Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[BuckleyTim]

I think the Mario kart discussion is minimizing the fact that the Wii u was already dead by the time Mario kart graced it. MK is beloved, but I don't think it can revive a corpse; casuals didn't care or didnt know about the U, and hardcore fans already made their choice for the gen with Xbox and PS4 (PC and Wii u was an option, but while I did that I was clearly in the minority).
MK8 still sold Wii Us (though again it couldn't save it), but the game does it's job when the console it's on has momentum. While the switch 2 needs more than Mario kart to have a successful first years, it already has enough momentum from the switch (that crucially hasn't dispersed like the Wii's did) that they could honestly get away with it. Obviously it wouldn't be satisfactory to anyone and they pretty clearly won't do that, but if worst comes to worst they could get away with it being a Mario kart machine for like 2 or 3 months until another big game comes out for it.

 

[fogbadge]

Fingers crossed that Gen 10 will be great. At the very worst, I’ll still enjoy the initial playthrough just for discovering new Pokemon as I play. It’s just frustrating that the series could be so much more than it is. At least the new Digimon game is looking cool. I really liked Cyber Sleuth and Hacker’s Memory and this new game is even getting an English dub.

yes I love finding the new Pokemon as well. I’m also looking forward to Time Stranger, being a huge fan of digimon helps. btw I made a digimon thread if you hear any updates

Something that kind of frustrates me is how much games sell on name brand alone despite their quality. For example, Xenoblade games look like they have a ton more effort put into them than Pokemon but sell only a small fraction of what Pokemon does. What incentive do these bigger games like Pokemon have to get better if people are going to buy them regardless of quality?

Well you kinda answered your own question there. It is brand recognition. The original games were so huge they’re still able to sell stuff on that success. Although you do have me wondering what a Pokemon game by the xenoblade devs would be like.

It’s also a bit weird that no other company has really gone all out with a big monster collecting and battling game to try to rival Pokemon. Most of the other games in the genre are pretty low budget. Maybe it’s for that exact reason because they don’t have Pokémon’s name brand and they’d be very unlikely to sell as well. Palworld seems to have done well for itself even if it’s not really the same genre.

I suppose it’s much the same way none of the other platform fighters are directly competing with smash. It’s just too big. Still monster collectors still have had some decent success so at least it’s not a complete on man show. Now if we could just revive yokai watch

 

[Gengar84]

yes I love finding the new Pokemon as well. I’m also looking forward to Time Stranger, being a huge fan of digimon helps. btw I made a digimon thread if you hear any updates



Well you kinda answered your own question there. It is brand recognition. The original games were so huge they’re still able to sell stuff on that success. Although you do have me wondering what a Pokemon game by the xenoblade devs would be like.



I suppose it’s much the same way none of the other platform fighters are directly competing with smash. It’s just too big. Still monster collectors still have had some decent success so at least it’s not a complete on man show. Now if we could just revive yokai watch

It’s never going to happen but I’d love to see a Pokemon game developed by a collaboration of Monolith Soft and Atlus. Monolith is amazing at crafting really engaging worlds to explore while Atlus already specializes in a sort of monster collecting and makes really great stories and combat. Both Persona and Xenoblade have amazing music so either would be awesome in that department. Again, never going to happen but it would be cool.

 

[Oracle Link]

Did you forget about Lance?

wasnt he just leader of the top 4 in gen 1?
like the first time we hear about a champion is with blue!
like the fact you have to fight a champ to become one was a twist in the kanto games!
Does that make sense? Not too much but still!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Although you do have me wondering what a Pokemon game by the xenoblade devs would be like.

For a while there there were Pokémon fans who genuinely believed that MonolithSoft should handle Pokémon instead of Game Freak going forward. lol

With their storytelling and skill in environmental design, I wouldn't doubt that their take on Pokémon Legends: Arceus and similar concepts would go super hard, but I don't think Pokéblade Chronicles is quite the answer to fixing Pokémon.

Did you forget about Lance?

Lance is the champion in Gen II. I don't think they ever said who the champion was in Gen I before Blue.

 

[Gengar84]

For a while there there were Pokémon fans who genuinely believed that MonolithSoft should handle Pokémon instead of Game Freak going forward. lol

With their storytelling and skill in environmental design, I wouldn't doubt that their take on Pokémon Legends: Arceus and similar concepts would go super hard, but I don't think Pokéblade Chronicles is quite the answer to fixing Pokémon.


Lance is the champion in Gen II. I don't think they ever said who the champion was in Gen I before Blue.

Yeah, I think Atlus excels at where Monolith Soft falls short and vice versa. I think the dream game is a collaboration between the two with each bringing their strengths.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, I think Atlus excels at where Monolith Soft falls short and vice versa.

Atlus?

 

[Perkilator]

I think at most, Monolith Soft should only help Game Freak where they’re struggling instead of replacing them.

 

[fogbadge]

For a while there there were Pokémon fans who genuinely believed that MonolithSoft should handle Pokémon instead of Game Freak going forward. lol

With their storytelling and skill in environmental design, I wouldn't doubt that their take on Pokémon Legends: Arceus and similar concepts would go super hard, but I don't think Pokéblade Chronicles is quite the answer to fixing Pokémon.

It might look fancier but I’m not sure the story would be better

 

[Gengar84]

It might look fancier but I’m not sure the story would be better

Yeah, I wouldn’t say story is Monolith’s strong suit. I love the games for their exploration and music and the combat can be fun once you figure it out but the stories can be kind of confusing and convoluted.

Atlus?

Yeah, the developers of Persona and Metaphor among other things. They’re known for making great stories and characters with fun turn based combat systems. Their games never really have big explorable environments like Xenoblade though and they mostly just stick to a few hub areas. My pipe dream game is to use the strengths of Persona and Xenoblade to make a Pokemon game. I know that’s never going to happen but it would be fun to see what they’d come up with.

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah, I wouldn’t say story is Monolith’s strong suit. I love the games for their exploration and music and the combat can be fun once you figure it out but the stories can be kind of confusing and convoluted.


Yeah, the developers of Persona and Metaphor among other things. They’re known for making great stories and characters with fun turn based combat systems. Their games never really have big explorable environments like Xenoblade though and they mostly just stick to a few hub areas. My pipe dream game is to use the strengths of Persona and Xenoblade to make a Pokemon game. I know that’s never going to happen but it would be fun to see what they’d come up with.

Y'all just don't get the stories if you think they are confusing or convoluted.

 

[Gengar84]

Y'all just don't get the stories if you think they are confusing or convoluted.

I understood the first game well but I got more and more confused with each game. The DLC of Xenoblade 3 didn’t make a ton of sense to me. I’ve beaten every Xenoblade game other than X (I got overwhelmed with all the resource management at the time). I still have a lot of fun with them even if I don’t fully understand what’s going on. I get the general gist of what’s happening but do get lost in the finer details.

Same deal with Kingdom Hearts for me. None of the games from either series were as confusing for me as the story in Wild Arms 5 though. Final Fantasy XIII was also kind of hard to follow. Maybe I’m just not great at following more complex narratives. I think I just prefer stories that are a little more straight forward.

 

[RouffWestie]

It’s never going to happen but I’d love to see a Pokemon game developed by a collaboration of Monolith Soft and Atlus. Monolith is amazing at crafting really engaging worlds to explore while Atlus already specializes in a sort of monster collecting and makes really great stories and combat. Both Persona and Xenoblade have amazing music so either would be awesome in that department. Again, never going to happen but it would be cool.

Alternatively, Atlus could pull a 400 IQ move and instead team up with Monolith to revive Robopon and basically do a Palworld 2.0, without the lawsuits.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of JRPGs, I just beat the main story of Granblue Fantasy: Relink this week. Fun game but I get the feeling they expect you to have some prior knowledge to fully appreciate everything. The main characters are in your party from the start and you don’t really get much introduction to them beyond voiced stories. I watched the anime but have no prior experience with the franchise.

There are a lot of cool characters that could make for fun Smash fighters. I know there was an old fake leak about Katalina for Ultimate. That could have been fun since she’s among my favorite characters in the game. The other characters I liked were Perceval, Rosetta, Vaseraga, Rackam, and Siegfried. Not sure if any of them has much a chance for Smash considering Granblue’s lack of Nintendo presence but I’d be happy to see them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I understood the first game well but I got more and more confused with each game. The DLC of Xenoblade 3 didn’t make a ton of sense to me. I’ve beaten every Xenoblade game other than X (I got overwhelmed with all the resource management at the time). I still have a lot of fun with them even if I don’t fully understand what’s going on. I get the general gist of what’s happening but do get lost in the finer details.

Huh...There is the whole deal with the Zohar (which seems to be a computer capable of creating several different realities) running in the background, but the stories of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and 3 don't quite require the knowledge of it to understand.

Spoiler: Vague Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers

2 doesn't really get into the Zohar for the bulk of its runtime, only becoming relevant when Rex and Pyra finally meet god and ask him why the world is the way it is. They get their explanation (which is more for lore fans than the story itself) and then go stop Malos from destroying everything.

Spoiler: Less vague Xenoblade Chronicles 3 spoilers

It's more relevant for 3, but all you have to understand there is that the worlds of 1 and 2 were set to collide for a short amount of time, creating the third game's setting. Melia and Nia figured this out, so they build a machine to keep the worlds locked in that state. Problem was that the result degrades over time, and requires the people that live there to stagnate, constantly being reborn again and again fighting a war all to uphold a world that doesn't allow them to do anything other than kill each other.

 

[Gengar84]

Huh...There is the whole deal with the Zohar (which seems to be a computer capable of creating several different realities) running in the background, but the stories of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and 3 don't quite require the knowledge of it to understand.

Spoiler: Vague Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers

2 doesn't really get into the Zohar for the bulk of its runtime, only becoming relevant when Rex and Pyra finally meet god and ask him why the world is the way it is. They get their explanation (which is more for lore fans than the story itself) and then go stop Malos from destroying everything.

Spoiler: Less vague Xenoblade Chronicles 3 spoilers

It's more relevant for 3, but all you have to understand there is that the worlds of 1 and 2 were set to collide for a short amount of time, creating the third game's setting. Melia and Nia figured this out, so they build a machine to keep the worlds locked in that state. Problem was that the result degrades over time, and requires the people that live there to stagnate, constantly being reborn again and again fighting a war all to uphold a world that doesn't allow them to do anything other than kill each other.

Thanks, that helps. I did understand parts of the story but never really made the Zohar connection. I think Xenoblade 2 made sense for most of the game but I started getting a bit lost towards the end. I think the most confusing part of 3 were the villains. I still generally followed the story enough to enjoy it. Xenoblade 3’s DLC is where I got completely lost and didn’t really understand anything anymore. Still fun for the other stuff but I just didn’t get the story.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if, hypothetically speaking, Mario Kart 9 and Pokemon Gen 10 come out and are absolutely terrible to the point that no one can really argue it? I don’t think that scenario is likely but it could be a big part of why a console might fail.

If Pokemon somehow manages to flop beyond redemption, that console is ****ing over, tbh

wasnt he just leader of the top 4 in gen 1?
like the first time we hear about a champion is with blue!
like the fact you have to fight a champ to become one was a twist in the kanto games!
Does that make sense? Not too much but still!

Nevermind, I got mixed up with Gen 2 lmao

 

[Shinuto]

I understood the first game well but I got more and more confused with each game. The DLC of Xenoblade 3 didn’t make a ton of sense to me. I’ve beaten every Xenoblade game other than X (I got overwhelmed with all the resource management at the time). I still have a lot of fun with them even if I don’t fully understand what’s happening. Same deal with Kingdom Hearts for me. None of the games from either series were as confusing for me as the story in Wild Arms 5 though. Final Fantasy XIII was also kind of hard to follow. Maybe I’m just not great at following more complex narratives.

Huh...There is the whole deal with the Zohar (which seems to be a computer capable of creating several different realities) running in the background, but the stories of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and 3 don't quite require the knowledge of it to understand.

Spoiler: Vague Xenoblade Chronicles 2 spoilers

2 doesn't really get into the Zohar for the bulk of its runtime, only becoming relevant when Rex and Pyra finally meet god and ask him why the world is the way it is. They get their explanation (which is more for lore fans than the story itself) and then go stop Malos from destroying everything.

Spoiler: Less vague Xenoblade Chronicles 3 spoilers

It's more relevant for 3, but all you have to understand there is that the worlds of 1 and 2 were set to collide for a short amount of time, creating the third game's setting. Melia and Nia figured this out, so they build a machine to keep the worlds locked in that state. Problem was that the result degrades over time, and requires the people that live there to stagnate, constantly being reborn again and again fighting a war all to uphold a world that doesn't allow them to do anything other than kill each other.

No no no your explanation of 3 is wrong.

 

[BrawlX10]

Speaking of JRPGs, I just beat the main story of Granblue Fantasy: Relink this week. Fun game but I get the feeling they expect you to have some prior knowledge to fully appreciate everything. The main characters are in your party from the start and you don’t really get much introduction to them beyond voiced stories. I watched the anime but have no prior experience with the franchise.

There are a lot of cool characters that could make for fun Smash fighters. I know there was an old fake leak about Katalina for Ultimate. That could have been fun since she’s among my favorite characters in the game. The other characters I liked were Perceval, Rosetta, Vaseraga, Rackam, and Siegfried. Not sure if any of them has much a chance for Smash considering Granblue’s lack of Nintendo presence but I’d be happy to see them.

I think adding a Granblue Fantasy representative would be really cool, though I'm not sure how likely it actually is.

Nintendo has connections with Cygames (or at least did before the Dragalia Lost shutdown), but we don't know if those connections still exist in a post-Dragalia Lost world. I would assume so, but you never know what happened behind the scenes.

Another issue is that the Granblue franchise has had no Nintendo appearances, which might hinder its chances. Additionally, we don't know Sakurai's stance on including characters from online-only or gacha games; he might have reservations about representing those types of characters for various reasons as playable fighters.

So, while it might seem that Granblue has low chances given all this, I still think there's a decent possibility. There are just some potential hurdles, and many of them are uncertainties.

 

[DarthEnderX]

and hardcore fans already made their choice for the gen with Xbox and PS4 (PC and Wii u was an option, but while I did that I was clearly in the minority).

That hasn't been a thing since the Wii. Hardcore fans don't choose between XBox, PS, PC or Nintendo. They choose between XBox, PS or PC...in addition to Nintendo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

No no no your explanation of 3 is wrong.

Are you gonna elaborate on why it’s wrong or just leave it at that?

 

[Gengar84]

No no no your explanation of 3 is wrong.

Lol well now I feel better about being confused. I guess I wasn’t the only one

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Additionally, we don't know Sakurai's stance on including characters from online-only or gacha games; he might have reservations about representing those types of characters for various reasons as playable fighters.

Or he might be entirely cool with it since mobile gaming has a strong casual crowd. Fire Emblem Heroes got a remix in Ultimate so it’s not crazy to assume he’s fine with it.

And while Splatoon is not entirely online-only, all the weapons Inkling uses are so I don’t see why he would have reservations about those kinds of games.

 

[Shinuto]

Are you gonna elaborate on why it’s wrong or just leave it at that?

I can't I'm at work ATM so a long post isn't possible atm

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I can't I'm at work ATM so a long post isn't possible atm

… Yeah, that’s fair enough.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I wouldn’t say story is Monolith’s strong suit. I love the games for their exploration and music and the combat can be fun once you figure it out but the stories can be kind of confusing and convoluted.

I have a knack of sort for being able to follow convoluted and I'd say xenoblade's main strength is in setting and world building. but I think pokemon's lore is pretty solid anyway. but you are right they are good at making worlds you want to explore.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Re: Granblue Fantasy in Smash

I think Granblue strikes a nice little sweetspot where I don’t think it needs a Nintendo appearance to really have a chance in Smash.

As always, a Nintendo appearance helps but I’d say the partnership Cygames and Nintendo had by making Dragalia Lost already gives an open door.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Are you gonna elaborate on why it’s wrong or just leave it at that?

It's likely the finer details. Unless I completely misinterpreted the story:

Spoiler: More Xenoblade Chronicles 3 stuff

Melia and Nia did create the machine, it did have something to do with the worlds colliding, Mobius Z (the machine's AI) does keep the worlds together because he thinks that's what the people want, and doing so does require the endless war, and even then it's not perfect, as random chunks of the land randomly disappear anyway*.

*Interlinking can cause Annihilation Events too, but they also happen randomly as seen near the beginning of the story.

 

[Gengar84]

What I really want to see is a Pokemon game set in a fantasy world (maybe ultra space?) That plays more like a traditional story based RPG like the classic Final Fantasy games. Every battle would be a triple battle and the combat mechanics would be tweaked so battles flowed more like those RPGs and not everything was KO’d in a couple attacks. You could have different Pokemon take the role of different class types, like Chansey could be a white mage, Weavile could be a thief, and so on. I think it would be better as more of a side game kind of like Colosseum or XD on the Gamecube but that would be fun.

Re: Granblue Fantasy in Smash

I think Granblue strikes a nice little sweetspot where I don’t think it needs a Nintendo appearance to really have a chance in Smash.

As always, a Nintendo appearance helps but I’d say the partnership Cygames and Nintendo had by making Dragalia Lost already gives an open door.

By that same token, I’m curious if Nintendo’s partnership with Tencent to make Pokemon Unite might help the odds of seeing a League of Legends character in Smash. Pokémon Unite was made by a different subsidiary and not Riot themselves but it does establish a relationship with Riot’s parent company, which might help negotiations.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I think at most, Monolith Soft should only help Game Freak where they’re struggling instead of replacing them.

Monolith Soft have helped with development on Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing.

… Is it possible they’re helping on 3D Mario?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Of course it would. But it wasnt' able to support the WiiU all on it's own. As evidenced by the fact that...it didn't.

Because at that point it was too late. Almost 2 years in when the system desperately needed a killer app like MK.

Remember MK8 in 2014 months after the release PS4/Xbox One and less than year before the NX was announced. If Mario Kart 8 was Day One/Launch Season like Switch, U would've sold gangbusters.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

What I really want to see is a Pokemon game set in a fantasy world (maybe ultra space?) That plays more like a traditional story based RPG like the classic Final Fantasy games. Every battle would be a triple battle and the combat mechanics would be tweaked so battles flowed more like those RPGs and not everything was KO’d in a couple attacks. You could have different Pokemon take the role of different class types, like Chansey could be a white mage, Weavile could be a thief, and so on. I think it would be better as more of a side game kind of like Colosseum or XD on the Gamecube but that would be fun.

I'd be interested in that. Even if we don't get it, I'd like to see more double battles, or even triple battles, happen in the stories of the main games; SwSh and SV were terribly lacking in them.

 

[Perkilator]

Idk why I’m just now replying to this, but lemme just say: I highly doubt Ultimate will be the end after how much it sold.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd be interested in that. Even if we don't get it, I'd like to see more double battles, or even triple battles, happen in the stories of the main games; SwSh and SV were terribly lacking in them.

I second that. Pokémon Sword/Shield has a grand total of 4 double battles in the entire game, and they're always the most fun of each run.

There's also like, 5 or so multi-battles with Hop, but watching his Wooloo/Dubwool flail about isn't nearly as engaging as strategizing yourself using your own team.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think adding a Granblue Fantasy representative would be really cool, though I'm not sure how likely it actually is.

Nintendo has connections with Cygames (or at least did before the Dragalia Lost shutdown), but we don't know if those connections still exist in a post-Dragalia Lost world. I would assume so, but you never know what happened behind the scenes.

Another issue is that the Granblue franchise has had no Nintendo appearances, which might hinder its chances. Additionally, we don't know Sakurai's stance on including characters from online-only or gacha games; he might have reservations about representing those types of characters for various reasons as playable fighters.

So, while it might seem that Granblue has low chances given all this, I still think there's a decent possibility. There are just some potential hurdles, and many of them are uncertainties.

It would also be unfair for Belgian Smash players, as they would have no way to play Granblue Fantasy legally because loot boxes and gacha games are illegal in Belgium under their anti-gambling laws.

 

[Gengar84]

It would also be unfair for Belgian Smash players, as they would have no way to play Granblue Fantasy legally because loot boxes and gacha games are illegal in Belgium under their anti-gambling laws.

I imagine they could still play Relink but I’m not sure. That game doesn’t really have gacha mechanics and it’s more a traditional action rpg.

 

[NotGenerico]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nintendo got FCC aproval for a wireless Switch 2 controller that seems to be Gamecube-inspired.

I think this might mean that the Switch 2 could have Gamecube games added to the NSO service, which would be pretty neat. I'd imagine this controller will be compatible with the next Smash Bros, too.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Here is something I noticed.

Aside from the likes of Ridley, Isabelle, Inkling and maybe K. Rool, as well as Incineroar, were many base newcomers, echoes included, that were human or humanoid. In other words, they were easier to do. I already talked about how it takes time to make Assist Trophy characters a moveset of their own, and excluding those like Isabelle, who was easier to do and was kind of humanoid, and Inkling, who was kind of humanoid and had time for, (as well as the others who they had time for, humanoid or not), there were not many, if any quadrupeds or non humanoid shaped characters in the base game of Ultimate as newcomers. I can imagine why those like Bandana Dee did not make it in, and the lack of time did not allow for those like Waluigi and Geno, who were more humanoid, with Geno being smaller if that means anything, to get in with an original moveset.

Still, yeah, many or all characters in Ultimate’s base game who were newcomers were human/humanoid, and with the lack of time from “Everyone is Here”, maybe next Smash Bros. game will have more non humanoid characters. Heck, even Ultimate’s DLC was more human or humanoid in terms of characters.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Nintendo got FCC aproval for a wireless Switch 2 controller that seems to be Gamecube-inspired.

I think this might mean that the Switch 2 could have Gamecube games added to the NSO service, which would be pretty neat. I'd imagine this controller will be compatible with the next Smash Bros, too.

Imagine if they did Gamecube online and still refuse to acknowledge the Gamecube Pokemon games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It would also be unfair for Belgian Smash players, as they would have no way to play Granblue Fantasy legally because loot boxes and gacha games are illegal in Belgium under their anti-gambling laws.

Relink and the Versus series are actively sold in Belgium since they lack the gacha parts. They’re not completely locked out of everything Granblue