PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[JPOBS]

I've noticed the same things. Some chars just have trouble getting back on safely if you spam laser

Marth is one of these characters surprisingly. If you just Laser spam, you can cover all his option by laser->grab and tossing him back off. Rinse repeat.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not sure if this is true but the way the frame data looks, if you Laser Shine grab or Laser Grab at the edge against Marth even if he sidesteps the grab you're only at -2 or so and if you Shine again he can't grab you.

 

[JPOBS]

wait
you mean, i was right about something?
and...
Kirbykaze didnt have to correct me??!?!?

*is happy*

 

[KikoMePlease]

Whats the timing for the Shine OOS against falco/fox? I always end up doing a spotdodge or getting hit by their shine or something =/

 

[JPOBS]

theres no definite answer on "whats the timing" because, i could tell you the frame data, but that would be almost useless. it comes more from experience and practice

it boils down to when the falco is using the aerials. If he is doing early aerials after the shines and thus, hitting your sheild early, you can shine OOS before he lands. If he is doing late aerial, you have to shine oos after his shine but before his aerial.

vs fox its the same thing but you have to pay more attention cuz fox's sheild pressure is a little better.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Whats the timing for the Shine OOS against falco/fox? I always end up doing a spotdodge or getting hit by their shine or something =/

if you're spotdodging or getting hit, you need to wait a bit longer in yur shield or hes doing late aerials on yur shield which you can't shine oos anyways

 

[KikoMePlease]

Okay let me rephrase my question, if the aerial hits the top of your shield, when are you out of hitlag so that you can jump out and shine?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that question has the exact same problems that jpobs outlined in his previous post

anyways, my response should have been adequate

 

[KikoMePlease]

Yeah kk, so basically I'm doing it too early?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yea,

if you're spotdodging, then when you press jump, you're still in shieldstun so the jump doesn't come out. but the down B input does go through, and since you're in your shield you sidestep.

if you're getting hit by their shine, it cud be for a number of reasons. Either you don't do the actually jump->downB inputs fast enough, and getting hit between the jumping and shining. Or you're doing all of the inputs too fast while you're still in sheild stun and end up just dropping your sheild. Or like i said before, they're doing late aerial -> shine, in which case you shouldn't be trying to shine oos becuz it will never work.

 

[unknown522]

I saw PP's fox vs Hbox.

Looking good.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Did that finally go up?

Sweet.

 

[Pi]

he coulda countered as well i think

 

[JPOBS]

where are these vids?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Videogamebootcamp's channel.

Saw some of the matches....lol my fox.

 

[stingers]

you did pretty good man

 

[FoxLisk]

are those from herb 3?

i remember i was next in line for a friendly and hungrybox walked up and looked at me and was like

"are you next for friendlies?"

and i nodded, then he just ignored me and plugged in his controller and got 3 stocked cause he was sandbagging

then dr pp was like "man i wish he would play seriously, i'd like to have some good matches with fox against his puff"

then i got like 3 stocked by PP's falco -_-

this interaction (and shortly thereafter) convinced me that Dr. PP is a nice guy and hbox is kind of a douchebag.

edit: grammar

 

[Dr Peepee]

Heck no I'm the worst.

Screw everyone.

Edit: yeah they're from herb 3.

 

[Animal]

yedi i beat you at the last bi weeklies i went to when did you get so good? cant wait to play you again

 

[#HBC | Mac]

what makes you think i'm good? lol

yea i look forward to playing you again as well

 

[MooseEatsBear]

Can I get some advice on Falco dittos? I have no idea what I'm doing when I get into a Falco ditto.
Ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IN3SNvu1wM

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yedi is mad **** yo.

 

[JPOBS]

are those from herb 3?

i remember i was next in line for a friendly and hungrybox walked up and looked at me and was like

"are you next for friendlies?"

and i nodded, then he just ignored me and plugged in his controller and got 3 stocked cause he was sandbagging

then dr pp was like "man i wish he would play seriously, i'd like to have some good matches with fox against his puff"

then i got like 3 stocked by PP's falco -_-

this interaction (and shortly thereafter) convinced me that Dr. PP is a nice guy and hbox is kind of a douchebag.

edit: grammar

lmfao this kinda reminds me of the first time i met unknown.

it was my first tourny over a year ago and me and my teammate had to play unknown and raynex first round bracket. We got destroyed first game, like 6 stocked or something.
then on the character select screen unknown switches to pichu. i was kinda shocked he was gonna show us up like that and thought it was kinda disrespectful lol. but raynex made him switch back to fox.
but that was a long time ago, now i know unknown is just a big teddy bear <3

 

[Little England]

My Falcon game is sub-par. I got ***** by S2J in tournament. This set was kinda like my MM against Lovage. I was really confused 1st game and then adjusted for the 2nd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGY4pLWux4 (Link to the second game in the video)

I also have set against Zhu I'd like you guys to critique. I believe I'm pretty decent at dittos, but everything helps right? (Link to the second game in the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-E4gax46o (Link to the second game in the video)


I wish PP would come in here and give some advice, but I know how he's been busy and stuff. lol You guys did a great job w/ advice before though, so no worries. TY in advance.

 

[X1-12]

I wish PP would come in here and give some advice, but I know how he's been busy and stuff. lol You guys did a great job w/ advice before though, so no worries. TY in advance.

i swear PP is the most active pro when it comes to giving advice <333

 

[JPOBS]

In general i feel like you should use uptilt a lot more. you never use it.

one thing i notice you kept getting ***** for was overshooting nairs through his sheild.
You kept overshooting nairs and then habitually shining. But the shine would be out of range, so he consistently dair'd oos to combo *****.
recognize more when a shine will miss and just uptilt instead to interrupt his aerial. or run away.

 

[unknown522]

My Falcon game is sub-par. I got ***** by S2J in tournament. This set was kinda like my MM against Lovage. I was really confused 1st game and then adjusted for the 2nd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGY4pLWux4 (Link to the second game in the video)

I also have set against Zhu I'd like you guys to critique. I believe I'm pretty decent at dittos, but everything helps right? (Link to the second game in the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-E4gax46o (Link to the second game in the video)


I wish PP would come in here and give some advice, but I know how he's been busy and stuff. lol You guys did a great job w/ advice before though, so no worries. TY in advance.

that match vs S2J, I see that he approaches you a lot with n-air, but you never stuff it with u-tilt, or CC them. Also, when he was hitting you with u-airs on the platform, you didn't CC any -> shine. You don't really d-air him, or pressure his shield at all. Also, I know it's Yoshi's but you didn't laser much, and kept trying to attack him. Chilling back with lasers is awesome.

 

[Dr Peepee]

My Falcon game is sub-par. I got ***** by S2J in tournament. This set was kinda like my MM against Lovage. I was really confused 1st game and then adjusted for the 2nd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGY4pLWux4 (Link to the second game in the video)

I also have set against Zhu I'd like you guys to critique. I believe I'm pretty decent at dittos, but everything helps right? (Link to the second game in the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN-E4gax46o (Link to the second game in the video)


I wish PP would come in here and give some advice, but I know how he's been busy and stuff. lol You guys did a great job w/ advice before though, so no worries. TY in advance.

I've had a lot going on in my life, but I'm trying to get over it and help again. Sorry!

Vs S2J:

You got stuck in your shine a lot(it helps to mash jump when you do that), used lasers unnecessarily(you want to make your lasers cut something off or keep Falcon still, don't just shoot them to shoot them), you threw out some overspaced Bairs(which do no good because Bairs need to come in contact or very close contact with the person you're spacing to intimidate them/stay safe), a lot of weird Nairs too(try to use them only when you can catch Falcon. If he keeps outspacing them or running away from them then you need to lock him down better/laser more), try to not always just run at or directly challenge Falcon(his Nair can beat yours at times, and his DD game will mess you up....also he can counter obvious laser approaches, so try to keep those unobvious), you could have done with more grabs or more aware shield pressure(as in catching his roll with a laser at least or not missing L-cancels on your Nairs) to keep Falcon scared, take advantage of your stage control more(when you have Falcon by the edge, don't run away!), punish Nairs when you CC them with shine or Utilt I guess.....maybe shine OOS?


I might do vs Zhu later but I'm kinda tired right now and I'm supposed to be studying up for Shiz, Hbox and friends for CEO lol.

 

[Little England]

Thanks for all the advice! There were quite a few points you guys made that I didn't realize or just completely forgot about. Hopefully next time I won't get ***** so badly. lol

 

[XxDarkzeroxX]

you used lasers unnecessarily(you want to make your lasers cut something off or keep Falcon still, don't just shoot them to shoot them)

I know what you mean by that but I really can't implement it in an actual match. I missed lazer = knee to the face. is there like some way to practice that like the way I learn stuff quick is to start with something easy (like fox waveshining link) then work my way up from there(waveshining falcon, ganon, peach, shiek, etc) I guess now that I think about it its kinda something that just comes with experience tho but any advice would be apreciated

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's a lot of common sense.

Someone is on a platform, quit SHL'ing and either get on another platform and shoot him with DLs or go over there to pressure them. If you see them jump, laser where they could land, and react to whether they DJ or get hit by the laser.

^ it's a decent example.

It's hard to do(I squander it a lot), but that's the way I tell myself to do it.

Also, I'm out to CEO for the weekend guys! Hopefully I do well!

See you when I get back.

 

[FoxLisk]

Good luck!

 

[nicaboy]

I know what you mean by that but I really can't implement it in an actual match. I missed lazer = knee to the face. is there like some way to practice that like the way I learn stuff quick is to start with something easy (like fox waveshining link) then work my way up from there(waveshining falcon, ganon, peach, shiek, etc) I guess now that I think about it its kinda something that just comes with experience tho but any advice would be apreciated

Omg chris you posted?
First step man

 

[Jartravious]

Hey guys I'm wondering if I'm taking too long to kill my opponent with Falco. Around what percents do you normally get your kills against people around your skill level?

 

[FoxLisk]

uh. on what character? and how do you play? for example, against jiggs, i usually get kills at like 120%+ because i always play extremely conservatively and only go for utilt/dtilt kills so i dont get punished, but an aggressive high risk/high reward player might go for riskier kills in the 70s. and ill generally kill a fox or falco at like maybe 90%, but a good samus will live till like 130+. so it's kind of a broad question.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Hey guys I'm wondering if I'm taking too long to kill my opponent with Falco. Around what percents do you normally get your kills against people around your skill level?

i actually have this same problem

what arc told me, is that you should try to end your combos earlier and get them off the stage to set them up for an edgeguard. no point in comboing to like 140% and then ending it with them back on the stage in neutral position. Then stuff like dair, shine, utilt might not work as well on them.

 

[FoxLisk]

So, PP, I'm watching the set vs. hungrybox. i dont think you should feel bad about this at all, your play is excellent, he's just super good. things i noticed (that you probably have too, being way better than I am, but I figure it's worth pointing out if only because all us falcos need to be better at this matchup):

when you played him at HERB3, he was letting you get away with some unsafe things that he's not anymore. for example, you just got punished hard for trying to jab or utilt his shield in this set. you just can't try for tricks like that when a top player is confident and not messing up.

your laser game isn't helping as much as before, either. mostly i think this is because he has adapted and knows how to beat it. i dont know how to help with this >< i think there has to be some way to punish the fact that he has to be jumping all the time, but i dont know what it is. however, i do think that once or twice you were lasering under a platform hoping for laser control and just ended up with no space.

when he has fullhopped and is coming towards you and has to either jump again or land, probably with an aerial, you seem to run away and laser high. he usually fairs. is there a reason for this? it seems to me like a sh bair would be more effective. what's your thinking here?

also i totally thought you had the end of the last match! great games. are any more of your matches recorded and not uploaded?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Good call on the utilts on shield. I still feel good about the jabs, but I'll use them less now probably.

Thanks for pointing out that lasering under the platform thing. I'm going to play around with that situation in my head now. I already have some new ideas. =)

I like turning him around when he Bairs, but I end up not punishing the Fair that comes out afterward. I'll tighten that up for next time though or do something else when I see him come down.

That last match.....ahhhhhh so unfortunate. I'll be more composed next time.

I think all of me that was recorded got uploaded. Phanna is super fast.

 

[FoxLisk]

I like turning him around when he Bairs, but I end up not punishing the Fair that comes out afterward. I'll tighten that up for next time though or do something else when I see him come down.

ah okay i think we're talking about different things. You're talking about a situation like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gp0gIcdlNw#t=1m11s

that, right? where you laser him, he turns around but immediately fairs and if you're too close it works out actually in his favour? that i have no advice for, but I meant in situations like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gp0gIcdlNw#t=5m03s

there, where he was already facing you and has to fair and you try to laser instead of bairing (which i think will outprioritize his fair). i imagine this is largely a reaction thing - it's safer for your default reaction to be laser than to be bair, so sometimes you miss narrow opportunities. i was just wondering if it was deliberate, and if so, what the reasoning is.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ahhh okay.

I kinda know what his reactions will be if I laser him(throw out another Fair and come towards me) where he can trip me up if he Fairs and then DIs away from my Bair and punishes me or something. I just haven't gotten the entire punishment of that down yet.