Peach Infinite on Wario

[Ref]

I don't get why you just decide not to tell people. It's like helping someone who wanted to make a character worse...

Like "oh Kirby gets infinited by King dedede"(Sample it's false anyway)

"There is a way out but I'm not telling you until summer of 2009"

Kinda dumb and nobody will believe you, then people stop playing kirby, and even after when you release it nobody cares because they are too good with their new main.

 

[DMG]

It's not dumb, you will understand.

 

[Ref]

It's not dumb, you will understand.

The only reason I see not to release it is that it is still under going testing so that none find a counter tactic.

Anyway so yeah guys Smash DI is good. Smash DI out of other jab locks too.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

Brawl is looking more and more like a game of infinites.

 

[Ref]

Brawl is looking more and more like a game of infinites.

I agree I really though feel that the people who release them well before they become common knowledge are really speeding up a game faster than counter tactics can be thought of. This is a good or bad thing depending on who you are and the kind of game you like.

For example if an infinite is discovered through slow spreading there will already be people testing to break it.

The most likely people to know are the players of the character that does it and the players of the character that it is done to.

The two most likely groups to prove it wrong.

If it is discovered quickly Everyone does it/knows way before the counter tactic can be found if their is one.

Sure knowledge is power but when does this kind of knowledge just become dumb... One of the few things that I don't get is why this is posted in the Tactical Discussion, to me that just says:

"Hey look I want to ruin a character! Pull this in tourneys even though you don't play peach!"

Or it can mean

"Look can someone prove this wrong?"

Really hard to tell which one.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Still those wario mainers are hard to grab .

If a Wario hits a shield with a close range move he's screwed. Yeah.

 

[MrEh]

If a Wario hits a shield with a close range move he's screwed. Yeah.

Unless it's a bite.

Then it's NOM NOM NOM Time!

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Ouch. That's a hit to wario players. x_x

 

[Crizthakidd]

*picks up peach for the wario matchup*

 

[DMG]

*picks up peach for the wario matchup*

*Wins anyways because he can just camp the entire match*

Teehee. U people are silly... picking up characters just because you think you can abuse the grab release... and then the match happens and he never gets grabbed and you lose cause you have an unfamiliar character.

 

[streetracr77]

*Wins anyways because he can just camp the entire match*

Teehee. U people are silly... picking up characters just because you think you can abuse the grab release... and then the match happens and he never gets grabbed and you lose cause you have an unfamiliar character.

This is so true! People go into matches with a character they've played for 3 days and think they can win because they saw a grab infinite on YouTube that they were only able to pull off one time.

 

[Greenpoe]

*Wins anyways because he can just camp the entire match*

Teehee. U people are silly... picking up characters just because you think you can abuse the grab release... and then the match happens and he never gets grabbed and you lose cause you have an unfamiliar character.

He was being sarcastic.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Anyway, for the normal infinite on Wario, I've never seen the data nicely compiled so I did my own research with much better methods than the last time I tried. I manipulated two controllers to try to double jump out and to try to air dodge out (in case Wario gets grabbed when he has wasted his double jump). Wario's situation is really not that bad. If anyone discovers any mistakes, please let me know. Of course, those wily Wario mains like to be hush hush about the infinite so if I did make mistakes you can be pretty sure they won't tell you.

Infinite with Double Jump:

Bowser*, Yoshi*, Zelda*, Zero Suit Samus*, Pit, R.O.B., Fox, Falco, Wolf@

Infinite without Double Jump:

Diddy Kong, Meta Knight

Not Infinite:

Mario, Luigi, Peach*, Donkey Kong*, Wario*, Link (t), Sheik*, Ganondorf*, Toon Link (t), Samus (t), Ice Climbers, Kirby, King Dedede, Olimar, Captain Falcon*, Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur*, Charizard@@, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Marth*@@, Ike*, Ness, Lucas (t), Mr. Game & Watch, Snake*, Sonic

*: Can force a jump break on Wario on flat ground.
@: Wario gets a chance to use his double jump, but he gets grabbed before he can ascend.
@@: Wario's double jump turns into a footstool, allowing him to escape what he otherwise would not be able to.
(t): These characters have tethers that aim down slopes and fail pretty horribly at regrabbing Wario. It's novel so I thought I'd note it.

By the way, Yoshi players, don't pummel Wario immediately after you grab him. If you avoid that, he can't ground break. Zelda and Bowser have very slow pummels; if you can mash grab breaks fast enough as Wario, you can probably make their "infinite" do no guaranteed damage at reasonable percentages (which means that you could call a TO over and make them let you go due to stalling). Regardless, all of them are pretty tricky to do; don't expect to pick up these guys as secondaries to beat Wario since you won't. Consider this a nice bonus if you already main a character who can do it.

For those who want to use stage counterpicks to help with this, here are all the stages with slopes that might reasonably be legal.

Permanent slopes:

Yoshi's Island Brawl (only on the VERY edges... and the platform sometimes), Skyworld, PictoChat (only on the VERY edges... and some drawings), Green Hill Zone, Yoshi's Island Melee, Onett, Corneria

Interrupted slopes:

Mario Circuit, Pirate Ship, Distant Planet, Brinstar

Temporary slopes:

Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise (not useful at all), Pokemon Stadium 2, Castle Siege, Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1

And more stage fun... Low ceilings doom Wario. On Luigi's Mansion, I'm pretty sure every character who can force a jump break has some regrabs on Wario except Marth who steps forward when he grabs and will eventually lead Wario outside of the house. On Skyworld it's even worse because you have a low ceiling above a slope; don't get grabbed with Wario there!

To be fair to Wario, he can avoid all of these infinites by hanging under low platforms. Battlefield, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 2, Distant Planet, Smashville, Jungle Japes, Onett, Green Greens, and Pokemon Stadium 1 offer large amounts of such opportunities. On Smashville, he's pretty much infinite proof!

Lastly, I only tested the use of standing grabs. Using dash grabs or pivot grabs may enable further abuse though do be warned that they risk tripping. I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader to discover.

 

[Adapt]

If anyone is interested they can find a good example of the Wario Infinite by ZSS here: http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=q0t1RVwqLog @ 5:53

(was this the one you tested Ampharos?)

 

[Remzi]

Very nice find Praxis. Though none of these have too great an effect on wario since nobody can grab him >_>

 

[Praxis]

How many people can footstool Wario and have jab-locks?

Kirby has a jab-lock, but I'm guessing he's too short to force a jump release.

Nobody. It's hard to tell, but in the video, Peach is cancelling her footstool momentum using float really quick and falling.

Anyone else would kick off Wario's head and not be able to fall to the ground fast enough.

 

[Kirio]

Everytime an infinite is discovered, or in this case thought up, against Wario I get this warm fuzzy tingling sensation deep inside me.

Clever thinking Praxis, well done.

 

[Praxis]

Sure knowledge is power but when does this kind of knowledge just become dumb... One of the few things that I don't get is why this is posted in the Tactical Discussion, to me that just says:

"Hey look I want to ruin a character! Pull this in tourneys even though you don't play peach!"

Or it can mean

"Look can someone prove this wrong?"

Really hard to tell which one.

Er, it's more a "HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT I FOUND."
Seriously, you're looking way too much into intent LOL.

Nobody's gonna pick up Peach to do this when other characters can already do it easier and don't have such a hard learning curve. This is for Peach mains.

Clever thinking Praxis, well done.

<3

 

[Niko_K]

It won't be an infinite the second you have to pivot grab.

 

[adumbrodeus]

A) Are you serious?????!?!?! You do realize that FD is no big deal in almost every other matchup right (it sways a few matchups here and there, but nothing too serious).

....

No, FROM THE SET!

Use your stage strike for that purpose.

I don't get why you just decide not to tell people. It's like helping someone who wanted to make a character worse...

Like "oh Kirby gets infinited by King dedede"(Sample it's false anyway)

"There is a way out but I'm not telling you until summer of 2009"

Kinda dumb and nobody will believe you, then people stop playing kirby, and even after when you release it nobody cares because they are too good with their new main.

Probably gonna use it in a tournament.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Just to point out how little shadowlink knows what he's talking about: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186158

Good job you epicly failed.
Read my post.
Sheik's Ftilt LOCK. Not infinite, LOCK.
As in it works up to a certain percent/distance.
You do know that Sheik can tipper Usmash Fox after the Ftilt lock right?
So once Fox reaches percents where he can escape (approximately 72%)
Sheik can simply tipper Usmash and kill Fox.

If you're going to try and discredit someone, at least make sure it actually discredts the individual rather than making an *** of yourself.

Umm WTF? Shadowlink84's post allegedly quotes me, yet I have not participated in this thread in any way...

I believe you're talking to Luigi Player....

I'll fix the error in a bit sorry.

 

[petre]

Nobody. It's hard to tell, but in the video, Peach is cancelling her footstool momentum using float really quick and falling.

Anyone else would kick off Wario's head and not be able to fall to the ground fast enough.

this is just a guess, but pika might be able to QAC fast enough...i know that he can lock wolf this way. im too lazy to test though.

 

[Praxis]

A) Are you serious?????!?!?! You do realize that FD is no big deal in almost every other matchup right (it sways a few matchups here and there, but nothing too serious).

Not from tournaments, Wario mains should ban it before their matches when given the opportunity. Sigh.

 

[MilleniumFalco]

I like what DMG said- it can be hard to grab wario anyway

 

[Flayl]

Good job you epicly failed.
Read my post.
Sheik's Ftilt LOCK. Not infinite, LOCK.
As in it works up to a certain percent/distance.
You do know that Sheik can tipper Usmash Fox after the Ftilt lock right?
So once Fox reaches percents where he can escape (approximately 72%)
Sheik can simply tipper Usmash and kill Fox.

Okay, rather than admit you were wrong, you're saying you were comparing a combo (that is nowhere near 0-death) to an infinite. If so you're even dumber than I thought.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Okay, rather than admit you were wrong, you're saying you were comparing a combo (that is nowhere near 0-death) to an infinite. If so you're even dumber than I thought.

yeah you're right dude, I am completely wrong in spite of the fact that you haven't proven ANY of your claims. No totally, your attempt to discredit me really adds to your arguments.

here is a hint since you apparently do not understand.

0-death=0-death. The opponent is trapped in the attack until they reach the point where they die. Much like DK's combo on Fox in melee and much like Sheik's Ftilt lock on Fox. both result in the opponents death.

DDD's infinite on DK is the same thing. He infinite DK until killing percents then throws him off and then DK dies.

Look at that, both are inescapable and both result in death.
Both make the opponent incapable of getting away once they have been landed and performed, both result in death.

Do you understand now?
Oh but you'll just dance around the issue as usual.

 

[Flayl]

Somebody else explain the obvious of how Shiek's ftilt is not a 0-death, because apparently when I do it it's dancing around the issue.

 

[RyanPF]

Sheik's f-tilt is the larger part of the 0-death (f-tilt >72% > tip U-smash) but not a 0-death or an infinite in itself.

And actually, it serves the same purpose as an infinite because the point of an infinite is to rack up enough damage to KO.

 

[Flayl]

You can't Ftilt a Fox from 0% to 72%, if the Fox player DI's correctly.

 

[Pullvie]

It only works from 30%+ me thinks. ._.

 

[metaXzero]

You can't Ftilt a Fox from 0% to 72%, if the Fox player DI's correctly.

IIRC, you can't really DI hits that don't put you into a tumble animation like Sheik's F-tilt (Especially when you are Fox with his Fast fall nature).

I might be wrong though.

 

[salaboB]

IIRC, you can't really DI hits that don't put you into a tumble animation like Sheik's F-tilt (Especially when you are Fox with his Fast fall nature).

I might be wrong though.

It's referred to as smash DI.

 

[RyanPF]

You can't Ftilt a Fox from 0% to 72%, if the Fox player DI's correctly.

Well that certainly changes things, doesn't it. >.> I didn't see you mention that before so I was taking the other guy's word for it.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You can't Ftilt a Fox from 0% to 72%, if the Fox player DI's correctly.

Cause the Fox boards themselves are completely wrong on the issue when within the same topic that YOU picked out they said "You wil still take an ungodly amount of damage (around 70%)".

Good job.
You can di out of it extremely early by DIing toward the ground and shielding but Sheik cans imply raise your damage 10% or so more at which point going to the ground is not possible. At which point you DI towards Sheik but you will still take a large amount of damage hence the 70% or so. Let alone that Sheik can tipper Usmash and tack on an extra 30% damage if not outright kill you.

Now let us say you can escape at 60% or so.
You will still be struck by the following Usmash/Dsmash.
That is the purpose of the lock, to cause damage and then set up for the kill move.

Somebody else explain the obvious of how Shiek's ftilt is not a 0-death, because apparently when I do it it's dancing around the issue.

*facepalm*
Now you're just being flat out stupid.

Where did you pull such an interpretation from?

 

[Flayl]

Well that certainly changes things, doesn't it. >.> I didn't see you mention that before so I was taking the other guy's word for it.

I gave a link to the Fox boards (the topic is months old too) on how to DI Shiek's Ftilt.

Where did you pull such an interpretation from?

You have a really short memory.

0-death=0-death. The opponent is trapped in the attack until they reach the point where they die. Much like DK's combo on Fox in melee and much like Sheik's Ftilt lock on Fox. both result in the opponents death.

I bet you're taling out of your *** concerning about the DI out of the lock, so I'm going to refrain calling you stupid until I can test it out. But I will.

 

[Tristan_win]

About fox... You can ftilt him from 30% into the 70s before he escapes even if he DI correctly but you cannot kill him with the usmash at that % so technically sheik doesn't have a 30% to death combo on fox.

...However by the time fox can escape the ftilt by then the ftilt will be weaken enough that it will be able to set up the ftilt into unavoidable tipper usmash on fox.

Oh and by the way the sheik can just as easily end the lock right before fox can escape into a utilt which will put fox into killing range for the ftilt into usmash set up.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

So because its easy to do its ban worthy?
What about the fact that they both have the exact same effect on the metagame?
Just because its easy doesn't change the fact that it has absolutely no effect on the metagame as a whole.

Why don't we ban Sheik's Ftilt lock? Its instant death for Fox and its EASY!

Let alone hat such banning makes it inconsistent which is very bad.




You are doing the same thing yesterday.
Answer my questions instead of dancing about and avoiding them.

Wait if you are proposing a trade - that we concede to ban this infinite but you have to concede to ban the DDD infinite - then I'm all for banning both!

On the subject of this infinite, it is stage dependent and only useful on Final D and Battlefield. Also, I think Wario may be able jump out before the footstool but who knows, I want to test it with fiction since he'll know all of warios intracacies. I won't accept it as real until I test it on a wario main.

 

[WoodyWiggins]

All this ban talk is scary. Banning every single "unfair" infinite could ruin the game competitively. For example, If Peach had 20 infinites, and every single one of them are banned, who would want to main Peach competitively, when they can casually own noobs? Or what if all the characters had 20 infinites (10 character specific 10 non character specific) and every single one of them were banned?
If infinites were to become the center of competitive brawl, would the ban on D3 be reconsidered? I don't main D3 but people will continue to find infinites. Most infinites require practice to be pulled off consistantly. And since every character in the game has the potential to perform an infinite, why not embrace infinites?

 

[Roxas215]

Wow very cool! I have to try this!

 

[Villi]

It won't be an infinite the second you have to pivot grab.

What makes you say that?