Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[UltimateWario]

Stone edge misses, giving me a chance to switch into the water type and scald you. Your move.

>implying that 80 accuracy is bad

>implying Stone Edger was rock/ground-type

>implying Scald guarantees burn

 

[Arcadenik]

If anything let's just have Blaziken.

Yes... yes... let's have the new Pokemon Trainer from the hypothetical Ruby/Sapphire remakes... May as the default trainer with Brendan as the alternate costume... complete with Mudkip because Sakurai heard we like Mudkip.... and Blaziken because it is the best fried chicken... and Grovyle just because...!

 

[IsmaR]

I abhor the concept of accuracy. Stone/Focus Miss have nothing on how many times I've missed with Hammer Arm (90% accuracy), yet every time I see someone use Sheer Cold/Fissure, it always hits. Multiple times.

 

[The Nerd]

You underestimate Charizard. A lot.

You're probably right. Realistically I do not see Pokemon getting 6+ representatives, so if I were to hazard a guess at the five it would get, Charizard would certainly be present. That being said, He, Lucario, Mewtwo, and a few other pokemon are all fairly realistic, after all. I just don't know how realistic Blaziken is by comparison: I know he's really popular in some circles, and really hated in others, so it's hard to get a good judge of what the average opinion is. Even if I could, I have NO idea what Sakurai wants in a pokerep, so...

 

[UltimateWario]

Accuracy is a ****.

 

[josh bones]

>implying that 80 accuracy is bad

>implying Stone Edger was rock/ground-type

>implying Scald guarantees burn

>Bad compared to rock slide.
>Stone edger was rock.
>OHKO don't need burn.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Speaking of constructing a competitive team, I need help with that.

I have the Pokémon I want (I think) and I just need one last member. Plus I'm not sure how careful I need to be with my training. Right now I have a Larvitar, Skarmory, Riolu, Deino, (all currently level 1) and I don't really remember the other one. But I know I'm missing one in general. All have the preferred nature and Pokerus. I have already used Super Training on them. Can I just take them to the Elite 4 and use EXP Share on them now? Or do I have to fight specific Pokémon still to get the max stats?

Such a painstaking process... I doubt I would ever fight with my team. I would just want to have one.

As far as roles, I was thinking Lucario and Tyranitar as sweepers, Hydreigon as a tank, Skarmory as my wall...and then I wanted at least one other wall and then something else.

Any suggestions? I'm a total noob at this. (I know this is off topic...)

As far as Smash goes, Mewtwo is in my opinion the only one with a shot.

 

[IsmaR]

You can indeed just fight the E4 with the EXP Share turned on. Though I would suggest using either the Battle Chateau (with Writs of Challenge/Invitation, and after reaching Grand Duke status) or the 3-Star Restaurant in Lumiose City (you can do Rotation Battles so that you have 1 strong Pokemon in front, 2 weak Pokemon in the back. They get EXP much faster). To answer your question, if the Pokemon are maxed out in Super Training, they need no additional EV training.

I can understand using a team consisting of mostly your favorites, but your team has a sever weakness to Fighting. I'd suggest a Ghost type to help with this.

Lucario is most definitely suited towards being a sweeper/revenge killer, and Skarmory towards being a wall, so those work just fine. Tyranitar isn't going to sweep much without a Dragon Dance boost (I'm assuming you don't have it, as it is an egg move), though it can scare off and tank hits against Special attackers. Hydreigon unfortunately is very defensively-challenged, especially now with the 4x weakness to Fairy type. You're better off either focusing on offense or just not using it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just responding to an earlier Tabuu post

Spoiler

If I'm not too late I'd like to throw a chip in for reasonings behind/against Tabuu as well.

Ultimately, my first reaction was a sort of gut instinct; I did not like the idea. Then I tried to reason with myself; why can't Tabuu be in the new smash as a playable character? Eventually, it comes down to a dirty word in the smash community; size. Commonly used as an argument for why some other notable character(s?) can't be in, it's very easy to imagine a shrinked down version of Tabuu. My issue with this is that while size in the Smash universe is scaled from the game's original universes (Olimar, Mario Vs Sonic, etc) to look more natural and believable, on the whole characters that have been added remained the same size, more or less. I would argue that while size from Smash to other franchises is *highly* variable, the size from games within the franchise are not. Master Hand has always been more or less the same size. Returning stages have also been more or less allows to remain the same. There are some discrepancies, certainly, but on the whole the games are consistent. I cannot imagine that suddenly changing, because it feels somehow wrong, like the consistency within the universe that had remained somewhat constant, had suddenly fallen apart.

I agree with this, but you might want to check again, not only is Tabuu not that big, but he's shown the ability to re size himself at will in battle.

The argument that Smash Bros deserves it's own representative seems odd to me in general. Why? Each character is meant to represent a franchise, or a part of a franchise, that Nintendo holds dear to each other, and Smash is the crossover game that they can coexist in.

I disagree. Smash has not just become a crossover franchise. But, it's own franchise with it's own original characters and settings. You could of course argue that as long as they are in it that there is no need to make them playable. But, you can still argue that with a unique character like Tabuu and the originality of Smash itself that a Smash Original character might become something Sakurai wants to do this time.

The series itself is insanely popular but it seems too meta and self-acknowledging for Nintendo to pull off. Don't get me wrong; I'm not against the idea itself, I just don't think they're quite clever or daring enough to follow through with it.

Understandable

Another nail in the coffin is that Sakurai tends to be very humble with his own work; it's been noted that he didn't want to include more Kirby characters in Melee for fear of being called arrogant. In Brawl he did more or less on popular demand, but I do not think his opinion has dramatically varied otherwise.

Once again I disagree. Sakurai has clearly shown that he can get past his fear of being seen as arrogant as he added two Kirby characters at once, gave Kid Icarus a lot of spotlight in Brawl and made it the 8th main franchise over Yoshi. I do agree modesty would hurt his chances somewhat, but in no way, how you say: "Puts a nail in the coffin".

With this logic I cannot imagine him adding another one of his characters, specifically generated for the last game

What does that mean? What makes you think he was made specifically for Brawl and no future installments. Every boss in Smash returned in the next installment

There is ONE thing I could see him as, if you are determined to see him playable. Perhaps if the wire frames/polygons/etc etc were made playable this time around

Well considering Tabuu is far more important then him and they are simply generic, Smash Attack only enemies, I feel it should be the other way around.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You can indeed just fight the E4 with the EXP Share turned on. Though I would suggest using either the Battle Chateau (with Writs of Challenge/Invitation, and after reaching Grand Duke status) or the 3-Star Restaurant in Lumiose City (you can do Rotation Battles so that you have 1 strong Pokemon in front, 2 weak Pokemon in the back. They get EXP much faster).

I can understand using a team consisting of mostly your favorites, but your team has a sever weakness to Fighting. I'd suggest a Ghost type to help with this.

Lucario is most definitely suited towards being a sweeper/revenge killer, and Skarmory towards being a wall, so those work just fine. Tyranitar isn't going to sweep much without a Dragon Dance boost (I'm assuming you don't have it, as it is an egg move), though it can scare off and tank hits against Special attackers. Hydreigon unfortunately is very defensively-challenged, especially now with the 4x weakness to Fairy type. You're better off either focusing on offense or just not using it.

Alright thanks! Are there any Ghost Types you recommend? Or any recommendations to replace any of them?

I do like most of my picks. Hydreigon does have that weakness, but I plan on giving him Draco Meteor, Fire Blast...granted he'll still have the weakness, he'll still be a force to be reckoned with if my opponent doesn't have a Fairy Type.

Or if I can even manage to give one of my Pokémon a move that is effective against Fairy even. One thing I'd like to do is cover most if not all types with at least one attack.

Again, any input is definitely helpful.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I agree with the sentiment that we will have more than four newcomers. I cannot fathom there being less than 10, and I believe any roster prediction that claims lower than this is crazy, regardless of their reasoning. There would be nothing worse for the game than hearing it had so few new characters to offer in terms of marketing. I believe part of the reason we learned almost every new character in Brawl was because more new characters generates more hype. While I don't think we'll see most of the new characters before launch I do think we'll see more than four.

Brawl had a total of 18 Newcomers. So the concept of only 10 or less is not something I find plausible.

 

[IsmaR]

Alright thanks! Are there any Ghost Types you recommend? Or any recommendations to replace any of them?

It's really up to you. Use whichever is your favorite. Gengar works, as it resists both Fighting and Ground type moves, and has good synergy with Tyranitar.

I do like most of my picks. Hydreigon does have that weakness, but I plan on giving him Draco Meteor, Fire Blast...granted he'll still have the weakness, he'll still be a force to be reckoned with if my opponent doesn't have a Fairy Type.

Or Fighting, Ice, Bug, or Dragon. Gotta be smart with how you use it.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's really up to you. Use whichever is your favorite. Gengar works, as it resists both Fighting and Ground type moves, and has good synergy with Tyranitar.



Or Fighting, Ice, Bug, or Dragon. Gotta be smart with how you use it.

Right. I'll have to figure out the best moveset. On the flip side of the coin, it's attack is ridiculous, so if I can nail one of those with the right attack, I can do a lot of damage. Of course if I don't do enough, I could end up in serious trouble.

I mean, I know that if I give him Fire Blast, depending on the Pokémon in question, I can take out Bug or Ice. Fighting and Fairy are honestly probably my biggest threats to him.

 

[IsmaR]

That's the good thing about a team. You have potentially 5 other answers for where one falls short.

 

[RankoChan]

Brawl had a total of 18 Newcomers. So the concept of only 10 or less is not something I find plausible.

I thought Brawl only added 14 newcomers (15 counting ZSS).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I thought Brawl only added 14 newcomers (15 counting ZSS).

Nope 18. Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon and Toon Link are Newcomers.

 

[RankoChan]

Nope 18. Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon and Toon Link are Newcomers.

My bad, I miscounted. I consider Pokemon Trainer one entity (Like Popo & Nana, Olimar & Pikmin, Rosalina & Luma, etc.) so 16 counting ZSS.

 

[FalKoopa]

Lots of off-topic posts I see. On the topic of newcomers, I expect 12-13 newcomers at most, almost the same as the jump from Smash 64 to Melee.

 

[IsmaR]

I'd honestly be surprised if we got double-digit newcomers AND the majority of veterans returning.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

My bad, I miscounted. I consider Pokemon Trainer one entity (Like Pop & Nana, Olimar & Pikmin, Rosalina & Luma, etc.) so 16 counting ZSS.

Yeah, if they are actually playable with their own move set and haven't been playable before then they are a newcomer. The only character that is actually playable, but doesn't count as a character is Nana. But, that's because she does not have her own move set and simply a pallet swap I guess.

Pikmin and Luma are simply tools. Nana could be considered one too.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I'd honestly be surprised if we got double-digit newcomers AND the majority of veterans returning.

Sigh. I get into the low expectations phase a lot, myself.

I'd love to have every veteran return (including Dr. Mario, Young Link, Roy, and Pichu) and to have around 15 newcomers, but...

----

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'd honestly be surprised if we got double-digit newcomers AND the majority of veterans returning.

Why?

 

[RankoChan]

Why?

It's reasonable to believe that game will be rushed to help bolster the Wii U's sales with the current situation Nintendo is in. It doesn't help that the game was announced before development even started as well.

Plus development is being split between two versions of the game, when before all the time and resources were being poured into one.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It's reasonable to believe that game will be rushed to help bolster the Wii U's sales with the current situation Nintendo is in. It doesn't help that the game was announced before development even started as well.

I don't think Brawl Veterans are going to be cut nor do I think there will be 10 or less.

 

[FalKoopa]

It's reasonable to believe that game will be rushed to help bolster the Wii U's sales with the current situation Nintendo is in. It doesn't help that the game was announced before development even started as well.

Plus development is being split between two versions of the game, when before all the time and resources were being poured into one.

Well, Sakurai does have a larger and better development team this time from Namco, compared to the inexperienced Game Arts which developed Brawl.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Does anybody know how a Smash Prediction Video can get a lot of views and noticed? (Besides just being a good video.)

 

[PSIguy89]

honestly id be happy enough with 10 newcomers total, im worried we wont be getting many...

 

[The Nerd]

Responding to the points about Tabuu: I'm not clever enough to format multiple quotes the same way Saturn did, so I'll just put my points in bold.

Spoiler

Just responding to an earlier Tabuu post

I agree with this, but you might want to check again, not only is Tabuu not that big, but he's shown the ability to re size himself at will in battle.
I guess I should be clear; I cannot see him willingly remain at a reasonable size for no reason when in universe he could be much bigger. You of course make a valid point however.

I disagree. Smash has not just become a crossover franchise. But, it's own franchise with it's own original characters and settings. You could of course argue that as long as they are in it that there is no need to make them playable. But, you can still argue that with a unique character like Tabuu and the originality of Smash itself that a Smash Original character might become something Sakurai wants to do this time.
I guess this is dependent on whether or not you wish for Smash to have it's own representative in it's game. To me that seems too redundant, but I can understand your point of view.

Once again I disagree. Sakurai has clearly shown that he can get past his fear of being seen as arrogant as he added two Kirby characters at once, gave Kid Icarus a lot of spotlight in Brawl and made it the 8th main franchise over Yoshi. I do agree modesty would hurt his chances somewhat, but in no way, how you say: "Puts a nail in the coffin".
Perhaps I was dramatizing this a bit, but while he revived Kid Icarus in Brawl Kid Icarus is not an original IP he created. He wanted to revive Kid Icarus in Brawl and was successful. I don't think it's arrogance that makes Kid Icarus the 8th core franchise, but acknowledgement that Yoshi as his own franchise is in flux right now and furthermore Yoshi is more a part of Mario than anything else. Perhaps it is my limited perspective, but I feel as though he would consider adding Tabuu arrogant in a way that adding Meta Knight and Dedede are not, especially where they were highly requested characters.

What does that mean? What makes you think he was made specifically for Brawl and no future installments. Every boss in Smash returned in the next installment
Sorry I wasn't clear here. I would be surprised if he did not make a return as some sort of boss or trophy but I do not think he would get character status so easily.

Well considering Tabuu is far more important then him and they are simply generic, Smash Attack only enemies, I feel it should be the other way around.
I would argue Tabuu's important-ness to the series compared to the wire-frame/polygon enemies, which have been in every game. I don't think either will be playable, I simply sought a way to include Tabuu as playable without him being directly on the roster. A compromise, albeit one that likely makes no one happy.

I really don't think we'll see all veterans returning. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would be very surprised if a couple character were axed; this pains me because many of my favourites would be on this chopping block but objectively it just makes sense, especially given Sakurai already apologized at the fact that some characters would not be returning. (I cannot find a link to that article, so perhaps I dreamed it? I'm pretty sure on this point though.) I don't think 10 new characters is enough but I don't think a 50 character roster is likely either; logic dictates that at least a few characters will be vanishing. I have hope that a few characters could return as alternate costumes, but it is hard to say at this point.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Counting Zamus/Sheik/Red's Pokemon separately...

Starting at 12 with the first game, we got an additional 14 in Melee, for a total of 26 characters, 25 slots.

Brawl added 18, but we also lost 5, so we only got 13 more characters than Melee, 39 characters total, 35 slots and a random slot.

If we got 13 more newcomers (plus Mewtwo and Roy) for SSB4 without any loses, we'd get a nice 54 characters on a rounded 50 slot roster.

So technically speaking, we've only ever gotten 13-14 new slots with each game, with Brawl actually having less additions than Melee.

 

[FalKoopa]

Does anybody know how a Smash Prediction Video can get a lot of views and noticed? (Besides just being a good video.)

Advertise it in this thread, the Smash 4 General Thread, and the Miiverse Thread

Don't tell anyone I said that.
The Youtube speculation is honestly quite muddled to the the large number of videos coming out, making it hard to stand out of the crowd. Only guessing Sakurai correctly can help you.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Good afternoon all, hope you're all doing well. Was the topic for a while really competitive pokemon talk? I love you guys sometimes, too bad I missed it. Anyways, our topic is expected amount of newcomers? I just say keep it reasonable and keep it around 11-12 (Which includes Mewtwo's return)

 

[Gunla]

Advertise it in this thread, the Smash 4 General Thread, and the Miiverse Thread

Don't tell anyone I said that.
The Youtube speculation is honestly quite muddled to the the large number of videos coming out, making it hard to stand out of the crowd. Only guessing Sakurai correctly can help you.

Guessing Sakurai?

Good afternoon all, hope you're all doing well. Was the topic for a while really competitive pokemon talk? I love you guys sometimes, too bad I missed it. Anyways, our topic is expected amount of newcomers? I just say keep it reasonable and keep it around 11-12 (Which includes Mewtwo's return)

With Mewtwo I'm betting 12-13.

 

[josh bones]

Can we go back to discussing Seviper?

 

[FalKoopa]

Guessing Sakurai?

To stand out, you gotta do the impossible!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't think expecting 12-13 new characters is asking TOO much. That would be the least amount of characters added since the original. Granted, Melee added a bunch of clones, so that maybe shouldn't count? I don't know.

Anyway, I don't think a roster of 50 should be out of the question. There are plenty of characters to choose from, the team is bigger and better...I know Sakurai said they are building the characters from the ground up, but a lot of the animations of said characters are reused so far. So, I mean the character design itself is probably a part that takes a bit of time. But the movesets of most of the veterans are already made.

Consider the revamped veterans. I think if we're looking at newcomers, I think revamped veterans can be called "newcomers". Pit only got like 3 new moves, so I don't know about him, but Bowser is a whole new character. This could also include Ganondorf and Falco as well.


Not to mention that I think Sakurai came out and also said that he isn't going to let the 3DS or balancing stop him from adding the amount of character he wants. Or something like that. So he probably has an idea of who he wants to be a priority, and who he doesn't want. If he looks at this game the same as Brawl, then newcomers will probably get priority. However, only 2 characters were really cut that were sorely missed, being Mewtwo and Roy.

Basically, if we get cuts, they will be minimal, and I think Sakurai knows who people want. He is going to try and keep what he can, as best he can. So we shouldn't necessarily expect everyone to come back, but there's a chance of it.

 

[josh bones]

If we get any cut's snake is at the top of the list.

 

[Gunla]

To stand out, you gotta do the impossible!

Well, so far I guessed WFT and Villager. I'm a ways away from really guessing him fully.

If we get any cut's snake is at the top of the list.

...Can I ask why you think this?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well, so far I guessed WFT and Villager.

Wow, really? That's cool. So far I've only gotten Mega Man.

 

[RankoChan]

I'm expecting 8-10 newcomers if all the brawl veterans return (Plus Mewtwo/Roy) or 10-14 newcomers if cuts are made.

I'd love to be wrong though, it's just that in my experience lowering your expectations makes the the end result more enjoyable.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Having 50 would definitely be plausible if two are Mewtwo and Roy.