Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’m not sure how to tie that into Smash so I’ll ask a question about my most wanted female character, Jinx. Riot and Fortiche are famous for their music videos and getting established artists like Imagine Dragons and Linkin Park to write songs specifically for their shows or cinematic game trailers. I imagine the licensing for those would be pretty hard even if they were made specifically for their game and show. I wonder how Smash would handle the music assuming Jinx made it in.

Stuff for the shows and game trailers probably won't be used anyway, instead sticking to what's in the games themselves. For League of Legends I'd expect to see character themes from it and as well as a couple of tracks each from some of the Riot Forge games, and not songs like Still Here, Bite Marks, or anything KDA related.

 

[Gengar84]

Stuff for the shows and game trailers probably won't be used anyway, instead sticking to what's in the games themselves. For League of Legends I'd expect to see character themes from it and as well as a couple of tracks each from some of the Riot Forge games, and not songs like Still Here, Bite Marks, or anything KDA related.

I think you’re probably right. While those songs would be awesome, it’s probably too much work for Nintendo to work out the licensing and likely too expensive as well. I’ve got a little bit of hope we could get a few more thanks to Sephiroth coming with Advent Children music so maybe we could do the same with Arcane. I feel like they’d at least try to get “Get Jinxed” if nothing else. If not, songs are the easiest thing to mod into Smash anyways so I can probably get all those songs eventually through modding.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think veterans shouldn't get an entire moveset rehaul unless it's really, really justified, personally. I think changing a few moves for some veterans is enough, like it's always been done.

I think I want them to take it a step further so we don't end up with Mario still having Cape and Fludd for primary specials or Ganon being Falcondorf. While there are probably only around 10 or so characters who I hope are relatively different between games, I think Ultimate dropped the ball on updating some of the cast, although the needle shifting with new releases hasn't helped it either.

 

[Megadoomer]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

I cracked up laughing when this guy made an appearance:

 

[HyperSomari64]

Smash Bros needs a Tony Hawk rep, tbh.

kinda wish Spider-Man was DLC in 1+2.

 

[Louie G.]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

The plainest way I can answer this is there's a reason that Fox and Marth have been iterated on multiple times over.

IMO other characters in the conversation are Captain Falcon, Peach, Wolf and Incineroar to be honest. Maybe K. Rool as well because even though he's not the most 'balanced' character, I think his moveset is exactly what it should be and more. One of the most transformative portrayals in Smash and still feels like himself. We can give or take Toad on Peach but I wouldn't really change anything else about her.

What the success of characters like Fox / Marth / Falcon tells me is I'd honestly love to see another character built from scratch. Incineroar is probably the closest to this ground-up archetypical design that we've seen in a while and it's part of why I really like him.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Oh I see. I would have assumed it was the other way around since Eddie is a more normal sounding name for a person while Zato-1 would have made sense for a shadow creature. I know nothing about his lore, I just enjoyed playing him.

Two other fighting game characters I think look awesome but no nothing about are Hakumen and Sunsano-o from Blazblue. I’m guessing Blazblue in general has very little chance and if it ever got a character, it would be Ragna.

If we got a Blazblue character I personally would like Nu-13.

The project m ex remix mod convinced me she would be pretty sick in smash.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Character Design Thoughts

Best Designs

Works Well
/
Solid Foundation, but Needs Tweaks

Has Conceptual Problems

The bottom tier here doesn't need to be thrown in the dumpster, but they do need a change in direction for their movesets to work properly.

 

[Arcanir]

Metroid

• Cataris (Metroid Dread)

Spoiler: Reasoning

Dread getting a stage is obvious, right? I’m not going to lie, Cataris isn’t an overly inspired choice. I went with it because of Smash’s tendency to go with locations early in the game, especially with the “main” stage of a series, and Cataris has more interesting aesthetics than Artaria. I very much considered Raven Beak's arena, for whatever it's worth For a gimmick, it would no doubt have the Metroid classic of rising and falling lava. Additionally, I think adding EMMI in a similar fashion to the Ultimatr e Chimera is an easy way to make the stagef42h m9ore unique (assuming we’re not getting EMMI as an AT)

I have to disagree. Cataris' lava aesthetic would have it overlap with most of Metroid's current stages, and the gimmick of the level is basically asking for them to do Planet Zebes 0.75 over something more interesting. Artaria would immediately stand out by comparison by virtue of it's more unique and alien background along with allowing them to draw from the initial and most notable encounter with the EMMI.

 

[Laniv]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

In terms of what simply works, it's the spacies , Marth , and Captain Falcon . It just works (tm)

In terms of what is a good representation of the character, it's King K. Rool because they just hit every move on the mark

 

[WeirdChillFever]

On the note of movesets which character do you think has the perfect moveset I think it might unironically be Fox and falcon

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

 

[Wonder Smash]

Pfft you don't know what you're talking about. Kazuya is all about having a very serious response to extremely offbeat wacky ****

Umm..."Kazuya"?

 

[Louie G.]

Best Designs

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

Agree with this, honestly I believe both him and K. Rool showcase this excellently and they've raised the bar on how to design villains in Smash. Although the unnecessary one-winged comeback mechanic clutters him a little bit. That's an issue I have with most of the DLC designs on a more fundamental level, but otherwise I do love Sephiroth's kit and think it comes together extremely well. Sometimes less is more though.

...but maybe the goal here is to reflect some kind of second phase to a boss battle? That's a compelling premise if it's the intent, but right now the mechanic feels kind of inconsequential and doesn't shine as much when like every other DLC character had one (exaggeration).

As far as DLC characters go, I think Pyra / Mythra are the most successful design. They're my favorite execution of a transformation / swap character thus far by just making a no-nonsense stance change fighter. Once they're balanced out a bit next game I'll probably be eager to give them their flowers.

 

[AreJay25]

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

Conceptually, yeah, I'd say his moveset works just fine.

Execution wise, though... ehhhhhhhh. How they decided to balance him leaves a lot to be desired. He ends up feeling more frustrating to play than he should at times.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.



Agree with this, honestly I believe both him and K. Rool showcase this excellently and they've raised the bar on how to design villains in Smash. Although the unnecessary one-winged comeback mechanic clutters him a little bit. That's an issue I have with most of the DLC designs on a more fundamental level, but otherwise I do love Sephiroth's kit and think it comes together extremely well. Sometimes less is more though.

...but maybe the goal here is to reflect some kind of second phase to a boss battle? That's a compelling premise if it's the intent, but right now the mechanic feels kind of inconsequential and doesn't shine as much when like every other DLC character had one (exaggeration).

As far as DLC characters go, I think Pyra / Mythra are the most successful design. They're my favorite execution of a transformation / swap character thus far by just making a no-nonsense stance change fighter. Once they're balanced out a bit next game I'll probably be eager to give them their flowers.

Yeah, I wanted to mention Pyra and Mythra but I feel like the fact they feel good to play is more because of their overtuned buttons rather than their conceptual design.

Conceptually, yeah, I'd say his moveset works just fine.

Execution wise, though... ehhhhhhhh. How they decided to balance him leaves a lot to be desired. He ends up feeling more frustrating to play than he should at times.

Huh, I always thought he played really smoothly.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wanna mention here, which I think knocked it out of the park in terms of creating a boss set

It'd be better if you didn't need a college degree to understand how his Wing mechanic fully works

 

[smashkirby]

I like the invitation thing, but I can KINDA get where you're coming from with this? I'm just not really sure how you'd make a commonplace thing for the toys to life concept interesting or exciting for a fighting game trailer that gets the point across immediately, like would a kid buy a new toy/figure every trailer?

It is kinda funny that what was originally just part of Villager and Isabelle's trailers was expanded to Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra/Mythra, but considering its use in promotional material (like as placeholders for the Fighters Passes, being shown when they said more characters were coming), it's a pretty immediate way to get the point across at this point and I feel like it's likely to continue as a marketing/promotional tool considering Ultimate DLC expanded the invitation's role a lot lol

I think the letters are fine, personally.

While they're no replacement to the toys-to-life aspect the series started as, they are a thing that is mostly unique to Smash and prevents it from feeling like a truly soulless corporate crossover. It feels like the trailers are part of the world, part of the fighters' stories, rather than just a typical trailer.

The problem is that the letter thing gives the implication that Smash is this prestigious tournament rather than kids playing with figurines so the old soul and new soul feel contradictory to one another.

With that said, what's preventing both from coexisting? A kid could absolutely imagine their figurines going on a fighting tournament, right?

I'm not completely opposed to the invitations, really. If nothing else, I just wish Smash played up the child's existence again. Like, they obviously don't ever have to outright reveal the kid to us or anything. I mainly mean that perhaps we can see stuff like the den(??) where the child keeps the cast after they finish Classic or something.

If I remember correctly, Brawl had the cast (upon finishing Classic and All-Star) gather on the top of some tower or something, right? Smash 4 was some non-descript night area that contained the Smash Bros. symbol, and Ultimate, well... you know.

 

[AreJay25]

Huh, I always thought he played really smoothly.

It's mainly a lot of little things that add up to big issues with him.

They want him to be a glass cannon, but he's got very slow moves with thin hitboxes that he's got to be really methodical with. He has a comeback mechanic that he can barely use a lot of the time because he's so light while simultaneously being one of the tallest characters in the game. Said comeback mechanic has some really strange rules that that can screw him over depending on how far ahead or behind he is.

And then there's really weird things like Side B getting him killed sometimes because, for some reason, it's unsafe on hit.

I think he's pretty cool on paper, and he can be fun to play when things go right. But man, when things go wrong, you REALLY feel it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can appreciate Roy being here but I gotta disagree on Lucina. Roy had a lot of work done to create a more deliberate rushdown swordsman, but Lucina just cuts out Marth's intricate spacing gimmick with no major adjustments elsewhere. I don't think she needs to be changed all that much, but Marth's moveset was designed with the tipper in mind so there are elements here that are just not as deliberately thought out.

I was thinking I'd put them both there if Lucina didn't overshadow Marth due to his overemphasis on tippers, but I think I can agree that the correctly handled tipper mechanic is what made it so good, and Lucina lacks that.

I dunno what I'd do with her going forward, but I'd like to see her branch off from being either budget Marth or straight up better Marth depending on how Marth is handled.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I really wish I could include G&W in the moveset discussion since Ultimate proved his moveset is really solid with the right tweaks but I can't because of that stupid bomb Forward Air lmao

Replace that with the box again and we're back in business lol

 

[Idon]

There's no goddamn way we are putting sauceless Marth in best design, that disgusts me beyond words.

If this wasn't smash bros any other fighting game character made like this would be comically low-effort.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

This is probably just my ignorance speaking since my only experience with Yakuza is the opening hours of Like a Dragon but I’ve always felt the series is a bit too grounded in the real world to fit naturally into a game like Smash. I know there’s all kinds of over the top humor but the people and locations are very realistic and modern. To me, it’s almost like getting a Grand Theft Auto character in Smash. Not that I’m opposed at all, it would just feel a bit out of place to me. That could be part of the appeal though.

One of these games had a dreamworks movie style dance party ending

This isnt that serious.

 

[Louie G.]

Yakuza feels comparable to something like Metal Gear or Tekken in its juxtaposition to Smash, that it presents in a more 'serious' pseudo realistic style but involves so many goofy or fantastical elements that it feels correct. So that being said, we've already got precedent for how this might go. Kiryu, Ichiban and/or Majima would feel perfectly at home next to Mario and Pikachu if RGG and Sakurai can strike up an agreement.

The big barriers to overcome are simply a number of strong competitors from within Sega and whether or not the series' developers are willing to look the other way on those previous concerns about character portrayal. It definitely isn't a tonal or stylistic issue.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's no goddamn way we are putting sauceless Marth in best design, that disgusts me beyond words.

Current Marth, Marth in general, or Lucina?

 

[PlasmaDam]

I get Lucina appeal as the basic vanilla sword character but I think Marth tipper mechanic make him much more interesting as the basic sword character.it adds some flavor you know

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I really wish I could include G&W in the moveset discussion since Ultimate proved his moveset is really solid with the right tweaks but I can't because of that stupid bomb Forward Air lmao

Replace that with the box again and we're back in business lol

One fact is that the trampoline hitbox for G&W's up special didn't exist in Brawl and Smash 4 but instead was a wind box. That's why the move is mostly infamous in Ultimate alongside the character being less viable in older games.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yakuza feels comparable to something like Metal Gear or Tekken in its juxtaposition to Smash, that it presents in a more 'serious' pseudo realistic style but involves so many goofy or fantastical elements that it feels correct. So that being said, we've already got precedent for how this might go. Kiryu, Ichiban and/or Majima would feel perfectly at home next to Mario and Pikachu if RGG and Sakurai can strike up an agreement.

The big barriers to overcome are simply a number of strong competitors from within Sega and whether or not the series' developers are willing to look the other way on those previous concerns about character portrayal. It definitely isn't a tonal or stylistic issue.

The fact that Ichiban can have something like Essence of Orbital Laser as a Final Smash already tells me that they'd work fine in Smash lol

I agree on the developer thing (which may only apply to Kiryu anyway), but does Yakuza really have strong competition in SEGA characters? I mean obviously there's like Puyo Puyo that has the legacy, don't wanna count out Arle, but Yakuza was outright said to be one of SEGA's pillars alongside Sonic and Persona, which are both already in Smash.

Honestly if SEGA added anything that's not one of those two (or like another Sonic character, which I understand gives a Yakuza character at least two pretty strong competitors lol), I'd be kinda surprised lol

 

[Louie G.]

I agree on the developer thing (which may only apply to Kiryu anyway), but does Yakuza really have strong competition in SEGA characters? I mean obviously there's like Puyo Puyo that has the legacy, don't wanna count out Arle, but Yakuza was outright said to be one of SEGA's pillars alongside Sonic and Persona, which are both already in Smash.

Honestly if SEGA added anything that's not one of those two (or like another Sonic character, which I understand gives a Yakuza character at least two pretty strong competitors lol), I'd be kinda surprised lol

Not as heavy as maybe Capcom or Microsoft, but I think between Puyo Puyo, an additional Sonic or Persona character or maybe something from Shin Megami Tensei there are at least avenues where I could imagine Sega increasing its cast of characters without Yakuza in tow. Not to mention some of the weirder offshoot picks that we can't really predict. It's worth mentioning Sega's classic IP visibility has been stronger lately, with all those revivals coming up. And I think Akira is kind of a dark horse candidate in his own right, with Virtua Fighter seeing an upcoming release as well.

I'd agree that Yakuza stands pretty tall above most of its competition outside what we've already addressed, but I felt like mentioning that just because it's at least a real factor in play that could provide a barrier unlike "it doesn't fit in Smash".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really wish I could include G&W in the moveset discussion since Ultimate proved his moveset is really solid with the right tweaks but I can't because of that stupid bomb Forward Air lmao

Replace that with the box again and we're back in business lol

No mention of that war crime of an Up B?

It ain't fun to fight a glass cannon if the glass is bulletproof.

 

[BrawlX10]

Still have the feeling that they're going to include a char no one is expecting somehow.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No mention of that war crime of an Up B?

It ain't fun to fight a glass cannon if the glass is bulletproof.

Okay but consider the following: What if I want G&W to be the best and I'm upset he's currently number 4 after Steve, Sonic, and Snake on the most recent tier list? Like this is an underdog story 17 years in the making, from being so comically rushed that some of his aerials can't be L-cancelled because they're programmed as specials and having a shield that doesn't even cover his feet to being one of the best in the game that has everyone in it?

Real talk though, maybe they could tweak that to make it not as crazy, but Ultimate is still proof that his moveset is really solid given the right amount of attention, considering he's been high tier throughout all of Ultimate, and considering how G&W's moveset is and that he transforms for each move now, I think he's a good example of being a really solid moveset while ALSO being very good character-wise.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Still have the feeling that they're going to include a char no one is expecting somehow.

That.... is literally the point of the "surprise character" we've had in the past few games.

And even if we, the obscure corner of the Smash fandom that is Smashboards speculation thread, end up expecting the surprise (which is not unlikely), the point of a "surprise character" is that it's someone the general audience wouldn't really expect to see a moveset for.

 

[fogbadge]

Still have the feeling that they're going to include a char no one is expecting somehow.

trouble is we’re all looking for a surprise character now and as we all know it’s hard to surprise people when they’re looking for a surprise

 

[Guynamednelson]

trouble is we’re all looking for a surprise character now

Luckily half of the base game roster will be considered "surprising" just from them adding base game characters to the base game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not as heavy as maybe Capcom or Microsoft, but I think between Puyo Puyo, an additional Sonic or Persona character or maybe something from Shin Megami Tensei there are at least avenues where I could imagine Sega increasing its cast of characters without Yakuza in tow. Not to mention some of the weirder offshoot picks that we can't really predict. It's worth mentioning Sega's classic IP visibility has been stronger lately, with all those revivals coming up. And I think Akira is kind of a dark horse candidate in his own right, with Virtua Fighter seeing an upcoming release as well.

I'd agree that Yakuza stands pretty tall above most of its competition outside what we've already addressed, but I felt like mentioning that just because it's at least a real factor in play that could provide a barrier unlike "it doesn't fit in Smash".

I dont think it's that big an issue, Sega is kinda treating Yakuza as it's main franchise, more of a mascot than the Sonic series is.

 

[BrawlX10]

I honestly can see Yakuza, Puyo Puyo and 2nd Sonic rep happening, i honestly i don't know which one is more likely from the other lol.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

considering he's been high tier throughout all of Ultimate,

That isn't exactly true since the character was considered a mid to low tier in the start of Ultimate.

 

[cashregister9]

Still have the feeling that they're going to include a char no one is expecting somehow.

Solid first fourth party pick ngl

 

[Louie G.]

I dont think it's that big an issue, Sega is kinda treating Yakuza as it's main franchise, more of a mascot than the Sonic series is.

I'm gonna say no on that. Yakuza is clearly a big deal for the company, but we don't have to overstate things that much. Sonic is their mascot franchise.

Note the character used as the face of the company here (Sonic), and while Yakuza has a big promotional showcase right now I'm assuming the banner swaps out to accommodate brand new releases. What you're interpreting as Yakuza becoming their "main franchise" is likely the fact that we've gotten two highly marketed new games in the span of around a year. So it's been a frequent benefactor of Sega's marketing spotlight.

Also kind of an odd thing to say when Sonic is receiving just so much multimedia coverage over the past couple years, from huge blockbuster movies to a constant stream of merchandise. It's really hard to argue otherwise. We can talk about how big Yakuza has gotten but let's not be ridiculous.

 

[Perkilator]

Still have the feeling that they're going to include a char no one is expecting somehow.

I think Power Pro-kun from Konami’s Power Pros Baseball franchise would be a perfect choice for a surprise pick.