PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[SPAWN]

I remember you. You beat me in a set with Sheik in a pool at Pound II. I wasn't sure it was you at the time 'cause I imagined you being much older than you looked.

Yeah I'm just randomly looking through Falco threads to see what's become of them. I haven't really payed attention to this part of the Character Specifics since I started playing Doc. and recently quit playing SSBM competitively.

Yeah... kids behind the internet is too good. Let's see, Pound 2 was (just did some research) June 16, 2007. I was 17 at the time (20 now) haha. It's been a while mang. All us old *** veterans lol.

When did you quit competitively btw? I've still been going at it competitively... now that I have the tools available to be good (a car, people in general and pros available to play with, some petty cash) I don't have that unlimited free time I used to have so I can't put in the effort now. <_> Having college as your number one priority, mixed with old friends, and a job makes getting good at smash/hanging with smashers all the time much harder, unfortunately.

 

[SmashMac]

Yeah... kids behind the internet is too good. Let's see, Pound 2 was (just did some research) June 16, 2007. I was 17 at the time (20 now) haha. It's been a while mang. All us old *** veterans lol.

When did you quit competitively btw? I've still been going at it competitively... now that I have the tools available to be good (a car, people in general and pros available to play with, some petty cash) I don't have that unlimited free time I used to have so I can't put in the effort now. <_> Having college as your number one priority, mixed with old friends, and a job makes getting good at smash/hanging with smashers all the time much harder, unfortunately.

Heh man it's already been almost 3 years eh? Dang. Yeah I hear ya on not having time to play. I just decided to stop playing competitively and put my time into other things really. I figured I had reached the peak of my prime and had already done what I had wanted (which was showing Doc's potential) and just decided to drop it all together. Yeah I was like 18 at the time in '07 during that tourney. 21 now, almost 22 (August 3). Now I'm working at BestBuy for Geeksquad and trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my life career-wise. Oddly enough I've gotten better since I quit competitively since I still get to play Shiz every day for fun. Either way it was fun, and still is.

 

[SPAWN]

Well, unfortunately, I haven't accomplished anything notable... thus me continuing playing haha.

I'm glad to hear you're doing okay though. You definitely seriously developed the Doc metagame. I remember back when it was just Bob$, Cyphus, and you for great Doc players (I had wanted to be a Doc main in 05 and then switched over to the dark side (Sheik and am in the process of switching to Falco) because I noticed some character limitations with Doc). Now we have a whole ton of players doing really well with Doc. :D

 

[SmashMac]

Well, unfortunately, I haven't accomplished anything notable... thus me continuing playing haha.

I'm glad to hear you're doing okay though. You definitely seriously developed the Doc metagame. I remember back when it was just Bob$, Cyphus, and you for great Doc players (I had wanted to be a Doc main in 05 and then switched over to the dark side (Sheik and am in the process of switching to Falco) because I noticed some character limitations with Doc). Now we have a whole ton of players doing really well with Doc. :D

Heh man your Sheik was really good. I remember it to this day. I'm sure you've accomplished more than you think. As for Doc., I'm just glad I was able to be a part of an impact in helping more people realize their potential with him.

 

[SPAWN]

Wow, that means a lot SmashMac. <3

We'll continue our old veteran speak elsewhere (pms/something lol).


So... anyways...

Can anybody do Falco's bair on edge to recovering on FD? I can't do it consistently.

 

[prog]

Wow, that means a lot SmashMac. <3

We'll continue our old veteran speak elsewhere (pms/something lol).


So... anyways...

Can anybody do Falco's bair on edge to recovering on FD? I can't do it consistently.

what, wavedash off bair to up recovery?

 

[Linguini]

Only here because I saw smashmac posting. It's been way too long smaymay! I was talking to shiz the other day and he might come to my tournament on the 29th, you should try and come out too, it'd be sick as I know colbol and the CFL dudes are heading down for it too.

BTW Dr.D!ck(yeah I was the first one to say that) you coming to CEO? If you are we gotta get mad friendlies, and this time more than 2 or 3.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah you definitely were the first to say that lol, too good.
And you know we're gonna friendly a lot this time. =)

Not sure what you mean there, Spawn.

 

[Little England]

I like your other avatar better PP.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's coming back soon. I'm just being ******** with the rest of NC at the moment.

Also why am I awake?

 

[SPAWN]

Kevin, you are crazy.

What I mean is:

1) Get on edge with Falco on Final Destination
2) Bair
3) jump
4) Up+B
5) Live
6) Dance around the stage and your house

It's pretty tough.

 

[Mogwai]

tap back on control stick
tap back on c-stick
know Falco well enough to know when you can jump
jump
up b
hit towards stack on control stick
hit up on d-pad

I can do it, it just mostly sucks with Falco tbh

 

[SPAWN]

It's good in like 1/10 situations vs Fox. Yes, it does usually suck though.

I use the A button btw.


Why is it when I jump early it feels like I accelerate faster and can't jump again for a longer period of time? It happens when I bair with Sheik as well (on edge of any stage).

....Summary:
1) Get on ledge of FD
2) Bair
3) Input jump button earlier than possible
4) Try to jump out of bair at actual time and end up not jumping
5) Die
6) Why?

 

[Mogwai]

you probably just don't realize how precise you need to be with jump timing to live on some of those things. Mashing jump works, as shown by recovery, but if you're hitting jump early first, you're probably just late on jumping at the right time.

 

[X1-12]

mash the jump button?


also what good falco combo videos are there? (preferably new ones) other than happy feets

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it ***** doctor mario

and it's mad easy to do, stop suckin spawn.

another cool thing that's even more useless is:
on yoshi's story
double jump from the edge
waveland backwards off the side platform
bair
double jump
wall jump
side B back to the ledge

 

[AvengerAngel]

also what good falco combo videos are there? (preferably new ones) other than happy feets

Its The Palm Trees!!! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQyawK5nZx4


It's the most recent I could think of. I know there are more recent ones, but this is one of the best vids I've ever seen (together with Shades of Falco, Happy Feet 3, Forward's C.O.C.K. etc.)

Moar recent vids:

In Falco we trust - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkm6c5rt67o

You are my **** - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3WlEEsKXgk

Combo Video by Charlon and Baxon Enjoy!! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jHmcxsuUp8 (Pretty much a Falco combo vid)

No escape - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKAIupe4PG4 (I dunno, it looks kinda lame to me, but you asked for more recent vids, not for the best ones)


Duh, we need some PeePee/Shiz/Mango combo vid :x



MOGWAI WHERE U AT x(

Yay, I managed to find 2 visual examples of what I mean!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYm3GsMsfiI @ 00.49 = Chops using the standard immediate double jump (same height of the DJDL), except there's a shine in between, but it doesn't really matter. Strong Dair at the peak of the DJ and fastfall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwOPTOlrs0 @ 2.09 = BS using the full jump and pretty much at the peak of the first jump, he jumps in mid-air and comes down with a strong Dair [edit: and btw I'm pretty sure that the Dair doesn't connect. Marf might have the time to jump out or hit you with an Uair/counter/whatever]

Honestly they both look kinda "fake". I think Marf could have the time to pull out a Fair before the Utilt. I went through the Shiz vs. Falcomist matches on FD again and Shiz has never tried to pull that thing off at low %s. So either he thinks there are better ways to combo Marf or he knows there are some risks involved, like getting Fair'd and comboed to death, dunno.
I think it makes more sense now :D

So yeah, I'll eventually switch to shine > bair or uair > bair or something like that, if Dair > utilt is so risky.
Maybe a CC > shine/smash could work if Falco is at low % as well, dunno

 

[SmashMac]

Wow, that means a lot SmashMac. <3

We'll continue our old veteran speak elsewhere (pms/something lol).


So... anyways...

Can anybody do Falco's bair on edge to recovering on FD? I can't do it consistently.

Alright. I use the analog-stick to do the jump and the c-stick for bair. Probably the easiest way to do it in my opinion.

If you're referring to falling off the ledge and then bairing, I use the analog-stick to do that as well. Analog-stick off the stage, bair, then jump and either wall-jump or up+b.

 

[ArcNatural]

It's good in like 1/10 situations vs Fox. Yes, it does usually suck though.

I use the A button btw.


Why is it when I jump early it feels like I accelerate faster and can't jump again for a longer period of time? It happens when I bair with Sheik as well (on edge of any stage).

....Summary:
1) Get on ledge of FD
2) Bair
3) Input jump button earlier than possible
4) Try to jump out of bair at actual time and end up not jumping
5) Die
6) Why?

I'll just add to what Mogwai said that it's much more worth it to recognize when you can jump out. It's the same with dropzone with Falcon. At first I used to mash jump after dropzone and i often would go back and forth between recovering and dieing. But one day I just really paid attention to WHEN I could jump out after the knee and now I can easily recover (usually on the stage) most of the time.

 

[SPAWN]

Yeah, I was testing out some things on Fourside and it's really noticeable where you can jump out. Timing things is too good.

 

[Mogwai]

MOGWAI WHERE U AT x(

I still don't understand what you want from me...

those are both combos that started at 0 with shine, which I don't think leads to anything guaranteed after the dair cause it doesn't send him down far enough. in the BS one, you also happen to have it starting after Ken shorthopped, which adds extra height and makes it especially unlikely that it's not a "real" combo. a good take away from it though is that it still more or less is working on good players, so why do you care what practice mode has to say on the matter? Marth has ****ing terrible options for covering the area beneath him, I mention that in the matchup thread and it's why stuff that might not be an actual combo would still work on him.

but yea, if you hit with an aerial first and then shine, you should be able to link an immediate double jump strong dair into a shine.

 

[FoxLisk]

another cool thing that's even more useless is:
on yoshi's story
double jump from the edge
waveland backwards off the side platform
bair
double jump
wall jump
side B back to the ledge

oh god this sounds so ****

im gonna practice this and then do it every time i kill someone on yoshi's story

then im gonna pull down my shades real slow like while i look into the camera

 

[X1-12]

oh god this sounds so ****

im gonna practice this and then do it every time i kill someone on yoshi's story

then im gonna pull down my shades real slow like while i look into the camera

it looks even cooler if you WD back into it rather than just drop off

- and you look like Zhu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7DHr7C_U8A#t=6m01s

 

[AvengerAngel]

@ Mogwai

That was EXACTLY what I was asking for, thanks :x

 

[Turazrok]

How do I ledgehop double laser away from the stage;.....;

 

[X1-12]

How do I ledgehop double laser away from the stage;.....;

well its preference how you do it but most people find it easier if you drop off the ledge by pressing away, then if you press jump and B it will register as a reverse laser and after you have pressed B once then DI back onto the stage

 

[FoxLisk]

well its preference how you do it but most people find it easier if you drop off the ledge by pressing away, then if you press jump and B it will register as a reverse laser and after you have pressed B once then DI back onto the stage

i dont think you can do it this way to get low LHDL. if you're trying to do that, you're gonna have to go all out: drop, jump, hold away, laser, DI in to the stage.

 

[X1-12]

i dont think you can do it this way to get low LHDL. if you're trying to do that, you're gonna have to go all out: drop, jump, hold away, laser, DI in to the stage.

I personally do this:

down
in (hold a bit)
away
B
start holding in and press B again

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Hey guys, got some matches recorded day before yesterday vs falco and falcon. i'm really bad at the falco ditto MU, but i'm really comfortable with falcon. maybe throw some advice, anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BFA4FA7270C841EF

that's the playlist, there's a buncha matches there, just find me :D

Thanks guys.

 

[FoxLisk]

i feel like when you're concentrating you play pretty well vs falcon but then you just do dumb stuff and let him get in on you. also use more SHL against cfal. he's pretty fast, but not so fast that his FH aerials aren't predictable and easy to react to. the IDJL should mostly be used to frustrate him or get him off platforms; SHL generally shuts his actual options down well enough.

On falco dittos:

a few preliminaries:
1) laser towards your opponent!
2) learn to shine bair out of shield. all your shines OoS were on the ground. sometimes it's better to do them in the air so you can then bair.

my thoughts on the matchup:

if you have laser control, you should be trying to land a shine. if you dont you should be trying to get laser control.
you should never do anything that your opponent can shine. This includes nairs and bairs at low %, aerials on shields that aren't very tightly spaced, and smash attacks. go watch Dr. PP vs. Lambchops. Dr. PP lost those matches because every game he would throw a slightly unsafe move on chops' shield, chops would shine OoS and get a sick combo off perfectly every time.

your combos are pretty good and you tend to be good about finishing well (i.e. with a smash or strong hit rather than letting them peter out). your spacing is inconsistent but sometimes very good (same as vs falcon. i think you jus tneed to focus more). but basically the whole matchup is about landing a shine and then combo ******. your other moves are good for stopping your opponent from hitting you and it never hurts to add on %, but all your play should be focused around trying to get in a shine and combo from it until you can kill or edgeguard.

 

[X1-12]

2) learn to shine bair out of shield. all your shines OoS were on the ground. sometimes it's better to do them in the air so you can then bair.

.

you should probably only really do this at high % below that try to learn to do shine OoS -> waveshine -> SHFFL dair or FJ dair or something whihc you can combo from

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i feel like when you're concentrating you play pretty well vs falcon but then you just do dumb stuff and let him get in on you. also use more SHL against cfal. he's pretty fast, but not so fast that his FH aerials aren't predictable and easy to react to. the IDJL should mostly be used to frustrate him or get him off platforms; SHL generally shuts his actual options down well enough.

What kind of things do i do to let him get in? like not lasering when i should be / improper spacing? It'd be easier to get if i could get an example Also good note on the lasers, I always thought the concept would just be like 70% SHL, then randomly throw in the DJL incase he jumps. but yeah i completely get your reasoning.

your combos are pretty good and you tend to be good about finishing well (i.e. with a smash or strong hit rather than letting them peter out). your spacing is inconsistent but sometimes very good (same as vs falcon. i think you jus tneed to focus more). but basically the whole matchup is about landing a shine and then combo ******. your other moves are good for stopping your opponent from hitting you and it never hurts to add on %, but all your play should be focused around trying to get in a shine and combo from it until you can kill or edgeguard.

How do you generally 'stop your opponent from hitting you'? you mean like how the nair is good for outprioritizing a predicted falcon nair or something?

Besides that thanks as alawyas =D I'll keep updating regularly


also i won my first tourny yesterday =D too bad the vegas scene sucks :embarrass

 

[FoxLisk]

uh i watched one of the fox matches and you were down 2 stocks, started to bring it back, and then waveshined around and threw an aerial at nothing and he just jumped in and kneed you, for an example. it sort of boils down to not lasering/improper spacing, but it seems more like you just stopped focusing on what your opponent was doing at all every now and then. i saw him just jump at you with knees and land them which really shouldn't happen because you have lasers and utilts and bairs and things. knees should end combos, not start them. if you dont know what im talking about i can go find specific examples tomorrow when i'm more awake.

and my point wasnt that aerials will stop your opponent from hitting you entirely, i mean that they're more used for zoning than anything. im exaggerating things to get across the point that in falco dittos, the shine is the most important thing to think about.

X1-12: yeah i figured he would understand that. there was a point in a falco ditto where Trahh's opponent was at like 170% and he was shining oos on the ground and not getting a killing blow in, that's the kind of time when shine bair OoS is the best option.

edit: OH GOD GRAMMAR

 

[X1-12]

oh god this sounds so ****

im gonna practice this and then do it every time i kill someone on yoshi's story

then im gonna pull down my shades real slow like while i look into the camera

if you know how high falcos' double jump and up+B take shim, then you can just press jump when you reach that distance below the stage, and you can definitely jump again, if you can't its cause you messed up and baired too late




EDIT: Dr. PP.. I was watching vids of you the other day and between stocks you were dashdancing like you have action replay or something... do you actually just sit there practising dashdancing? I can't do it for more than like a couple of minutes and I still don't seem to do it any faster at the end...

 

[SPAWN]

Earlier we were on the Marth discussion... why the **** did this work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pGFyY0wGI8#t=3m50s


There's two ****ing beast *** combos... just watch til the end its like 30 seconds. DrPP, you should check it out; it's cool stuff.

 

[JPOBS]

swiftbass tried to jump instead of doing anything not named jump.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Earlier we were on the Marth discussion... why the **** did this work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pGFyY0wGI8#t=3m50s


There's two ****ing beast *** combos... just watch til the end its like 30 seconds. DrPP, you should check it out; it's cool stuff.

Lol I have no idea why he side B'd instead of jumped, but that was pretty cool.

X1-12: I don't practice dash dancing, I just wanted to see how fast I could go and....that happened lol.

 

[JPOBS]

hmm....i had to watch it like 10 times, i guess he di try to side b, i cant really tell tho, looks like he tried to jump and got caught, makes it hard to tell with the bubble thingy

 

[SPAWN]

Lol I have no idea why he side B'd instead of jumped, but that was pretty cool.

X1-12: I don't practice dash dancing, I just wanted to see how fast I could go and....that happened lol.

He probably was trying to swipe the upb before it got to him and that the jump wouldn't be quick enough /allow him to move quickly away far enough.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well I think his DI might have been good enough to let him get away with his jump, but yeah I'm not totally sure what all he did lol.