Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Unfortunately, we know the director of the series is not interested in crossovers of any kind.

We live in a timeline where Sora von Disney is more likely to come back than us seeing any Yakuza character in Smash, let alone the one who was not allowed to show up in fighting games because "he doesn't hit women"

Smash speculation really is a ****ing wild ride, huh?

Here’s Kiryu beating up a woman in a crossover game.

Fighting games like Tekken feature more realistic violence than a game like Project X Zone or Smash Bros., that may be a factor as to why him being in PXZ2 was ok.

It was the producer, and my take from the interview was more so that they are not interested in perusing crossovers themselves, but if the right offer comes to them it will be considered. He did not outright turn down the idea of future crossovers. https://www.polygon.com/24211470/yakuza-producer-kiryu-guest-character-tekken-street-fighter

 

[PlasmaDam]

I feel like people vastly exaggerate how many characters need a moveset overhaul

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Decided to make a tier list based on how much I think each veteran would/should be a priority to come back in the next game.View attachment 399750

I think it’s fine but there is too much characters in the red tier. Some could be in the high priority tier such as Mewtwo who has an inconsistent track record.

Sheik should be in the unsure tier since she has been in the series since Melee despite being seen as a low priority tier. Not sure why Pokemon Trainer is that low?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I did admit that it’s probably my ignorance speaking since I don’t have a ton of experience with the series. I bought Like a Dragon and I’m a couple hours in but that’s the extent of it. That’s just the first impression I got. It reminded me a bit of something like you’d see in Grand Theft Auto. I’m not trying to gatekeep or anything and I think they could easily make it work. I just felt that it isn’t the type of thing Smash has historically gone with.

I mean, they've also make a ****ing peripheral into not just a fully realized fighter but one of the most tragic characters in Nintendo history.

I have no doubts they can make anything work.

 

[PlasmaDam]

This might be an insane take but I think Sonic moveset aside from having 2 spindashs is pretty solid.Homing attack and spindash are some of sonic Defining moves and while I think Up B is a little boring Springs are some of Sonic most iconic feature.Also I really like Sonic down throw where he extends his spikes like a launchpad its a really neat concept

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This might be an insane take but I think Sonic moveset aside from having 2 spindashs is pretty solid.Homing attack and spindash are some of sonic Defining moves and while I think Up B is a little boring Springs are some of Sonic most iconic feature.Also I really like Sonic down throw where he extends his spikes like a launchpad its a really neat concept

Being fair, a lot of Sonic's toxicity comes from his ludicrous speed but most notably from Spin Dash so I can more or less agree.

 

[PlasmaDam]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

 

[Gengar84]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

K. Rool’s moveset is pretty much everything I could have wanted. There’s a few minor adjustments I would have made like giving him an in-game ability instead of a counter and making the blunderbuss have a few variant attacks but, on the whole, I’m really happy with it.

 

[ninjahmos]

I feel like people vastly exaggerate how many characters need a moveset overhaul

Yeah…I mean, there are some characters who may need it, whether it's in terms of their moveset or characterization, but most characters are actually fine as they are.

 

[Gengar84]

The only characters I’d like to see overhauled are Ganondorf, Sonic, and Lucario. I don’t really have an issue with any of the others. Samus would be cool to get a more modern Dread inspired moveset but I’m perfectly content with her Super Metroid set too.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Yeah…I mean, there are some characters who may need it, whether it's in terms of their moveset or characterization, but most characters are actually fine as they are.

Yeah, I want Sonic to have some moveset changes, especially with some special moves, but for the most part, he is fine to me.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like people vastly exaggerate how many characters need a moveset overhaul

I think most people who want a Mario moveset overhaul don't get that references to a character's source games don't have to be as unsubtle as

"The next change I would make is Mario's down smash, which is just him doing a breakdance and kicking on each side. I've changed this to him spawning two Mushrooms on both sides on him while maybe Mario does a pose with his arms crossed or something like that."

 

[PersonAngelo53]

With how much "atention" Suikoden is getting lately with an anime and mobile game, i think it's possible we might get a Mii Costume, AT or collectible from it.

I also think Crono is a slept on character, i think he would make a good retro rep.

Suikoden is getting an anime? What?

 

[Kirbeh]

My favorite GG characters are Eddie and Axel. I don’t think either one has any chance for Smash but Sol would be fun too.

Wait, like, Eddie specifically? Not Zato-1?

 

[Gengar84]

I think most people who want a Mario moveset overhaul don't get that references to a character's source games don't have to be as unsubtle as

"The next change I would make is Mario's down smash, which is just him doing a breakdance and kicking on each side. I've changed this to him spawning two Mushrooms on both sides on him while maybe Mario does a pose with his arms crossed or something like that."

I think references are great but I’d lean towards moves that more generally represent the character as a whole rather than something from one specific game they’re in. That’s why I’m not a huge fan of F.L.U.D.D. or removing Link’s hookshot tether grab. I do actually like the breakdance down smash though.

Wait, like, Eddie specifically? Not Zato-1?

This guy:

I’m not overly familiar with Guilty Gear lore. I only played a bit of a few games so maybe I got the name wrong. I just think he’s cool and he was fun to play.

 

[Laniv]

I feel like people vastly exaggerate how many characters need a moveset overhaul

It's really just Ganondorf, Sonic, and Little Mac

And even for Sonic it's just a matter of him not needing two spin dashes

(There's also a lot of aesthetic changes people want for him but that's not strictly moveset-related)

 

[MBRedboy31]

I think references are great but I’d lean towards moves that more generally represent the character as a whole rather than something from one specific game they’re in. That’s why I’m not a huge fan of F.L.U.D.D. or removing Link’s hookshot tether grab. I do actually like the breakdance down smash though.


This guy:

View attachment 399758

I’m not overly familiar with Guilty Gear lore. I only played a bit of a few games so maybe I got the name wrong.

IIRC Eddie is the shadowy guy behind him, while you play as Zato-1 (the guy with the sunglasses.) He can summon Eddie to dish out extra attacks and apply additional pressure.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

You know, if Sonic had some revamping, I would not mind if he had some moves changes from Sonic Frontiers in his moveset.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel like people vastly exaggerate how many characters need a moveset overhaul

It's really just Ganondorf who should have one.

A lot of other people who "need" moveset overhauls really just need a few changes, if even that rather than just some rebalancing with buffs and nerfs.

 

[Gengar84]

IIRC Eddie is the shadowy guy behind him, while you play as Zato-1 (the guy with the sunglasses.) He can summon Eddie to dish out extra attacks and apply additional pressure.

Oh I see. I would have assumed it was the other way around since Eddie is a more normal sounding name for a person while Zato-1 would have made sense for a shadow creature. I know nothing about his lore, I just enjoyed playing him.

Two other fighting game characters I think look awesome but no nothing about are Hakumen and Sunsano-o from Blazblue. I’m guessing Blazblue in general has very little chance and if it ever got a character, it would be Ragna.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I do actually like the breakdance down smash though.

Me too, I was just trying to reference (heh heh heh) that video. If you want references, well, it's a mix between his SM64 sweep and his DDR Mario Mix pose.

Oh I see. I would have assumed it was the other way around since Eddie is a more normal sounding name for a person while Zato-1 would have made sense for a shadow creature. I know nothing about his lore, I just enjoyed playing him.

He was renamed "Eddie" in Guilty Gear XX because Zato's VA died during Guilty Gear X's production. So they had Zato die too and made it so Eddie was possessing his body during the events of XX.

 

[BrawlX10]

We live in a timeline where Sora von Disney is more likely to come back than us seeing any Yakuza character in Smash, let alone the one who was not allowed to show up in fighting games because "he doesn't hit women"

That's uronically sexist, like does this dude think Mai or Chun-li can't defend themselves? What a clown, tbh. I feel bad for Yakuza fans.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That's uronically sexist, like does this dude think Mai or Chun-li can't defend themselves? What a clown, tbh. I feel bad for Yakuza fans.

I think it's more of the "women must be treated with the utmost respect" viewpoint, which is patriarchal in nature, but not sexist.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

This is probably just my ignorance speaking since my only experience with Yakuza is the opening hours of Like a Dragon but I’ve always felt the series is a bit too grounded in the real world to fit naturally into a game like Smash. I know there’s all kinds of over the top humor but the people and locations are very realistic and modern. To me, it’s almost like getting a Grand Theft Auto character in Smash. Not that I’m opposed at all, it would just feel a bit out of place to me. That could be part of the appeal though.

In the newest game the main character becomes the captain of a pirate crew, he can create shadow clones of himself and play a violin to summon sharks from the ground to attack other pirates.

 

[Gengar84]

In the newest game the main character becomes the captain of a pirate crew, he can create shadow clones of himself and play a violin to summon sharks from the ground to attack other pirates.

I knew about the pirate part but not the shadow clones or shark summoning. That actually sounds really cool and a great basis for a Smash moveset. I assumed everything in the game would be at least feasible for someone in real life to do even if it’s very silly. In that case, I take back my statement. I was right that I just didn’t know enough about the series and it was just a misguided first impression.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm also fairly certain he's matrix dodged a shot from a bazooka, which is just cool.

 

[BrawlX10]

I think it's more of the "women must be treated with the utmost respect" viewpoint, which is patriarchal in nature, but not sexist.

Personally i think it's sexist. Sorry, It's just my stance.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I knew about the pirate part but not the shadow clones or shark summoning. That actually sounds really cool and a great basis for a Smash moveset. I assumed everything in the game would be at least feasible for someone in real life to do even if it’s very silly. In that case, I take back my statement. I was right that I just didn’t know enough about the series and it was just a misguided first impression.

These characters have done many crazy inhumane feats. Majima has been able to summon shadow clones since Yakuza 5, it is never commented on or explained.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Decided to make a tier list based on how much I think each veteran would/should be a priority to come back in the next game

Palutena and Falco two tiers above Little Mac is gonna need some explanation I think. All three of their franchises are in the same position right now, I seriously doubt they'd add two characters to SF and KI before adding Mac.

Likewise, I feel like the retros are too far apart; most are in very similar positions too.

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

Jigglypuff has a perfect moveset befitting of the flawless specimen that she is.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I agree that despite seeing moveset overhauls as my main want for the next game, people tend to make rash claims about it that I think are a bit silly.

I remember hearing in a Scott the Woz video and in a few other places that every veteran could get an entirely new moveset aside from base necessities like Mario and fireball and stuff, and just like, no? I think Mario should have a couple more up to date specials like Cappy and a few normals changed to make room for Mario staples like ground pound, but he's far from needing every single move in his kit overhauled.

And like, every veteran? Most characters from Smash 4 onwards and even a lot of Brawl's cast are pretty solid imo, even if sometimes a bit more than the standard touch up would be preferable. Even taking an early example, what does Marth need changed?

He's pretty perfect as a tipper based swordsman. It's not that he couldn't be expanded on, but I think the desire to escape Smash Ultimate's focus on legacy content has created a sort of stigma around porting over content without many changes amongst parts of the community, which naturally creates a rift amidst the crowd of Ultimate Deluxe wanters, but we don't need to get into that again. I think next game should focus on giving vets changes over adding new characters, but that doesn't mean every character needs to be torn down to their foundations and brought up again. That would just be wasteful of Ultimate's resources imo.

 

[Gengar84]

A little off topic but it also bugs me that WWE games don’t let you have intergender matches anymore. Pretty much every fighting game does and wrestling isn’t real anyways. Older wrestling games like No Mercy on the N64 let you. It just makes creating matches between created fighting game characters a hassle.

I’m not sure how to tie that into Smash so I’ll ask a question about my most wanted female character, Jinx. Riot and Fortiche are famous for their music videos and getting established artists like Imagine Dragons and Linkin Park to write songs specifically for their shows or cinematic game trailers. I imagine the licensing for those would be pretty hard even if they were made specifically for their game and show. I wonder how Smash would handle the music assuming Jinx made it in.

 

[NotGenerico]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

 

[BrawlX10]

These characters have done many crazy inhumane feats. Majima has been able to summon shadow clones since Yakuza 5, it is never commented on or explained.View attachment 399761

I think Goro would be the best Yakuza rep, but i'm not sure if they'll include him bc he's not the MC.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Even taking an early example, what does Marth need changed?

Well he needs to be tweaked a little bit so he isn't overshadowed by his own Echo again. Just a little, because as you said, his moveset is fine otherwise.

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

Oh good, I was hoping Activision and Id being under MS would mean the remakes kept Doomguy.

 

[Ivander]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

We already have some Tony Hawk representation in Smash Bros.

 

[PlasmaDam]

I'm pretty sure the can't hit a woman thing only applies to kiryu I think majima and ichiban can get in just fine

 

[ninjahmos]

I've said this many times before, and they probably won't do it, but I still think Light Speed Dash would make a better Side B for Sonic.

 

[BrawlX10]

I agree that despite seeing moveset overhauls as my main want for the next game, people tend to make rash claims about it that I think are a bit silly.

I remember hearing in a Scott the Woz video and in a few other places that every veteran could get an entirely new moveset aside from base necessities like Mario and fireball and stuff, and just like, no? I think Mario should have a couple more up to date specials like Cappy and a few normals changed to make room for Mario staples like ground pound, but he's far from needing every single move in his kit overhauled.

And like, every veteran? Most characters from Smash 4 onwards and even a lot of Brawl's cast are pretty solid imo, even if sometimes a bit more than the standard touch up would be preferable. Even taking an early example, what does Marth need changed?

He's pretty perfect as a tipper based swordsman. It's not that he couldn't be expanded on, but I think the desire to escape Smash Ultimate's focus on legacy content has created a sort of stigma around porting over content without many changes amongst parts of the community, which naturally creates a rift amidst the crowd of Ultimate Deluxe wanters, but we don't need to get into that again. I think next game should focus on giving vets changes over adding new characters, but that doesn't mean every character needs to be torn down to their foundations and brought up again. That would just be wasteful of Ultimate's resources imo.

I think veterans shouldn't get an entire moveset rehaul unless it's really, really justified, personally. I think changing a few moves for some veterans is enough, like it's always been done.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

Marth doesn’t really need any changes outside of fixing the tipper mechanic. With the exception of Rollout and Egg Roll respectively, Jigglypuff and Yoshi are fine as is.

 

[Noipoi]

If Kiryu ever gets into Smash

I initially misread this as “If Kirby ever gets into Smash”

Which is preposterous, obviously. Sakurai would never