Why do I feel Wario can escape this before the footstool occurs?
Have you tested this against a live opponent or just a CPU?
Have you tested this against a live opponent or just a CPU?
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Peach Infinite on Wario
- Thread starter Praxis
- Start date
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Didn't work. The distance is too low and when you go for the distance needed to autocancel the opponent can get up.
For Bowser's infinite to work on Wario he needs to be caught out of a double-jump, thus it's very easy for the wario to avoid getting infinited.There's no sense banning something that isn't broken to begin with.
I would have a good laugh if everyone decided to ban Bowser's infinite on Wario.
This on the other hand...
Yuna can strawman all he wants, the fact is we need to know just how reliably wario can avoid getting grabbed by Peach.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
lmao warios being infinitied by random people
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
You didn't use strawman correctly.
Again I ask, why is it okay to ban one infinite but not the other when they oth do the exact same thing when accomplished?
its extremely inconsistent.
Are you playing dumb? Think why I'm not vocal about the IC's infinites.
Ease of startup.
One is like banning a move that takes 2 seconds to startup and instantly KOs your opponent from anywhere, the other takes 15 seconds to start (Assume that suffering a hit during either interrupts). While they're both a bit odd to think about, the 2 second one would be seriously broken but the 15 second one would pretty much never work. So while you could ban both for being instant-KO moves, you would only *need* to ban the 2 second one to prevent abuse.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
So because its easy to do its ban worthy?
What about the fact that they both have the exact same effect on the metagame?
Just because its easy doesn't change the fact that it has absolutely no effect on the metagame as a whole.
Why don't we ban Sheik's Ftilt lock? Its instant death for Fox and its EASY!
Let alone hat such banning makes it inconsistent which is very bad.
You are doing the same thing yesterday.
Answer my questions instead of dancing about and avoiding them.
M15t3R E
Smash Master
Leave it to Yuna to turn a friendly thread into a big debate with mud-slinging and hurt feelings all over the creation...
Did you even read my example?
What's the difficulty of actually activating one special move compared to the difficulty of activating another? Identical. I clearly explained I was not talking about the difficulty in performing the move itself.
Because it's easy to start can make it ban worthy. Difficulty to perform is not the same as difficulty to start.
For instance, why isn't Rest considered a broken move? Because while you can do a Rest anywhere you want, most of the time you'll just go to sleep and your opponent won't take a hit. But it's very easy to do a Rest! However, it's quite hard to land a Rest on your opponent, and that's what makes Rest not broken. The same goes for infinites.
Going back to my example for a moment, if a 2 second startup, interruptible, one hit KO anywhere move existed it would not have the same impact on the metagame as if a 15 second startup, interruptible, one hit KO move anywhere existed. I honestly can't believe you'd claim otherwise, because that's ridiculous.
You might think this if you're given answers that require common sense to questions that are very stupid.
You can avoid getting grabbed by IC's, just like Wario can avoid getting grabbed out of a double jump by Bowser.
The question is, can Wario avoid getting grabbed by Peach?
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Clearly you didn't read my response completely otherwise such a question is just unnecessary.
I never said you were, you're misinterpreting my statement.
Why?
Again I ask you the same **** thing I've been asking everyone.
Why is it being easy to start such an important factor?
Again I bring up the case of Sheik's Ftilt lock.
Easy to start and results in death for the character, ban?
So DDD can hit Z fro anywhere and grab the character? The character has absolutely no method of spacing or avoiding the move?
Its an autowin button?
Again I shall ask.
Why is it okay to ban one thing that is easy, but ban another that is hard, even though their effect is the exact same?
Why should we not ban Sheik's ftilt lock when it results in a stock loss just like DDD's infinite results in DK getting a stock loss?
Why is it okay to give those 5 characters a chance, but then not give a chance to Fox when he encounters pika and Sheik?
Yeah they are soooo stupid and sooo easily defeated by comon sense that you absolutely refuse to answer them.
Why can't the other characters avoid getting grabbed by DDD. What is so special about DDDs grab that means he just hits Z and he grabs them?
Why is DDD so very special?
Can the bad 5 avoid getting grabbed?
Can they or can they not try and space DDD?
Does DD just hit Z and automatically grab them?
__________________
As of 12/17/08:
Percentage of people that want MK banned: 56.01%
Percentage of people that want D3's infinite banned: 55.82%
Luigi player
Smash Master
It is a very big factor. If ICs grab was easier to land their infinite would have to be banned, because they would totally dominate the competitive smash scene.
It does not result in death.
Because it doesn't result in a stock loss.
Dededes grabrange is too ****ing good. A grab is the easiest thing to land with Dedede. That's one of few reasons why he is as good as he is.
Btw, why is this discussed here, when we have the D3 infinite thread for that discussion?
I answered this already. Repeatedly. You keep asking because you never accept the answer, even when it is given. Tbh, that's not my fault or problem. Nevertheless, I will try once more for you.
Imagine with me, if you will, a game where people try to not ban things unless they require banning for the sake of the metagame. This requires arbitrary lines -- certain moves will be banned because people feel they're too hard to judge whether they're being used fairly or not, or will be just too effective. Now I'm going to go back to my move example, because it's far cleaner to explain with that way.
In this game there exists a move that by pushing the B button, the character begins a windup. After 2 seconds, if they are not struck, they automatically defeat their opponent. It's very easy to clear an opponent away to gain 2 seconds, and the move basically makes the matchup unwinnable for almost everyone facing them. So the move gets banned.
In this game there also exists a move that by pushing the B button, the character begins a windup. After 15 seconds, if they are not struck, they automatically defeat their opponent. It's very hard to clear an opponent away to gain 15 seconds, and the move is never realistically used. So it's not banned, because if someone is skilled enough to put their opponent in a position where they can execute this move it's considered fair that they be allowed to execute it -- it pretty much requires their opponent to screw up to allow it to happen.
The first can be thought of as DDD's infinite throw, or other infinites that are extremely easy to begin with no answer possible (Or even MK's IDC could qualify, imo). The second, any of a number of harder infinites to set up. The difficulty in making the decision is because people don't want to be "ban happy" and only want to ban things that are really unanswerable or break the game. This leads to necessary arbitrary lines being drawn.
So take your pick: You can advocate banning all infinites regardless of setup time, difficulty, opponent's capability to prevent, or anything like that, or you can try to keep as many techniques allowed as is realistic that will leave reasonably possible matchups and have to figure out where to draw lines for what is ban worthy and what isn't. But the anti-ban side keeps going between both (You can't ban this because this other one isn't banned, but oh this other one isn't ban worthy because it can't be landed) and that's not a realistic option.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
not really, what matters is the impact of it not because its easy.
Sheik's chaingrab affected characters differently, bowser and Link took it hard, other characters not so much.
it does. Leads into a tipper Usmash that is unavoidable.
Except it does.
How about the lovely jab locks and laser locks?
marth had much better grab range in melee.
Ban his Cg on the spacies? Automatica stock loss there.
We are moving along a tangent I suppose.
M15t3R E
Smash Master
I don't see why ease of use isn't a legitimate point to discuss when considering something as a candidate for a ban.
Think about it. If the Ice Climbers' infinite chaingrabs were VERY easy to pull off, it would be too easy to abuse and everyone would use the Ice Climbers instead of Meta Knight (and more people would use Ice Climbers than currently use Meta Knight), and it would effect the metagame of Brawl tremendously! Therefore, it would have to be banned.
So when you think about it, the infinite chaingrabs' lack of ease of use is the only thing preventing it from being banned.
Think about it. If the Ice Climbers' infinite chaingrabs were VERY easy to pull off, it would be too easy to abuse and everyone would use the Ice Climbers instead of Meta Knight (and more people would use Ice Climbers than currently use Meta Knight), and it would effect the metagame of Brawl tremendously! Therefore, it would have to be banned.
So when you think about it, the infinite chaingrabs' lack of ease of use is the only thing preventing it from being banned.
Luigi player
Smash Master
Lol, you had the wrong name with the quotes on your clipboard =P
Anyway:
Yes it would be banned. Ask anyone. Everyone will tell you that it is not banned, because it is really hard to grab people. If it would be easier everyone would pick them up to win.
This is not Melee.
Jab and Laser locks are not infinite. You can Smash DI to get behind your enemy or more in the other direction to get to the edge faster.
I read that Ganondorf will not die from this. I can't ftilt lock CPU Ganondorfs if they have less than 30 %. This means not everyone could just pick Shiek and win vs a really good Ganondorf unless they are really used to Shiek. Also nobody would really need to CP Shiek against a Ganondorf anyway... >_>
I'll say it again: This is not Melee.
Guys; why is this turning into a debate about Dedede's infinites?
Get out please.
Dedede's is a different discussion, and it's not for this thread.
Get out please.
It's not like ICs are even winning major tournaments with it. It hasn't been proven gamebreaking.
Dedede's is a different discussion, and it's not for this thread.
M15t3R E
Smash Master
That's what I'm saying. I am saying IF it was easy to use, IC would win every major tournament and the infinite chaingrabs would have to be banned because it would dramatically impact the overall metagame of Brawl.
But yes, you're right. We needn't have debates in here. You can thank Yuna and ShadowLink for starting it.
Just to point out how little shadowlink knows what he's talking about: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186158
Yes, this was obviously all my fault! Despite the fact that I didn't really say anything other than state that this is as bannable as D3's infinite. It was then other people who started slinging mud.
Daimonster
Smash Journeyman
Stay on topic.
10uninformed forum browsers
10uninformed forum browsers
ExCeL 52
Smash Lord
Nice find Praxis 
Too bad it wasn't set into Tier List =( Looks a little hard to pull off but with some practice in training Im pretty sure alot of Peach mains could pull this off ALOT in matches ...
Too bad it wasn't set into Tier List =( Looks a little hard to pull off but with some practice in training Im pretty sure alot of Peach mains could pull this off ALOT in matches ... 
First things first test on humans.
Have wario DJ if you can still footstool him okay... It's in the clear if not test without a dj.
Second test have the human try rolling or getting up immediately after hitting the ground. If not continue.
Test if wario can roll after being back aired. If not then try the final step.
Have wario smash DI the back air. See if he gets too far enough for a fast enough re grab and if so at what percent
Have wario DJ if you can still footstool him okay... It's in the clear if not test without a dj.
Second test have the human try rolling or getting up immediately after hitting the ground. If not continue.
Test if wario can roll after being back aired. If not then try the final step.
Have wario smash DI the back air. See if he gets too far enough for a fast enough re grab and if so at what percent
Not all jab locks force a get up.
Really? Didn't know there were different types of jab-locks.
We have a list of people that can force a jump release on Wario somewhere on the boards, don't we? I'll try to search for it.
edit:
These characters should check for foostool infinites on Wario:
Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Zelda, Shiek, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Captain Falcon, Ivvysaur, Marth, Ike, Snake
Some of those characters already could just do regrab infinites, right? I know Yoshi can, but I've never seen a complete list of who can just keep regrabbing Wario without any fancy shananigans.
EDIT: The footstooling won't lead to infinites for anyone since footstools make you go up pretty far. It only works for Peach because she can float out of footstools to cancel height gain. I was checking it out with Ivysaur, and it very obviously doesn't work.
EDIT: The footstooling won't lead to infinites for anyone since footstools make you go up pretty far. It only works for Peach because she can float out of footstools to cancel height gain. I was checking it out with Ivysaur, and it very obviously doesn't work.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
This isn't really a big discovery really if you ask me but more a connecting of dots.
Like honestly, I could come here and make the same exact thread but with sheik.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
Oh look we got a chain grab on wario le gasp!
Like honestly, I could come here and make the same exact thread but with sheik.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
Oh look we got a chain grab on wario le gasp!
Kirby can fastfall a NAir. That's how Kirby's works on anyone.
Woops, I misread it, it only works on a few characters.
If I found a way out of Yoshi's infinite (forcing the ground break), then yes it would be wise to trust us.
rehab
Smash Journeyman
Did you really have to put this in Tactical. God do I wish I played a better character.
hate
