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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Among Waddle Dees

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
492
I think the ballot should be forgotten at this point. It's a 10 year old poll, opinions on characters have changed a lot through the years. Many most requested characters right now either didn't existed at all (like Gen 8 or 9 Pokémon, Xenoblade 3 characters, many indie characters like Hollow knight, Hades etc.) or were not really relevent (like Crash Bandicoot for example). Besides, it's not very true that Ultimate didn't used the ballot for the newcomers and only used it for the veterans. While it was never stayed officially, I'm pretty confident that Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont, Hero, Banjo and Sora (this one is confirmed) were chosen on the ballot (of course there was probably other factors, but I'm sure those characters were all very high).
The fact we've been coasting on the same selection of characters for the last 10 years is not something that should have happened even in the context of Ultimate's total run, I would argue. The timeframe the ballot had been used in was quite awful, with somewhat poor third-party support from Nintendo, and not many first-parties to choose from, due to a pattern of including just classic and new faces. It feels like the only exceptions to the rule in the last decade have been due to the ballot, but Nintendo was also EXTREMELY unclear how the ballot was even supposed to work. If they had intended to just tally the votes, why did they market it as a suggestion box, asking us why the character should be a fighter? I consider that entire era of Smash a scandal, which is why them basically running with it for so long has been highly degrading.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,639
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Somewhere Out There
I think Smash newcomers/veteran selection should be more on individual characters rather than a “celebration of gaming” this-or-that-deserves-more achievement system. You can’t really play as ”best selling IP” or “impactful series” and as much as Smash represents, it’s a game (with gameplay) first and foremost, not a listicle.
 
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BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
I get why this doesn't really gel with you; your view of the roster seems to be pretty utilitarian to the point where you actively don't want characters that you enjoy for the sake of balanced representation, but it is a pretty uncommon mindset. Most people here just want what they like, and use stuff like merrit to gague what's actually realistic/a good idea.
Yes! 100%. I appreciate you saying this. Maybe I just have a screw loose, but, though it can be fun and silly - I can't say I understand the "I just want what I already like" thing. The majority of people in the West probably didn't know what Fire Emblem was upon picking up Melee - let alone like it - and now look. Knowing that Smash can endear people to things they didn't even know they would like beforehand is powerful - no small responsibility imo. I also understand that talking about it in that more rigid utilitarian way can come across as being a stick in the mud - but it's not the intent. If they listen to fan requests and chatter even a little bit to determine roster picks then it's worth it to try to elevate it above some shallow notion of personal preference (though of course even this entire approach is a preference, but let's not get too meta about it). Anyway - enough about that, you're just the first person on this board to recognize that the approach I'm advocating for is actually an attempt to remove personal bias and not a result of being consumed by it.

As far as ARMS 2 - I definitely think we'll see this happen now that we know for sure the next system also has Joycon. I hope they can knock it out of the park with a sequel because it's a really endearing concept.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,945
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
I regret to inform everyone that roster selection for the next Smash is going to be determined by a character's canonical ability to prepare lasagna.
Kirby is the only veteran on the roster joined by the only newcomer: Chef Kawasaki. You'd think that Peach would be there as well, but it turns out that while she's really good at baking, her attempts at cooking are catastrophic.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,639
Location
Somewhere Out There
Yes! 100%. I appreciate you saying this. Maybe I just have a screw loose, but, though it can be fun and silly - I can't say I understand the "I just want what I already like" thing. The majority of people in the West probably didn't know what Fire Emblem was upon picking up Melee - let alone like it - and now look. Knowing that Smash can endear people to things they didn't even know they would like beforehand is powerful - no small responsibility imo. I also understand that talking about it in that more rigid utilitarian way can come across as being a stick in the mud - but it's not the intent. If they listen to fan requests and chatter even a little bit to determine roster picks then it's worth it to try to elevate it above some shallow notion of personal preference (though of course even this entire approach is a preference, but let's not get too meta about it). Anyway - enough about that, you're just the first person on this board to recognize that the approach I'm advocating for is actually an attempt to remove personal bias and not a result of being consumed by it.

As far as ARMS 2 - I definitely think we'll see this happen now that we know for sure the next system also has Joycon. I hope they can knock it out of the park with a sequel because it's a really endearing concept.
Expanding on representation is a noble goal and one that can definitely be attained by cinching the waist of the veteran roster, but I think it also ties into another type of unsustainable practice that the Smash community is upholding: The focus on playable characters as the only “meaningful” representation. Playable characters are some of the most resource-intensive things in the game, so going scorched earth on the veteran roster to let, say, the Pilotwings 64 character cast see their much-deserved light of day might not be the most development-cost-effective way to go about it. A stage cameo, Assist Trophy or captivating trophy description (Will Pit fight another day?) might also get enough eyes on them. These forms of representation might also be easier to rotate out per game, so the Smash series can cover a broader range of series and the spotlight can shine on series when they are at their most relevant.

Sadly, a change in the fanbase has to happen, since even Assist Trophies are seen as stepping stones to playability. Sakurai has acknowledged before that the playable fighters are the main course of the game, and as long as people aren‘t spurred to be curious about the smaller content in the game, the playable roster continues to be an unsustainable source of salvation for every stakeholder under the sun.

I regret to inform everyone that roster selection for the next Smash is going to be determined by a character's canonical ability to prepare lasagna.
You kid but I would love some Tayce T. representation.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
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Dec 17, 2014
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Nelson340
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Sadly, a change in the fanbase has to happen, since even Assist Trophies are seen as stepping stones to playability. Sakurai has acknowledged before that the playable fighters are the main course of the game, and as long as people aren‘t spurred to be curious about the smaller content in the game, the playable roster continues to be an unsustainable source of salvation for every stakeholder under the sun.
Honestly, you shouldn't blame them when Smash marketing has always focused on fighters and fighters alone. The closest it's gotten to considering playable and non-playable characters as equally valid is the Brawl Dojo's blog posts. Plus in the games themselves, NPCs that aren't bosses are ignored by most Adventure Mode cutscenes.

And of course, more and more people are now playing with items disabled, tournaments or otherwise.
 

BackseatSakurai

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
52
(Will Pit fight another day?)
🫡🫶

Sadly, a change in the fanbase has to happen, since even Assist Trophies are seen as stepping stones to playability. Sakurai has acknowledged before that the playable fighters are the main course of the game, and as long as people aren‘t spurred to be curious about the smaller content in the game, the playable roster continues to be an unsustainable source of salvation for every stakeholder under the sun.
Agreed, honestly. Beyond the roster - Assists being more meaningful, stages casting a wider net, a return of trophies, more single-player bosses - there's definitely a ton that can be done across the board. As much as Lark from Pilotwings 64 has been feverishly requested, probably an instance of a stage being acceptable representation. 😂
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,639
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Somewhere Out There
Honestly, you shouldn't blame them when Smash marketing has always focused on fighters and fighters alone. The closest it's gotten to considering playable and non-playable characters as equally valid is the Brawl Dojo's blog posts. Plus in the games themselves, NPCs that aren't bosses are ignored by most Adventure Mode cutscenes.

And of course, more and more people are now playing with items disabled, tournaments or otherwise.
True, the cause/lead up of this one-sided focus on playability was partially in Nintendo’s hands, but I feel like this is a case of “bell you can’t unring”. Even if the (marketing of a) new Smash game goes all in on new stages and new Assists I think the expectations have been so conditioned to be on the fighters that the fanbase wouldn’t be receptive to it unless we get real cool about some things real quick. So right now the ball is in the fanbase’s hands as well, unless the Smash 6 dev teams shows some guts.

🫡🫶



Agreed, honestly. Beyond the roster - Assists being more meaningful, stages casting a wider net, a return of trophies, more single-player bosses - there's definitely a ton that can be done across the board. As much as Lark from Pilotwings 64 has been feverishly requested, probably an instance of a stage being acceptable representation. 😂
I was always fond of Splatoon for having a mostly new stage list and replacing the specials wholesale in the sequel, while keeping the main weapon list exactly the same. I wouldn’t mind the new Smash having a stagelist, item list and Assist Trophy resevoire that’s 90% new, even if the quantity suffered as a result. I mean hey, if people only care about the playable roster, might as well shake up the rest.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,820
You joke, but unironically - would prefer this over bloat. I know I'm on an island with that one, though.
I'm an 'Everyone is Here!' guy. But if I was FORCED to make cuts, I'd slash it to the bone and make more room for more franchises.

Do you think the Switch 2 will have an ARMS sequel?

I think Smash newcomers/veteran selection should be more on individual characters rather than a “celebration of gaming” this-or-that-deserves-more achievement system.
Hard disagree.

Garfield confirmed
Garfield eats lasagna. He doesn't make it.
 
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Stratos

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,119
I like both Smash Taunts and of course I talk and write about Palutena's Guidance and Codec Conversations. Since no one knows if Snake will return in Super Smash Bros. 6, I can say that Pit will stay and therefore we will definitely have Palutena's Guidance. If all the DLC characters that were in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate also appear in the new Super Smash Bros. as regular characters, I can't wait to see what Pit and Palutena will discuss about each of these characters.
 

Thegameandwatch

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 21, 2024
Messages
532
ngl, I thought Cooking Mama was a first party character for five years
The series was exclusive to the DS and Wii at its peak which is probably why the misconception exists.

I feel the series would have been referenced in Smash by Brawl if it was owned by Nintendo like how other DS games had trophies such as Elite Beat Agents and Hotel Dusk: Room 215.
 
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Louie G.

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
10,206
Location
Rhythm Heaven
In regards to continued use of the Smash Ballot, I think it's a nonissue. Many fans evidently still endorse the same first party characters that they always have, for better or worse, and the growth of social media has made certain third party selections more visible with time. Sakurai has clearly had no issues determining that characters like Sans or Dante are sought after without needing a ballot to back that up. Simply keeping it in mind to substantiate a couple longterm requests like I dunno, Isaac and Geno or something would not be the end of the world nor the exclusive way fan requests are acted on.

Back to that initial first party point though, I feel like most Smash fans have simply not chosen that many contemporary characters to rally behind in the same way they have continued to endorse BWD, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid... Swamp's poll makes it quite apparent that many of these characters are still pretty much top of the line requests. So at least within more dedicated Smash communities, the Ballot is probably still somewhat accurate to community taste. Primed character additions like Tom Nook, Squid Sisters, Oatchi or whoever are probably not relying on this kind of data to be considered in the first place so I don't see it being particularly obtrusive toward a natural roster evolution.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
13,726
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Nelson340
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In regards to continued use of the Smash Ballot, I think it's a nonissue. Many fans evidently still endorse the same first party characters that they always have, for better or worse, and the growth of social media has made certain third party selections more visible with time. Sakurai has clearly had no issues determining that characters like Sans or Dante are sought after without needing a ballot to back that up. Simply keeping it in mind to substantiate a couple longterm requests like I dunno, Isaac and Geno or something would not be the end of the world nor the exclusive way fan requests are acted on.

Back to that initial first party point though, I feel like most Smash fans have simply not chosen that many contemporary characters to rally behind in the same way they have continued to endorse BWD, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid... Swamp's poll makes it quite apparent that many of these characters are still pretty much top of the line requests. So at least within more dedicated Smash communities, the Ballot is probably still somewhat accurate to community taste. Primed character additions like Tom Nook, Squid Sisters, Oatchi or whoever are probably not relying on this kind of data to be considered in the first place so I don't see it being particularly obtrusive toward a natural roster evolution.
Plus if we're considering the idea that the next Smash will be a traditional sequel with 15 unique newcomers in base, even setting aside that 2-3 of those would be third-parties that's still plenty of room for both several legacy fan requests and modern Nintendo picks.
 

CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
2,966
Location
Canada, Québec
I like both Smash Taunts and of course I talk and write about Palutena's Guidance and Codec Conversations. Since no one knows if Snake will return in Super Smash Bros. 6, I can say that Pit will stay and therefore we will definitely have Palutena's Guidance. If all the DLC characters that were in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate also appear in the new Super Smash Bros. as regular characters, I can't wait to see what Pit and Palutena will discuss about each of these characters.
It would be cool to have something new too. My idea was to have Deep cut (Splatoon 3 idols) to talk about the fighters.
 
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