• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
11,375
If Rufus doesn't take off with Street Fighter fans, oh well, they can try something different. But if Lucario doesn't take off with Smash fans, they can't cut him or the millions of Pokemon fans may feel alienated and slighted. In the context of Pokemon, Lucario is essential, and Smash inherits that baggage. Smash's nature as a company wide crossover has inflated this "essential" list.
Considering Smash Bros' nature of making characters more reoccurring and popular in their home series after their appearance, imagine they put Rufus in Smash Bros, he's actually fun to play and then Capcom and the Street Fighter fans just look at each other and go, "........****, he's going to be a mainstay in future games now, isn't he?" :4pacman:

And no, I am not trying to bring back the whole surprise 3rd party character debacle again. It's just meant to be "For the lols". So It's absolutely on you if you bring it back. :demon:
 
Last edited:

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
78,487
Location
somewhere in Canada
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
Considering Smash Bros' nature of making characters more reoccurring and popular in their home series after their appearance, imagine they put Rufus in Smash Bros, he's actually fun to play and then Capcom and the Street Fighter fans just look at each other and go, "........****, he's going to be a mainstay in future games now, isn't he?" :4pacman:

And no, I am not trying to bring back the whole surprise 3rd party character debacle again. It's just meant to be "For the lols". So It's absolutely on you if you bring it back. :demon:
Look, Smash added Ken

It's only a matter of time before we see a trailer open up with "I'VE FINALLY FOUND YOU, KEN MASTUHS!" ...only to show Terry instead :4pacman:
 

Undella2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
320
It probably won't happen at all for a variety of reasons, and I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to support a full character for it, but I'd be pleased to see Blasphemous get like a trophy/spirit or some music or something in the next smash game.

The aesthetic of it is immaculate imo, and when I was studying abroad in Spain, I was staying within walking distance of the game's dev studio in Seville, haha. Would be happy to see them have greater success.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

ᕦ_(⌐■+|+■)_ᕤ
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
8,678
Location
Gensokyo
NNID
breloomer236
3DS FC
2449-4708-5381
Switch FC
SW-7045-4156-8715
Oh, well... I mostly meant that around the time the Ballot ended or so, I feel like people actually took a better look at the Japanese version of the Ballot's webpage and realized that the whole thing about the character who got the most votes wasn't THE only method a character needs to get into Smash.

It was more so that as long as you suggested SOMEONE on the Ballot (who was viable for an appearance in Smash), they'd take them into genuine consideration.
I mean probably, but it still makes sense to add the ones with higher vote counts earlier than picking someone with just a handful of votes to their name, considering that means the character would appeal to the most people possible for marketing purposes and everything.
 

AreJay25

May or May Not Be Pac-Man
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
7,278
Location
Location
It probably won't happen at all for a variety of reasons, and I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to support a full character for it, but I'd be pleased to see Blasphemous get like a trophy/spirit or some music or something in the next smash game.

The aesthetic of it is immaculate imo, and when I was studying abroad in Spain, I was staying within walking distance of the game's dev studio in Seville, haha. Would be happy to see them have greater success.
Well, even if nothing from Blasphemous itself gets in, the dev studio might still get some representation if Hayabusa makes it since they're working on Ninja Gaiden Ragebound.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
11,136
Should the character's classic mode ending stay with just the victory image at the end of their route? Or have an small video before their victory image?
I miss these so much.



Look, Smash added Ken

It's only a matter of time before we see a trailer open up with "I'VE FINALLY FOUND YOU, KEN MASTUHS!" ...only to show Terry instead :4pacman:
Street fighter 6 has the potential to do the funniest thing.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,945
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Street fighter 6 has the potential to do the funniest thing.
As funny as it would be, I feel like the way to re-add Rufus would be to give him some character development that makes him calm the heck down. Or at least, make him not nearly as abrasive. Heh. Maybe he could have Dan as a mentor. That'd be pretty darn funny, and would work pretty well for developing both of them.

Or they could just replace him with a hot lady. That seems to be what works. lol
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
78,487
Location
somewhere in Canada
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
As funny as it would be, I feel like the way to re-add Rufus would be to give him some character development that makes him calm the heck down. Or at least, make him not nearly as abrasive. Heh. Maybe he could have Dan as a mentor. That'd be pretty darn funny, and would work pretty well for developing both of them.
My personal thought would be that he finally finds Ken for real but Ken is in such a low point that Rufus doesn't feel like fighting him and instead ends up being like, the most supportive guy.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2024
Messages
1,935
Location
Questioning my existence while asleep
My personal thought would be that he finally finds Ken for real but Ken is in such a low point that Rufus doesn't feel like fighting him and instead ends up being like, the most supportive guy.
He may have lost his apes, but he will gain an unexpected best friend.
 

BrawlX10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2025
Messages
363
The Core Crystal (Xenoblade 2) is a good candidate, with being able to summon random Blades to assist you in battle. The only problem might be that it might be too similar to a PokéBall or an Assist Trophy.
Tbh, i don't think it would be an issue, as long as it's a small number, like 5 or 6.
 

smashkirby

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
7,046
Location
Smashville
I mean probably, but it still makes sense to add the ones with higher vote counts earlier than picking someone with just a handful of votes to their name, considering that means the character would appeal to the most people possible for marketing purposes and everything.
I mean, I wasn't trying to diminish the whole 'high amount of votes' thing. If anything, I figure it'd show Sakurai that there's a desire for characters that he might not think about all too much.

I guess the best way I can describe this is... if someone voted for, say, Cupid (from Sennen Kazoku), Icarus (from Glory of Heracles), or Yama (from The Tower SP/SimTower), I assume Sakurai would at least keep them in mind to feature them in Smash Bros. at SOME POINT in SOME ROLE (not necessarily as a playable character).
 

SPEN18

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
2,416
Location
MI, USA
Yeah to run with the example given, there's really nothing, like, fundamentally broken about Lucario the character itself that would suggest it couldn't have an amazingly fun moveset, or couldn't be translated to Smash in an effective and unique way. Lucario of all characters, who is one of the raddest Fighting Pocket Monsters around with no visible implementation issues. So I think they simply need to be more willing to tune up the existing movesets that aren't as popular. Basically, if a character feels essential to include but its current implementation feels lacking, let's first see what we can think of to amend that implementation and we might end up in a scenario where everyone is pleased.
Smash is a game and its gameplay matters, and Smash is a crossover and the representational / name brand aspects matter, too. You have to cater to both; thankfully, we're in a world where most prominent videogame characters and franchises bring a healthy amount of unique material with them without even having to think too hard, and where Smash has a pretty flexible core gameplay in terms of being able to adapt a large number of disparate games, characters, and archetypes from source. Not to say we're without limitations, but it's kind of a gift how the platform fighter genre works so well with going for the crossover appeal. Maybe I am overly optimistic in this department, but I feel like, in most scenarios, there's a way we can both get the characters we'd ideally like to have represented while also having that be put together into a really well-playing game...
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,945
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
The Core Crystal (Xenoblade 2) is a good candidate, with being able to summon random Blades to assist you in battle. The only problem might be that it might be too similar to a PokéBall or an Assist Trophy.
What I would do with this is have fighters awaken core crystals that summon a random Blade, who gives your their weapon as an item. Using the item charges up a Blade Special, which can be executed with the special move button once fully charged. Opponents can get rid of Blades by K.O.ing them like assist trophies and the like.

So essentially, it's like a powerful one shot item that instead of collecting parts for the big blast, you have to use a battering, shooting, or thrown item and protect an NPC for long enough to charge up a meter.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2024
Messages
1,935
Location
Questioning my existence while asleep
I mean, I wasn't trying to diminish the whole 'high amount of votes' thing. If anything, I figure it'd show Sakurai that there's a desire for characters that he might not think about all too much.

I guess the best way I can describe this is... if someone voted for, say, Cupid (from Sennen Kazoku), Icarus (from Glory of Heracles), or Yama (from The Tower SP/SimTower), I assume Sakurai would at least keep them in mind to feature them in Smash Bros. at SOME POINT in SOME ROLE (not necessarily as a playable character).
Which can be immediately reflected through Ultimate in some of its additional Assists and Mii Costumes for example,not just the fighters.
 

BrawlX10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2025
Messages
363
By the way, how many newcomers do you expect in the base game (excluding Echo Fighters)? Assuming it's a brand new game, of course.
Ultimate had only six non-Echo newcomers in the base game. However, compared to recent fighting game sequels, that's honestly pretty standard and on the higher side. For instance:
  • Street Fighter 6 had 6 newcomers in the base game.
  • King of Fighters XV had 4.
  • Tekken 8 had 3.
  • Guilty Gear Strive had 2.
These are traditional fighting games that are very heavy on DLC. A more relevant comparison might be with Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 2, another platform fighter, which launched with eleven newcomers. However, it probably has lower-quality models and animations than Smash 6, and it also had to cut plenty of content from the first game.

Personally, I'm thinking nine newcomers—more than Ultimate but fewer than Smash 4.
 
Last edited:

Perkilator

Smash Legend
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
11,843
Location
The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
Switch FC
SW-3204-0809-5605
By the way, how many newcomers do you expect in the base game (excluding Echo Fighters)? Assuming it's a brand new game, of course.
Ultimate had only six non-Echo newcomers in the base game. However, compared to recent fighting game sequels, that's honestly pretty standard and on the higher side. For instance:
  • Street Fighter 6 had 6 newcomers in the base game.
  • King of Fighters XV had 4.
  • Tekken 8 had 3.
  • Guilty Gear Strive had 2.
These are traditional fighting games that are very heavy on DLC. A more relevant comparison might be with Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 2, another platform fighter, which launched with eleven newcomers. However, it probably has lower-quality models and animations than Smash 6, and it also had to cut plenty of content from the first game.

Personally, I'm thinking nine newcomers—more than Ultimate but fewer than Smash 4.
Including clones/Echoes, the highest amount of newcomers I can see joining the battle is 18, since that’s the number of newcomers that Brawl launched with.
 

ninjahmos

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
1,855
Location
Noneya Business
Switch FC
SW-8579-4123-9016
By the way, how many newcomers do you expect in the base game (excluding Echo Fighters)? Assuming it's a brand new game, of course.
Ultimate had only six non-Echo newcomers in the base game. However, compared to recent fighting game sequels, that's honestly pretty standard and on the higher side. For instance:
  • Street Fighter 6 had 6 newcomers in the base game.
  • King of Fighters XV had 4.
  • Tekken 8 had 3.
  • Guilty Gear Strive had 2.
These are traditional fighting games that are very heavy on DLC. A more relevant comparison might be with Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 2, another platform fighter, which launched with eleven newcomers. However, it probably has lower-quality models and animations than Smash 6, and it also had to cut plenty of content from the first game.

Personally, I'm thinking nine newcomers—more than Ultimate but fewer than Smash 4.
I'm gonna quote an earlier post of mine:

I think that if the next game has a roster of 45-53 veterans, then that could leave room for 15-21 newcomers for base game.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,819
But Smash can't simply do just that. You can't cut Spronglo Beezu. He's the sole representative of his franchise and without him, that popular franchise would have nothing. And hey, even if playing Spronglo is like having your foot blown off with a landmine, you may still love the franchise and the character in that franchise, just not in Smash.
Hero is in this post...and I don't like it.

Here's a fun nonsense hypothetical. If ALL current third parties were instead first party nintendo IPs, how would you view their series representation? in terms of stages, music, characters ATs/items etc and their timing of being introduced to Smash.
A lot of them would be considered severely lacking.

Series like Sonic, Metal Gear, Mega Man and Street Fighter are Zelda/Metroid-level franchises, and should have 4-5 characters by now.

If Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest were 1P, they should have 6-8 characters, and FE should have, like, 2.

and then Capcom and the Street Fighter fans just look at each other and go, "........****, he's going to be a mainstay in future games now, isn't he?"
I kinda wish he had been.

If Rufus had been in SF5, they might not have ruined Birdie in that game.

By the way, how many newcomers do you expect in the base game (excluding Echo Fighters)? Assuming it's a brand new game, of course.
With EiH2? 6. Without EiH? 10-12.

15+ is straight up delulu. You're never going to get that many base newcomers again now that DLC is such a huge important part of Smash.
 

Lukingordex

No Custom Titles Allowed
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
3,074
Switch FC
SW-6444-7862-9014
I think the ballot should be forgotten at this point. It's a 10 year old poll, opinions on characters have changed a lot through the years. Many most requested characters right now either didn't existed at all (like Gen 8 or 9 Pokémon, Xenoblade 3 characters, many indie characters like Hollow knight, Hades etc.) or were not really relevent (like Crash Bandicoot for example). Besides, it's not very true that Ultimate didn't used the ballot for the newcomers and only used it for the veterans. While it was never stayed officially, I'm pretty confident that Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Hero, Banjo and Sora (this one is confirmed) were chosen on the ballot (of course there was probably other factors, but I'm sure those characters were all very high).
Man... I remember at the time I was so stupid. My 18 years old mind just didn't take the ballot seriously and voted for Miles Edgeworth just for the "lulz", even though I already knew back then that my most wanted character by far was Crash Bandicoot. I know its like just one vote but it still feels like a big punch on my face whenever I remember I did such a stupid thing.
 
Last edited:

GoldenYuiitusin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2024
Messages
1,935
Location
Questioning my existence while asleep
Man... I remember at the time I was so stupid. My 18 years old mind just didn't take the ballot seriously and voted for Miles Edgeworth just for the "lulz", even though I already knew back then that my most wanted character by far was Crash Bandicoot. I know its like just one vote but it still feels like a big punch on my face whenever I remember I did such a stupid thing.
Could be worse.

You could have been like me and voted for Waluigi. 😔
 

SPEN18

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
2,416
Location
MI, USA
I could have sworn that it was already determined that the Ballot was meant as a "well" to pick characters rather than being the end-all, be-all of 'if you have a TON of votes, your choice gets in'.
Right, officially, no guarantee was ever given that characters with more votes would get in first, or that the top vote-getters would definitely get in at all. And, of course, it would've been a bad idea to give a guarantee like that because of potential issues with feasibility, licensing, and other roster construction concerns.
Though we did end up getting the #1 voted character in Sora, and while the wording about Banjo is apparently unclear it would be no surprise at all if some of the characters we got, like Banjo or K. Rool for example, were among the top 10 or even 5 in overall votes. So while there were no guarantees, it's more than simply a glorified suggestion box, and it seems very likely that raw vote totals played a big role in who we got, even if not as straightforwardly as simply going off the list in order.
 

BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
That creator is also on this forum so let's avoid opening up that can of worms again.
I think you meant "so let's try to be constructive about something that took a lot of thought and effort despite our differing opinions about a video game", but I'll take it. The fact that the video is striking a nerve with people and making them disgruntled enough to carry it across the internet means it's at least resonating - I honestly view it more as proof positive that the community is largely not ready for cuts to the roster at all. If the bar for acceptable speculation is League Of Legends representation and Yakuza karaoke songs, yeah - I'm gonna look like I'm playing the heel when I throw in my 2 cents. Sorry - consider the can of worms re-closed.
 

BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
I saw this like, Really annoying "Making Smash 6" video that was just "New game bad, Old game good" for like an hour.
Like this dude is doing stuff like changing Sonic to his genesis design for no reason and cutting the entire Xenoblade series.
To answer constructively - thanks for watching. I kept plenty of new characters and cut many old ones - Steve, Inkling, ARMS rep, etc. stayed and Jigglypuff, Sheik, Ice Climbers, among other old fighters got cut. Beyond my roster - I find it frustrating that the idea that taking a more historically-angled approach (with, naturally, older / long-running series having more of it to represent) is treated as an abstract, personal reading of the material - when it's textually present in Smash beyond any reasonable doubt. Sakurai has stated this - and I think the care here is genuinely what separates the series from feeling hollow like a Multiversus or Fortnite. No doubt, there are marketing aspects and corporate aspects to consider - but that's not for me to consider, that's for me to resent - I'm a fan, not a marketing exec.

As far as Sonic - that was a two-second comment of preference. But also, I do think people underestimate the shadow (no pun intended) that the Genesis era casts over the series - even SEGA seems pretty keen on continuously going back to the well on Classic Sonic. At the end of the day - it's a costume swap - but, I think this idea that the Genesis era isn't the only thing separating Sonic from being the cultural equivalent of Ty the Tasmanian Tiger has gone way too far - it's also directly relevant to why Sonic was a dream pick for many in the first place. The Genesis vs. SNES moment in time is the specific reason Mario vs. Sonic is even a conversation.

Xenoblade's newest numbered entry sold less than the port of Pikmin 3 to the Switch - it sold even less than ARMS which is universally considered a flop that shouldn't be revisited. Your DQ profile picture would lead me to believe you know enough about JRPGs to see through the zealotry surrounding this series' importance. Will it get cut? No - of course not. But the number of people advocating for 4 - 5 Xenoblade slots, or treating continuous additions to the roster as a given, are either superfans or have internalized marketing to an extreme extent. There's like 3 - 4 fanbases within Smash that feel like their pet franchise should constitute 10% of the roster and this is just the latest version of that, so I went the other direction.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,945
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
So, question.

One that I'm lifting from an Eventhubs article actually: Are "essential" characters becoming a problem for fighting game rosters?

We kinda sorta touch on this every now and again but it's moreso in relation to people not being able to decide on who is essential. I just want to focus on the main question without going into individual characters.

Is it more important to maintain legacy or to introduce fresh faces?
The answer here is "yes", and that's kinda the problem. You can't make a good sequel title without preserving the legacy characters (unless your series specifically doesn't do this, which pretty much just doesn't happen), but you also need space for fresh faces to make the game feel new.

I suspect that we'll have a huge problem with it for the next Smash game, but mellow out once we know what to expect.


Xenoblade's newest numbered entry sold less than the port of Pikmin 3 to the Switch - it sold even less than ARMS which is universally considered a flop that shouldn't be revisited.
Eeeeh? 1.6 Million copies is nothing to sneeze at. It's also pretty normal for sequels on the same console to sell less than their predecessors. Splatoon 3, sold less than Splatoon 2, Fire Emblem Engage sold way less than Fire Emblem: Three Houses, Bayonetta 2 and 3 both sold less than the first, etc.

Also, ARMS is in no way considered a flop. It objectively sold really well, especially for a new IP. The problems people have with its impact is its gameplay, and the lack of momentum of its initial popularity. The latter of which is just kind of what happens when you ignore it for almost a full decade to work on Mario Kart.
 

BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
Name them.
The fact that I don't have to for anyone to know what I'm talking about probably speaks louder than finger-pointing would. I don't even want to blame the fanbases because I think it's something that arises out of the way certain series themselves operate - rotating protagonists, a larger-than average number of characters present within the franchise itself, stuff like this - the way this stuff has been handled has set a bad precedent (imo). Hero handled Dragon Quest spectacularly and with grace. One character that manages to represent the larger series as a whole really well (barring only 4 true costume swaps - but I can only ask for so much). Not to say it could be done this easily in every case, but something more akin to that should be the goal when possible, imo. Cover the most ground with the least amount of space taken up - that way there's room for other stuff. That's how I've always viewed it, even for franchises I'm terminally obsessed with. I would be just as burnt over Slime getting added as a second DQ rep as I would be about +1 character to x franchise that I don't care about. Less is more sometimes. All just my opinion of course.
 

Thegameandwatch

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 21, 2024
Messages
532
Also, ARMS is in no way considered a flop. It objectively sold really well, especially for a new IP. The problems people have with its impact is its gameplay, and the lack of momentum of its initial popularity. The latter of which is just kind of what happens when you ignore it for almost a full decade to work on Mario Kart.
ARMS sells being somewhat low compared to other 2017 games is also mostly because most of the reported sales were in the first 2 years compared to other games at the time that had more continuous sales after the first year.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
23,376
Location
Scotland
To answer constructively - thanks for watching. I kept plenty of new characters and cut many old ones - Steve, Inkling, ARMS rep, etc. stayed and Jigglypuff, Sheik, Ice Climbers, among other old fighters got cut. Beyond my roster - I find it frustrating that the idea that taking a more historically-angled approach (with, naturally, older / long-running series having more of it to represent) is treated as an abstract, personal reading of the material - when it's textually present in Smash beyond any reasonable doubt. Sakurai has stated this - and I think the care here is genuinely what separates the series from feeling hollow like a Multiversus or Fortnite. No doubt, there are marketing aspects and corporate aspects to consider - but that's not for me to consider, that's for me to resent - I'm a fan, not a marketing exec.

As far as Sonic - that was a two-second comment of preference. But also, I do think people underestimate the shadow (no pun intended) that the Genesis era casts over the series - even SEGA seems pretty keen on continuously going back to the well on Classic Sonic. At the end of the day - it's a costume swap - but, I think this idea that the Genesis era isn't the only thing separating Sonic from being the cultural equivalent of Ty the Tasmanian Tiger has gone way too far - it's also directly relevant to why Sonic was a dream pick for many in the first place. The Genesis vs. SNES moment in time is the specific reason Mario vs. Sonic is even a conversation.

Xenoblade's newest numbered entry sold less than the port of Pikmin 3 to the Switch - it sold even less than ARMS which is universally considered a flop that shouldn't be revisited. Your DQ profile picture would lead me to believe you know enough about JRPGs to see through the zealotry surrounding this series' importance. Will it get cut? No - of course not. But the number of people advocating for 4 - 5 Xenoblade slots, or treating continuous additions to the roster as a given, are either superfans or have internalized marketing to an extreme extent. There's like 3 - 4 fanbases within Smash that feel like their pet franchise should constitute 10% of the roster and this is just the latest version of that, so I went the other direction.
when did we all agree ARMS was a flop? I recall it being among the top 20 best selling switch games for a while and I recall everyone being really enthusiastic about it
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
78,487
Location
somewhere in Canada
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
Calling ARMS a flop when it’s one of the rare fighting games to sell units in the millions without being one of the majorly famous franchises of the genre (Smash, Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, etc.) feels like a very short-sighted point of view to me.

Sure, it sold less than most of what Nintendo threw in 2017 but new fighting games IPs and/or games with a more unique control scheme (with ARMS being both) don’t always take off all that well.

ARMS has problems, but low sales is not one of them.
 
Last edited:

BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
Deliberately missing the point, but fair to point out, as I walked into it. Ignore me calling ARMS a flop in the post and then consider what I was getting at. If anything, the more we hype up ARMS and praise it, the more what I was actually talking about (overstated necessity of further Xenoblade reps) becomes clear. Wouldn't ARMS getting newcomers take precedence? Wouldn't ARMS be one of Nintendo's "key IP"? If these are things being said somewhere - I haven't seen it. The only reason I drew sales comparisons at all is to point out the dissonance here - in response to being called insane for not equating Xenoblade to a premier Nintendo IP (which it clearly isn't).
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
23,376
Location
Scotland
Deliberately missing the point, but fair to point out, as I walked into it. Ignore me calling ARMS a flop in the post and then consider what I was getting at. If anything, the more we hype up ARMS and praise it, the more what I was actually talking about (overstated necessity of further Xenoblade reps) becomes clear. Wouldn't ARMS getting newcomers take precedence? Wouldn't ARMS be one of Nintendo's "key IP"? If these are things being said somewhere - I haven't seen it. The only reason I drew sales comparisons at all is to point out the dissonance here - in response to being called insane for not equating Xenoblade to a premier Nintendo IP (which it clearly isn't).
yes but you also said the people of this forum aren’t ready for cuts. which does make it sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,945
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Deliberately missing the point, but fair to point out, as I walked into it. Ignore me calling ARMS a flop in the post and then consider what I was getting at. If anything, the more we hype up ARMS and praise it, the more what I was actually talking about (overstated necessity of further Xenoblade reps) becomes clear. Wouldn't ARMS getting newcomers take precedence? Wouldn't ARMS be one of Nintendo's "key IP"? If these are things being said somewhere - I haven't seen it. The only reason I drew sales comparisons at all is to point out the dissonance here - in response to being called insane for not equating Xenoblade to a premier Nintendo IP (which it clearly isn't).
Sales aren't everything. ARMS did extremely well, but it's hard to be a "key IP" with only a single 8 year old game to your name. As for people wanting/not wanting more ARMS characters, they're usually either seen as fun clone ideas that get to play with some of the best character designs we've seen from Nintendo, but there's a large group that hates Min Min from a gameplay standpoint, and absolutely does not want more Min Mins. As for what to expect, it's a huge question mark, as ARMS's future is just as unknown. Min Min will probably stay though.

Xenoblade Chronicles is also doing well for itself, having enough impact from the jump to get Nintendo to localize it, and becoming almost mainstream in terms of popularity from there. Noah and Mio aren't suggested or predicted because people feel they're necessary or obligatory, it's because people just really like them, or think that Xenoblade Chronicles 3 did well enough to justify their inclusion.

I don't think anyone really believes that Xenoblade Chronicles should take over the roster, but with a story driven series that has a knack for getting players to connect to its characters, they're going to be pretty darn popular requests from here on out. At the moment Noah and Mio are at the forefront since they seem the most realistic, but Elma has a fairly sizable fanbase as well, and Xenoblade Chronicles X wasn't nearly as popular as the mainline titles.

I get why this doesn't really gel with you; your view of the roster seems to be pretty utilitarian to the point where you actively don't want characters that you enjoy for the sake of balanced representation, but it is a pretty uncommon mindset. Most people here just want what they like, and use stuff like merrit to gague what's actually realistic/a good idea.

TLDR: Xenoblade Chronicles doesn't absolutely need more reps at the moment. In fact, most people agree that adding Noah and Mio would be a bad call even if they think that one of the two is likely or justified. For the most part, people just like Xenoblade Chronicles characters.

I think we've already discussed this before, but…

Do you think the Switch 2 will have an ARMS sequel?
Yes, just not immediately.
 

BritishGuy54

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
939
Everyone has a different perspective on what Smash Bros. could, should, and must be.

Factors like relevancy, sales, seniority, global appeal, marketing, fan demand, moveset potential, and the ‘Nintendo Connection’ aren’t clear cut, especially for Smash Bros or what are ‘premier franchises’. The likelihood is that it will never be clear cut. They are all factors. They are in many ways, contradictory.

I don’t think anyone is ready for cuts. Even those who say they are, likely aren’t. It’s never simple. It heavily depends on what factors you take into account when building a roster, and for some, it’s just a collection of faces they happen to like and nothing more.

Nostalgia has shifted. The fact is, the kids who grew up with the GameCube, DS, and Wii are adults now. Those games aren’t as easy to express their passion for as the NES/SNES era, especially compared to the indie boom of the 2010’s.

And again, the Switch is coming towards a decade old. Let’s not forget how successful this system is and how many people have nostalgia for it.

The Switch era is undeniably huge for many franchises. Series like Metroid, Kirby, Pikmin, and Xenoblade have hit heights they could’ve only dreamed of after the Wii U. The Switch 2 could see the same effect for long dormant series like Donkey Kong or Star Fox.

Personally, I think a roster hinging on ‘legacy’ or ‘timelessness’ again, whilst cutting a huge part of the roster is a hard sell to me.

After the Switch era, I think Nintendo leaning more towards their own series (and the Switch as a whole), especially in the base game, is a good move. That gives more reason to revisit Ultimate and a newer Smash game. Keeping a new game different, new, whilst keeping a good portion of veterans is the best call without feeling too bloated.

Yeah, we might lose fan favourites or third party icons, but it’s less severe than just swapping fan demand for fan demand, or a big third party for… another big third party.

Smash is very much a ‘helping hand’ for many series, both first and third party. But it can’t do it forever.
 
Top Bottom