Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Would Excitebiker count as a surprise character?

This has been my go-to for the time being, but I'm uncertain. I think Excitebiker lives on the edge a little bit. Unlike fellow 'retro' NES-era characters like Ice Climbers or Pit, Excitebiker is not a traditional protagonist. They are a faceless entity. In that respect perhaps they stride a bit closer to someone like Mr. Game & Watch. We scan for every and any possibility, so Excitebiker isn't too weird to us, but I don't think they're someone who immediately comes to mind to the general public. But despite this, maintains a strong level of notoriety not unlike Duck Hunt.

I think Duck Hunt is probably the closest point of comparison here. On the off chance that we speculated on Duck Hunt Dog / "Mr. Peepers" here back in 2013 or whenever, this was deemed as the game's potential retro pick. Duck Hunt was classified alongside Ice Climber or Kid Icarus. I think to most of us, Wii Fit Trainer felt like the WTF or "hardware" character which was a budding term at the time, until Sakurai clarified that it was in fact Duck Hunt who fulfilled the surprise role. So yeah on surface level Excitebiker doesn't seem like a surprise character, but perhaps it still would be. Duck Hunt wasn't completely unpredictable, it was just an unorthodox fighter with a novel execution. Excitebiker would achieve the same niche, arguably.

But the real answer is a bit of a copout - he counts if Sakurai says he counts. That's it really, his intent behind the addition is the only criteria. Something that was clarified with Duck Hunt and Piranha Plant and is otherwise just kind of self-evident for Mr. G&W and ROB. Would Excitebiker count? We'd just have to wait for him to tell us that he does, or use process of elimination if nobody else is particularly out of the ordinary I suppose.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'll take it as nothing but a dime a dozen random /v/ "leak" since this is by far not the only one that's come up since the beginning of the month and this is just some random YouTuber posting on it now.

In fact, I have the original post right here since I save these for archival purposes JUST FOR random coverage like this. View attachment 400325

Let's not give random fake leaks attention just because some nobody that wants to be the next LaxChris/Blocked Content covers it. No seriously, if you look at his other videos, he's covering every other random /v/ "leak", not just this one.

It’s from 4Chan so it’s almost guaranteed fake with very few exceptions like Let’s Go being leaked there in 2018.

 

[Garteam]

Even Duck Hunt is Smash for's formal WTF character, I actually think Wii Fit Trainer functions better as a WTF character in practice. Duck Hunt Dog had a handful of people predicting his inclusion, even if people didn't conceptualize the full Duck Hunt team. No one saw the Wii Fit Trainer coming, even if her moveset and inclusion are a bit more grounded relative to Duck Hunt in hindsight.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

It’s from 4Chan so it’s almost guaranteed fake with very few exceptions like Let’s Go being leaked there in 2018.

This seems very fake like I could break down everything into pieces about why it’s fake.
1. The title, Why would they do that? Like, I know the names are different regionally but why would they just reverse them for the new one, That’s just confusing and dumb. Almost zero chance of happening.
2. It seems weird for there to be legal issues with Final Fantasy and not other series that might have issues like Kingdom Hearts.
3. Isaac and Lynn are both pretty unrealistic, Neither of them have been a major part of games in forever. I mean Isaac could maybe happen but Lynn? No way. Really the only thing that makes Lynn particularly important is her being from the first Fire Emblem to release in the US, But if you aren’t from America she’s just another Fire Emblem protagonist.
4. Shantae seems pretty unlikely as the only new third party character here (Aside from the echoes), Like why would she be the most high priority one to do? She’s not particularly iconic, She’s not really relevant right now, Just seems random other than being a somewhat common fan request.
5. Her name is Ayumi Tachibana not Ayumi Takabana.
6. Isaac getting in is enough of a stretch I highly, HIGHLY, Doubt he would get an echo.
7. I don’t think Nintendo would do a pre order exclusive character, Nintendo typically avoids having any kind of digital pre order bonus and that just seems extremely anti consumer especially for a game with a competitive community. Maybe they mean like Piranha Plant where he would be available to buy later but it was not made clear.
8. Tifa was pre planned as DLC to bring back the Final Fantasy content??? Why??? Why couldn’t it just Ben in the base game if they can use it anyway, And I thought Zack was in the base game too, That’s a new character.
9. Also that’s four seperate Final Fantasy 7 characters, Like, Four characters is a massive amount for a third party series cause they’ve only ever had two before, But also all of them are from 7??? Like come on if you can do four Final a fantasy characters you can afford to do one that’s not from 7.
This is fake.

 

[Louie G.]

Really the only thing that makes Lynn particularly important is her being from the first Fire Emblem to release in the US, But if you aren’t from America she’s just another Fire Emblem protagonist.

I'm not saying Lyn is or isn't going to happen, but this is dismissive of a character who is otherwise treated as one of the faces of the series. She's often put on an equivalent pedestal to Marth or Ike, as evidenced by the nintendo.jp Fire Emblem portal. This is the Japanese site btw, not the American site.

Outside of this she continues to rank highly in popularity polls, still receives merch, and I suppose ignoring the Three Houses crew (I'm just going to assume Edelgard has passed her by now for female popularity? I could be wrong) is the highest sitting non-playable-in-Smash protagonist of them all. In fact, to spin your wording back at you a little bit, the only thing that makes her DIFFERENT than the likes of Ike or Chrom is that she got screwed by Smash's timing and FE selection process. Otherwise it doesn't take much to see how popular and valued she is among both fans and the series proper. Had she made it in Brawl this wouldn't even be a conversation, we would probably near unanimously consider these three to be the quintessential FE old guard in Smash.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I saw Stealth on X say that about Sakurai's latest interview about how Japanese game devs shouldn't cater to the Western audiences, he said he has a similar mindset for Smash but I didn't see anything in there directly that suggested that.. esp w/ regards to American made western reps.

I personally don't buy it, I'm sure we'll get another western character, especially one not from Europe. But yea, wb y'all

 

[Gengar84]

I saw Stealth on X say that about Sakurai's latest interview about how Japanese game devs shouldn't cater to the Western audiences, he said he has a similar mindset for Smash but I didn't see anything in there directly that suggested that.. esp w/ regards to American made western reps.

I personally don't buy it, I'm sure we'll get another western character, especially one not from Europe. But yea, wb y'all

I don’t think his statement really has anything to do with the likelihood of adding western characters to Smash. I think he’s more talking about not wanting to sacrifice his vision just to chase trends. That hasn’t really worked out all that well for a lot of franchises that have tried. I personally think we’ll start seeing more and more global characters in Smash over time. Steve and Banjo opened the door for western characters in the same way Snake and Sonic did for third party characters in general. This is all just a hunch though.

 

[Ivander]

I saw Stealth on X say that about Sakurai's latest interview about how Japanese game devs shouldn't cater to the Western audiences, he said he has a similar mindset for Smash but I didn't see anything in there directly that suggested that.. esp w/ regards to American made western reps.

I personally don't buy it, I'm sure we'll get another western character, especially one not from Europe. But yea, wb y'all

I do not see how telling Japanese devs that they should develop what they want to personally develop rather than cater to Western interests, in any way, relates to what Reps Sakurai chooses for Smash Bros. That just feels like taking Sakurai's words to the extreme and using it to as an explaination for why there are hardly any Western-made reps in Smash, instead of keeping the words to the context they were spoken in regards to.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I don’t think his statement really has anything to do with the likelihood of adding western characters to Smash. I think he’s more talking about not wanting to sacrifice his vision just to chase trends. That hasn’t really worked out all that well for a lot of franchises that have tried. I personally think we’ll start seeing more and more global characters in Smash over time. Steve and Banjo opened the door for western characters in the same way Snake and Sonic did for third party characters in general. This is all just a hunch though.

agreed

Also holy crap it's been a fat minute since I was here cuz life, happy 40 years on the blue marble

 

[Louie G.]

I personally don't buy it, I'm sure we'll get another western character, especially one not from Europe. But yea, wb y'all

Sakurai was speaking in terms of game essence and aesthetics rather than more abstract / trivial things like character selection. Smash is an unabashedly Japanese game in flavor, which is just a 'vibe'. It's bouncy and colorful and has a wacky sense of humor. Appealing to "western sensibilities" would probably be akin to making Smash grittier or more realistic, giving it a hard rock soundtrack, giving all the characters epic snarky MCU-style banter. A bit cliche, but I'm sure it gets the point across here. So Sakurai just feels like the identity of Japanese series should not be exchanged for manufactured world appeal. We already like those games for what they are.

Smash has catered to western tastes for years, roster-wise. Ultimate alone has multiple characters created by western artists and developers - King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, Dark Samus and Steve. Metroid's popularity is skewed in our favor as well so Ridley was very much a bone tossed our way. Prior to that, Little Mac is a relative obscurity overseas but Punch-Out is a big deal here in America. Even back in Brawl, as is well addressed at this point, Sonic is much more popular outside of Japan than he is within it. And that's not even to begin to address that series like Mario and Pokemon simply appeal to everyone in the world already.

I think it's safe to assume this isn't an opinion that Sakurai developed on a dime after Ultimate. It's more realistic to believe he is staying true to his existing principles, which have organically amassed a worldwide audience of fans.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'm not saying Lyn is or isn't going to happen, but this is dismissive of a character who is otherwise treated as one of the faces of the series. She's often put on an equivalent pedestal to Marth or Ike, as evidenced by the nintendo.jp Fire Emblem portal. This is the Japanese site btw, not the American site.

View attachment 400337

Outside of this she continues to rank highly in popularity polls, still receives merch, and I suppose ignoring the Three Houses crew (I'm just going to assume Edelgard has passed her by now for female popularity? I could be wrong) is the highest sitting non-playable-in-Smash protagonist of them all. In fact, to spin your wording back at you a little bit, the only thing that makes her DIFFERENT than the likes of Ike or Chrom is that she got screwed by Smash's timing and FE selection process. Otherwise it doesn't take much to see how popular and valued she is among both fans and the series proper. Had she made it in Brawl this wouldn't even be a conversation, we would probably near unanimously consider these three to be the quintessential FE old guard in Smash.

Lyn is the most likely past Fire Emblem character in my opinion outside of Three Houses.

 

[Gengar84]

agreed

Also holy crap it's been a fat minute since I was here cuz life, happy 40 years on the blue marble

lol thanks. I’m actually turning 41 in April. Man I feel old.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Btw been playing a bunch of games lately I recommend:

If you're into Roguelikes and guns, check out Remnant 2

a tiny bit similar but way more cartoony, Risk of Rain is a fantastic game. Great soundtrack too

Also I haven't finished it but if you're into sandbox games check out Grounded

 

[Louie G.]

Lyn is the most likely past Fire Emblem character in my opinion outside of Three Houses.

I think Alear is still the most realistic choice by default, even though I don't personally think they'll be in the game. It's just "safe". Right now I'm predicting Fire Emblem does not get a new character at all.

But if they ever chose to go off course and choose someone outside the cycle of new protagonists, I would be surprised if it wasn't Lyn given her continued prominence and heavily skewed popularity within the Smash community. Edelgard and Co. feel unlikely on behalf of Byleth already using all their weapons by design, so I would put Lyn ahead of them even if I would personally switch Byleth out for a House Leader myself. Outside of these options I don't think anyone else is really popular or relevant enough to be considered in a vacuum.

Side note, the winners of that first Fire Emblem Heroes popularity poll... one of these things is not like the other, huh?

 

[fogbadge]

lol thanks. I’m actually turning 41 in April. Man I feel old.

one more year and you’ll be the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also holy crap it's been a fat minute since I was here cuz life, happy 40 years on the blue marble

bottom text

 

[Guynamednelson]

View attachment 400338
View attachment 400339

bottom text

He was wishing it to Gengar84.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Side note, the winners of that first Fire Emblem Heroes popularity poll... one of these things is not like the other, huh?

Ike is the only one that doesn't have blue as his primary color.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Side note, the winners of that first Fire Emblem Heroes popularity poll... one of these things is not like the other, huh?
View attachment 400340

Right. One of those doesn’t have a localized game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He was wishing it to Gengar84.

.......I cannot read

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Right. One of those doesn’t have a localized game.

What are you talking about Golden?

Fire Emblem Engage was released worldwide.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

.......I cannot read

Had to

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

I'm not saying Lyn is or isn't going to happen, but this is dismissive of a character who is otherwise treated as one of the faces of the series. She's often put on an equivalent pedestal to Marth or Ike, as evidenced by the nintendo.jp Fire Emblem portal. This is the Japanese site btw, not the American site.

View attachment 400337

Outside of this she continues to rank highly in popularity polls, still receives merch, and I suppose ignoring the Three Houses crew (I'm just going to assume Edelgard has passed her by now for female popularity? I could be wrong) is the highest sitting non-playable-in-Smash protagonist of them all. In fact, to spin your wording back at you a little bit, the only thing that makes her DIFFERENT than the likes of Ike or Chrom is that she got screwed by Smash's timing and FE selection process. Otherwise it doesn't take much to see how popular and valued she is among both fans and the series proper. Had she made it in Brawl this wouldn't even be a conversation, we would probably near unanimously consider these three to be the quintessential FE old guard in Smash.

Sorry.

 

[BrawlX10]

If we expand things to a JP standpoint then Kunio is a huge one IMO

I could see Kunio joining, even as a base game pick. He's def a sleeper pick imo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But like, for real. Lyn is one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters period. Nowadays the MOST popular is probably either Lyn, Ike or Edelgard with maybe Lucina coming close. Or Gatekeeper.

None of the Fire Emblem characters we have in Smash are truly unpopular. Corrin is controversial but they still seem to be popular enough to be notable.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

None of the Fire Emblem characters we have in Smash are truly unpopular. Corrin is controversial but they still seem to be popular enough to be notable.

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

View attachment 400341

Had to

Thank you, Sub-Zero

 

[Shinuto]

This seems very fake like I could break down everything into pieces about why it’s fake.
1. The title, Why would they do that? Like, I know the names are different regionally but why would they just reverse them for the new one, That’s just confusing and dumb. Almost zero chance of happening.
2. It seems weird for there to be legal issues with Final Fantasy and not other series that might have issues like Kingdom Hearts.
3. Isaac and Lynn are both pretty unrealistic, Neither of them have been a major part of games in forever. I mean Isaac could maybe happen but Lynn? No way. Really the only thing that makes Lynn particularly important is her being from the first Fire Emblem to release in the US, But if you aren’t from America she’s just another Fire Emblem protagonist.
4. Shantae seems pretty unlikely as the only new third party character here (Aside from the echoes), Like why would she be the most high priority one to do? She’s not particularly iconic, She’s not really relevant right now, Just seems random other than being a somewhat common fan request.
5. Her name is Ayumi Tachibana not Ayumi Takabana.
6. Isaac getting in is enough of a stretch I highly, HIGHLY, Doubt he would get an echo.
7. I don’t think Nintendo would do a pre order exclusive character, Nintendo typically avoids having any kind of digital pre order bonus and that just seems extremely anti consumer especially for a game with a competitive community. Maybe they mean like Piranha Plant where he would be available to buy later but it was not made clear.
8. Tifa was pre planned as DLC to bring back the Final Fantasy content??? Why??? Why couldn’t it just Ben in the base game if they can use it anyway, And I thought Zack was in the base game too, That’s a new character.
9. Also that’s four seperate Final Fantasy 7 characters, Like, Four characters is a massive amount for a third party series cause they’ve only ever had two before, But also all of them are from 7??? Like come on if you can do four Final a fantasy characters you can afford to do one that’s not from 7.
This is fake.

to be fair Resident Evil ALSO did this with the switching of titles for 7.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

to be fair Resident Evil ALSO did this with the switching of titles for 7.

The other region's title was actually a subtitle so we had Resident Evil 7: Biohazard and Biohazard 7: Resident Evil.

Either way, it still conveyed that this was the seventh title in the well-known series all while being cheeky by referencing its other name.

This is very different from what that """leak""" is doing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

True.

But like, it's still Corrin. Outside of specifically FEH, they are the same character.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

I'm pretty sure that was already true long beforehand but it's especially true nowadays because Warriors and Engage made female Corrin the main one lol



Anyhow, relating to the general topic, I agree that if there was really strong precedent for it like with Pokemon adding Pokemon Trainer alongside Lucario in Brawl that Lyn would be the most likely old FE protag to add to the game. FE doesn't really have that precedent though when the only exceptions to their usual fare are Marth, the original protag that we know was at least considered for Smash 64 and had presence on the SNES through FE3, and Chrom who was added as an Echo because he was a popular request.

Basically since FE joined Smash it's been running with "new protag = Smash selection", since Roy was promotional, Ike's game came out in 2005 when Brawl's project plan was happening, Lucina and Robin got in because Awakening came out close to Smash 4's plan, Corrin was DLC when their game had come out in Japan, and Byleth was not long after 3H came out.

Barring a new game coming out early in the Switch 2 (which I do think is possible given the timeframe, though even in the event that Smash started development last year I don't think IntSys does things like Pokemon, as in saving a slot for a future protag if they're working on one), I'd say Alear is the most likely candidate and Lyn would need a serious shakeup in the way FE characters are chosen.

 

[SPEN18]

I'm just going to assume Edelgard has passed her by now for female popularity? I could be wron

As Lyn was a CYL winner before TH came out, we haven't seen her go up against the TH characters in a large poll oriented towards the FE fanbase. Though Lyn comfortably beat Edelgard and others in Swamp's Smash-oriented poll, so there's that. Both are in the upper tier of popularity easily, though.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

An example is how Male Corrin still hasn’t won Choose Your Legends in Heroes compared to Robin and Byleth where both versions have won. Alear didn’t win anything yet (Engage in general).

Also Female Corrin being represented in Warriors and Engage. Also the Classic Mode Mural for Ultimate.

 

[SharkLord]

Sakurai was speaking in terms of game essence and aesthetics rather than more abstract / trivial things like character selection. Smash is an unabashedly Japanese game in flavor, which is just a 'vibe'. It's bouncy and colorful and has a wacky sense of humor. Appealing to "western sensibilities" would probably be akin to making Smash grittier or more realistic, giving it a hard rock soundtrack, giving all the characters epic snarky MCU-style banter. A bit cliche, but I'm sure it gets the point across here. So Sakurai just feels like the identity of Japanese series should not be exchanged for manufactured world appeal. We already like those games for what they are.

Smash has catered to western tastes for years, roster-wise. Ultimate alone has multiple characters created by western artists and developers - King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, Dark Samus and Steve. Metroid's popularity is skewed in our favor as well so Ridley was very much a bone tossed our way. Prior to that, Little Mac is a relative obscurity overseas but Punch-Out is a big deal here in America. Even back in Brawl, as is well addressed at this point, Sonic is much more popular outside of Japan than he is within it. And that's not even to begin to address that series like Mario and Pokemon simply appeal to everyone in the world already.

I think it's safe to assume this isn't an opinion that Sakurai developed on a dime after Ultimate. It's more realistic to believe he is staying true to his existing principles, which have organically amassed a worldwide audience of fans.

Mostly a nitpick since you're pretty spot-on otherwise, but nowadays "Western" soundtracks are a specific brand of cinematic orchestration meant to blend into the background. A lot of Smash remixes actually are pretty rock-y - Hell, it was arguably even more rock-based back in Brawl. Though, those Smash remixes often incorporate synths, pianos, and violins, which seems to crop up quite often in Japanese video game soundtracks but not as much in Western rock and metal, unless we're talking about a symphonic metal band.

Ike is the only one that doesn't have blue as his primary color.

And Lyn is the only one without a big flowing cape

 

[Ivander]

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

Yeah, though FEH has helped a bit, as he's been in the Top 20 for the last couple CYLs compared to the early CYLs where he was very far down the list. Heck, he almost got in the Top 10 this CYL, as he was around 150 votes behind Yuri from Three Houses.

 

[ninjahmos]

Smash needs more jazz-funk music, like this remix of 11th Street.

 

[Garteam]

Lyn's biggest hurdle will always be the way Fire Emblem is structured as a series. Each game having a unique cast always incentivizes Smash to look towards the future when adding characters because there's constantly new faces that will define what Fire Emblem looks like to new fans.

This next Smash is a particularly rough situation for Lyn to be in because, assuming there are cuts, she has to compete against five non-echo vets to get into the game. overlaps with a lot of the pros behind adding Lyn, too; they're both post-Kaga, pre-3DS characters with distinct swordplay that are popular among Fire Emblem fans. could also be problematic due to being a GBA FE character with a proven track record in Smash, but Lyn at least has the advantage of not being a derivative of Marth.

That being said, the leak is fake because it claims Geno and Mallow are in Waluigi's taunts, not because Lyn is in it. I'm a Lyn skeptic, but adding Geno and Mallow that way makes no ****ing sense.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That being said, the leak is fake because it claims Geno and Mallow are in Waluigi's taunts, not because Lyn is in it. I'm a Lyn skeptic, but adding Geno and Mallow that way makes no ****ing sense.

Pretty sure it's just saying Geno is in with Mallow in his taunts, not that both of them are on Waluigi, otherwise you'd presumably just format that like "Waluigi (Geno, Mallow are in his taunts)".

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Pretty sure it's just saying Geno is in with Mallow in his taunts, not that both of them are on Waluigi, otherwise you'd presumably just format that like "Waluigi (Geno, Mallow are in his taunts)".

This.
There's a separation between Waluigi and Geno.

 

[Undella2]

Let's be accurate. is popular enough to be notable.

No one really talks about .

I'll be honest, when I play Corrin, I play male Corrin. As for the other two avatars... I think I play as female robin and male byleth more commonly. But Corrin's the one that I almost always go for specifically the male version. I just don't like the female one for whatever reason, though I can't place my finger on it really. Maybe it's the weird thigh window in the original design for fem corrin (though it isn't in her smash model IIRC). I dunno.