!” are good ways to sell the next Smash to hardcore fans of modern Nintendo.

The problem is I don’t know how much of a sales pitch that is to people outside that demographic.

That’s what Master Chief, Shadow, and Sans Undertale are for

 

[Dukefire]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

I'm getting chills seeing it again while playing.

 

[smashkirby]

I feel like Ashley is also helped by the fact that there have been three WarioWare games since Ultimate's project plan was drafted (Gold, Get It Together, and Move It) and Get It Together at least did pretty well for itself.

I could definitely see Ashley joining alongside a stage based on Wario's game (the one in-game that all the characters get trapped in), since I feel like Caresaway Island would kinda crib on the island aesthetic I feel like Animal Crossing is definitely going to utilize for a New Horizon's stage of some kind.

Alright, I'll ask.....what do you think about Ashley's chance to join as a fighter rather then being an Assist Trophy twice so far?
View attachment 399673

Personally, I don't think WarioWare's Switch performance is really going to act as an incentive to add another character. It wouldn't be a deterrent either, if the conversation arises through different means (Ashley's popularity, moveset potential, etc) but one million units is arguably bog standard for a first party Nintendo title on the Switch. It's good by WW standards, but clearly not impressive enough to be the focus of any of those sales reports of series growth like Kirby, Metroid, Pikmin and Xenoblade had.

I think the point about playing as the characters is solid enough though. That does open things up a bit more, since none of them typically "do" much otherwise. Jimmy T had that skiing game in Game & Wario, Ashley had her own game there as well (not unlike her playstyle in Get It Together, actually). But Get It Together helped continue the trend of making Wario's friends (?) a bit more of a focal point than before. Ever since WarioWare Gold I feel like the ensemble has been given more focus, but to Ashley's potential detriment she isn't treated any more special than the others.

I guess I'm pretty late to the Ashley discussion and even then, I far-and-away have Mona as my most-wanted Wario newcomer after the Big Wah himself, so I don't have THAT much skin in the game regarding whether Ashley gets in or not, but it does feel like Ultimate not adding her made me think that perhaps Sakurai thinks that Wario just isn't really hurting for a newcomer at the moment?

The reason I sort of did think she might have been happening for Ultimate in particular? Between Game & Wario + the Badge Arcade + Nintendo's overall focus on her throughout the early-to-mid-2010's, it seemed like Nintendo had some sort of plan for her, but when I look back on that? I start to remember that most of those appearances weren't even ACTUAL games, they were mostly glorified cameos.

And in regards to Louie G. mentioning how ever since WW Gold brought the entire Ware cast back into proper focus, Ashley hasn't exactly been given any sort of 'preferential treatment' and all, I feel like now might be a good time to mention that while Mona also hasn't been given sort of 'special treatment' over the whole cast either, she HAS been more likely to be depicted alongside Wario in promo material, ESPECIALLY in Get It Together.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ike

What changes does Ike need? He's always been pretty functional.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

I'm getting chills seeing it again while playing.

I remember almost missing the school bus on numerous mornings because I was like "come on, one more level"

Good times

 

[Laniv]

... what do you mean Breath of the Wild and the Switch are both eight years old today

 

[Ivander]

“We reworked Mario and Ganondorf!” and “The Champions, Alear, and Noah are playable!” are good ways to sell the next Smash to hardcore fans of modern Nintendo.

Just for clarification, are we talking the BotW Champions or the TotK Champions/Sages?

Though for once, I think people wouldn't complain much about Alear simply because everybody would be in a mixture between ecstatic, confuzzled and "raging about BotW/ToTK shilling" with all the Champions getting in.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I really just want to see characters in Smash actually interact outside of gameplay again. Dialogue or not.

Every interaction from Mario and Pit and Link and Yoshi teaming up before regrouping with Kirby, Samus and Pikachu forming a bond after the former rescued the latter from the Subapace Army's labs, Lucas latching onto Pokemon Trainer as an older brother figure after he helped save him and Ness was turned into a Trophy by Wario, Meta Knight's badass team-up with Marth and Ike, Olimar's sheer terror at Captain Falcon's dragging him and the Pikmin into danger above his paygrade despite the latter captain clearly still respecting him, King Dedede, Luigi and Ness becoming friends after it turns out he was actually trying to save them, Dedede's savage disrespect towards Bowser, etc,

Oh, and then there's glorious scenes like this:

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really just want to see characters in Smash actually interact outside of gameplay again. Dialogue or not.

Every interaction from Mario and Pit and Link and Yoshi teaming up before regrouping with Kirby, Samus and Pikachu forming a bond after the former rescued the latter from the Subapace Army's labs, Lucas latching onto Pokemon Trainer as an older brother figure after he helped save him and Ness was turned into a Trophy by Wario, Meta Knight's badass team-up with Marth and Ike, Olimar's sheer terror at Captain Falcon's dragging him and the Pikmin into danger above his paygrade despite the latter captain clearly still respecting him, King Dedede, Luigi and Ness becoming friends after it turns out he was actually trying to save them, Dedede's savage disrespect towards Bowser, etc,

Oh, and then there's glorious scenes like this:

SSE Diddy is a gift. He must be protected at all costs.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. While it wasn’t perfect, SSE was the only mode Smash has ever had that actually let the characters show off their personalities and interact. That’s something WoL just didn’t really do. I also enjoyed the platforming stages of SSE. It felt more like you’re actually part of a world.

 

[fogbadge]

... what do you mean Breath of the Wild and the Switch are both eight years old today

wait till all the movies from your childhood start turning 30

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

wait till all the movies from your childhood start turning 30

Real footage of me when the TTYD remake came out and I realized it was 20 years old:

 

[Wonder Smash]

If Sakurai would build Crash Bandicoot's look, he could either take his recent outing from It's about Time or somewhat create a composite appearance from his titles over the years. Though, titles like Wrath of Cortex is........more like rewritten since Crash Bandicoot It's about Time gave a nod to the other titles.

Of course, they cannot have Crash without the Crash Dance.

I often wondered how can they add Crash Dance in the game somehow. Maybe as a taunt? Idle animation? Win pose?

 

[Noipoi]

I often wondered how can they add Crash Dance in the game somehow. Maybe as a taunt? Idle animation? Win pose?

Definitely a victory animation

 

[BrawlX10]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

Honestly i think Brawl has just the best atmosphere and music in the series in general, not just SSE. (With Melee a close second).
Melee is just such an eerie-looking game, like i swear the word "eerie" perfectly describes Melee, it feels like there's something not right with Melee.

Brawl is just vives, man. Love that late 2000s edgy feel.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm of the opinion that there has to be a way to bring the strengths of SSE (character interaction, epic scale) without its notable weaknesses (the platforming, the lack of Nintendo crossover with enemies/settings). The former are talked up far more than the latter and for good reason as many of the characters were not ideal for platforming (or at the very least didn't have stage design that suited them) and the insistence in original foes on top of quasi-realistic settings meant the "across the Nintendo universe" sense was often lost. Harsh as it is, the cutscenes and boss battles of SSE wrote a check that much of the actual gameplay couldn't cash, hence why the former two are subject to much more nostalgia than the moments of awkwardly jumping on generic platforms and fighting eyeball monsters in a bland forest area are.

Platform sections designed around specific characters with more latitude/choice for the actual character battles and actually utilizing Nintendo settings/enemies for most of the mode would go a long way towards correcting many of the issues of Subspace Emissary though whether the company/Sakurai would see that as worthwhile is another matter entirely.

 

[HyperSomari64]

No, everyone but Captain Falcon and Fox.

The Gun-Wielding Racer that prefers punches and kicks and the Alien Anthro Scrimblo. Such an iconic duo

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Brawl is just vives, man. Love that late 2000s edgy feel.

Feel that, I remember being drawn to the coverart on the shelf in gamestop, with all the characters looking right into the camera. Nothing like waking up on a Saturday morning and getting your ears blown out by the startup noise on the Wii select screen.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

I'm getting chills seeing it again while playing.

The domino effect from me playing this to having Kingdom hearts and Super robot wars as some of my favorite games.

I love crossover stories

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Honestly i think Brawl has just the best atmosphere and music in the series in general, not just SSE. (With Melee a close second).
Melee is just such an eerie-looking game, like i swear the word "eerie" perfectly describes Melee, it feels like there's something not right with Melee.

Just one of the reasons Melee-Brawl was Smash's golden age to me. Still love Smash, but the atmosphere just isn't there anymore.

 

[Gengar84]

Just one of the reasons Melee-Brawl was Smash's golden age to me. Still love Smash, but the atmosphere just isn't there anymore.

In terms of modes, I agree that Melee-Brawl was my favorite era. For stage design, it would be 64-Melee and for graphical style, I’d say it’s Ultimate overall, though some characters vary by game. Melee had my favorite Link and Samus and Brawl had my favorite Zelda but on the whole, I like Ultimate’s style.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

There’s a great video on the topic of the eeriness of Melee, check it out if the topic interests you.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ultimate is really the only game where the Modes felt underwhelming. No Target Test of some sort is just plain "ooooooof". I don't mind other lack of stuff(like Smash Run), but that's a staple mode at that point. Sure, we got Race to the Finish back in a way that felt closer to Smash 64's unique style(with a lot more crazy obstacles and a single exit), but it's still not the same.

Everything else is not too bad, though I do agree Adventure Mode is a bit eh. My main issue is that they couldn't have found a way to make Master Hand playable in other modes(would requiring finishing Adventure Mode first as an unlock, mayhaps?) under the same rules. He was really fun to use (again). His moveset being closer to how it was in Smash 64(normal controls) was a really good move too.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I can safely say that Subspace Emissary has a lasting impression for Smash Bros. The atmosphere, story and the characters make you feel you are watching a big movie play out. You are assisting them like the figure to advance the story.

I'm getting chills seeing it again while playing.

Something delightfully ironic about someone here posting the Brawl cutscenes to remember Subspace.

From our eyes, this action is how we reminisce about them, celebrate them, and keep the memory of this awesome mode alive.
But in the eyes of Sakurai, this exact action is a reason for them to never attempt story cutscenes ever again.

I think the disparity there between what the devs think the player wants vs how the players actually act is massive.

 

[Kirbeh]

The theme of the next game should be “starting over.” Reworking old movesets, modernizing old content, catching up on what Smashed missed out on during the Switch era, etc.

I'm said my piece of on a full reset (I'd be perfectly fine with it,) but I think what you want would be better described as "renewal" rather than starting over.

And while part of me would like see what the fanbase imploding looks like if they started from 0 again, I think a renewal of sorts is the better direction for a new title.

Keep the roster big, probably not Ultimate big, but pretty close.

Renew as much of the roster as possible. Not complete overhauls but changes beyond the expected balance adjustments. Basically a handful of moveset changes per character.

Bring back updated versions of old modes and other content that got left behind over the years. Make the old feel new again. Then on top of that you get the actual new content as well.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Melee is just such an eerie-looking game, like i swear the word "eerie" perfectly describes Melee, it feels like there's something not right with Melee.

View attachment 399732View attachment 399733

Also the character designs which are basically in between 64 and GameCube era or even earlier because it was made before games like Mario Sunshine.

There are also characters whose designs only appear in Melee such as the Starfox characters or at least in 3D.

 

[BrawlX10]

Just one of the reasons Melee-Brawl was Smash's golden age to me. Still love Smash, but the atmosphere just isn't there anymore.

Yeah, honestly i'd add 64 too. While 64 is simple and more cheerful than Melee/Brawl, i think 64 still has some of the creeepiness/eerieness.
I really hope they go back to the atmopshere of the 64-Brawl days, but i have a feeling they probably won't.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm said my piece of on a full reset (I'd be perfectly fine with it,) but I think what you want would be better described as "renewal" rather than starting over.

And while part of me would like see what the fanbase imploding looks like if they started from 0 again, I think a renewal of sorts is the better direction for a new title.

Keep the roster big, probably not Ultimate big, but pretty close.

Renew as much of the roster as possible. Not complete overhauls but changes beyond the expected balance adjustments. Basically a handful of moveset changes per character.

Bring back updated versions of old modes and other content that got left behind over the years. Make the old feel new again. Then on top of that you get the actual new content as well.

You know what? Maybe “renewal of existing ideas” is a better term to describe what I want the next Smash to be.