Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[Browny]

yesterday i was randomly playing against cpus and i kept on accidentally using dsmash instead of fsmash. it hit like EVERY TIME. even at low % a dsmash hit, the enemy would run straight back into range and get double dsmashed. I was thinking 'wow, this is where its at' considering fsmash rarely ever hits lvl 9 cpu lol

 

[phi1ny3]

Yea, they get out of it like 99% of the time, but it still sends em away. Its a good GTFO move to reset your position. Lucario has the most ****** charging animation though. =p

MK's everything da bess. Except for Fsmash. :V

I would argue even fsmash is really good, although his downB (when the infinite cape is banned) and jab leave much to be desired. fsmash has virtually no end lag, so even though it's got a relatively long windup, he can shield/dodge/punish nearly everything that is immediately done oos from the opponent. one of my personal favorites is fsmash -> SL lol. Metaknight is indeed da bess

@ Browny: I use uthrow -> read AD -> dsmash get @ me

 

[phi1ny3]

double post:
what do you guys think of these pics for the zoning thread? They'll have highlighted "zones" in them as well, and for now I'm going to discuss MK only (other chars maybe later), and there might be more pictures to come, but I want to know if these are clear enough to use:

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

What I think would help for DSmash is... If we got data on Lucario's HURTbubbles when he uses it. Also how much the HITbubbles of DSmash overlap it.

Since he ducks his head down obviously his hurtboxes is smaller.

If we found out this info I think we may find better uses for it. Who knows...

What if like half of his body or something ridiculous was invincible? That's what I think would be useful to know in the very least...

 

[RT]

Easy to test...get someone above Lucario and throw down an item while he dsmashes. But in all honesty, the hurtboxes are probably just a modified crouch position.

 

[phi1ny3]

What I think would help for DSmash is... If we got data on Lucario's HURTbubbles when he uses it. Also how much the HITbubbles of DSmash overlap it.

Since he ducks his head down obviously his hurtboxes is smaller.

If we found out this info I think we may find better uses for it. Who knows...

What if like half of his body or something ridiculous was invincible? That's what I think would be useful to know in the very least...

According to OSA/PSA, I can tell you that this move definitely doesn't have invincibility frames lol. I think the main benefit for this move is that a lot of characters at times will breach fsmash or his other traditional front-end pokes and get to the other side, so occasionally dsmash is a meh mixup move to punish that (biggest example that pops up in my head, ledge -> getup roll)

That and its decently fast (it comes out at about 19 frames and its hitbox isn't stupidly situational to hit with like usmash's).

Although I found an interesting yet too-situational-to-be-useful application for usmash. I can't tell you how much I hate this move, despite the times I do read w/ it.

 

[D Who?]

That and its decently fast (it comes out at about 19 frames and its hitbox isn't stupidly situational to hit with like usmash's).

Although I found an interesting yet too-situational-to-be-useful application for usmash. I can't tell you how much I hate this move, despite the times I do read w/ it.

I agree that Lucarios up smash is a pretty bad move, But I have noticed if you slide into the upsmash it's great for mixups when the other player is above you. Buffered it comes out faster and has potential to kill. But I have only been trying that out on my crews players. I have yet to go and test on better players. If you could, maybe look into that for me a little?

It makes his usmash a little more usable

 

[D Who?]

Oh and how many lulu mains are in cfl to sfl? The swampnigas are having a tourny and I wanna bring more lucarios to the tourny. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287490

 

[Kitamerby]

Usmash isn't a terrible move, but it's somewhat situational, and even in those situations there are occasionally better options. For example, you can easily use it on someone who's shielding on a platform to push them off, beat out an idiot using a stall-and-fall or any form of Dair, a long-range airdodge punish that walking wouldn't get you to, etc.

 

[D Who?]

It's a great move when you're playing Falco.. It's laggy hitbox wrecks any phantasim back to the stage unless they have perfect timing and time the invuln frames. But it's to situational, thats the problem and all I'm saying is that when mixing it up, sliding into it is a decent option. Especially since most people who play against lucario know that we don't often use out usmash, throwing it out like that is a complete surprize.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah it definitely has its uses, but I see so many "misuse" it.

It is a good thing against phantasm at times (being a decently fast smash def. helps), it works well w/ a read, but it's otherwise got some really bad properties that prevent it from being as good as a typical usmash.

lol I'll sometimes do that "Spire Combo" (SoCal knows what I'm talking about) and do SH fair -> FF down -> hyphen usmash.

oh yeah, and if the MK is high enough, you can punch through tornado w/ this move (but you also have to hit his hurtbox, which is why this isn't a reliable tool against it).

 

[D Who?]

another **** move is double team

 

[Sunnysunny]

I know im a lucario noob, but I actually find Usmash amazing.
The long linger hitbox can really catch people off gaurd. its not totally useless. Its good for punishing people trying to air dodge to the ground or stall you in the air.

Double team....well I hardly ever use that thing. I think it can be good to punish super laggy attacks, but otherwise the lack of "counter stun" makes it suck. ._. I only use it if your able to read your opponent like a children book.

 

[phi1ny3]

^Pretty much

or when people do lol smashes when you're on the ledge, not many people use grab as a punishment when you're as limited as you are once on the ledge, mostly because there's usually little risk with the great reward a smash can do to cover your options. However, this gets old pretty fast and they'll just resort to laughing at your DT and killing you.

Although DT also has its veeeery rare situational uses, but DT and usmash are pretty lol. Usmash's use seems to get waaaaay better the more the opponent is unfamiliar w/ Lucario imo.

 

[culexus・wau]

wish people could grab us out of DT.

I get annoyed when people grab my DT [and of course whiff] and then get a free whatever the want on me :<

 

[D Who?]

So if I could change one thing about Lucario, I think I'd Extend his grab range or put a hitbox on his recovery. Both could be better

 

[Kitamerby]

tbh I don't think the lack of a hitbox on his recovery is THAT big of an issue. The grab range or dash speed however...

 

[D. Disciple]

^ this .

 

[culexus・wau]

our dash speed is fine.

where dat walk speed at =(

agreed on grab range though

we could have better options in the limbo range between jab and fsmash though.

tilts are fine buttttttttttttttt vs like mk and snake they won't cut it most of the time.

 

[Kitamerby]

our dash speed is fine.

where dat walk speed at =(

agreed on grab range though

we could have better options in the limbo range between jab and fsmash though.

tilts are fine buttttttttttttttt vs like mk and snake they won't cut it most of the time.

Our dash speed is terribaaaaaaad. Marth WALKS faster than us!

 

[culexus・wau]

eh

w.e.

both are movements are slow :<

 

[D Who?]

Lol, Lucario is a boss. The slow walk is a drematic effect so all of the cast can see just how ****ing awesome he is lmao. And Why don't we have an active tourny results thread for lucario? I think it'd be nice to see what lucos are doing in matters of tourny placement

 

[D. Disciple]

I thought we did.

 

[D Who?]

I think we should have one again.. I've been placing really well lately (top 10) in every tourny I go to.

 

[culexus・wau]

if you don't see one start one.

take initiative.

 

[D Who?]

I want too.. Im just not sure how to go about it. Like I know that I would want it in the order of -
1)What state
2)Your place out of X players
3)Tournment brackets
4)Honorable mentions (so other good players can get credit)
5)The TO
(6)Videos if they have of matches

That way when/if we ever need to look back we have all of this information. The TO will allow for the panel if they need it and if the Luco is good enought it can be used for PRs. The bracket shows who beat who and such.

 

[RT]

It should just consist of the following:

-Tournament name and location of tournament
-Date
-Placing out of how many people

That's all you need. That's all that is important.

 

[D Who?]

It should just consist of the following:

-Tournament name and location of tournament
-Date
-Placing out of how many people

That's all you need. That's all that is important.

The thread would be for all the info about the tourny. It could help someone in the long run. But thats probably all I'd ask for. But I'd want the brackets uploaded to so we can see what the competetion is.

 

[RT]

You shouldn't clutter it with any more info than what is needed. Look at other character boards' results threads...most of them use the formal I suggested. Keep it simple. You can always link to the specific tournament's results thread or AiB page if you feel there is a need.

 

[D Who?]

You shouldn't clutter it with any more info than what is needed. Look at other character boards' results threads...most of them use the formal I suggested. Keep it simple. You can always link to the specific tournament's results thread or AiB page if you feel there is a need.

You sir, are ****ing smart lmao. I wonder why I never thought of linking them. Alright thats what I'll do. Thank you

 

[phi1ny3]

every move needs like -2 - .1(x) frames off the given startup on all attacks (jab = 4, fsmash =18 or something, etc.) , that would make my day rofl. That and maybe grab range.

That or like ending animation canceling on SH AS after landing. That'd make his approach/camp game so cool. idk why but I don't mind recovery all that much, It's far better imo than when I play sheik and you get gimped a looooot lol (plus she's so light and the fall speed doesn't help her w/ momentum canceling all that much rofl, if anything it ruins her ability to hold onto more options as she falls pretty fast and has a meh aerial speed).

@ D Who: go for it.

 

[D Who?]

Lol, that would make Lucario moregod than MK

 

[D. Disciple]

Yo did you guys know that bair auto-cancels after a fair, but not by itself?

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah so D Who brought up an interesting mechanic that I think people might want to hop onto, might make Lucario even better on Luigi's Mansion (not that it matters to me, that stage is NEVER going to be allowed in my region). College is killing me though.

Does anyone want to take it on? Someone preferably w/ frame advance would be good, although you can still definitely do it manually (just a little harder to confirm).

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

What are Lucario's worst stages? I can never think of where to CP this guy to....it drives me nuts.

Flat = good for lucario, platforms = good for lucario, and wide = good for lucario. So the only good stages would be...small?

Keep in mind, Brinstar is out of the question since it is bad for Pikachu.

 

[RT]

Brinstar isn't even that bad for Lucario anyways, lol. In summary, pick MK.

 

[culexus・wau]

Low ceiling.

Give Halberd a shot, its the lowest ceiling thats not brinstar ircc.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But wouldn't the flatness of the stage (not ship) and the length of it help you guys survive unless you are getting hit from the edge? Or should I be trying to kill up?

 

[culexus・wau]

I die pretty early by the sides on halberd =\ its not really TOO bad for lucario but its definitely not good.

Its no strong CP. but it gives pika an edge [Upsmash and Thunder can kill earlier, Luc doesn't really commonly kill upwards either]

>.>

thinking more about it RC is an option too, [we higher chance we might switch to CP characters though].

Lower ceiling.

pikachu has ******* good mobility there.

etc.

 

[Steam]

yeah there really aren't many stages that Lucario is just flat out horrible on...